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Be Kind
Episode No. 22

Love is Kind. Kindness is an interesting idea and countercultural for most of us in how we are to live. What happens if someone takes advantage of my kindness? Does kindness mean I can never say something that will hurt someone’s feelings?

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Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes. Try to live this Jesus life. My name’s.

My name is Josh. Not Joshua boobies, as my script says,

Andrew: True. And we are this Jesus life

Josh: podcast. Uh, Andrew C. These are the things we would miss out on. If we recorded an intro in palladium each time as our editor. See where you would have missed that. I’m Joshua boobies. We did shoot change that and didn’t even notice it

Andrew: just before we started. I wanted you to have an anchor man moment.


Josh: well, don’t usually read it, but. I started in the intro. And then I saw Boothies on the screen and I was like, not real boobies, just the word movies. I was like, wait, what, what is, what is this? And I was like, Oh, he changed the story.

Andrew: I’m like crying as you were going through it. As you were starting to say it, you just see in your mind that you could just read it and you were trying to keep it together.

So we’re keeping this, we’re keeping all of this. It’s so

Josh: funny. The funny thing is. You tried to do this on a regular basis. Something’s changed. And I usually catch up beforehand, not when I’ve already started, but, uh, Andrew dude, I’m

Andrew: doing great, man. I’m feeling better after a good laugh, you know, I’ve had a, it’s a Thursday when we’re recording this.

Cause we’re trying to get ahead a little bit. We’re doing two episodes this week. Um, and man, I’ve had just like a quiet day. Getting a lot of stuff done without many meetings. So I’ve had no big laughs. So I needed that. Um, how are you doing that?

Josh: I’m doing well. I got a question for you though. You did you rather be in jail for a year or lose a year off your life?

Andrew: Oh my gosh. Um, okay. Clarifying question. Do I know that I lost a year off my life? Like, do I have to say, okay, now I have one last year or two? I just like not knowing live. No, like

Josh: right before you were supposed to die. Sorry a year before you’re supposed to die the day before you were notified you were dying tomorrow because you’ve just been knocked off your life

Andrew: because of the choice you made like years ago during this, would you rather?

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you can be in your eighties, you could be in your fifties if you die young. I don’t know, but whatever you’re supposed to die. You were notified a year and a day before. So you have 24 hours essentially to come to terms with the fact about today.

Andrew: I think I would actually, I’d still go with that.

I would rather have one year less in my life because then, you know, it’s just kinda like you at least have 24 hours notice you’re going to die. It’s true.

Josh: And you know, it’s coming eventually.

Andrew: Yeah,

Josh: yeah.

Andrew: Age. Like if you’re 75, you’re like. I know we’ve got a year less, but I’ve lived a full life. I’m pretty good.

You know,

Josh: you probably live your life in a better way to knowing that I going not have next year. So I got to like make the most of it now. And who wants to go to jail? Sounds miserable. I’ve always had this thought of like, Jesus, if I have to go to jail, I’m sorry. But for that time that I’m in prison, I’m not going to live by your commands for your life.

And I’m going to shake the first one. First person. I see.

Andrew: You’d be a, you’d be a Shanker. Huh?

Josh: Uh, you have to be, you gotta defend yourself.

Andrew: You do, you have to really create a reputation quick.

Josh: Yeah. I’ve watched enough prison movies that,

Andrew: you know, how it goes. Josh, would you rather, um, be in a crowded room and fart and have everybody laugh at you?

Um, loudly or be the only person laughing up noxious when someone else farted in that crowded.

Josh: Oh, that’s a good one. That’s a good one. I’d probably go first one crowded room. I fart everyone. Laughs at me rather than me laughing at everybody else. I’d rather be humiliated than be seen as the asshole.

Andrew: Yeah, because the scenario of you being the only person laughing is probably like. 90 year old grandma farts out in you’re the only one laughing, you know, everybody’s like, come on Josh.

Like, you know, she can’t help it and you

Josh: can’t play that off and be like, go grandma. Like, I think there’s a way to, I don’t know. I might go with the latter one. If that’s the situation, I might be able to play that one off.

Andrew: And I can’t either memory.

Josh: I sat down and it sounded like she sat on a mouse, like, come on.

Andrew: Mmm, Andrew you’re actually at grandpa’s funeral. It’s the problem?

Josh: It was grandpa.

Andrew: No, no, it’s grandma, but you’re at Greenblatt’s funeral.

Josh: No, I think it’d be funny if the dead guy fired it, uh, you’re like, ah, That’s true. How is nobody else here? That’s alright, Andrew, would you rather be forced to dance every time you heard music like full out dance and not just like a little wiggle, right?

Or be forced to sing a song or sing along to any song you heard? To like, gosh, full blown, like Celine Dion.

Andrew: I seriously, I would, uh, I would have to

Josh: go with the data. Why big Celine Dion. That’s like, so outside of my,

Andrew: but yeah, you’re normal. You do, you are a Dion fan for sure. I would go with the dance. Like both of those are terrible.

The dance, at least you can like, like be dancing real hard to just slide out of the room and then kind of pop back in when the song’s done with the scene, I probably would have to dance.

Josh: You’d have to dance to the style of the song too. So you just be a really good dancer. You got them all down. So you got some like country Western.


Andrew: Got my country jangle go in, got my disco. Got my, yeah, totally. And dance, you know. Yes. No. Why not? Why not? Oh man. We do a, we sing all the like goofy songs all the time around our house and something fun is that, um, Catherine has picked it up, so she’ll just sing nonsense songs all the time that she’s like making up.

And it’s pretty fun. It’s fun. Yeah. Don’t get me wrong. She’d sing stuff. Like, let it go from frozen all the time, but then sometimes she’ll just be putting her shoes on and be like shoes on my feet. You know? It’s pretty funny. It’s a good time.

Josh: That’s cute. That’s a good time. That’s cute. Yeah. We have a video of my niece.

Who’s now she just had a birthday. I think she’s like 23 ish, something like that. Uh, she’s younger than Nathan and Nathan’s like 25, 26. Uh, I’m sorry, if you’re listening to this Gabby, I should know how old you are. Um, But we have a video of her when she was like maybe three at best sitting on the toilet.

Cause uh, she had to go to the bathroom and my sister was filming her and she didn’t want my sister to stop filming her. So she’s filming around the toilet. Uh, and my sister’s like, this is weird. Like do something. In the video. So she started singing twinkle, twinkle little stars, and she’s all 20 goal.

Andrew: That’s so good. So

Josh: good. That is awesome. I should probably apologize for sharing that story. Gabby, if you’re listening, that’s probably worse. The fact, I don’t know how old you are.

I don’t know, the Gabby seems to own it. I think she likes,

Andrew: you know, and when you’re three, you can’t control any of that,

Josh: you know,

Andrew: your three year old, it’s all good.

Josh: Oh my gosh.

Andrew: Well, speaking of needing to apologize, like six times at the start at the episode, um, we’re talking about love being kind today,

Josh: uh, and

Andrew: love it’s go, Josh.

Why are we talking about this?

Josh: We’re talking about this, cause this is the next characteristic of love that Paul. That’s really described for us in first Corinthians 13. And if we’re going to be great at relationship with those around us, we have to be great at love. And this is how we do it. So last episode, if you haven’t had a chance to listen to it, go back.

Um, we talk about love being patient, um, and some practical steps on how do you actually live that out? And then this week we’re talking about love is kind of, yeah. And I think. I think a big thing with kind is there’s this misconception of the word kind that you are just super bubbly and nice. That’s what kind is.

Yeah, and I think we’ll get into some nuances of, or different definitions of what kind could be and how it can be defined, um, for the sake of others in our lives as we do relationship well. Um, but speaking of love is kind, um, we’re in the middle of a presidential election

Andrew: where,

Josh: uh, I think. And we’re a little over 30 days.

So I ran for a second, I think. Yeah. So we’re like 30, 32 days, 33 days. Um, and we just had a, the first debate of, I believe three, a couple of nights ago. Uh, And I would describe it as kindness. I think, I think

Andrew: both Trump

Josh: invited, um, were very kind to one another, uh, and supported each other. And I think issues,

Andrew: everybody watched, it just was talking to me about like, that was the nicest, kindest debate I’ve ever seen.

Like, how

Josh: am I gonna be able to choose between two guys that just are such nice kind people,

Andrew: two Teddy bears.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, I think at one point, uh, one candidate called the other candidates stupid, not directly, but in a roundabout way. Uh, and the S and the another candidate called told the other person to shut up.

Andrew: One said to Trump, I hadn’t said to Trump, you’re the worst president we’ve ever had straight up. Um, at one point. And Trump. Yeah, just made fun of him trimming one of his like son for having drug issue. Like all this stuff, man.

Josh: Yeah. There was nothing

Andrew: that was

Josh: off limits that is for sure. And no substance at all.

Uh, I don’t think any real question was asked and I don’t think any real answer was given. It was an absolute waste of time, but we all watched it anyways because that’s what you’re supposed to do. But you had some thoughts on, on the debate.

Andrew: Yeah, I did. Um, so, uh, I was thinking about it. I got to have a really cool conversation with a group of, uh, people I work with kind of, um, about the debate yesterday.

Cause the debate was the night before. Um, We’re filming two episodes this week, so we can get a little bit ahead. So I know if you’re listening to us, that’s probably like two or three weeks from now, but it just happened. You can think back a couple of weeks, but, um,

Josh: and there’s going to be another one here pretty soon.

So what we say now is probably gonna apply to that one as well.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Most likely, most likely now I was talking with, uh, with some people I work with and had really great discussion. Just kind of hearing like reactions. To, uh, to the debate. And, um, you know, as we were having that conversation, like the, the takeaways were things like, you know, Trump said some racist stuff.

Um, cause I did pick up some on some of that. Um, Trump was really mean to Biden. Biden really hates Trump. Like it’s super clear. And they were very unkind to each other whole time. And it felt like watching, like my takeaway was like, if I were in a conversation like that and I was being interrupted that much, and it was just that hateful, I just stopped that conversation.

Like we wouldn’t be friends, you know? Um, but, but overall I something cool. Happened. It felt like the Holy spirit kind of revealed something to me that I wanted to share with you. Um, and as, as we were having that discussion, I had this thought just hit, hit my mind of like, well, God set it up to be different than this.

And I immediately thought of, um, Samuel where it’s actually first Samuel eight. Cause I looked it up where, um, Where God, the Israelites back in the day are saying Samuel, who is like the prophet to Israel, kind of leading them towards God. In that time said, Samuel, give us a King. Like you’re getting rid of the old, your sons.

Aren’t walking in the way you walked. Like we need a leader. And we want to be like the other nations, give us a King and same milk gets mad at them. And he’s praying and talking to God and saying like, they want a King, like they don’t need a King. You’re their King. And God says, Samuel, they’re not turning their back on you.

They’re turning their back on me, give them a King, but tell them what it’s gonna, what it’s going to mean. You know? So, um, he says to the people, and I’m paraphrasing all this, he says basically, All right. People, if you want to King, here’s what it’s going to mean. It’s going to take your sons and daughters is going to send them to war.

It’s going to take your wealth. Um, and, and he’s going to use it for his means. He’s going to take a 10th of your grain, 10th of your animals. And, um, and he’s gonna kind of rule over you and he’s going to see it as, this is my destiny to rule over you. This is my. Not even destiny, my right as a King. And, um, basically, uh, he tells the people all of this and they still say, yeah, we will on a King.

We still want a King. Of course we do. We want to be like everybody else. And the reason I say all that, it kind of framed around this idea of a debate that, um, I think it still holds water. I think it’s still is true. Yeah. Like we live in the kingdom of God here and now, like we, Jesus tells us we live in the kingdom of heaven right now.

You know, like it’s here and, uh, and we need to believe that and behave like it’s true. Um, so all that to say, I think that that thing of like, you don’t need a King, you need to follow God. You need to obey God and live in a way that he wants us to live. I think that’s true. And I think we, a lot of people before us, but a lot of people right now would, would still say.

Give us a King, give us a president in our, you know, in our country and our normal give us president, um, Because we want that. We want to be like the other nations. We don’t want to be seen the same. Um, we definitely wouldn’t say as a nation, no, we don’t need a King. We just need God. You know, that’s not what we’d say, but yeah.

I just felt like God kind of revealed that to me of like, Hey, this it’s because it’s not working my perfect plant, you know, like it’s not going the way it should be going necessarily. So I dunno. That’s my, that’s my 2 cents around the debate stuff.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I think we put, I think we put a lot of faith in our elected officials, um, over our faith in God, himself.

So in all reality, say the candidate that you’re not voting for wins the election could bad come from that. Yeah, it’s definitely possible. Um, And con good come from it 100%, but does it change your position with God himself? And it does that change God’s authority and power inside. It’s really a piece of faith of like, even if my country goes to crap and everything falls apart because the leaders have just led poorly is God’s still in control.

Um, and where am I going to put my faith and yeah, you’re voting cause you’re trying to avoid something and you agree, align yourself more with, with one candidate over the other. I think we’re Christians get into trouble. I don’t know if we’ve talked about this before, but um, we take this idea of. Of covenant theology with Israel and God made a commitment, not with an individual, but with, with a nation.

And we take that idea and we continue to apply it to our nation. Um, and that covenant doesn’t exist anymore. That covenant was fulfilled through the death and resurrection of Jesus. Um, the new covenant. Is a covenant between God and the individual. Um, so everything changed. Um, and I think we still try to apply those old covenant theology to our nation will get where God’s nation, you know, the, the, the United States was built on Christian values, whether that’s true or not.

And you could read different historians are gonna tell you different things. Um, it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things like. God doesn’t look at at the United States is I’m going to bless them or curse them based on what they’re doing right now. That’s not the covenant anymore. They come coming it’s individual.

So it really has nothing to do with our nation at all. Or they, she can do whatever it wants to do and continue to live. And God’s going to curse and bless us. He sees fit, um, and not based off even our actions is Jesus told us, right. He’s going to send rain on both the right on the unrighteous. Um, I think we, we connect our poles.

Political agendas, parties, preferences with our religion. And I think they are too separately that you’re putting on an equal ground and they’re not equal. Like here’s my relationship with Jesus way, way up here. And here is my fact that I’m a citizen of the United States down here. They’re not, they’re not close to each other.

Um, yeah. And I think we get caught up in that.

Andrew: I totally. And we did the whole episode a while back. I should know the name of it, but I don’t have kind of like old covenant, new covenant, covenant I’m in broke a lot of that

Josh: down.

Andrew: Everything is new that’s right. Um, but. Yeah. I think the idea still holds water of like, you know, they’re not turning their back on on you person of God, they’re turning your back their back on me.

You know, I think that still holds Potter and like hold them with what Jesus said of like, Oh yeah. Whose names whose faces on that coin. Caesar’s okay. Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s give to God? What is God’s you know, like I think it carries weight.

Josh: Yeah. And that’s the other thing is I like, um, How do I put this?

Um, I think that’s the other piece of this is, um, you’re expecting here. Trump invited, who are, neither of them are, are. Well, Trump’s going to tell you he’s a believer, but whether it is or not that’s between him and God, I guess, but I would argue from his actions, I don’t see fruit. Um, so, but, but you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re trying to put your morals in your, um, Christian standard and how we try to live this life as followers of Jesus inside relationship with Jesus on two individuals that aren’t.

Um, like they, they can have whatever moral standard they choose to have. Um, and now you’re in this weird round of like, well, I can’t vote for that into well, he’s an asshole. Well, yeah. What does him being an asshole have anything to do with like, You should be voting on policy in all reality, not if he’s an asshole or not.

Um, because the chances of being an asshole are pretty high, mainly because Christians are still assholes. Uh, and we, we have direct access to Jesus. So those that don’t have drag access to Jesus. Why would you expect them to be anything other than something that you don’t want to be like? I don’t know. I think there’s that piece of it too, that you just.

And you’re, and I’ll say this too, we’re making comments that from two individuals that are hyper political, like I would argue Andrew and I love politics. We know the policies we’re right in the, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we know who we’re voting for and why we’re voting and all those types of things. Um, and yet we can still take the stance of like, does it really matter?

And along it matters is me as a citizen. It does not matter me as a follower of Jesus.

Andrew: Exactly. And it’s that order we confuse and maybe bringing it back to kindness a little bit. Like I think anytime we start to get the order of things that matter in our lives confused, then we start making the wrong choices.

Like, yeah. Cause if, if to me in this moment, politics is more important than my relationship with Jesus. Or more important than my marriage, more important than me being a good dad, more important than my job, more, you know, go down the list. If politics starts bumping up and becomes the second most important thing in my life, the first most, then I’m going to start making some really bad choices like, and any time, like.

I don’t know, I’m not perfect. You’re not perfect. Uh, but anytime. Okay, well, you would start to say this presidential race is more important than, than more people coming to know. Jesus, this president’s presidential race is more important than whatever, you know, We’re missing the boat so, so badly. It’s not even funny.

Like we can pray for, for our leaders. We can pray for people in politics. We can pray that God reveals himself. Even through evil actions that, that God would be revealed through the leaders of the nation that whatever, like he’s in control. I’m not, and I gotta be cool with that, but yeah, man, there was a lot of uncovered shown and a lot of stuff where it’s like, well, that sucks that those are the, you know, those are two choices.

One of them is. Going to be president I’m in, in a couple months here. So it sucked to see that, but that doesn’t define me as somebody living in this country. It certainly doesn’t define me in the way that I, I view myself through my relationship with God, you know? So,

Josh: um, yeah. I don’t think a lot of our identity comes from who we vote for as well as Americans.

Andrew: Yeah. It should be

Josh: like, it’s a representation of us. Yeah. It’s just a horrible position of binders of it. Like, I don’t want the people, I vote for it to be representative of me, not in the sense that. They represent me and my identity as a human being. I do want them to represent me in the sense that I’m an American and I’ve like, I want them to represent the policies that I believe they stand for.

Um, but beyond that, like, yeah, I align and think we’ve talked about this before I align more with the Republican platform than I do the democratic platform. I probably be more centuries central than most Republicans do, but I can vote for Trump and not think to myself. Oh, like, He’s a great person. He’s going to be a great leader.


Andrew: yeah. You don’t have to deceive yourself into this he’s 100%, man.

Josh: Yeah, he’s the 100% of bully, but he’s also pushing through the agenda that I want to push through. Um, So how he’s doing it does not need to necessarily be because my two options kind of both suck. Like I’d rather not feel free either of them if I had a better option, but you know, I know Kanye is on the Colorado ballot, so that’s a great win for us.

But, um, I don’t think he’s going to win the election. I

Andrew: don’t know.

Josh: It’s just, I think, I think, well, let’s get back to the kindness conversation too, like

Andrew: yeah.

Josh: Man when politics interests, the picture kindness goes right out the window.

Andrew: Oh dude. Hundred percent. Yeah, no, it’s, it’s back to that prison. Shank analogy of like, I got to prove that I’m not to be messed with, you know, that’s like politics all day is if you hit me, I gotta hit you 10 times harder, you know?

Like, and, and when we think about kindness, like you started to mention this a little bit, But like if I were looking to politicians, if that, if that’s my defining thing in my life of this is most important, I want to focus on politics right now. Cause it’s election season. Um, then, then I start to say, well, how do they display kindness?

How do they display love? How do they display? Trust how, you know, like you can start modeling your life after that. And it just is, is going to take you like, who wants to be a politician man? So dirty. It’s like slimy. No, you’re always lying. You’re saying one thing doing another, but when you start saying, okay, what, what does it mean to be kind as a Christian?

Like you, you kind of laid this out where sometimes you could just think. It means being super agreeable or always really friendly or smart failing all the time. But you look at Jesus’s example of kindness and all throughout the new Testament. Jesus would like be noticing the people. No one else wanted to notice, like he would, yeah.

He’d be literally walking up to people with leprosy who you’re supposed to be. Like. I think the role is like a hundred feet from like, they were supposed to stay far away from

Josh: people, some social, and he was.

Andrew: He would break social distance, big time, straight up, walk up to them and healed them. And like he did that on me, any occasions, um, he would notice the people who were the outcasts of society.

So to them, they’d be like, he’s like kindest, most compassionate person I’ve ever interacted with. I think they would say that now heresy, if you’re one of the religious leaders of the day, that was like, Maybe, I assume not all of them were bad, but there were quite a few that were bad. Um, Jesus was not kind to them.

Maybe, maybe he was kind cause he was honest with them and he was honest with them. I’m in front of people of like you guys, aren’t leading people towards God, you’re leading people towards you and you’re doing it for money, power fame. You’re doing it for, to be noticed to be invited parties. You’re not doing your job.

Right. You know, and he’d call them out. And if you ask them, is he kind, they’d probably be like, Dude’s the biggest jerk ever. We need to kill that guy. We’re trying to kill that guy. We tried a bunch of times and eventually worked. Um, but yeah, man, it’s, uh, it’s interesting because we think of kindness and you might just think of a big smile or somebody who’s a pushover, super agreeable, but I don’t think that’s what it means to be kind.

Uh, I don’t think that’s what, what Jesus modeled it, it meant to be kind, I guess.

Josh: Yeah, I think Eugene Peterson puts it well in the message. Um, he takes this love is love is patient love is kind and he kind of expands upon it. Um, but for love is kind, he is he’s he defines it this way or says it this way.

I should say, love cares more for others than for self. Um, and I think there’s a piece of that. That we like, we think kindness is, I’m just going to tell you Andrew, everything you want to hear. That’s me being kind. I don’t tell you things that are true. I don’t tell you things that may cause pain or discomfort.

I only tell you things you want to hear and well, that’s not, that’s not putting you. You know, in your, you know, caring for you more than I care for myself, because I’m just trying to avoid conflict. Um, but I can speak truth to you in such a way with great care and love, um, that is going to come across in a way that I’m genuinely trying to be kind to you in this moment.

Um, so like here’s a good example. And I think this example comes from there’s a book called the most excellent way to lead by Perry noble on those written, like, I don’t know, four or five years ago. We’ll link it in the show notes, but, um, he kind of takes first Corinthians 13 and breaks it apart from a leadership perspective of this is how we lead while he shares a story.

Uh, and I’ll just paraphrase the story to retell it, uh, about this principle of being kind and, um, One of the things is, you know, say Sally, we’ll pick on Sally again, poor

Andrew: Sally, Sally

Josh: really, really tear into you, but we’ll pick on Sally again. So Sally makes this, um, gluten free sugar-free banana bread, uh, try for the first time.

She’s never really cooked it before and she wants to test it out on you. Uh, so she brings it to you and she’s like, man, I worked so hard on this. I think I figured it out so good. And she gives you a slice and you’re like, gluten-free, it’s going to suck, but whatever, I’m going to be kind and show her, uh, and, and take a bite.

So I take a bite and. It’s terrible, terrible. It’s the worst thing that I’ve ever tasted. I think she’d like put dog poop in it. It’s so bad, but I put a nice face on and I chew it and I swallow it. Uh, and I said, Oh man, that is that’s. That’s so good. I’m so glad that you made that. I think, I think you’re you’re right.

I think you’re onto something. And then. Time goes on. Uh, and now she wants to make this for the entire family. We’re talking to the extended family, everybody we’re talking Hunter  of people. He’s, she’s gonna make this for, um, and she starts the word going, going around of, Hey, the fan reunions coming up and I’m bringing my famous, uh, you know, super healthy banana bread.

Um, and you know, uncle, uncle Larry hears of all this and uncle Larry is kind of the matriarch or the, whatever, the man first major Patriot patriarch of the family. And he gets Sally up there and says, guys, Sally has brought her healthy banana bread. You can eat as much as you want. It makes us big deal out of it.

And they started giving us sizes. And, you know, uncle goes, Hey, everyone, we’re going to take the first bite altogether. So nobody that’s kind of like communion. They actually, that they did communion together and they replaced the wafer with the banana bread. Yes. And they all eat at the same time. And it’s kind of starts in the back and people start throwing up at the back cause it tastes like dog poop still.

Uh, and it kind of works its way forward. And here is Sally in front of hundreds of her family members completely humiliated because you chose not to be kind right. And tell her the truth one day. Hey Sally, I know you tried really hard on this. I know that they put a lot of time into it and you were trying to figure this out.

But this doesn’t taste good. And here’s why I don’t think it tastes good. Yeah. Right. Like there’s true kindness. And this goes along with the verses, like there’s a level of truth that we want to function inside of, but we don’t function inside of truth without love surrounding it completely. Right. I think that’s why the way that this verse structure is built is loving all these ways.

We still take pleasure in truth. And then we continue to love in these ways. Um, and I think oftentimes we take the other approach of. Well, because of truth. I just have to tell you the truth and not care about you as a human being. I’m no longer caring more about you than I’m caring about myself, because truth is the most important thing in the entire world.

And Jesus is very clear. It’s not love is more important than the rest of these. Yup. Yup. That was a long, that was a long story and rant, but I think he gets it

Andrew: poor Sally man. She tried so hard on that banana bread. But

Josh: you’re right. Yeah. But let’s be honest. Sally’s never made anything good. Like

Andrew: it’s not your fault.


Josh: had her chicken Marsala

Andrew: it’s bad.

Josh: Um, yeah,

Andrew: no, man. I, uh, I think that’s good. And just to, obviously we’re not like an all politics show, but that is a big issue right now in our country. And I think. Whether you’re Republican or Democrat, an independent green party person or whatever you are like right now, it’s really, really, really easy to not to, to just interject your beliefs, um, in a really passionate way to anybody who’s talking about it.

So it’s like, I think the, the. Like the way to be kind maybe, or a way to be kind that I’m at least trying, um, to do it in this season is that like, I’m trying to just not interject my belief that often, like I have strong beliefs and I, I do care about politics. It it’s fascinating to me because I think it’s a way to kind of understand what.

People across our country are thinking and where our culture is. It’s a, it’s a good lens to look through, but I get that, that a lot of people, if you disagree with them about one thing, then like, then they feel like you just stabbed them. You know, they feel like that’s a, that’s like violent against them.

So one small thing I’m trying to do that. I hope people perceive as, as kind as trying to just be willing to listen and be totally open to whatever opinions. I’m hearing and not necessarily interject right away with, well, let me tell you what I think about that, or let me tell you why you’re wrong or, you know, it’d be real easy to say, well, that’s really dominant and uninformed, and this is why, like all of those things could be true.

Maybe you’re listening to an opinion that’s super uninformed from your perspective, or just is uninformed. But. If we’re here to represent Jesus. If we’re here to live into the kingdom of God, then this, this app attribute of love. That’s demonstrated through kindness. Like. This just isn’t the season to say, I’m just going to crush this person politically and make them feel bad personally, like that doesn’t win anybody for first of all, it doesn’t win a vote.

Doesn’t win any influence, but more importantly, it definitely breaks down

Josh: just the vote for the other side.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. It solidifies it the other way. But like, you know, back to that kind of patients discussion we had, it’s like, you’re, you’re breaking the chance at further relationship by saying like, let me tell you how dumb and wrong that is.

Like now it’s a lot easier, requires a bit more restraint, but a kind thing might often be in this scenario just to say. That just don’t have to interject my opinion. If you ask me for it, I’m happy to give it an anonymous. If you ask me if the banana bread was good, I’m going to give you clear feedback of like, I don’t need to crush Sally by saying, Hey, that tasted horrible.

I can’t believe you even cooked something so bad. No, but you can be like, Hey, you know what I mean? I actually think normal banana. Bread’s a lot better and wasn’t quite sweet enough. And here’s some of the flavors I got, like just. I wouldn’t cook it again, that exact same way, but maybe tweak it and track it, you know?

Like you can do that. Um, cause it’s kind, it’s honest. It’s, that’s how you’re being kind is right. Being truthful. So I don’t know, man, it’s just easy right now to, to want to jump into every argument online or to jump down people’s throats when you’re in person and somebody feels the opposite way. Thinks opposite way about politics, but I don’t think that’s kind of, I don’t think it’s what Jesus would do.

You know? Um, no, if you had a WWE, plenty of times you could break it out right now,

Josh: but then there’s plenty of times that I’m on Facebook reading something and I’m like, Oh, heck no, I’m not to post on this one. And then you’ve got to stop yourself of like one horrible medium to have these types of conversations in a two.

I’m not going to convince them in this moment as. Elegant as I think my words are, uh, in three, he’s an idiot and he’s not gonna understand anyways, uh, just kidding. Like that’s the reality of it. And I think too, there’s a piece of kindness that we, um, we fear of getting trampled over. If we’re two kinds of people, Um, we fear that we’re going to be harmed in the midst of our kindness.

Um, and the reality is those fears are probably true. Um, but it doesn’t mean stop doing it. Like I think of Jesus, uh, at, um, The moment of his arrest. So here’s Judas. One of his, his disciples have been traveling with him now for years, they’ve been doing everything together. Like he’s, he’s one of the 12 he’s he’s right there with Jesus 24 seven, uh, for the most part.

Um, and here he comes with these religious leaders to have him arrested and eventually executed, um, in comes up, uh, The other disciples around him, one of them pulls out a sword, goes to cutoff Judas. His ear is successful at it. Um, and Jesus, in that moment, knowing that he just got betrayed by one of his closest people could have been like, yeah, you fricking deserve that.

Um, but instead of have that posture, he showed kindness in that moment. Um, he. He grabbed the, the gentleman’s ear, which means he had to physically touch him and put his ear back on to heal him. Um, so essentially it’s, here’s my enemy of enemies in this moment. Um, and in this moment I’m going to show great care and I’m going to show great kindness and I’m going to do what’s right.

Yeah. And I think that’s, I think it’s easy for us to look at versus like that. And there’s plenty of them of, you know, as you were saying with the healing leopards and healing, the blind, there’s plenty of things that the Jesus did to show kindness and they’re all throughout scripture. But, um,

Andrew: like

Josh: I think it’s easy for us to look at that and say, well, that’s Jesus.

Like, yeah, sure. Jesus can do that. You’re like, yeah, I get it. It’s Jesus. But he’s also the example that like, that’s why he came to earth, right? He was setting a very clear example to us. He could have came down for a day there, what he needed to do and then died on the cross and took care of it. But he didn’t, he came down to establish his disciples to sabals his church to show us this, this new kingdom and how it’s lived.

Um, so we can have the full life that he promised us. Um, And I think we often miss that and go, well, I’m just not Jesus. I’m not going to do that. Or you go get and say, no, well, Jesus got angry. You’re like, sure. He, he did. And we have an example of that and we’ll get to those verses a little bit later when we talk about love is slow to anger.

Um, but anger like. I think you’re trying to find justification oftentimes for you not to be kind, um, rather than choosing to put others before ourselves. And I think when you start to live in that area, we start to live in sin. When I start to justify, we just fire our sin all the time. And it’s just another example of that, but it to justify this sin more, not living in deep relationship with Jesus, we’re not living a deep relationship with each other and that’s causing that’s causing strife and disconnection and, and.

Essentially sin in our lives. So I think you’ve gotta be careful on how we show kindness. Um, and it’s not a facade of kindness. We talked about this with patients too, right? This love cannot be faked. Like yeah. Like, it’s just not a part of, of how this works. Like I can fake kindness to you, but, but like, let’s be honest.

People are smart. They know it’s being faked. They know I’m not genuinely caring about them as a human being. I’m not seeing them as a human being, going back to the political thing. Like no one sees each other as a human being when politics are discussed, like we’re just, we’re talking about issues and we’re going for it.

I’m going to win this argument. Yeah, and I miss the person that’s standing in front of me. Um, so I think there’s a big piece of, of kindness that, that we miss when we choose not to see the people in front of us as human beings that I should deeply care for as Jesus saw human beings is deeply cared for, kind of goes back to the patient’s thing of, I can’t.

Show patients, if I don’t see you as a human being, right. That Jesus deeply loves. Like, if you’re just a task, you’re gonna help me accomplish something I’m missing out on so much relationship in life. Um, because, because I’m too focused on, on what’s in front of me, rather than you as a human being.

Andrew: Yeah.

And like, going back to that, I think that example you used, isn’t it like didn’t John, grab a sword and cut one of the soldiers ears off. Was that right in that, like in the arrest story, wasn’t it is. So like, if you think about it in the perspective to live the soldier, he was going out in his mind to arrest a criminal, you know?

And it’s basically like, that’s what part of what soldiers did like he, so in that guy’s mind, it was just like, Fight on, you know, we’re going to get, this is going to get bloody. And, uh, and that was probably normal business, you know? Um, but that’s probably true, but when you’re looking at that through Jesus has eyes, he Hmm.

You that dude’s story fully. And it was like, no, no, this is another chance for me to like blow somebody’s mind with, with kindness, like real kindness of like, Whoa, Everybody’s settled down. I’m literally going to heal the student’s ear. I’m going to put it back on. Yeah. And that guy, when he sees me die in a few days, like think of what his story might have been, you know, of like, yeah.

That guy is the real deal. We just killed the savior, man. We killed somebody. Who’s not

Josh: normal, dude. I am too. It’s they’re going to come with a group of guards. It’s not gonna be one guy just walked along by himself. Like, like he said, he thought he was coming, coming with the, um, you know, to arrest a criminal.

So that’s the posture that they’re taking. Um, So it’s not just the example to that one soldiers example everyone around it and even Judas, right? Like Judas eventually hangs himself. Cause she really, he realizes what he came to do, uh, or what his actions caused and right. Um, and you know, Peter too, like Peter cutting off the dude’s ear, like yeah.

There’s that piece of it too, of like you just watched. Your anger took over and you tried to defend what you thought was the right thing to do, right? When Jesus essentially redefined the kingdom again and showed you, here’s the real posture we’re supposed to take. It kind of goes back to our earlier conversation too, of, of, you know, who’s in office and priorities and all those kinds of things.

Like here’s a moment for Peter that he’s learning of. Oh like, yeah, this is seems terrible. This seems like the most important thing in front of me right now. But Jesus is trying to say in the grand scheme of things, this is just one step to a greater glory. Like show your horses. It’s okay. I’m still in control.

Andrew: Yeah. The attributes of the kingdom of heaven are more important than the circumstances of this moment. You just experienced, you know, it’s like, it’s actually more important to consistently and authentically demonstrate kindness, demonstrate patience, demonstrate all the other characteristics. We’re going to talk about to show love and to do it.

Yeah. Like you said, you can’t just fake it. Like, um, and, and I don’t say this all from a perspective of being always kind. It’s not true. I’m not always kind of like, and I, I put my foot in my mouth a lot and, uh, and regret it, you know, um, in moments when I’m unkind, but, um, the ability to show authentic kindness from a place of like, I know God, I know Jesus.

They’re kind to me, you know, like Jesus sets an example of how I’m to live and, and through God’s power through his grace in my life, I’m able to live these things out and look radically different. Um, one example there was, I remember reading about this. It was probably six months ago when I read about this, but I think it was a story from a while before that, but, um, there was a, uh, shooting, um, in, um, an Amish community in Pennsylvania.

And somebody went in and shot. Um, I think like three or four children died. It was like a radical shooter. Went in and shot three or four kids in, I believe a school. Um, and the, the Amish yeah. Community that was in, they, they stood up that day, um, United and said, yeah, we forgive him. We don’t want charges pressed against him.

We want them to know Jesus, we forgiven, you know, and like wow. Meant it. And it was just like, not obviously not to being a manipulative, obviously their morning, what just happened. Like they, they just lost kids. They could killed, you know, and they shouldn’t, and it’s like everybody, our natural instinct is like, yeah, kill that guy.

He deserves to die. So the public can see in a bad way. And it’s like, no, when like, That forgiveness, actual forgiveness is like, well, um, I’ve been forgiven deeply of my sin. I’ve been forgiven deeply of the things that, that I, uh, did against God. So I have to be able to show them to other people and it’s brutal.

And I wouldn’t want anybody I know to have to be in that scenario of choosing, do we go out and say, give him what he deserves or forgive him, you know? But like, yeah, but I think that’s the. Depth of authenticity you can have of like, no, I, I truly believe that I need to be kind. So I’m going to physically heal this person’s ear in God’s power, you know,

Josh: like,

Andrew: but for most of us, I think the normal reaction would be like, Oh good.

He lost one ear off the other one, maybe the head like that’s, that’s good, you know, but, uh, but that’s not, that’s not what Jesus did in the moment. So. I dunno, man, it’s possible. It’s all I’m trying to say. The kingdom of God is here and it’s possible to live in it. Um, it’s not

Josh: easy. We find that full life is when we choose to live in it and lean into it.

You know, Jesus was very clear when someone strikes you on one side, turned to them, the other cheek, and that seems stupid. And that seems irresponsible. That seems, um, Uh, destructive. Um, it seems like it could be extremely threatening to our wellbeing. Um, but that that’s the posture that we’re we’re to take.

So then when I’m taking that posture, what I’m telling myself is who’s in control, like is God in control still, even though bad things are happening to me, um, or. Is this individual that are causing bad things, the person in control. Now God’s still in control. He can redeem anything. Um, I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t live in worry.

I shouldn’t live in fear. Um, and I think there’s a piece of that too, but I think to sum up our entire conversation since we’ve kind of been a little bit all over the place. Yeah. I’m like. As you’re functioning and going through life, the question you should be asking yourself is, am I putting the care for this individual above myself in this moment?

Yeah. So when you’re questioning that this, Karen is this kindness or kindness is putting the care of that individual in care looks in a variety of different ways. It’s what’s best for that individual. Um, and not being an asshole, uh, is, is a big piece of that. Uh, even if you are right. Like, that’s not kindness.

Like truth does not beat out love, like love, beats out truth. Um, I think, I think the gospel writers and Jesus himself are very clear it’s grace and truth, and it wasn’t true thing, grace, I think there’s an order to it. Um, if we can’t show, if we’re chant, can’t show grace or not. We’re not going to be able to show truth while either.

Yeah. And I think that’s where we live. It was as, as trying to do relationship better, better, and trying to show, um, love, uh, through our kindness.

Andrew: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s a great like barometer to go from of am I putting other people’s needs in front of mine? You know, am I, am I choosing to be kind when I could be not kind, you know, cause it’s a choice, it’s always a choice and you don’t need to be a doormat.

You don’t need to just have a great smile on all the time or a fake smile on all the time. But yeah. You know, back to some of the examples that you gave, like you, you can be legitimately kind in a very, very clear way in a very authentic way. And it, you know, and it’s obviously not for just the point of looking good it’s for the point of making Jesus look good.

It’s for the point of, of pointing people back towards God of saying like, well, how the heck are you living like that? It’s like, well, cause I that’s how Jesus lived and I know, I know God through his example, you know?

Josh: Um, yeah. And I think too, like one of the interpretations of Paul’s writing about, um, looking, looking to the next life, like live this life for the next life and kind of how he explains those things.

I think there’s a principle inside of that, of just pulling yourself out of the situation that’s right in front of you. That seems to be the most important situation, um, to do what’s right in, in terms of like truth needs to be spoken or however you want to. Yeah, whatever you want to throw in there. And I think there’s a real key of pulling yourself out of that situation, to be able to see the big picture, like going back to Peter, cutting off the guy’s ear, like it’s pulling back and seeing the big picture.

The big picture is there’s a kingdom being established here. There’s relationships that are going to be established here. You’re about to introduce something that’s going to bring hope and a future to so many different people, um, through the gospel, through. And there’s a bigger picture here. So this is how we live it so we can live out the bigger picture.

I know my arrest, my death is right in front of us. I know that feels like the most important thing, but that’s not the big picture. Can you pull yourself out, focus on the next life and focus on the big picture. And I think we can do that. In our daily lives as well, in terms of even the little things of like, I’m going to show kindness in this moment is kindness in this moment.

Like, how do I show it? Um, truth is important, but relationship is more important than truth, uh, right. So how do we live inside a relationship so I can speak truth and because I have influence and authority to do so in a kind and caring way. I think we get those mixed up all the time. That as long as I’m speaking truth, then everything’s good.

And truth outside of kindnesses is just destructive. Yeah. Yeah,

Andrew: absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So last episode, uh, and I’ll, I’ll let you go in just a minute here, man. But, um, last episode we talked about kind of patients, you know, ask God for a chance to demonstrate it and yeah. And also ask him when you’re impatient Lord, would you reveal why I was impatient in that.

Yeah, kindness. I don’t have that clear challenge, but I know that you’re probably, if you’re listening and probably gonna hear something or see something about politics that you deeply disagree with, no matter which side you’re on. And, uh, maybe a small challenge is just value the individual more than the thing that they just said.

Um, know, choose to be kind, choose to reach out, to care for them, whether whether you agree with them about Trump or about whoever else doesn’t matter, choose to reach out out of love and be kind to them because I think we need it, man. I think this has been a hard year for most people in our country and a lot of people around the world.

So we could use a little more kindness right now and we can definitely use some more love that comes from an authentic place. So that’s got

Josh: that’s good. That’s good.

Andrew: Thanks for listening to our show. It means a lot to us, and we hope that by listening, you grow closer in your relationship with Jesus and with others. And please help us out with writing

Josh: on cast or leaving us a review on the platform. You’re listening to it. Lets you do that to also follow us on Instagram and please share us with your phone.

This helps us share this message of hope that is found in Jesus and his

Andrew: God. A

Josh: message that has the potential to change the lives of the people around

Andrew: you. And we want to hear from you, you can email say message us on Instagram, or just catch up with us online on our, our website, where you can view our show notes and

Josh: all the links to the things we talked about.

Andrew: And this jesus’ life podcast, doc, Tom, thanks for listening to our show.

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