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Looking in the Mirror
Episode No. 52

We often believe that it is up to our own ability to sin less and do more for the Kingdom and we are wrong to believe that. Our relationship with Jesus is our primary focus and our only role is to foster relationship and do what Jesus says inside that relationship. You’ll be blown away by the more fruit your life will produce when you live inside this relationship.

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Verses – Galatians 5.
Verses – Matthew 11.
Verses – John 10:10.


Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name’s Josh. 

Andrew: Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus’ life podcast. Welcome back, Josh. I almost messed up the intro right there. 

Josh: You said he forget what to say. 

Andrew: Here’s the deal. You, you went okay, here we go. And then it was like a long pause and I was like, is it me?

Is it Josh? Is it me? It’s Josh. Then you went. And for some reason I, uh, I dunno, drip me up and we’ve done it 50 sometimes at this point 

Josh: too. Well, we’ve done it more than 52 times 52 episodes out there in the world. So that means folks listening. You can listen to us every week of the month or of the year, not the month.

We have 52 of these thinking things, and let’s be honest, our podcasts range right. About an hour. And if your average commute is 15 to 20 minutes, you know, you can get through a podcast for half a week. Um, yeah. If you have a commute, maybe your commute from your bedroom to your office, but yeah. So dig in, go all the way back.

We did take the first two episodes down, um, from all the, all the syndicated podcast places. Um, because we didn’t think that they were that good and people kept going straight to those ones and listening to them. And we were like, this is a really bad start. We should start them later. But if you go 

Andrew: to our pod, if you want to like starting at three, it was right.

Yeah, it took us a while to get the hang of this, hopefully better. Um, but I hope and listen, I 

Josh: think you can, you can listen to those episodes. Um, yeah. Uh, on our website, this Jesus life Those episodes are up there. 

Andrew: Yeah, but don’t, but don’t start with episode three and then, you know, listen to that one, three times and then all the rest.

And that is, uh, a full year of podcasts. Uh, one dude. Um, you’re about to go on vacation. So we are, we’re recording two episodes this week. Um, what she, what are you up to next week? Ben? Where are you going? 

Josh: Uh, I’ve already gone for those listening. I’m back home, protecting my home. So don’t try to distribute I’m here.

My dog is going to protect me and he will bite you in the nuts. Just like Paul said in coalitions five, a masculine yourself. 

Andrew: He will emasculate you. 

Josh: Yep. Unless you make a really loud noise or yell at him and there’s a good chance just run away. Uh, but now I’m back protecting my home as you’re listening to this episode.

Yes. Now I’m headed to Phoenix, um, to the hot, hot, uh, desert, um, because my brother, uh, is on house arrest and can’t leave the state. Um, so we’re stuck there. Just kidding. He’s being deployed sooner. He can’t leave the state. Um, this is getting ready to get deployed. Um, but, uh, yeah, we, my dad rented us a ginormous house for the entire family to hang out and, uh, I think it’s like 28 of us is the number something crazy.

Um, Dang. So it should be a grand old time. I’m going out a couple of days early, so I can, I can catch up with friends that I haven’t seen in awhile. Um, and all that fun stuff. My brother’s birthday is on Tuesday. He’s in Phoenix now. Um, so celebrate with him and all that fun stuff too. So it should be a great trip.

Um, Yeah, that’s really it. Other than it’s going to be really hard. It should be really nice. And the beautiful thing about Phoenix is you move from one air conditioned place to another. Um, so it’s never, you know, miserably hot. Yeah. Phoenix. It’s basically 

Andrew: just crazy hot and air conditioned. That’s what.

Everything is in Phoenix, but it’s a 

Josh: cool spot. I didn’t know when I moved to Colorado, I just assume all houses came with air condition unless they’re really, really old. And then I moved to called route and found out, no, that’s not the case. Air conditioning is a luxury in Colorado and you gotta be really careful to make sure you find a place that has one or spend the money.

But when it. 

Andrew: Dude, I have a trip this weekend. Um, I can’t say it’s as exciting, but it will be fun. We’re going to, we’re going to drive to Ohio and have a four day weekend there. Um, we’re going to this place called, um, like Hocking Hills, but like there’s all the, it’s basically like, Very rural and there’s all these like cool caves and like great hiking spots and fishing and camping.

And we rented a couple like big cabins as a family. And, uh, I dunno, should be fun hopefully. So the goal is just like, as long as the weather’s good, it’ll be fun. Cause there’s a ton of kids now. So it’s just like, Let’s get somewhere that everybody can run around and have a good time and do some campfires and all that good stuff.

So, yeah, man, I’m looking forward to it should be good 

Josh: for sure. That’d be awesome. Sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah. Is it stupid humid in Ohio? 

Andrew: Sometimes, uh, usually more like July, August, that’s when it’s like swampy super hot ended June is normally just like a little toasty, but nice. You know, so hopefully I haven’t even checked the weather, but I think it’s supposed to be good, uh, based on what my brother said.

So. Yeah, man. Also, speaking of weather, um, I don’t know what weather app you use, but I use an app called AccuWeather and, uh, it’s like every time I open the app, it’s like special weather statement. Be warned, watch out, you know, to the point where it’s like just a beautiful day and you open it. It’s like special weather statement.

Your son will be burned if you’re outside, stay inside. Like. Everything is like bad with weather in there. So I probably need a new weather app, 

Josh: honestly. Yeah. There’s probably a certain personality that they like cater to and they’re just like loving it. They’re like, Oh, everything’s horrible. There’s always something to be scared of.

Andrew: I would make a calm weather app for your glass. He kind of personal.

Josh: All right. I got a question for you there, Andrew. What’s the last random thing that made you smile. 

Andrew: Last random thing that made me smile. Um, this morning, my. Got her finally caught a, we call them tiger frog. Um, they’re like just this cool. They, they look kind of like tigers, you know, like they have cool like stripes and patterns on them.

Um, and she caught one and was just super pumped about it and she, she just briefly picked it up and, uh, and held it out in front of her. And. Yeah, I guess not super random, but that made me smile for sure. But just the fact she like totally loves frogs. Um, and then, you know, like a second later I’m like, and that frog might not be able to breathe.

Yeah. Yeah. But like, she’s just holding it. Legs were dangling. Frog was like barely able to breathe, but she was loving it and she did let it go back into the wild. It’s fine. Um, but yeah, dude, that made me smile. What about you? Anything? Uh, 

Josh: funny and room. Yeah. Uh, I don’t know. I’m trying to think. I should stop asking you questions that don’t have answers to, since you’re going to turn it on me.

Um, always do you know, there’s, there’s a, uh, There’s a statistic out there. I don’t know if it’s true, but they say the average adult laughs seven times a day, uh, Ben seasons of her life, or that’s not true, but I would argue, I laugh a lot more than seven times in a day and it can be the smallest of things like Instagram memes, stupid videos, man.

They’re just, they’re funny. Uh, how, how can you not laugh at things that make you that make you smile? I’m trying to think. There’s nothing that my dogs are currently doing. That makes me proud of him. Oh, that’s not true. Okay. This is really more proud of me proud of my dog. Um, so my dog doesn’t like his front paws touched, uh, for the life of him would not lay on his back, uh, uh, unless.

No, he wouldn’t let us back for any reason, like, he’d kill you first before you let him get us back. And I’ve been working very diligently over the last and really it started this. I’m just going to try to annoy him. Um, And so I touch his paws and like, hold on, his back, paws are fine. He’s letting me touch those for a long time, but it’s front paws, but now I’m like, now hold his pause for like a significant of time.

And like he’s used to it. He lets me do it. And then yesterday, uh, he was like early in the morning, he was like trying to get me up. It’s like six o’clock or something like that. And I didn’t want to get out of bed yet. Um, so we’re just laying there and I, I got him to lay over. Like he was like spread Eagle.

Wow. Fully exposed, which is ginormous man parts. Cause my dog, my dog is a blessed dog. It’s weird. I don’t know. He’s a tiny dude, but small dog and laid there forever. Yeah, and I was like, that’s awesome. Now I’m gonna get them completely to roll. Like the last thing I couldn’t get him to do. Nice. Yeah. So nice, nice.

Figured it out. That’s funny. It might only happen if he’s laying on something comfortable. I might not be able to get them to do it all the time, but Hey, Hey, small steps, baby steps. It’s like that movie baby steps into the elevator baby steps out of the elevator. What about Bob? You see it. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. I haven’t seen Carlos, but that rings a bell.

I remember. Yeah, absolutely. Oh man, 

Josh: that’s funny. Yeah. 

Andrew: Um, speaking of, uh, Instagram thing, I think it’s just like a tick talk, like real I’m pretty sure reels are like what a tech talk right on Instagram. Isn’t that the same thing. And then they 

Josh: only suck you in as bad as Tik TOK does.

Andrew: So. Dude. I saw a really funny, funny one where it was like, um, this mom walked in, you know, like with an ultrasound ultrasound pictures and showed it to her husband. And he looked and like, instead of just being like, wow, you know, like started laughing really hard and then she’s zoomed in on it. And one of the whole photos was just.

Balls like a ball sack right there. Um, like for whatever reason that baby just decided to pose that way. 

Josh: What? Oh, okay. I thought, I thought you were just watching people that were looking at ball sacks and I’m starting to get worried. 

Andrew: No, no, no. It was a baby ultrasound photo and one of the whole photos was, uh, was balls.


Josh: classic. That’s funny. That’s one you post on the wall. Oh man. I’m just so like, what do you have friends come over there? And there’s like just stare and Sarah, and then eventually get that moment. I’m like, Oh, I’m looking at us. Yeah. That’s a good picture, bro. 

Andrew: No, as the dad, you’re just like, you know what that picture is, 

Josh: you know, you’re proud of it.

That’s your baby boy. You want the world, you know,

It might not be your baby boy yet. Wait until he’s 10 or 11 and let him identify himself for now. I love Josh. It’s the best wins. 

Andrew: Anytime you say one time, like I’m not going to get political, like within 

Josh: five minutes.

I’m just, I’m sorry. My, my liberal friends are listening. It’s just funny.

Andrew: It is funny. A crazy person. 

Josh: Don’t be crazy. I voted for the bad man orange. Like I can laugh at myself. Yeah, 

Andrew: just laugh, laugh. It’s better, dude. Speaking of laughter, what are we, uh, what are we talking about today, man, other 

Josh: than balls, uh, you could have did better. You could have did better.

We’re talking about freedom. Jesus folks. Read them in Jesus, uh, Galatians chapter five. It’s the same verses we actually read last week. Um, but I think there’s a couple more angles that we can come at it and important enough that we should talk about it, um, to help you find that freedom in Jesus and live in that freedom of Jesus.

I think oftentimes we can find it intellectually. We can understand it in our heads, um, of how we’re supposed to experience this life as a follower of Jesus being completely forgiven and restored back in relationship with God. Um, but I think oftentimes we don’t let that knowledge get to our hearts and we don’t live it.

And we still try to do it on our own. We still have to try to do it by the flesh. Um, and when we try to do it on our own, man, do we fail miserably? Uh, and that’s where that burden comes in. That’s where that, you know, exhausting life of Christianity comes in the opposite of what Jesus had called it to be.

You know what you said? His burden is light, uh, in, I just wrote it down. I was just in there it’s Romans. Um, 

Andrew: I don’t know. Is it Romans? Yeah, I like it’s not right. Yoke is easy. And my 

Josh: burden is light math. Matthew 11, Jesus said, but I knew it was wrong. The second I said, Romans Romans was a different verse.

I found this morning. Um, But, yeah, so it’s, it’s that piece of like, how do we live? I live in this life full of freedom. How do we live in this life? Um, should it feel light? Um, that should feel, uh, full of life or John 10, 10, where he says, I’ve come to give you life and give it to the full, just feel that way rather than the first part of that verse, which is the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy.

Um, and that’s really kind of what the conversation is going to be about today. As we continue to dig into it. Galatians five. Um, and if you haven’t read it yet, because you didn’t listen to her advice last episode, uh, spend some time with Jesus. Uh, take a, listen, uh, take a read of those verses and just allow Jesus to speak through them, to your soul, into your life foster a relationship with Christ.

Um, rather than just listening to us, because Hey, us talking about these things great. Probably helpful to some extent, but really it’s going to be more helpful to us because we’re digging into these, these verses with Jesus. We want it to be helpful to you as well. So you dig into these verses with Jesus spent some time with Jesus Paul’s words to the Galatians, but Galatians chapter five straight up Andrew, want to kind of recap what we talked about last episode, and then dig into this episode.

Andrew: Well, yeah. Um, sure thing. I was, uh, I was looking, I had an idea. I’m going to try to remember it and, uh, and go back to it. But, um, Last episode, we did kind of jump around, but as we really covered a lot of different pieces of Galatians five, but we focused in really on verses one through 12. If I remember correctly or know one through six, if I remember correctly, um, And we focused on what it means to have freedom in Christ and kind of freedom versus a religion like saying, no, I have all these commandments, I’m going to follow these exact commands and I’m good to go.

You know, it’s like more the spirit of the law than the exact law itself and kind of the two big commands that Jesus gave that are like, Overarching, you know, love the Lord, your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as your self, a loose paraphrase. But those are the two big ones.

And they’re both like spirit of the law, not exact, uh, don’t drive over 26 miles an hour in this neighborhood, you know, are over 25 miles an hour in this neighborhood. You know, they’re not exact they’re, they’re more spirit led. Um, Josh you, you mentioned some verses last week that I was thinking about, um, that might set us up well, or maybe derail us.

I don’t know, but, um, there at the end of this chapter, so I was going to read 19 through 25 loosely or through 26 loosely. Um, To start us. Um, 19 says the acts of the flesh are obvious sexual immorality and period impurity and tree idolatry in which class craft, um, which we talked about hatred and discord, jealousy fits of rage, selfish ambitions.

Dissensions factions and envy drunkenness, orgies, and the like I warn you as I did before, or that those who live in this will not inherit the kingdom of God. So we kind of talked about that piece last week. That’s 19 through 20. No 19 through 21. We talked about that some last week. Um, but mainly on the kind of negative side of like, don’t do these things, which that’s how it’s written, but then here’s the difference starting in 22, it says, but the fruit of the spirit is love.

Joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness. Faithfulness gentleness and self-control against such things. There is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the spirit, let us keep in step with the spirit. Let us not become conceited provoking and envying each other.

And man, I don’t know about you, but I grew up, um, I’m memorized are I I’m sure I had to memorize at some point for like, you know, a, a, some sort of reward, like a, if you memorize this first, between the Sunday, next Sunday, you get a piece of candy at church or something like that. Uh, but I remember memorizing the fruit of the spirit versus, um, When I was little.

And then I remember my mom painted that around the top of, of her kitchen. Um, the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control, um, But the cool thing about those that I’ve always loved is the last line of that, of against such things. There is no law, you know, like these are higher, these are higher things than the law can, can, can like constraint.

You know, it’s like, these are the things that it doesn’t matter. Your circumstances you can have, you can live these out. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness. And self-control. Like, I don’t know. I’ll stop saying that I might sound like a broken record, but there, there things that are higher than the rules, you know, higher than the do.

And don’t do, it’s like, these are. This is really a heart change and, uh, in a way of living. And it’s the result of, of having of living out a real relationship with the Lord, I guess. Um, so I don’t know how well that sets us up or doesn’t set us up for today, but, um, That’s my first thought, what were you thinking 

Josh: right along the same lines.

I think that’s great. Um, you know, I think, and you’ve heard us talk about this before in the podcast and you’ll hear us talk about it again, because we think it’s important. Um, but oftentimes, you know, we, especially when we look at these verses, Andrew, read them. In comparison to each other. So here’s a 19 and 20, if you want to look at those in the list of, of sin.

And then in comparison to the list of fruits of the spirit, um, in 22 and 23. Um, and oftentimes we look at it from a perspective of avoid these things in 19 and 20 and do these things in 22 and 23. Um, and to some extent that is that’s true, that’s the end goal, but I think too often we grab it. On our own ability, um, and say, well, I’m just gonna avoid all these sinful things and I’m just going to do all these godly things, um, rather than doing what verse 16 says, if we go back a little bit, um, uh, yeah.

16, which is the key to it. All right. So I say, this is Paul talking to the Galatians walk by the spirit. You will not gratify the desires of the fast and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Um, Sorry, I’m keeping reading to see if there’s anything led. Yeah. For I’ll keep reading for the flesh desires.

What is contrary to the spirit and the spirit? What is contrary to the flesh? They are in conflict with one another so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the spirit, you’re not under the law. Um, and I think here’s the key to all of this be led by the spirit. Um, and, and we talk about this all the time.

Like it’s not up to you to sin less and it’s not up to you to be more Holy or godly. That’s all up to Jesus. Our job is just to walk with Jesus and let Jesus do what Jesus does. And he’s going to. Mold you shape you sanctify you, uh, into, uh, who he’s called you to be in this life. Um, and it’s a lifelong journey.

Uh, you’re not going to be patient all the time. The longer you walk with Jesus, I would argue the more patient you’re going to be, or the more joyful you’re going to be, or in the more full of love you’re going to be. Um, but the key isn’t to do all those things, the key is to walk with Jesus, to walk by the spirit, to walk in, um, uh, relationship with Christ.

And I think that’s the key for all of us. And I think so often, um, we miss that, that key characteristic. Um, so often we look at well, it’s my responsibility to avoid all these things and it’s my responsibility to do all these other things. Um, and that’s where we get beaten down. That’s where Christianity becomes exhausting.

No, because I’m no longer relying on the spirit. I’m no longer relying on my relationship with Jesus. I’m trying to do it on my own. Like I’ve taken control. Right. And that’s pride and saying, God’s way, isn’t as good as my way. I’m going to choose my way. Um, and then you end up in these workplaces or say, You’re self disciplined enough to avoid all those, those, those sins.

Um, and you’re self disciplined enough to hit a lot of, at least to some extent, um, and characteristics of all the fruits of the spirit. Um, and now you’re going to be in pride of looking at yourself and saying, look, what I can do. Look what I’ve accomplished for God. Um, rather than coming at it from the perspective of God should be, um, The leader of all of this and the leader of your life.

Um, and God should be the one that’s working out all these things, because the reality is sure. You could probably avoid a debauchery. I would assume, uh, idolatry probably sneaks in there and you just choose not to identify it. Uh, I would guess witchcraft in general, I don’t know a lot of people that practice it hatred.

Uh, you gotta take some time 

Andrew: to choose 

Josh: that one definition. Yeah, you’ve got, you could take us, you could define hatred in such a way that you’re not committing it. Um, and you can get into drunkenness and envy. You can say, I don’t deal with any of those. Maybe you’re never participated in an orgy and you’re like, yeah, I got that one down.

Uh, there participated in orgy. I don’t know anyone that has, so, uh, not part of culture today. Um, Not like it was out on the pollution. Yeah. Yeah. You could define all those and then going down to the list of the good things. No, I love people most of the time. You’re like, but you’re not willing to sacrifice for them.

So is it really love? I’m happy most of the time. And you’re like, yeah, until things get hard and joy just goes right out the window. And you’re like, yeah, I have patience some of the times with my kids, but you’re like, yeah, but not always. And we know that’s true because. Kids are a pain in the butt. Uh, there’s thinking soft control around 


Andrew: heart, right?

Josh: Yeah, right. Um, there’s, there’s a way to define all these things that puts yourself in a place where you think that yeah, I’m, I’m living Holy I’m living in, in align with God. Uh, and in all reality, you’ve tried to do on your own. Now, when we start to walk in the spirit, we start to foster relationship with Jesus.

You’ll be blown away at how much love you have for people. You’ll be blown away by how much joy you sit in. No matter the circumstance of life you’ll be, uh, Impressed with the piece and the patients that just overcome you, um, when you used to completely come unraveled, when certain things showed up, um, and it’s not has nothing to do with what you’ve been able to do other than the fact that you’ve fostered a relationship with Jesus.

You’re now walking in the spirit with Christ and all these things start to naturally come out of you because Jesus has guiding, and Jesus is leading now in the midst of that, does it mean there’s things you have to do? Yeah. 100%. You’re going to come into a situation. You’re going to talk to Jesus about it.

And Jesus is going to give you direct things that you should do in that situation. Yeah. You should do those things. If you choose not to do those things, and yet you’re not walking in the spirit and I’ll walk you with Jesus, but you’re not coming up with the things that you’re supposed to do. Jesus, Jesus is leading and this is the posture of humility in Christianity.

Hmm. I was talking with somebody, uh, yesterday or the day before. I can’t remember now, but, um, and we were talking about the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant or the Jewish scriptures and the Christian new Testament. Um, and how does, how do they compare and differ between the two?

Um, and in all reality, the old covenant, um, if we had to generalize and I know this is an unfair generalization, but for the sake of conversation, this conversation, I’m going to generalize in this way. It was really based on your ability to keep the law 100% workspace on you. That’s how you stay in favor of man.

When you didn’t, God gave it away for forgiveness and that will Sue sacrifices of, of, you know, pure animals, pure lambs. Um, so there, you know, there was still God’s grace in the midst of that, but in general, it was really built on this idea that you had to keep the law that good, good Jewish people kept the law.

Compared to now under the new covenant. Well, Jesus changed everything by going to the cross and dying for your sins and conquering death. Three days later, the game has been switched and it’s no longer built on our ability to obey. It’s built on God’s ability to transform us. Um, and that’s the difference.

That’s the grace of, of this relationship with Jesus. Are there a BDS pieces inside that relationship? Jesus, that you’re supposed to do 100%, but like God lead in those places. Don’t let you be the one that defined these things and become self-effort because that’s going to get exhausting and you know, it’s exhausting.

Cause you’ve been there as you’re listening to this, like I know you’ve been there because I’ve been there. Andrew’s been there. We’ve all tried to do it on our own or like, man, this Christianity thing sucks. It’s not full of lights. It’s not exciting. It’s not. Yeah. Right. Um, so there’s that piece of it.

There’s all this whole thing too, is when we walk in the spirit. Yeah. Avoid these things, do these things, but it’s really not up to us to do those things. It’s us to allow Jesus to work through it. Right. Like when Paul tells us that, you know, it’s no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me, it’s that idea.

Like, let Jesus be your source of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness. And self-control, I think I flipped some of that round, but, um, those were all of them. Yeah, that was my rant for you. So that’s a good 

Andrew: rant. That’s a good rant. And as you were going, I just started thinking, you know, back to the beginning of this chapter, like what it means to have freedom in Christ.

Like the reality of freedom is that you can choose. What you do, right? Um, like if you let’s say freedom just within Christianity, like you can, you can show up to whatever church you’re going to, and you can spend an hour and a half a week there, or whatever time you spend there looking really good. Like you can, you can look like you have a lot of love, a lot of joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control, like.

You can do that, you know, and maybe you leave the church and that’s not your life at all. It’s your, your life is more defined by like 19 through 21, you know, like it’s, it’s more of those things, but Christ like the, the sacrifice he made, uh, the Lord sent, sent Jesus to die on the cross, the gospel, like we’ve been talking about and then, uh, open handedly.

It was like, now have freedom live. Live how you’re going to live, choose what you’re going to choose, you know, um, and go from there. And, and these things are starkly different. Like, I guess what I’m trying to get at is that in the freedom that we find in our relationship with Christ and the freedom that we have in how we relate directly and have real relationship with the Lord is that we can walk away from God.

We can. And I don’t necessarily mean like eternally damned, like I’m. I don’t know, I’m not prepared to have that conversation. All, I mean is we can choose descend at any time we can choose to live in, in our flesh and our desires and the things that are lower than, than the things that God calls us to the fruit of the spirit is high minded.

It’s love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control against such things. There are no laws. I did because there can’t be any laws around that. It’s just higher. It doesn’t matter if you’re in a prison cell or if you’re doing some other great job, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing, what your life is.

You can choose those things, but they’re not just like simple, like throw on a smile. So you suddenly have joy. No, it’s a lot deeper than that, man. They’re like, they’re matters of the heart, you know? Um, and in 25 it says, since we live by the spirit, Let us keep in step with the spirit. Like. Living by the spirit is, is no joke.

Um, it’s, it’s not, I don’t know. I don’t know how to say it. I can’t like hold spirit out to you and say, this is what it is, Josh it’s right here. Um, it weighs this much. It’s by this it’s in the shape. No, but it’s like living by the things that are in the kingdom of God, the kingdom that’s here now that’s active now.

Um, Rather than, uh, living by the things that are like just material focused and just right now. And what, what gratifies this desire right now, those are the things of the flesh and the things of the spirit are higher and better, I guess, is all I’m trying to say. So we have the freedom to live in that or not, and I’d argue it’s always better to just choose to live in.

Actual love, actual joy, actual peace, and so on 

Josh: 20 better, you know, um, 

Andrew: makes for a more enjoyable life. Uh, but it’s not, not something you can fake, I guess, is all I’m trying to say. 

Josh: Yeah, well, in the fullness of life, um, you know, in John 10, 10, that Jesus talks about it’s found in relationship, right? Like it’s the fullness of relationship with God, the fullness of relationship with, with one another.

And as we look at both these lists of sins and these lists of the fruits of the spirit, like they’re all about relationship, right? Like, yes, there’s personal benefit to this. No joke, you know, Yeah, as we look at as well, like it benefits us to have more love, to have more joy, to have more patients and peace like yeah.

The, the benefits us. Um, but in all reality, it’s designed to benefit others. Cause that’s where the full life exists. Like I’m more, I have more peace and I have more patience with people. Um, And it’s going to benefit them as I walk with Jesus. And that’s what 25 is talking about. Right? Like as we, we live by the spirit and keep it separate it’s relationship with Jesus foster relationship with Jesus, and then let Jesus lead.

That’s what it means to live in those things. Um, and when we live in those things or we live in that relationship with Christ, um, these are the fruits of those things. So. Yeah, we’ve talked about this before we met, he talked about last episode. Like if you’re able to take your life and look at your life today compared to six months ago, if you have more joy, peace, patience, uh, Uh, kindness, gentleness, goodness, uh, faithfulness and self-control then God is then God is at work like you’re aligned with, in relationship with Jesus.

You’re living by the spirit and you’re keeping in step or you’re keeping in, um, uh, you’re keeping a relationship with Jesus. He leads so in step with Jesus. Um, so you’re you’re, if there’s more sexual morality, there’s more impurity, there’s more a dollar tree. There’s more hatred. There’s more discourse, jealousy, and you saw your life and you’re not keeping in step with Jesus.

You’re not walking. The crazy here’s the crazy thing is Andrew was hinting to this earlier. Like you could be in, you could be in Sunday church every Sunday morning. Um, you could be in a Bible study or a small group every week. You could be serving somewhere using the gifts God has given you. And guess what?

None of those things matter. In the relationship with Jesus, um, there are tools to help you for that. Um, but they’re not the end goal like that. Isn’t the definition or the scorecard doing those things does not mean you’re winning. What means are winning is more love in your life for people there’s more joy in your life, in the face of circumstances, more peace and patience with people that you come in contact with that are going to help you in those areas that you’re serving, that you’re investing in, um, that you’re trying to do life.

People, but those aren’t the scorecards. And I think that’s often, I think that’s important for us to often look at, because I think too often the church and, and we do it because we’re trying to engage you. That’s why the church built, you know, that’s why we have you get serving. That’s why we want you inside of a small group.

Like they’re helpful tools for these things, but they’re not the end goal to these things. Right. And I think that’s oftentimes what we exactly, we think, Oh, this is what good Christians do. No, no, no, no people that are walking with Jesus. Quote unquote, good Christians have more love, have more peace, have more patients.

So use that as the. The guideposts that you’re, you’re basing your life off of. Um, and the solution. I know we’ve said this before. Isn’t a force yourself to have more love for people. Isn’t a white knuckle. It, so you have more joy or at least you seem to have more joy to, from an external perspective with people when life is hard.

Um, that’s not the point. The point is no, no, no. Go back to the basics, go back to verse 25 and walk in relationship with Jesus. Live by the spirit and let Jesus lead you to where he’s leading you. Being led by the spirit, keeping in step in this with a spirit like that’s, that’s the simplest way we can explain, you know, what God is trying to portray here.

And it’s, it’s important. It’s, it’s, it’s important for us as followers of Jesus to embrace our relationship with Jesus. So the sanctification process, the process of us becoming more like Jesus can happen and we can be these types of people. And I don’t know about you, but like shoot, having more patience in life.

That’s a win. Personally from a selfish standpoint, that’s a win to have more love and joy in life. That’s a way that from a selfish standpoint, but just think of the impact that you can have on those around you when these characteristics of your true right. You’re going to lead more people towards Jesus and towards this same experience in this life that you’ve experienced with Jesus.

Um, and now more people are going to live in us. As Andrew said, the kingdom, like this is how it feels. This is what the kingdom is supposed to look like here on earth until the kingdom was fully revealed. When, when Christ comes back, Um, but this is, this is the whole secret sauce to the whole thing is, um, can we walk in relationship with Jesus and then use these things as the guide marks on whether or not, um, I’m actually walking with Jesus.

Like what I’m doing is working, um, You know, in terms of, you know, when you say walk would use, that’s spending time reading is recorded word and what we call the Bible and that’s spending time in prayer. That’s intimate prayer, actual conversation with Jesus and not just a sterile a to do list that you’re supposed to accomplish.

That’s taking the time to fast, um, to, to remove yourself from. Uh, from essentially what’s going on around you so you can focus in on Jesus better. Um, it’s taking time to worship God, even when worship is hard. Um, that’s taking time to invest in the community, around you, the Christian community, the church around you.

Um, so they can experience the same thing, your experiences, you should disciple one another towards Jesus, right? Like. Those are the tools that we use to foster the attending church. Um, you know, serving all also spiritual, you know, spiritual disciplines. Um, but these are the things that we use to help foster a relationship with Jesus.

And that has to be the goal. Like I don’t do it because good Christians do it. I don’t do it because I want to be seen by other people as man that guy’s more Holy or more, you know, I do it because I’m trying to connect with Jesus on a deeper level. And that’s why I’m doing these things. And as that happens, Jesus is going to reveal parts of your life that he wants you to invest in and work on.

He’s going to reveal certain past pains and hurts that he wants you to overcome and deal with. He’s going to teach you how to do things a different way and in the new way. And you’re going to be blown away six months from now a year from now of how much love, how much more love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness.

And self-control you have in this life? 

Andrew: Yeah. So good. So true. Josh. I got to go in a few minutes. I’m sorry about that. But I was looking back at these verses and realized, um, It’s like the answer to all of the, in my mind, you know, there’s a million ways you can interpret this, but the answer to this, like verse 16, like this whole white knuckling of, of Christianity that you, and I’ve talked about a lot of times of like, Oh, I just got to change this habit and meet here.

And. Put this there and do this thing and pray three times a day and set an alarm for that and, you know, install the software and do this, that like you can create a million rules on how to white knuckle stuff. But the reality is you’re still thinking about the desires of the flesh a million times a day, you know, with all those things, um, They can be helpful tools to reset, uh, kind of patterns in your life and habits and all of that.

But, but if you’re living in the flesh, then you’re going to struggle with the desires of the flesh. Let, let me change and not say if you’re living. Um, let me just say, when I am living in the desires of the flesh, I’m going to struggle with things that are sin when I’m living in the spirit, as I should be.

I struggle with them a whole lot less. It’s a lot easier to just look right past setting, um, and focus on the things that honor God. Um, but first 16 it just says, so I say walk by the spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh for the flesh desires. What is contrary to the spirit and the spirit?

What is contrary to the flesh? They’re in conflict with each other so that you are not to do whatever you want, but if you’re led by the spirit, you are not under the law, the gear above the law. When you walk in the spirit, when you walk in the fruit of the spirit as defined a little further down, and we’ve been talking about you.

Don’t struggle with the desires of the flesh in the same way. And honestly, other than just not sending in the same way, not saying we’re perfect, but at least send less. Um, it’s a lot easier to be in God’s will when you’re living in the spirit. Um, Every day that the reality is you you’re able to do the things of God.

You know, you’re able to, to live as someone who looks a little more like Jesus each day and week and month and year, then if you’re just in like the muck and the mire of fi fighting against the fleshly material desires of this life, you know, um, I don’t know how else to say it. Like you have a chance to be impactful for the kingdom when you’re living out of the spirit versus kind of just being like fighting with level one, I guess not even level one, just like the, I don’t know, fighting with things that, that Christ has already given us freedom from that we just can’t.

We, we aren’t willing to accept freedom from, I guess, um, I don’t know, man, that’s that’s my thoughts is just 16, 17, and 18 are just like so strong with this whole thing in mind. Um, but freedom’s hard to keep a hold of, I guess, because it’s not, it’s not like you just choose it once and then you suddenly live in the fruit of the spirit forever.

It’s like, no, it’s like a daily and moment by moment kind of choice, you know, of like, well, Um, yeah, I’m loving. Am I still gonna be loving? When my toddler slaps me in the face, I’ve had that happen. It’s like, you got to choose it in that moment. It’s like, might I’m going to choose to show this little child love, you know?

Yes, I’m going to choose it, but, but it’s not something you just make a choice one day on and never think about again, you know, but if you. Start going back and forth and waffling. And like, I don’t know, I’m pretty angry. I want to express that anger. It’s like pretty soon you’re back into like the muck and mire of like this material.

Struggle, I guess of just you’re in the flesh. I don’t know how else to say it. That’s all I got, man. That’s, that’s my thoughts on that and that’s my random, uh, random rant. 

Josh: Nice, nice. Uh, I think I have two more thoughts, but if you gotta go, you gotta go and I’ll just keep going. But, um, I love you, my friend, if you do take off.

Andrew: Sweet. Thanks man. 

Josh: Um, I think too, like, um, as, as Andrew goes and takes care of his, his children that slap him in the face, um, there’s this piece to that that comes into play, uh, that, that I think is important. And like Andrew said, it’s 16. Um, I think 16 summed up in 15 since we live by the spirit. Let us keep in step with the spirit, walk in relationship with Jesus, let Jesus lead in the midst of that relationship.

Um, but even using Andrew’s example, as you know, your infant. Your kid slapping you in the face. I’m like, why does that piss you off? Well, it’s because it’s disrespectful, right? But if we had a, a, a posture of humility as Jesus is, is shaping into us, that becomes a lot less of, of a, a slap in the face for lack of a better cliche.

Um, But if I had a more humility in that moment, I’m not angry and hurt or disrespected. I’m just, you know, humans are humans and this is what humans do. Um, and you know, I have a different posture, a different perspective to that because I’ve chosen to walk with Jesus. And in the midst of walking with Jesus, he’s dealt with the junk of my life.

Um, because right. Pride is the thing that, that comes between us and Christ and becomes, becomes between us and. Each other, um, and you only see it comes to between us and each other. And in the first part of this section and 13 through 15, right? Like 15 says, if you bite and devour each other, watch out, or you’ll be dis you’ll destroy, be, be destroyed by each other.

Um, like if we’re not dealing with, um, Dying to self dying to our ways, our thought patterns, our sin, and allowing Jesus to work in that and becoming more and more like Christ. Um, yeah, of course. We’re gonna not have love peace patients. Of course, we’re going to deal with the sins of 19 and 21. Like, because we’re not walking in the spirit, we’re not letting Jesus lead in those moments, but why do we do all these things?

Yes. Life is easier. That’s why we do them. Um, life’s not easier in the sense of like, everything’s going my way, but we have the tools and we’ve dealt with our past in such a way that, yeah. Things aren’t going to throw us off and shake us up as much. But we also do it for the sake of those around us, especially those around us that don’t know Jesus.

Or do you know Jesus, but don’t know how to live in the freedom of Jesus. Um, and this goes back to, uh, verse, uh, 13, 14 and 15. And I’ll just read these again. I think we read these last week, but I’ll read them for you. I’m you? My brothers and sisters, we were called to be free. Don’t use your freedom to indulge in the flesh rather to serve one another humbly in love.

The entire law is fulfilled by keeping this one command, love your neighbor as yourself. Now, if you bite into very each other, watch out and you’ll destroyed by one another. Let’s look at just Christian circles. So your Christian community, the church. Does your Christian community church look more like biding and Navarro each other.

This is talking behind each other’s back. This is gossip. Uh, this is, um, um, lack of the fruits of the spirit in your life. And you’re just starting to see the, so the opposite of all those words, there’s no, there’s no life-giving environments. There’s no peace. So you’re constantly looking out to, to attack one another or it’s full, you know, you’re full of envy.

Um, you’re full of conceit, uh, and you’re constantly, um, Backbiting with one another, like what person would ever want to be in that type of environment? Um, nobody does. And oftentimes with those coming into the church, they come to salvation. They, they, they learn of this gospel of what Jesus did for them.

They’re blown away by it. They want to be a part of this community. That’s about that. And then they start to experience this biting and devouring of one another and they’re out. They want no part of it, but if you were this, um, uh, This verse 14 in their life that you chose to love one another, as you love yourself, and you start to practice verse 22, the fruits of the spirit, um, as Jesus does those things in you and through you like, yeah, everyone wants to be a part of that kind of relationship or that kind of environment, that kind of group that’s life-giving, that’s exciting.

That’s man, I don’t see that in the world. I want to be a part of, of a relationship that, where I’m going to get. Built up or I’m going to get invested in where I’m going to see where people are going to see the potential in me, rather than my past failures. I’m there, where people are going to speak life into me.

I’m always you. Of course, you want to be a part of that relationship and others do too. Um, and I think so often we think that it’s not up to us and yes, it’s not up to us in the sense that we have to be love peace, patience. That’s that’s God’s job. Um, But we also don’t take the time to let God do those things inside of us.

Um, so we can portray those characteristics of who God is, right? Cause God has love. God is joy. God is peace. God is patient. God is kind of like, these are just characteristics of God that God is instilling in us. And I can’t stress it enough. Um, Andrew, if he was still here, couldn’t stress it enough. Uh, verse 25 walk.

Since we live by the spirit, since we walk in relationship with Jesus, uh, let us keep in step with the spirit, let us keep letting Jesus lead. Um, and when we start to see more of, um, the, the list of 19 and 20 and less than the list of 22 and 23, we’re not walking in the spirit. We’re not walking in relationship with Jesus and may, we’re still practicing.

The same spiritual disciplines are Jesus habits. Um, but we’re not doing them for the sake of relationship. So we’re doing them all in vain. Pointless waste of time, um, or, or, or we’re walking through things, but Jesus giving us clear next steps in some certain areas. And we’re choosing not to deal with those steps.

We’re choosing it and acting like Jesus never told us. And now we’re living in disobedience, the whole Christian, the whole Christian faith, the whole new covenant, the whole new Testament is about humility saying I can’t do it on my own. That’s it not up to me. It’s not to my ability. It’s saying I can’t do it on my own.

Can’t do it on your own for salvation. Um, there’s nothing that you can do. There’s no, there’s you can’t be, um, So good then better than everyone else, and still find a forgiveness and restoration of relationship. Sin is sin. Sin creates separation, no matter how small the sin, no matter a great the sin it’s creating separation.

Um, Jesus had to go to the cross. He had to take your sins and my sins on himself. He had to die in our place. He had to be that sacrifice, um, to restore relationship and to give us new life with God himself. But it’s also true of our sanctification process. I can’t do it on my own. God’s ways are better than my ways, but walk with Jesus to figure out what those ways are.

It’s not up to you to say, well, I’m going to be, uh, all the fruits of the spirit and I’m going to avoid all these acts of the flesh. You’re not gonna be able to do it. You might be able to convince yourself you’ve done it, but in all reality, if you really define it, it’s not true. Um, you still have hatred, uh, it still plays itself out.

Um, you still have, uh, sexual morality that comes into play. There’s definitely a dollar tree, no doubt about it. Um, in your life, um, there’s still selfish ambition. There’s still, uh, fractions. You’ve created the still envy, um, in the like, Uh, we can create new definitions for all those words, but if we really look at just what those words are, and as Jesus described them, right?

Like if I even have a little bit of hate in my heart for, for my brother, I’ve murdered him, I’ve committed a sin against that command. Um, but. When we walk with Jesus, when we foster a relationship with Jesus, when we let me foster a relationship to be as be the most important thing of her life, I promise you as Jesus leads, as Jesus asks you to do this and do that, they may seem like little things, insignificant things, but you may be blown away by, by what they are.

And they may be, feel like terrifying things. You’re like, God, I can’t open myself up in that way or God, I don’t want to deal or talk about that event that has happened in my life or those events that have happened in my life. Um, I don’t want to keep in step, um, take a risk. Be vulnerable and tell Jesus what you’re feeling about those things.

Don’t just stop with a no, God, I don’t want to do it. Say God, I’m terrified about doing that. Here’s all the fears that are running through my head about doing that specific thing. Um, whatever they happen to be, have the vulnerable, intimate conversation with God about it. And I promise you, God will walk with you in it because I know God’s character, right.

Yeah. When we look at w we look at the story of Moses, well, God told Moses to go to Pharaoh and demand a let you know the Jewish people go. And what was Pharaoh’s response back or, sorry, what was Moses’s response back? Moses was the, God, I can’t do this. I don’t speak well. And what did Jesus do? What did God do?

He gave him his brother, aunt. Aaron almost called the manager, um, to speak on his behalf. God will meet you where you are, and God will get you to where he wants you to go. As long as you keep in step with him. So talk about your fears, talk about why you don’t think you can accomplish whatever you think you can accomplish.

Let him speak confidence and truth into your life. So you have some, you have some, uh, strength in the midst of that to take on whatever happens to be, or let him give you smaller action steps to get you to the big action step. That’s what it means to walk in relationship with Jesus. That’s what it means to keep in step with the spirit and letting Jesus lead.

You’ll be blown away by how much life change happens in your heart, in your mind, how you behave, how you interact with one another and fruits of the spirit will become more and more true of your life. And fruits of the spirit. Going back to verse 14 are extremely attractive to people around you. They want to be around people that are full of love, pull a full of joy, full of peace, full of patients, full of kindness, full of goodness, full of faithfulness, full of gentleness and full of self-control.

And you want to be around those people too, but someone has to start in your community, living these things out, and we live them out by fostering relationship with Jesus. So we can do the work in my heart and in your heart to. To allow these things to be true of us more and more. Um, don’t miss it since we live by the spirit.

Let us keep in step with the spirit, walk in relationship with Jesus and let Jesus lead. You’ll be well in a way, six months from now of how much more fruits of the spirit exists and how much less than  flesh exists. I don’t say this because this is what good Christian say, or this is a good Christian message.

I say this because I live it. And I’ve lived walking in relationship with Jesus and I’ve seen the proof of these things. I have more love, more joy, more peace, more patience with people today than I’ve ever had in my life. Do I have a long ways to go 100%? Jesus is still at work. Um, but I have more of it today and it has nothing to do with my ability to have those things.

And everything to do with my ability to foster relationship with Jesus follow Jesus lead as he led and the things started to change. So that’s my, my encouragement to you go spend time with Jesus. It’s been awhile. Start right now. Stop the podcast that’s over anyways, but stop the podcast. Start a conversation with Jesus and be honest and open God.

I don’t think I could have love God. I don’t think I can give up this sin. God, I don’t think I can have patience with the people around me. God, I have too short of whatever it is. Start to have those conversations with Jesus. Start to read, God’s recorded word in relationship with Jesus saying, Jesus, what do you have to tell me today?

And Jesus, what should I do about these things? So I can live these things you’re telling me out. It’s that simple. I know it seems too simple, but it promise you as someone that’s been living it this way, intentionally for the last two years, I am someone that loves people more, has more joy. I want to be the place where hope lives.

I want to be a place where, uh, Love for one another is the characteristic that’s at play because that’s attractive and that’s going to encourage more people into the kingdom. That’s going to encourage more people into your community, and then they get to live with this hope. They get to live with this full life.

Um, just like you’ve been able to explore variance. So verse 25, again, since we live by the spirit, let us keep in step with the spirit. It’s the key verse to all of this. I think. It’s about our relationship with Jesus foster, your relationship with Jesus and let him lead do it his way rather than your own way.

And you’ll be blown away by how much change happens in your life, because he is shaping you into who he’s called you to be. Hey, thanks for listening. We love you. We are praying for you and we thank you for journeying with us along this journey. Um, if you’re in the Colorado Springs area, um, we are planting a church Hill city church and go to Hill, to get more information on.

We have another gathering, um, coming up in July and get some food and hear a little bit more about our vision. Um, but that will show up on the website, We’d love for you to be a part of it. Um, thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week. 

Andrew: Thanks for listening to our show. It really means a lot to us, and we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus 

Josh: and with other people.

And it also helps us out. If you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening, you can also follow us on Instagram and the Facebook. Now sharing this with your friends. Isn’t just to get the word out of the podcast. We believe that we have the message of hope that’s found in the gospel of Jesus Christ and you sharing.

This has the ability to transform the lives of the people around you. We want to hear 

Andrew: from you. You can email You can message us on Facebook and Instagram, or you can just visit But seriously, thanks for this. .

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