Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name’s Josh. 

Andrew: Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast. Josh, how you doing my 

Josh: friend, dude, I’m doing fantastic. Cannot complain these days. Good. 

Andrew: We had a few technical difficulties and I had to fix a sprinkler, which I’m not sure I actually fixed, uh, before 

Josh: you went 

Andrew: to go fix this.

Yeah. To turn my, my, where I’ve picked up this $5, like a spider sprinkler, but these like, you know, like the. Uh, at car dealerships, how they have like those dancing guys, that air blows into them, like basically like those arms except the Waterfield stuff and the spider’s legs are supposed to go crazy. Um, but I don’t think it’s actually working.

So anyway, I was trying to do that and, uh, I don’t. No, if it worked or not, but you know, a for effort, 

Josh: all we can do is try 

Andrew: that’s right. Uh, yeah, man, you having a good week. 

Josh: I am. I’m tired. I think I had a pretty eventful dream. I don’t remember really all the details of the stream. I just remember being adventurous.

So I think I’m tired from sleeping. That’s that’s kind of the day that I’m having to hire. Sure what to do with that 

Andrew: with, with two little kids, tired from sleeping, sounds like the dream, uh, to me, like I just slept so much and so well, I’m tired from it and I could really go for a 

Josh: nap. That’s like when you take a nap in the afternoon and you’re like, you did it just a little too long.

And now you’re exhausted 

Andrew: oriented for the day. 

Josh: Is today still today? What is going on here? 

Andrew: Isn’t that the weirdest thing when you wake up and you’re like, what day is it now? Like, I don’t know who, where I am 

Josh: anymore. You’re like a solid three to five minutes where you’re just like, ah, I know I’m awake or I think I’m awake.

I’m just getting my bearings here for a second. Just give me a few. Uh, I’ll catch up here in a moment. 

Andrew: Totally, man. It’s like a system restart on a computer. Yeah. Napped for a long time during the day when I was in Colorado. Um, you know, this Josh, but I’ve worked from home for a long time. And when we lived in Colorado, I had a, um, little like.

Devil like little couch, basically. Um, in my office, dude, I, in one season I got accustomed to like short 15 to 20 minute naps on that thing, um, in the middle of the Workday and it was awesome. Um, there was one day where I woke up like an hour after it planned to wake up. And was just totally disoriented and then looked at my calendar and I had like three or four zoom calls starting like a minute from, I was like, that was a horrible, they 

Josh: were still out of it.

Hey, hi. Why are we meeting? 

Andrew: And they were ones that I had planned and I was leaving and stuff like just not ideal. Uh, 

Josh: I would, this was out a couple of weeks ago. There was a meeting with a bunch of different departments. Um, and apparently I was like the focus of the meeting, which I didn’t know before going into the meeting, nobody told me it just shut up calendar.

So I was like, I supposed to be there, but I went and grabbed some food late. And then I’d take my dog for a walk and I just didn’t realize what time it was. So my boss texts me. He’s like, Hey dude, you gonna jump in this meeting. I was like, oh shoot. Yeah, give me, give me just a couple minutes. I’ll run back inside.

So I run inside. I’m now, like, I don’t know, five, 10 minutes late to jump on. The first question is like, Hey, Josh, just kind of introduce yourself to everybody else. And there’s like 15, 20 people. And then they proceeded to just ask me a bunch of questions. And I was like, 

Andrew: wow, that’s 

Josh: brutal. Oh, thanks that wasn’t fired.

No one, no one got rid of me cause it wasn’t paying attention, but let’s be honest. 

Andrew: They were just, uh, they were basically just like, okay, who can we replace Josh with? We need to ask him all these questions and uh, 

Josh: what this meeting is going to be. And you’re 

Andrew: like, sorry, you guys are going to cheeseburger.

And I was taking my dog for a walk and they were like, Can we move up to the firing? Like, can we let them go 

Josh: this for you? Strike three already. Holy crap. 

Andrew: Ah, that’s funny. That’s funny, man. Yeah, no, thankfully, uh, no nap today. Uh, so no, I, I am semi focused, uh, after fixing the sprinkler. 

Josh: That’s fair. The one.

Now you feel like you’ve accomplished something, you fixed a sprinkler today, so that’s a window. 

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, I put it in a solid effort. I don’t know if I fixed it, but I did what I could. Uh that’s for sure. 

Josh: Yeah. Mean, we can ask for these days, especially in Pennsylvania where you guys are still locked down and you have no freedom, right?

Andrew: Exactly. Might as well be in China, you know? Yeah, but dude, speaking of speaking of freedom, uh, 

Josh: uh, 

Andrew: it was like, how do I do this? Speaking of freedom, how are we, uh, what are we doing today in, uh, in Galatians? Cause I know we’re talking about the gospel. Um, but what’s going on in part two, 

Josh: a lot about the gospel as we go through Galatians.

Yes. We will be bringing it up constantly because that’s really the point of all. Paul is trying to get across to the churches. Uh, angulation is. He stopped adding things to this gospel, stop trying to manipulate and change it. Anyone that’s doing that to you tell them to stop it, but you better stop it, doing it to other people as well.

Um, and I think that’s going to be kind of our focus day. So we’re in Galatians chapter two. Um, we’re going to skip some verses in there. We never said we’re going to go through every verse. That’s up to you and Jesus, you should just read your Bible, um, in relationship, of course, with Christ, not just reading for reading sake, but um, we’re going to skip the end of one.

In the beginning of two and really all it’s getting covered in those verses is Paul is just defending his position and his gospel. Well, it should say Christ gospel that he has been preaching. Um, and he’s kind of laying that out there. We read over it and it’s great for the context of Paul’s authority to speak on the topic, uh, but not super applicable to applying it to our own lives.

Um, at least not with like, Twisting some things and just pulling little bits of it out of context. But so we figured, well, let’s just keep moving and we can definitely apply this next set of verses to, um, to our lives. So this is, uh, collations chapter two, starting with verse 11. If you have the NIV, the section titles, Paul opposes CFUs switch, like.

Yeah, which starts out with like when Cetus came to Antioch and India. Cause we’re Paul spent a lot of his time. Um, I opposed him to his face. Paul writes to the Galatians because he stood condemned and we read that verse before we started recording. And I think Andrew had a really good point. Um, we need to bring more fire and brimstone just into Christianity.

There’s not enough. 

Andrew: Yeah. And Josh said, we need to really step up our condemnation game. Yeah. 

Josh: Like I think we’re just not doing it enough, 

Andrew: right? Not nearly, 

Josh: uh, we’re going to actually spend the next chunk of time on our podcast. Just creating a list of people that we publicly condemned. Yeah. For a variety of reasons, it might not be gospel names in general.

Yeah. We’re going to give you their phone numbers. We’re going to give you their addresses and you know, you know how you know what to do with them. You know, you you’ve been around the block. You’ve seen cancel culture plates off out. We just need you to do that as well. Right. So Andrew, why don’t you start with the first two names and then I’ll come with the next team?

Andrew: Uh, no chance. No chance. Oh man. Yeah. It’s it is funny though, to see Paul like be so straight up in the face of the CIF, his character, I don’t know much about him. Um, but yeah, I mean, there is something to say for being, um, Like fervent for the gospel truth, you know, and, and being like, no, I’m going to make sure the right gospel is preached and that there’s not all this stuff added to it.

Um, and apparently CFUs was a big piece of what was. Adding to the gospel and kind of, I say adding to the gospel, but what I really mean is like putting chains around people, um, rather than liberating people with the gospel truth. So, um, yeah man, I don’t know. I don’t think we should actually up our condemnation game and I don’t think we should, uh, spend chunks of the podcast doing a public condemnation, um, that could change, you know, always open to changes, but, um, Yeah, 

Josh: it was totally like this Instagram post I just created with the list of names.

It should shouldn’t post it. Is that you’re saying, 

Andrew: oh shoot, you already posted it, man. I probably 

Josh: did you follow me? You’ve now seen my condemnation list. Just what we’re going to come. The number was gonna be, 

Andrew: are we about to talk publicly? 

Josh: I don’t know. This is awkward. 

Andrew: And then we 

Josh: go from here. Um, No. Uh, but so essentially what’s happening in these verses.

If you haven’t taken the time to read the them again, read them in relationship with Jesus and spend some time with Christ, expecting Christ to speak to your heart in the midst of these things. But essentially the story that’s happening here is, um, when  showed it to Antioch, Paul saw it. A point to correct an incorrect gospel, um, that CIF is, was teaching.

And this is really the only time we see Paul condemn. Anyone. We saw this in the last chapter as well. Didn’t we, this type of language, not, not this specific combination, but like, like God’s wrath Kersey or something like that. I can’t remember who it was, but. Um, but it’s always surrounding gospel. Right?

And we, we described the gospel this week. It’s described in first Corinthians 15, Paul describes the gospel. The gospel is Christ, crucified Christ resurrected. It’s the foundation of Christianity, um, which I know can. Be difficult. Cause someone thought it was the Bible, but it’s not. Uh, the foundation of Christianity is that Jesus went to the cross as the sacrifice for, for sins to restore relationship between God and God’s creation, humanity.

Um, he conquered death three days later, so we can do the same and follow him in that process. Um, That is the foundation of everything that we believe now, scripture is great in the sense of it’s the recorded word of God. And we have, you know, the actual account of all those things happening in Christ, in the gospels, Matthew, mark, Luke, John.

Um, and it’s a beautiful thing that we have in our hands. It’s not just oral tradition where we’ve passed it down from generation generation, but we had the eyewitnesses of the day, uh, write it down. And now we have a record of, of what happened during that time. But, um, the foundation is, is. Christ crucified Christ resurrected.

Um, and when we start adding things to that is the only time that Paul really starts to push against in a pretty harsh, in a pretty strict way, uh, because it’s, it’s the, everything to our faith. And if you’re teaching something opposite of that, it can cause a lot of anxious and cause a lot of frustration, it causes a lot of burdens of people that are trying to follow something that isn’t.

So in this case, CFUs, uh, issue was. You know, he was requiring Gentiles. Those that weren’t Jews that came to know Christ to follow Jewish customs. Like that was what he was preaching. Um, we see the same argument between Paul and Peter in acts. Right. Um, and the funny thing is it’s a similar, um, the similar, um, Rebuke as well.

Like this is Galatians two verse 14 towards the end of 14. Um, it says, well, I said to CFUs in front of them all. Oh, uh, he says you’re a Jew. Yeah. You live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish traditions or true Jewish customs. And it just this moment of like, dude, like you’re telling people they need to be circumcised.

You’re telling people they need to stop eating pork or certain foods, or you’re telling people that they need to practice these festivals and these traditions, um, and yet want you don’t do them yourself. You live in the freedom that’s found in Christ. And yet you’re throwing all these things on top of other people around you.

And I think, um, I think for our conversation today, I think that’s a great thing to focus in on, um, you know, what are, what are the things or the requirements or the wanted behaviors that you’re placing on other Christians, um, that isn’t gospel. Um, and now you’re creating a burden on them that shouldn’t be a burden on them.

Um, 

Andrew: and it, it’s a great point. Um, and. Yeah. And let me, as you were talking, I remembered from last week, we we’d been texting a little bit after the episode and. Um, if you remember Josh, we were talking about kind of like the role of basically what is the real, what is the true gospel? And it’s like Baird form, you know, what is it?

And, um, if you don’t know, or you haven’t heard go back and listen to it. Maybe we’ll talk about it more in a minute. But, um, we were talking about adding things to the gospel, um, in a similar context to this and started talking about some current examples of things that. In your life and in my life have at times become things that we focused on much more than the gospel or, or maybe not more than, but more than we should have, you know?

And I was talking about like Dr. Jordan Peterson and like his work and his videos and book and all kinds of things, um, that, that had kind of cropped up to a point in my life where I was thinking way more about that. Then about, um, my relationship with the Lord. And I don’t know, we kind of danced around that and talked about that and talked about the idea of like, when you’re elevating that are the Enneagram or this one preacher or this one thing so much that you start to make that.

Part of the gospel of like, oh, okay. You, like, you asked to start real relationship with Jesus. Like you prayed and you accepted, um, what he did the sacrifice on the cross life. Now, now you should go and take the Enneagram. Now you should go read this book by Jordan Peterson on the 12 rules for life are 12 more rules, whatever his new book is, you know?

And, uh, I was thinking about it, like, I think the, the heart of what makes those issues. Really dangerous, even if it’s this, this, Hey CFUs, you’re asking Gentiles to live like Jews, even when you aren’t. Um, aren’t a living like a do yourself. I think at some level it’s it’s idolatry, man. It’s like, you are.

Putting something in the space of God and of the good news and the gospel that is not, God is not the good news and is not the gospel. Um, you know, I dunno if that makes sense, but I think it’s on the level of like idolatry and, and I don’t think, like, I think we, we always think of idolatry. Yeah, sorry.

I’m totally taking us down a tangent, but maybe it’ll play right back in. Um, I always think of idolatry with like, you know, old Testament, like started worshiping ball bail. However you say it it’d be a L you know, and like sacrificing children and like doing all these things that. We read and it’s like, that’s blatantly terrible and wrong.

And like, you traded out God for the re for a false God, you know? Um, and, but I think idolatry is the slow creep of anything in your life that then becomes the gospel. Um, or becomes your God, I should say. Um, but I think in, in when you are a Christ follower that might look like things you’re adding to the gospel and you’re putting more and more weight on and more and more thought into, and then you just slowly drift away from Jesus slowly, drift away from your relationship with the Lord and start connecting.

Everything you are and everything you think through the lens of something that isn’t God, you know? Um, so that’s my thought, my, my recap, uh, or my call back to, to last episode, um, is I feel like the right word hit me about 24 hours after we recorded. And I think it is idolatry, man. Um, In one way or another?

Josh: Well, it is like, because even going back to the Israelites, you know, um, around, you know, sitting around Mount Sinai, like what ends up happening is they think that God’s ways just aren’t enough, so we need to do something else. Right. Um, so it’s, we need to build these altars so we can be like the other pagans or you continue through Jewish history and it’s, well, we need a king because other others have Kings and we need to be like others, like at some point along the way, God just stopped being enough, their relationship, um, and being the chosen people of God, which just wasn’t enough.

So they have to add to it. Um, and then, you know, they, it goes even to the temple, God never wanted the temple. Right. Um, and digging into that of like, well, they want to tell him because everyone else had a temple, they wanted their physical representation of their God. And God’s like everywhere. This is why the tabernacle was so important.

I’m, I’m mobile. I’m around. I’m not stuck in one building. Um, so there’s that piece of it too. So I think we still do the same thing, whether we’re Jews or Gentiles, it doesn’t matter. Um, at some point along the way, God’s just not enough. The gospel is not enough for my salvation. It’s not enough for me to continue to live in this life.

So I have to find other things to fill that gap. Um, and I think that’s where we get in a lot of trouble. I’m just trying to think, like, even like, you know, it’s certain individuals voices in your lives, whether yeah. Like you said, gene Peterson or a preacher, or even maybe your counselor, um, like these are all good things.

Um, in the grand scheme of things like, you know, Eugene Peterson is teaching, you know, gospel truth and a lot of ways he’s teaching, you know, Scriptural truth and otherwise, um, you know, preachers, I would hope is the same. And if it’s a Christian counselor, I’d hope that’s the same, but the second that they elevate in your mind to anything else, or you elevate it for someone else, you ended up in this place that, you know, we’re.

I’m a part of a network of churches, that’s called the relational citation network. And we have a model of, of doing church. Um, and in the midst of that, you know, that model can become your God if you’re not too careful, right? Like your model can be worshiped. And this is for any church, but your model can be worshiped as this is, you know, This is the, the next bee’s knees.

This is going to change everything. Um, and you miss God in the midst of that. And you’re like, even if you do change people, it’s pointless. Um, even if you do try to provide hope for people, um, you’re now providing a false sense of hope because it’s an empty hope. It’s not based on Christ and, and Christ sacrifice.

Um, and when we miss all that, then, then we end up in the same place that, that. Um, CFUs is in, we end up at the same place that, um, the, the Jews were in, um, as they walk with God before the coming of Christ, um, that we’re trying to do something. And now we’re creating a separation, like you said, an a dollar tree between us and God, because we’ve turned our focus away from God towards something else.

Um, and I think it’s important to like, to get us back to the topic at hand. And like, um, when we look at our. When we look at our behavior, um, like let’s step back a little bit more, I guess, like you have influence over people, you just do. Um, you have influence over your friends, you have influence over your children, you have influence, um, over, uh, employees, you have influence, there’s a variety of different ways that you have influence in this life.

Whether you have authority over them or not, it doesn’t really matter. You do have influence over a ton of people, right. And what you do with that influence really matters. So when it comes to Christianity and walking with Christ, um, when you add things onto the plate, um, for those individuals, um, and I’m saying like, you’re.

You know, you’re saying, like you were saying like, oh, now that you’ve found the gospel, you should read this book from, you know, from this preacher or whatever. Um, like you gotta be really careful about how you present those things as tools. Um, and I think this is where the church in general gets off track is we present these things cause they’re helpful.

And, you know, they come from a good heart and a good place in the sense of, you know, we think it’s important. We think it’s helpful to explain a certain theological idea, whatever the reason is. We’re giving them this book. Um, But if we’re not really careful to connect it back to the gospel, um, we’ve missed something, right?

There’s a famous quote out there by Charles Spurgeon. Um, Charles Spurgeon was a preacher, um, in the early 19 hundreds, I think it was early 19 hundreds. Now I’m questioning, um, I’m pretty, I’m almost positive. Um, But he said, you know, no matter what I preach, I make a beeline back to the cross. Um, and I think there should be the same of our lives, no matter what I’m doing, no matter what I’m saying, I should always making a beeline back to the cross and it should be living the gospel always.

Um, Because it one, it it’s foundational to me and my faith. So I walk into, to walk with Christ and the freedom that’s found in Christ and his gospel. Um, but two, I want others to do the same and I don’t want to put unfair burdens on them that God never intended for to be on them. Um, 

Andrew: yeah, man. One of the, that, that I make a beeline back to God, Charles Spurgeon.

Um, no matter what I say, uh, or preach, I make a beeline back to God. Like that’s pretty awesome. And that’s a good to the cross. Sorry. That’s a, that’s a good focus. Um, that, like, that’s a thing that can keep you on track, right? Um, especially if you’re influencing others through the lens of, of preaching, but really however you’re influencing.

Um, it’s an important thing to be like, am I leading towards the cross or am I leading towards me? Um, and I was just thinking about like CFUs and, and Paul talks about this often of like, you are. Making Gentiles get circumcised, um, basically to show, Hey, I’m a Christian. Um, I’m a, I’m a Christ follower now.

And I’m going to like step back into this Jewish tradition of getting circumcised. And I’m going to choose to do that, to show how, how devoted I am and. You know, this was, this was a prime example of like this thing being added to being a follower of Christ and being elevated to gospel of like, if you want to be a real Christ follower, it’s not just about the heart.

You got to do this physical action too. Um, because the Jews were the people that, um, Jesus came through, you know, they were, God’s chosen people. Um, But like thinking about the action of, you know, literally getting circumcised, it is a, a thing that like, I could understand how somebody could come preaching that level of you got to go do this thing.

And then the people who are really zealous and who are bought in, um, and maybe aren’t as, as mature, deep, you know, brand new followers of Christ, they’re just like, yeah. I’m going to do that. Like I’m going to do, I’m going to basically get this surgery. I’m going to undergo lots of physical pain. I’m going to be able to not work for a few days.

I’m going to be on the laying down, you know, like hurt, uh, for a while as I recover. And it’s like this. It almost just replaces the need to change the heart when you can do something. That’s like, I physically sacrificed in such a way that it makes me a real follower of Christ, you know? Um, so. All I’m saying is I guess that I could understand how this was spreading and the house was becoming a thing because it’s like, no, no, the true believers like CIF has, might’ve been Zen, like the true believers.

If you want to take it one step further, it’d be even closer in your relationship with the Lord. You got to get sacrificed because that was part of the Jewish tradition. And we know the people, uh, the Jewish people, when their traditions came from God, like that was. Uh, there’s a big history there. So anyway, but to me, it’s like almost taking advantage of the zealous and the people who aren’t as mature.

And, and there was same way you were talking about like, okay, you just accepted Christ. Here’s this book about other stuff that you should know. And pretty soon you’re like following that author and hanging on every word that they say. Because you’re like, my church told me this is the next step, you know, that’s that’s all I know is like, I got to read this thing and memorize it.

And there’s all these quotes that make so much sense to me and pan this guy. I want to be like this guy, if I want to follow God, like, that’s what I need to do. Um, and you start replacing. The gospel with an author or with the physical act of getting circumcised. And I don’t think the problem has changed that much.

I 

Josh: think it’s just maybe a little different context. Yeah. And like, I get the struggle in the sense that like yeah, if the gospel is simply that in, all I have to do, as Christ said is, you know, believe in my heart that Jesus is Lord and confess my lips. Um, and I’ll be saved like. Yeah, there doesn’t seem like a lot in all honesty in comparison to the sins that I’ve committed, um, the things that I’ve done.

Um, yeah, th that doesn’t seem like that’s enough. Um, and that’s just poor view of, of the sacrifice of Christ and what that looked like. Um, but. For you. Yeah, it isn’t a lot. Um, that’s, it’s literally, uh, you know, you believe that Jesus, his who said he wasn’t dead, what he said he was going to do. And then he conquered death.

Like that is the gospel. And now it’s my life following Christ because this is what he’s done for me. Um, I get the tension that people run into. Like that can’t be enough, you know, this is why you get into the debate about, well, if you don’t speak in tongues, you’re, you’re not a Christian. Yeah. Yeah.

You’re, you’re adding to the gospel. I’m sorry. Um, we won’t get into the tongues debate in general, but like, from that perspective, you’re 100% wrong. Um, like that isn’t a sign of, of gospel truth because. Accepting the gospel is pretty simple. It’s believing in your heart that Jesus is the son of God that when he said he was gonna do and died in your place for the forgiveness for your sins.

And you confess that with, with your mouth. So you have to say it out loud that Jesus is Lord. And that’s it. Um, adding anything else to that, you have a problem. Um, and you know, as you continue to flesh out your relationship with Jesus, after coming to know Jesus, and it’s so easy to get derailed on other ideas and theology, and what’s important and what’s not important.

And I think this is why it’s so important to. To foster a relationship with Christ because it’s the only thing that’s going to keep you on track. Right? Because you don’t know any better. Like if you’re a young Christian, you don’t know any better, you don’t know that, you know, you’re not supposed to, you know, uh, they’re not all Christians, you know, go to seminary every morning, you know, dealing from the Mormons, not saying they’re Christians, sorry, Mormons.

Uh, you love us people, but, um, your theology is wrong. Um, I don’t know if we have a lot more of us listening, but I have no idea. We, uh, So there’s that piece of it too, of like, you just don’t know any better. So you’re going to do what others are telling you to do because you’re name this whole thing. So you’re just following.

Um, but the key for a new believer is we have to teach them skills so they can foster relationship with Jesus themselves. So we call them Jesus habits. We’ve talked about on this podcast early on, but we do all of these things like reading your Bible and prayer and fasting and biblical Bible memorization.

Um, and. Community and fellowship with one another and whatever other ones that I’m not thinking of right now. Um, right. We do all those things in relationship with Christ. We do them to foster relationship with Christ and that’s the only reason we do. We don’t do them because other people told us to do them.

We don’t do them because, um, You know, this is what good Christians do we want to be seen as a good Christian. Um, we don’t do these things because we need a bunch more information and knowledge. We do these things to foster a relationship with Jesus. And the goal of all that is if at your foster relationship with Jesus, you have a better understanding of what Jesus is going to say and what he’s not going to say.

And you have a better ability to discern God’s voice in your life. Um, so as you’re walking with Jesus, and if you foster a relationship with Jesus, so let’s just kind of go through the timeline. You’ve given your life to Christ you’ve, you’ve believed in your heart, you’ve confessed with your mouth. Um, you’re now a secured believer in Jesus, uh, meaning he’s forgiven your sins.

You’ve now been restored in relationship with God and the holy spirit now lives inside of you. So you have direct connection back to God. Um, you’ve been taught how to foster a relationship with Jesus and you’ve matured in that process. Um, And now you’re at a place where people are throwing ideas at you.

I’m like, oh, you should listen to this preacher. And you’re listening to this preacher and things. Just start to. You know, your red flags start to go off about whatever. And you’re like, oh, that’s weird that he said that. I thought Jesus said it this way. Um, and now you, you’ve kind of ha you have that, that balance of, you know, something just doesn’t feel right in my spirit, um, in this moment.

And now I can take that back to Jesus. Like, Hey, when I was listening to so-and-so Jesus, like I heard him say this, and it’s just, that felt really weird. And is that right? Like, is, is that. Have you, is that not have you? Um, and then there’s those moments, um, that you get to walk through and then you find those people that love Jesus and love you to walk with you in the same process.

But I think we miss out on all of that because you know, we’re just so eager. Maybe it’s American Christianity. I don’t know if it’s a Western Christianity idea. Um, That it’s just work-based religion or it’s just Christians in general. Um, it’s just part of, you know, human makeup, um, to, to feel like we have to do more, or we have to do certain things certain ways.

Um, and we just replaced this fostering with Jesus, um, piece, uh, so often, um, with other things maybe because they’re more tangible, maybe that’s it, because we don’t feel. Like I was talking with someone, not that long ago, we were just talking about emotions and feelings in general and how our emotions and our feelings they’re deceptive in nature.

They just are, and we can’t make decisions, rely on them in any way. Now you should feel them. I’m not saying push emotion out of your life, but I am saying don’t make decisions. Um, Based off emotion. Um, so don’t even make decisions based off who you think God’s character is based on how you feel like God is not absent from your life.

He’s not going anywhere. Um, he is actively involved and actively there with you. Um, and oftentimes we miss that because we have this, this. This feeling that we’re, you know, we’re alone, that God’s not around, but we know that’s not true. God is in everything around everything. And not only that, the holy spirit lives inside of you.

So you’re directly connected to God. Um, but if we trusted our emotions, then yeah, there’s times you’re going to feel like, well, God must be distant from me. And that’s just not like Jesus was forsaken at the cross. You will never be forsaken. And I think that’s oftentimes hard for us to remember. Uh, I agreed.

I trigger something for you. 

Andrew: I totally, that, that makes so much sense, man. And I was just closing, not even necessarily closing, closing, but like a thought. Like the back to you have to do this physical thing, or you have to follow this person or you have to speak in tongues or whatever it is like. Say you were preaching the gospel and it’s like, you’re not a real Christian, unless you cut off your pinky.

Uh, because you know, something, something said cut off your pinky in the Bible, sorry for the background noise. Daughter’s upset. Um, but say that were the case of you have to cut off your pinky, uh, to be a real Christ follower. Well, it’s like at first you’re like, well, that is like the most extreme, crazy thing ever, but then you keep hearing it and you keep thinking, well, that must be the real gospel.

And at some degree, you’re also like, well, if I just cut off my pinky, like it’s going to suck for a minute and maybe I’ll miss it for a long time, but it’s like, it’s done after that, you know, like it’s, it’s one and done. And, uh, and it’s this physical pain that wants it’s over like, It will be, I can just adjust and live normal life, you know, uh, based on that.

And I don’t know, it’s just, it’s something that can make you do the act, uh, whatever it might be of cutoff the pinky or fake speaking in tongues, or maybe really speak in tongues. I don’t know. Um, or get circumcised or say you got circumcised and sized or whatever. And. The reality is it’s like the real gospel penetrates the heart penetrates your, your mind makes you change the way you live over time, uh, makes you change the way you lead others and the things you say and don’t say, and the way you minister to those around you.

Um, a physical act is just a physical act man. And it’s something that everybody else can see. Um, but it doesn’t mean it’s something that actually touched your heart, uh, or, or changed the way you live, I guess, is what I’m trying to get at. So if you’re listening, don’t cut off your pinkie. I do not endorse that, uh, by any means 

Josh: taking the gospel or Josh is just be cool.

Andrew: Josh is fine with it. Two truths and a lie. I cut off my pinky. Um, wait and take off your love. Yeah, 

Josh: that’s a story. Yeah. Go for it. Why not? If you do go for it though, we didn’t condone it. So that’s exactly right. Exactly. 

Andrew: I do not endorse that at all, but I don’t know if that makes any sense or if I’m just like wasting time on this point.

I’m just trying to, like, I’m not trying to waste time in any means. I’m just really trying to like. I usually skim right past the stuff. When I read the Bible or listen to the Bible and man, I don’t know, for whatever reason it’s, it’s hitting me because that is the stuff that CFUs was preaching and that others were, were preaching that you need to add to the gospel.

And it was just trying to think like, why would people even go for that? I would everybody jump in and be like, yeah, we got to get soccer or you got to get circumcised. And we got to cut off for pinky. We got to do whatever, you know? Um, and maybe that’s why maybe that’s some of why is you got to like, Everybody else can see it.

And you, you go through literal pain and sacrifice for something like that. And then you can internally kind of check the box and be like, I’m good to go. Like I’m going to live in heaven forever. That’s what God wanted of me. And that’s kind of all the heart and life change that is required. Um, until somebody else lumped something else on, right?

Like there’s, there might be a next thing coming like, well, you know, two point, oh, there’s this other thing you gotta do too. And this other thing, and this other thing, and it’s like, wait, what even is the gospel? What, why are we here? You know? Um, W what, what even is the point of all of this? And it’s like, well, 

Josh: it’s a little, the enemy’s goal, right?

Like if the enemy can get us bickering confused, um, like that’s going to be the opposite of unity, you know, that we’re defined by, right. Like Jesus said, you know, they’re going to know you’re my disciple by your love for one another. Yeah. It gets us off track that we’re not focusing on all these things.

Now we’re just focusing on being right. Or our theology is better than your theology, um, rather than focusing on, you know, Christ crucified, um, then we miss all of that. So I think that’s, that’s a piece in getting back to kind of the original idea now. Good at going back like six times. We’re sorry. We’re all over the place today.

We apologize. Um, but getting back to that original idea of like you have influence over people. So with that influence of people, like, what are you doing to make sure the gospel stays at the forefront of your life and helps them, uh, for it to stay at the forefront of their lives? Um, so it’s reminding yourself what the gospel is and then the freedom that you have, you know, found in that gospel.

Like we’re not a law based. Faith anymore. Like Jesus fulfilled the old covenant it’s taken care of. We live in complete freedom, um, in this life. Um, you know, sin is still destructive sin, still gonna destroy your lives and the lives around you. Um, but, um, You have the ability to overcome sin through, through Christ, um, power and Christ’s example, as he leads you through the sanctification process, the process of becoming more like him, um, that’s the beauty of, of this new life, but, uh, verse 19 of Galatians here, uh, Galatians two, four through the law, I died to the law so that I might live for God.

Um, meaning the law became king. I tried to bay all the commandments and that’s how I, I live for God. Um, Verse 20. I have been crucified now with Christ and it’s no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me the life. I now live in the body. I live by faith in the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.

I do not set aside the grace of God for its righteousness could be gained through the law. Christ died for nothing. Um, So it’s this beauty of like, it’s not up to me anymore. It’s not up to me to live this life. Right. It’s not up to me to, um, Uh, to do all the right things. So I might live for God. It’s up to me, uh, to foster a relationship with Christ and that Christ live through me, meaning he’s going to guide me step by step through this life.

Um, I think it’s all too often that, you know, when we look at sin and I think we talked about this at some point, but there’s this idea that Jesus died. So. Um, we would send less and that’s not the goal of, of why he went to the cross or even why he, he was the sacrifice for sin. It was to restore relationship between you and God.

Um, and I think we often miss that piece. It’s all, it’s this relationship piece, that’s it. Um, and when we walk in relationship with Jesus, you’ll be amazed at how he guides you through that process. Um, you know, you might be dealing with 17 different sins right now. That may be a low ball count, who knows?

Um, and you’re like, well, I feel so overwhelmed that I have to conquer all 17 sins in my life. And you’re like, yeah, you on your own. That sounds impossible for WellMed price. Yeah. Christ living in you. It’s no longer you living, but Christ living, it’s walking through those, those seasons and Jesus saying, Hey, I want you to focus on doing this, this and this today.

Maybe it’s loving people better in some way. Um, and he’s like, I just want you to. Uh, to pay attention and be intentional about the relationships that are already around you and how you’re perceived in the midst of those relationships. Yeah. Okay. Well, I can do that. I can think through those things. Um, and now I start to, you know, genuinely care and have compassion for people around me because I could just see their situation and see where they’re at.

Um, and I started to love them better. So now I’m knocking off two different sins that I’ve been, you know, dealing with of not loving people. Well, and yet Jesus gave me clear instruction on what to do in this situation or in this season of life. And now, you know, I’m not going to send it now, the goal isn’t as sinless, right?

Like that’s the goal. The goal is we’ll walk in relationship with Jesus. A by-product of that. Yes. Is you’re going to send less, you’re going to become more like Christ. You’re going to love people better. You’re going to live out the great. Great commandments, but our love Lord God, with all our heart, with all your soul, their mind love your neighbor as yourself.

You’re going to do those things better than you’ve ever done them, but you do that, not by self effort or your own ability, or even your own understanding for that matter. You do it in relationship with Jesus and let him guide the way. And I think so often we take back those reins over and over again.

And we start adding to the gospel and then, you know, those that we have influence with just like we’re CFUs, they pick up our bad habits and our bad traits, um, of all these things that we’re doing for God. And because we want to, we want to live for God and living for God means I have to do these 50 things rather than just walking in relationship with Jesus, the freedom of this gospel.

Um, and now all these people that I have influence over now. Copying me and doing the same exact thing. And now I’m leading them astray. Um, you know, cause I don’t think, you know, given go back to the specific story, like I don’t think CFS was being intentional of, of leading people astray. I don’t think he was just being like, well, I just need to, I need to make these, these Jews.

I need to like lower them down to a standard. Or do you think they’re too high and mighty, I’m going to put more crap on them. So they’re not, maybe it’s a racist thing and you know, that. Him as a juice is like, oh, I’m better than them. So they got to do all these things. So like me, whatever the issue is, I don’t think that was the case.

I genuinely think he’s coming from these customs. These are what he had to do his whole life. Um, he still wants to be to live for God. And these were the things that identified you, that you live for God. And he just didn’t know any better. He didn’t under fully understand this, this new gospel that Jesus introduced or sacrifice and resurrection.

And I think that’s the biggest piece of all. Like, we can be safest so easily. Um, In our lives with those around us. So we have to be on guard because I don’t know about you, but like, it would break my heart if I put unnecessary burdens on people, because I told them that this was gospel truth. Right. Like, and we get to heaven.

Andrew: Let me just pause you like Josh. Like I know you, and if you, if you believe something to be part of the gospel and you are preaching that to others, you’re teaching ways to tangibly do that. Then the reality is you’re going to go the extra mile and do everything you can to hold people accountable to that, you know, that you have influence over.

And, you know, Hugh essentially, like you were just about to say, I think might get to when you’re face-to-face with the Lord and he’s like, Josh, why did you add all this crap to the gospel? Like, why’d you do this, you wasted time. And honestly you led some people astray with that. Like, or you led people to thinking that the gospel was one thing that it wasn’t, um, you know, Yeah.

And you know, you can sit there and say, I, I didn’t know. I, I was confused. I was wrong. I, you know, whatever the thing is, but it’s like, I don’t think you are. I want to spin our wheels on anything, man. Like, I don’t want to waste my time doing something. That’s not worth it or that’s wrong. 

Josh: Yeah, it standing before Jesus and Jesus saying, man, look at the potential that you squashed in these individuals because you put burdens and chains on them that I wasn’t putting on them.

Right. That would be the heartbreaking piece of like, man, the gospel could have spread further. More disciples would have matured in their relationship with Jesus and started to live out the great commission themselves. And I miss out on all those things because I thought it was important that everybody cuts off their pinky.

And I was just trying to convince people that this. Right. Yeah, that’d be, that’d be heartbreaking. 

Andrew: Absolutely. Absolutely. And. It’s a simple gospel. It’s a simple message. That is the gospel it’s that Jesus came as God. And, and as a man lived a life sinlessly and then chose to accept death on the cross for us chose to be the sacrifice that created the bridge from us to real relationship with God conquered sin on our behalf and took it on himself, um, to conquer death and.

The moment we started adding tests or physical sacrifices or books or preaching or teaching on top of those, that gospel. And we start saying, that’s the truth. This is the gospel 2.0, this is the gospel 2.5. This is 2.8. This is, you know, like iOS updates. Um, The second we start doing that second, we start leading people astray.

And just like you said, leading people away from what their potential was. Um, and, and the way they would have been used in the kingdom. Um, and God has authority to correct all these things, but he often uses people like Paul and like you and I to, to be the voice piece, to change those things. Um, but it’s a lot better to just avoid them altogether and not have to.

Not have to bring about this huge regulatory change of like, you thought that them’s the gospel, but it wasn’t, um, it’s a lot better to live there and just stay focused on what the gospel is rather than that, to it. So, um, Josh, that’s my parents, here’s, 

Josh: here’s Paul to the Romans and never really quite a part of this first, but, um, You know, we’ve explained what the gospel is and now here’s Paul explaining, how do you accept the gospel?

Um, and I think this is an ongoing thing. Like I don’t, I don’t think this is a one-time deal and I don’t mean ongoing in the sense of like your salvation. You have to continue to believe this for it to be true. Now you’re like moment in time belief in this, you know, doing these actions here in Romans 10, um, your salvation is secured from this place forward or.

Jesus’ sacrifice wasn’t enough, right? Like that’s the reality of it. Um, So, but I do think it’s important to, to remind ourselves of these things because it remind it keeps us grounded to what the gospel is, right? Nothing else, nothing more, nothing less. But this is Romans chapter 10, starting in verse nine.

And this is from the NIV. It says, if you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. So Jesus is who he said he was, God, God, God. You know, incarnate God in the flesh and believe in your heart that he, so he did what he said he was going to do. Um, so you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.

You will be safe for this. Four. It is with your heart that you believe and are justified. And it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Verse 11, as scripture says, anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame. Um, and there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. There’s no difference between, you know, Paul even expands LSE further in, in other letters.

Um, that the same Lord is Lord for all. For all and richly blesses, all who call on him for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. I think it’s important to, uh, verse 11, anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame, um, when shame starts in, I think that’s, um, from Isaiah, by the way.

Um, I don’t know for sure, but we’ll say it says Isaiah always has the good ones, um, from, from the Jewish scriptures, but. If shame is entering the equation for you, um, or your trying to enter shame into the equation for somebody else. Yeah. I’m like you’re in the wrong. You’re no longer aligned with the gospel then, because Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, took my shame and your shame on himself and died in our place to take it away that we will never be put to shame that we get to live in the freedom of the gospel, which means when you sin.

Should you feel guilty? Absolutely. But the beauty of your guilt is you get to quickly turn back to Jesus and say, Jesus, this is what I did. I’m so sorry. And guess what? It’s not like, Hey, here’s the 17 things I need you to do. Moving forward. It’s you’re forgiven. I’m going to throw it as far as the east is from the west, is it drew scriptures tells us, right?

Like this is, this is it. I’m going to take care of it. You’re you’re as white as snow. You’re you’re you’re peer again, not because anything you’ve done, but because everything that Jesus has done and that’s the beauty of, of this gospel. So if you’re placing shame on yourself, you’re placing shame on someone else is you’re adding to things that they have to do, um, for them to be maybe a better way to say it as good Christians, um, like good Christians do these things.

And it’s not relationship with Jesus, I’m sorry. You’re wrong. Um, and we’ve got to check ourselves and, you know, people are watching your life, um, and how you live this life. So live it by the same standard. Like if you’re feeling shame, like tell the enemy to get the F off, like, I’m sorry, but my Jesus took care of my shame.

Like you don’t get to put that on me. If someone tries to put it on you condemn them and be like, I don’t think so, fool. Like you take that shame and shove it up your rear end. Like Jesus took care of my shame.

I apologize. But like, there’s that piece of it. Like, you can stand in the freedom that you now have in the gospel because of what Jesus did. Like hold onto those things. And when you hold onto those things, you’re going to mere those things, other people, and then you can help them overcome the things that have been attached to their gospel.

Um, cause you’re like now, like you shouldn’t feel this shame, you shouldn’t walk around, like, you know, you’re defeated for the next, you know, 10 years. Like you should recognize that you were wrong. You sinned against God and against a man and you, but you’ve asked for forgiveness and it’s time to move on.

And that’s the beauty of the gospel. Um, and I think so often that we have to add all these different things to it. And we end up in these weird places and the Jesus never intended this to, and now. Hope is hard to find the burden for, you know, for this life is difficult and it’s heavy. Um, and Jesus never intended it for, to feel that way or to be that way.

Um, so, you know, be paying attention to those things and then help other people find the same freedom that you’ve already found in Jesus and his gospel. I don’t know if I have any other thoughts. I thought the verses to read after you were, you were kind of walking through the gospel itself. 

Andrew: That’s the perfect, that is the perfect final thought.

And I’m not going to say anything to, to supersede it. That is the gospel and that is the pure. True form of what you need to know and what we need to know and what we need to be reminded of so way to end it with the Homer. That was, that was perfect, man. Um, and this puts me about four minutes late to my zoom call.

So I got a bounce 

Josh: now. But, Hey, thanks for listening. We do really do appreciate it. It means a lot to us, and you’ve taken the time out of your busy schedule and your life just to walk through Jesus with us together. Uh, we encourage you to take the time to read these verses in relationship with Jesus, yourself, and then share with us.

You know what Jesus is telling us. You can email us@helloatthisjesuslifepodcast.com. Um, we’d love to hear those stories. They’re encouraging to us as they be encouraging to other people. And one day we’ll get them on our website. So other people read the stories too, but it’s, it seems like a lot of work.

Andrew: All right. Uh, as always, thanks for listening. Talk to you. Good to talk to you. All right. Thanks for listening to our show. It really means a lot to us, and we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and with other 

Josh: people. And it also helps us out. If you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening on and also follow us on Instagram and the Facebook.

Now sharing this with your friends, isn’t just to get the word out of the podcast. We believe that we have the message of hope that’s found in the gospel of Jesus Christ and you sharing. This has the ability to transform the lives of the people around 

Andrew: you. We want to hear it from you. You can email us@helloatthisjesuslifepodcast.com.

You can message us on Facebook and Instagram, or you can just visit us@thisjesuslifepodcast.com. But seriously, thanks for this. .