It is a gift to give someone trust in a relationship, but it isn’t easy for most of us to do. This week we cover Love Always Trusts and how to do it in a healthy, life-giving way. If we can put our trust in Jesus, we can trust Him in relationships with others.
Verses – 1 Corinthians 13.
Verses – John 16:33.
Verses – Jesus Clears the Temple.
Resource – BestSelf Icebreaker Cards.
Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life.
Andrew: My name is John. Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast, Josh. My man, how are you doing
Josh: this week, Andrew? Or should I call you the toilet bowl?
Andrew: Can, yes, you can.
Josh: As you were named on this,
Andrew: I’m proud of that name. You know why?
Josh: Uh, yeah,
Andrew: I’m curious. It’s not about poops. Um, it’s because, uh, although I’m prolific at that, obviously already hard party hard.
Josh: No, you’re a big part of it.
Andrew: And this is my
Josh: hold on it at the end of the night.
Josh: this is my
Andrew: third or fourth year playing fantasy football. And I’ve been the toilet bowl King last season in this season.
But this season I’m one of the best teams and I’m in the playoffs.
Josh: I won my division
Andrew: nine. I didn’t even have to play last week at a bi-week this week I’m taking on my brother. Um, and the winner of this goes the finals.
Josh: How much time do you spend on putting your teams together more than I should.
Andrew: But the toilet bowl King is an a, a fitting name because when you poop, a great thing to do is to hop on and check out some fantasy football stats.
See if you should pick up a player, drop somebody. If somebody has COVID dude COVID has made it tricky because there’s like tons of absences and all kinds of game changes,
Josh: changing constantly
Andrew: the toilet bowl King, and I’m hoping to become the, uh, No, I’ll stay the toilet bowl King.
Josh: Even if I win the league,
Andrew: that’s just going to be my name for sure.
Yeah. Uh, your name and recording. You’re
Josh: gonna have to like, go ahead. You’re going to have to keep the name. Like if you win with it, like you’re now stuck with that name for eternity. Like that’s the only way I worked.
Andrew: So my S my sister-in-law
Josh: just got to where you’ll lose every, every season. My
Andrew: sister, I just got a cricket, which I don’t know if you know what they are, but you can like print words and logos and all kinds of stuff on stuff.
So like on glasses, on all kinds of things. So she’s going to print it like a laser. I don’t know exactly how it works, but like, it’s, uh, you know, like pretty affordable little. Um, way to do it, but, um, this which Josh, you can see says that the toilet bowl King and has, uh, has a crown in it. Uh, she’s going to print that on a fancy beer glass for me, uh, as part of my Christmas gift.
And I’m like, yeah,
Josh: instead of, instead of the little tops to that crown, could it be like thirds?
Andrew: A crown of chards. That’d be awesome.
Josh: I’ll send her that I was on Facebook this week and, uh, a friend of mine posted, um, A picture of, of Palm trees with lights around them. And they said, why don’t, why don’t we decorate Palm trees with, with Christmas lights?
Um, because when you do, they just look like turds or not turds, they look like penises sticking out from the ground. It’s funny. Oh my gosh. Yeah, probably better though. Uh, it was, is even funnier because of who posted it. You’re just like, I didn’t see that one coming. Yeah, man. Good times.
Andrew: Good times. So your name on here.
I know that people can’t see us, but they can hear us. But your name that you chose is turd Ferguson. So it was fitting your turd comment on my, uh,
Josh: that’s a good, um, it’s true. That is a homage to a welfare hall. Isn’t it? Yeah. And, um, what’s the name of that TV, but the one that they they’re mocking, uh, Oh, the, um, was it jeopardy?
Andrew: Celebrity, jeopardy,
Josh: jeopardy, jeopardy
Andrew: with Alec
Josh: Baldwin and
Andrew: yeah. Or whatever.
Josh: That’s when that’s when, uh, well, I’ll give him elf, but after alpha that’s really the last time mean he was funny.
Andrew: It was elf. So step-brothers elf. And Saturday night live
Josh: stepbrothers. Okay. I’ll
Andrew: you an Talladega nights is also there Talladega nights.
It’s dumb, but it’s freaking hilarious, but stepbrothers is like one of the all
Josh: time ridiculous
Josh: Yeah. All time you put it in all time.
Andrew: Category Farrell. I would say it’s the best. It’s like comedy. I wouldn’t say I’m funniest, but it does make me belly laugh every time I watch it,
Josh: you know, you know what I watched because it’s Christmas season and you’re supposed to watch Christmas movies, Christmas season, I watched, uh, the Grinch who stole Christmas,
Andrew: the Jim Carey.
Josh: Um, Jim, Jack, Harry, as the fringe fund, that,
Andrew: that movie like phenomenal, I’ve watched that a
Josh: ton of the facial expressions. Like you’re just like, this is impressive, like that.
Andrew: All right.
Josh: You win. Uh, if you didn’t win an Oscar
Andrew: for that, you should. That’s true. I don’t think he
Josh: did. He wouldn’t have, cause it’s a kid’s movie, but still
Andrew: Josh, if you could create a holiday, what would it be?
Josh: If I could create a holiday, what would it be? Um, I’d probably go selfish and I’d just be like the Josh holiday. Um, I’m trying to think of how you’d celebrate it though. Like, what would you do, everyone, including children, I think would have to take like a shot of bourbon, um, to start the day off. Like that’s how you start the day at 9:00 AM.
What are he doing all
Josh: Uh, no, I think it’d be it make things a lot more interesting and fun. What other crazy things can they do? It would, I don’t know. I don’t have to think about that.
Andrew: You have to be like simultaneously election day. So it just happens once every four years. It’s presidential election days also Josh day.
Josh: What? Whoa, what are you, what are you doing? Taking away my holiday for a yearly holiday and making it four years. Every four years. That’s ridiculous. No, it’s an every, it should be almost an every month holiday. Like the first of every month we should just celebrate jobs. I just think that’d be, that seems to appreciate that.
And there’d just be like a hockey tournament all day. We just get to watch hockey all day long. Well then starting the day
Josh: That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was, uh, I heard a story this week of a coworker, um, pulling out a glass of wine behind from behind her computer after it became noon. Um, and usually that’s, that’s
It’s crazy. That noon is noon. The new time that it’s acceptable to have a drink. Janet and I were talking about this, but in a serious conversation
Josh: time before
Andrew: five it’s, five o’clock somewhere. Remember it like the story or the song
Josh: five o’clock somewhere. I don’t know why that’s like the social norm.
Yeah. That doesn’t make sense. I think you should drink it at anytime. If you want to drink, drink. Like, if you want bourbon with breakfast. I don’t see the issue with, like, you’re not getting drunk. You’re not drinking to get drunk at least once fair. So like, it doesn’t really matter when you’re drinking
Andrew: bourbon with breakfast
Josh: or if you just get in a blackout drunk or you want to be the toilet bowl King and hold on to that toilet bowl.
Then yeah, you probably shouldn’t be starting at 8:00 AM. Are you going to be very unproductive for that? That is not what my name means. Um, your, your productivity is going to go,
Andrew: cause I
Josh: always wound up like pointing out
Andrew: little things like this
Josh: that describe you in a light that you don’t like to be described.
You love it. You really do, because. Because you can’t help. It I’m like yourself. Like you won’t let it just be there. You’re like, I can’t put that out there. My mom listens to this. It’s true. It’s true.
Andrew: No, I, um,
Andrew: you said bourbon for breakfast, for whatever reason, it made me think of. Uh, this bourbon maple chunk ice cream that I had a
Josh: while back someone got it.
Andrew: It was, it was just from Turkey.
Josh: Someone got me bourbon, maple syrup for a coworker lines up for that’s going to
Andrew: be awesome.
Josh: It’s pretty good. It’s very bourbon. That’s a good combo
Andrew: for that. There you go. You’re living
Josh: because we need more or waffles waffles. They’re the best. They’re my daughter’s
Andrew: favorite breakfast
They should be.
Andrew: I don’t know what mine is.
Josh: My what’s what’s that’s my next question to you. What’s your favorite back? Breakfast soup. Like, if you were going to plan the perfect breakfast thing, what elements? Breakfast,
Andrew: French toast. I love, uh, fresh pancakes. I love waffles. So on that front, I’m good on a lot of things.
Um, I even love hot baked oatmeal. Uh, with some fruit and stuff in there, then you put butter syrup and a little bit of milk on it. That’s good. But here’s the thing. The one thing that’s probably my favorite breakfast food that I only eat at breakfast is like, Little breakfast sausages, like the maple breakfast links.
Those are stinking. Awesome. And that’s like the only time I eat them,
Josh: like, that’s just,
Andrew: I love bacon, but sometimes they throw bacon on my pizza. I’m never throwing maple sausage links on my pizza,
Josh: you know? Yeah. So that’s my, maybe you should, maybe you’re just missing out on TM. Maybe
Andrew: that’s a really am.
Yeah. I’m going
Josh: to have to change that. I’m a fan of breakfast, me to breakfast and hash Browns.
Andrew: I love,
Josh: I like hash Browns over easy eggs on top of hash Browns with, with some bacon or sausage and a piece of sourdough toast like
Andrew: breakfast. Uh, I love breakfast. You make me hungry. So it
Josh: tastes sweet. All right, here’s my next question for Andrew.
If you could compete in one Olympic sport. Which sport would you choose? The thing
Andrew: that comes to mind
Josh: immediately is like female wrestling or something. No,
Josh: uh, needs to be a man today. They,
Andrew: this is so goofy, but the one, if this is not my real answer, like if it were real life, I would say snowboarding, like one of the snowboarding events, maybe pipe or some crazy thing like that, but.
Josh: Cause it’s like what all the cool kids are. Like the one that I think I could realistically do would be
Andrew: curling. Like
Josh: it would be, Hmm. It’d be fun. Have you gone
Andrew: curly forgotten, curling, really good hand-eye coordination. And I think it would be super fun to like, be on a team, like
Josh: swipe swearing.
Andrew: Like it’s just so intense and ridiculous.
It’d be fun. What about you?
Josh: What would you choose? Yeah, there’s curling rinks. Where the heck were we? If I could be a hockey player, that makes sense. That’d be a blast. Fair enough. It’d be an easy win. Um,
Andrew: TNA, didn’t say soccer. The world cup is like bigger than the Olympics. I don’t even know soccer is a part of the Olympics.
Josh: Yeah. I would assume so everything it’s got everything, it has that sport where you cruise around on cross country skis and shoot things like that. But guess what? That’s called the drunk Canadian. Yeah. You’re just like, wait, like what happened? That you’re like, I got the next sport
Andrew: Canadian pastime.
Josh: Take a shot of bourbon, grab our rifles and do cross country rides and shoot things while we do it. You’re like, wow, that sounds great.
Andrew: We’re mainly going to go uphill
Josh: and we’ll shoot at
Andrew: different distances. And sometimes we’ll actually go downhill and ski. It’s like.
Josh: Are you Canadian? Yeah. Oh. Would that be, have you been cross country skiing before
Andrew: it’s miserable?
Josh: Yeah, I bet it is. I’ve been skiing. We did in junior high school, in South Dakota and it is
Andrew: miserable to it’s like,
Josh: first off you can’t walk anywhere. You got freaking six foot sticks on your seat. Yeah. So you can’t like. You have to figure how to push these stupid things. So it sounds tough riding with them to go faster and you have to like time it just, right.
So they don’t click in the back. It’s a, whoever came up with that sport hates their son hates themselves and just wants to punish themselves on a regular basis. I think that’s true. Yeah. They’re just like, what sport can I create that just punishes me the least fun,
Andrew: most difficult workout.
Josh: Yeah, my, uh, my sister and her boys are coming out right after Christmas.
And my mom’s like trying to plan things to do with them. Um, she’s like, Oh, we could just, we could just snowshoe across the Lake. I’m like, what? No. Like nothing. That sounds
Andrew: not fun at all.
Josh: Yeah. That sounds miserable. Yeah. Anything I have to put shows. I remember walking to school in three feet of snow. They came up to yo my nipples, uh, having to crawl through and she’s like, yeah, I want to do that for fun.
Thank you. It felt like a mile, but I think it’s like a blocker with no clothes on. It’s exactly how it is. You’re like crawling. I was trying to pull yourself out. It’s a knit. It’s a nightmare nightmare. Oh man. That’s terrible. Yeah. It’s a nightmare. Your nips or your nips, or are in chains, Josh. Oh, okay.
Andrew: your neck. No, I don’t have a question. I, uh, I woke up this morning
Josh: and you just want to talk about
Andrew: my nips.
Andrew: I woke up this morning and Catherine, my daughter had finished the night sleeping in our bed and I was laying like on my back and I have a mole on my shoulder and I wake up to daddy. You have a nipple on your back and she’s grabbing it.
She said, I’m
Josh: going to pop it. I’m like, Oh, just like pinching my mortar stuff, honey, you don’t pop nipples.
Andrew: Like, what are you thinking?
Josh: Second off. Is does your, does your nipple have hair coming out of it? Like, is it a good old fashioned nipple, nipple? No idea. But yeah, she’s convinced I’ve had one on my wrist that grows like the longest thickest black.
It’s a weird,
Andrew: so weird.
Josh: What about a mole? Makes things, yeah, how’s have a mole. On my neck somewhere, dude, I do have a question though, for you,
Andrew: if you could arm wrestle like anybody throughout history or alive today, who would it be and why
Josh: we’re alive
Andrew: now? Let’s say anybody dead, like any dead in any historical character, they’d be in their prime.
When you arm wrestle, obviously.
Josh: Well, we first know it’s going to have to be someone I can be. Cause like, why would you want to bring someone back and let them be you? Uh, no, thank you. Uh, who could it be?
Andrew: Are you going to go Margaret
Josh: Thatcher? Can you think of like some like woman? Yeah, I was thinking like somewhere, like, like they’re like, who’s the lady that created the first American flag.
Betty, Betty, Betty
Andrew: rock, Betty.
Josh: Am I making that up, but I don’t know whoever she is, but then I was thinking like, let’s be honest. They like worked hard. So they’re probably pretty strong women. Uh, and I definitely don’t want to bring back a woman and then lose to a woman. No offense to you, women you’re strong.
I just don’t want to lose well, if
Andrew: your whole intent is who am I picking? Because I know I can beat them. If you bring somebody back
Josh: who is a woman who you think you’ll
Andrew: beat easily and then you lose, then it’s just like devil shame on you. You should have just gone with somebody. You thought. Maybe it would be, but
Josh: you got a close match.
You gotta play it right though. Like you would pick that person, but not say you’re going to break them. So if they do, when you can still try to save face, uh, cause that’d be important. Um, because like this would be the event of the century, right? Like the arm wrestling between you and some historical figure, that’s been dead for a hundred years to bring back.
Yeah. Like there’s that piece? Probably like I probably like Abraham Lincoln, he seemed like a pretty like
Andrew: Lincoln dude. Honesty, but you know, he
Josh: must have, along that arm reach though, if you twist the wrist, you get that leverage over. Yeah. I don’t know. You shouldn’t then be, you know, honest Abe he’d pro he probably like forced me to do it.
Right. So I wouldn’t be able to twist it, but you’d be like, he’s probably a rule follower.
Andrew: You abolished slavery, but I beat you in arm wrestling. So who’s the bigger deal.
Josh: So who’s the better one here.
Andrew: that’s all it, buddy.
Josh: So here’s the next question is if he came back. Would he still have a bullet hole in his head? Ooh. Or does he come back in like prime for you to pick? Cause I’m bringing them back. You’re Abe you pick, I’m bringing them back with a little hole. Yeah, he’s definitely beat him. Yeah.
He’ll put his Jersey. If he beat a guy
Andrew: who’s like been shot, like, yeah. I mean, if that are wrestling, it’s like, Oh, was it pre shot or post shot?
Josh: Like just shut out people. Yeah. He got rid of slavery, right? He’s fine. All right. Enough. He did it enough. Uh, no. Did you see, um, where is it? We’re getting a political I’m about to get political, but whatever.
Um, There’s a school somewhere on the West coast, washing out assume Washington, Oregon, but it could be California, uh, that has Abraham Lincoln elementary or Abraham Lincoln middle school. And they’re gonna change the name because did he do a bunch of somebody they don’t like to or something, but you’re like, uh, now I’m confused.
Andrew: Yeah. He’s most famous things.
Josh: All your work people out there. I’m not woken up. Sorry. I apologize.
Andrew: Go broke. You know, that’s what they say. That’s what some of them said,
Josh: wait, so the only way to get woke, you have to go
Andrew: broke. I don’t know. I don’t know.
Josh: I don’t think I’m woke enough, man. I have no idea.
I’m not either either. Dude. What are we talking about today? Other than. Politics.
Andrew: We’re talking about getting woke and how Jesus was. No, I’m just kidding. Um, today we are talking about, uh, we’re almost done, man. We’re really close to the end of first Corinthians 13, at least of the first eight verses. Um, so today we’re on love, always trusts and, uh, and the reason if you’re listening.
To us for the first time. And you’re like, why did you just do all that intro? The reason is, uh, we’re trying to model questions and relationships and also hopefully make you laugh a little bit.
Andrew: and all the intros, because this whole chapter, at least first Corinthians 13, one through eight is all about love.
And we’re really looking at this in terms of what does it mean to love others? Well, like be in relationship with others, what does it mean to love God? Well, Be in relationship with God. So, uh, we figured we should do a lot of pre mumble, um, and have some goofy and intentional questions to, uh, start that time.
So yeah. Love always trusts. And, uh, man,
Josh: Josh, I don’t know about
Andrew: you, but trust is something that, uh, can be. Easy to give until it’s not easy to give for me. It’s easy to give the first time. And then when it’s broken or, uh, or I come out in the wrong because of it, it’s harder to get the second time, um, to people at least.
Josh: um, I don’t know.
Andrew: What are your, what are your thoughts on love? Always
Josh: trust. What do you trust? What do you trust? It’s not people, God like, do you trust your dog?
Andrew: No, I do not trust my
Josh: dog. She’s a total
Andrew: turd. She’ll be like great for days.
Josh: And then. Yes. Speaking of turd, my dog laid some turds in my house yesterday.
Cause he’s a little turd. One of them was on the trip to them too much. And then
Andrew: he’s like, Oh, by the way, I’m still Jack. I’m going to poop on your steps.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Then you’re like, well, then I was like, how’d you do it? Like, I’ve seen you poop. It’s like a whole ordeal. Like how did you balance on the step and get a turnout?
That’s funny. Now I have more questions. You know, trust is hard because we’ve all been burned in relationship. Right. Like someone has broken your trust. Someone has harmed you hurt you. Um, did something, uh, that, that destroyed that trust. And it’s very hard once you go through situations like that to trust another person, because it’s inevitable, it’s going to happen again.
And it is, it is going to happen again. Um, so I think when people hear these verses, I think the first response is probably like, how do I get out of it? You’re like, I hear what you’re saying, Jesus, like always we’re supposed to, if I’m really going to love my brother, but like, do I always have to trust him?
And what does trust really mean? Um, so I think there’s a, yeah. Yeah, I think there’s, I think there’s a, Hey, is there a scapegoat in this one? Like any, any, you know, sub commands that I could use to, to get out of not having to trust people. And I get it, I’ve been burned plenty of times in my life. I, I understand them right there with you.
Um, the problem is if we’re truly going to have relationship with other people, and this is a command of Jesus, right? Like he said, love, God love people. And if we’re going to love people, when we gotta be in relationship with people, it’s the only way that works. Um, we can’t love them from a distance. Um, but if we’re going to do that well, like trust is a big piece of this, like trust is, is one of those foundational pieces of relationship.
Um, and trust has to be there. At least one side has to trust the other side or ain’t going to work. Um, I would argue both sides have to trust at least some extent for it to work, but, um, at least one side has to jump in and be like, yeah, I trust, uh, that individual heartedly. And then that person can. Do another one with that trust, but, um, like trust has to be, um, a cornerstone to any relationship, whether it’s, you know, a relationship with your spouse or relationship with a sibling or a friend, um, or even a coworker like trust has to be a part of the equation.
I think the difference that we’re gonna kind of run into in this episode is trust is on a sliding scale. Hmm. Uh, I don’t trust. I don’t have to trust you Andrew. The same way I have to trust. Um, Someone I see in once or twice a year. Oh yeah, right. Yeah. Jeff. Yeah, twice a year. Uh, cause the rest of the time he’s in a closet, I just walk them up.
Uh, But we have a coming out party every every six months. And it’s this big deal. Make them feel really special. That was a dumb joke.
Andrew: Take good care of the dog, by the way, for
Josh: all the people
Andrew: happy dog,
Andrew: stupid. Spoiled.
Josh: He doesn’t eat dry food anymore because he thinks he’s above it. Yeah. I’ve even tried, like, all right, fine.
I’ll wait you out. No wet food. Like I’m worried about you. He
Andrew: doesn’t eat. Here’s the, yeah.
Josh: Clementines like that too. It’s more stubborn than I am. Yeah. Like, um,
Andrew: you give that to a, I’m
Josh: sorry to interrupt
Andrew: you in the middle of the thought. Um,
Josh: but I think
Andrew: we should circle back to that beat the, the trust on a sliding scale. Cause that’s a great idea or a great. Direction to
Andrew: But, uh, have you ever heard about the trust problem when eBay was first started? Okay. So I re I read this in a,
Josh: I have a trust property.
Andrew: I read this in the business book. Like at some point it wasn’t that long ago, but anyway, when eBay came out, there were all these people saying like, it’s going to be like, this was in the.com boom. Kind of towards the end of it. Yeah. And there were a lot of people who are used to seeing these websites common and crash, you know, it’s worth a hundred billion dollars, it’s worth zero, you know, like all that stuff.
So there were a lot of people who were like, is like a terrible idea. Like obviously. This I’m going to send the money. They’re never going to send me this stuff. Like, so what eBay did initially was they spent a ton of money and they hired all these people to just help verify that you sent the money. And I said, the stuff, you know, like that, that was their whole job was like verification tracking, like where your security team, we’re going to make sure this transaction and transaction happens.
And like within six months of eBay starting. They had fired pretty much everybody in that role because the actual rate of people doing that was so low that they’re like, Oh, We don’t need to spend money on all these people. We don’t need these like trust police, you know, because actually when Josh
Josh: knows he’s buying
Andrew: something from Andrew
Josh: and he could see his username and his
Andrew: home city and whatever,
Andrew: he’s just like, okay, Andrew, here’s your 50 bucks.
Send me the CD player, you know, or whatever. And it works. So it was, it was like this weird, huge surprise because there were a ton of naysayers who are like, there’s. Like people don’t trust each other enough. Everybody’s going to use this to scam everybody else. And the opposite happens. So it was kind of cool of like, there’s actually more trust in our society than a lot of people thought.
And I think still to this day, like I buy a lot of stuff through Facebook marketplace and I’ve had great experiences, you know, um, with people, like, I don’t feel like I’ve ever had anybody try to rip me off on that. Um, and you know, it’s second and stuff and all that, but I don’t know, man. It’s, uh, it’s interesting that there’s actually maybe more trust in our society than we even
Andrew: Cause we’re all pessimistic and jaded because of our personal, uh, times when we didn’t trust people or trust was broken. So
Josh: anyway, man. Yeah. I wonder too, like, yeah, I think there’s a piece too. Like I. I think in general society probably trust strangers more than,
Josh: Yeah. Well, let me say it this way. I think.
Because friends know you intimately and have the ability to hurt you more because a stranger on a fricking thing about you, they know what you just bought on eBay on eBay, because you bought it from them. But outside of that, they don’t really have any information on you. And the harm is, is pretty limited on what they can do to you.
Right. Um, where a friend, you know, they’re, they’re gonna know you well, if they’re a good friend, they’re going to know you inside. Now. If you don’t do friendships well, then they might not know you at all. But, um, They have more ammo in the toolbox. I think it’s probably easier to trust a stranger than it is to trust friends because of the level of trust.
Going back to that sliding scale, that level of trust that’s required.
Andrew: Just trust you to
Josh: do this one with a friendship. I don’t trust you on a wide lens. Yeah. Yeah. Yup. Um, and I think that that plays a piece, but like we look at Jesus’ example, like even in Jesus’ example, we see him, um, functioning at different levels of trust.
Like he’s not giving everybody all of himself or all the information or all the big picture of the gospel and the kingdom of God that mystery is coming to be, um, like that’s, that’s only for certain people. So I think there’s scales to trust. And I think that’s where we need to. Um, one remind ourselves, but.
Just because they’re scales doesn’t mean I shouldn’t continue to push you up the scale, right? Like that should be the goal. Like I should be trusted more and more and more as we journey longer and longer and longer. And even if you hurt that trust or harm that trust, and that’s going to take a couple steps, steps back.
I don’t leave you at that spot forever. Like I keep giving you a little bit more and giving you a little bit more and giving a little bit more, um, not to test relationships. Cause then we get weird controlling ground, but, um, It just in terms of like, we should be building trust. That’s just been the natural, um, position that we live in.
And you, as I trust you with this, I should trust you with more. If you’ve proven there, the second you break that trust, then you drop back down to a level, but there should still be some level of trust in the relationship. Um, you know, even if it’s a small piece of trust, like I got to believe the best, the best of you.
Um, but I think like Jesus clearing the temple courts. Um, let me find the verse where it is that
Andrew: when you say clearing the temple courts, this is where it key straight up. We talked about this before, where he like
Josh: made a
Andrew: whip and cleared the money changers and the people selling animals and stuff out of the temple courts, right?
Josh: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Andrew: Interesting choice for a trust
Josh: discussion. Beginning of one of the gospels. Oh, John to Jesus clears the temple. I’m pretty sure it says something about the scene here. Uh, yeah, John two 23, it says now while he was in Jerusalem, this is right after, um, the, the clearing of the temples. Um, uh, he was in Jerusalem at the Passover festival.
Many people saw the signs he performed. These are essentially the crowds and believed in his name. So these are not the disciples. These are not the people he’s doing close relationship with. Like, these are just the people around him. And verse 24 says, um, Jesus would not entrust himself to them for, he knew all people.
He did not need any testimony about mankind for, he knew what was in each one. Um, and that’s essentially, that’s just, it’s just good, uh, relational IQ, right? Um, like it’s paying attention to how much can I trust you with these certain things? How much. Should I trust you with these certain things. And then, you know, as you come into closer inner circle, the level of trust should go through the roof, right?
Like yeah. The people that you see from time to time, should you trust them and give them the benefit of the doubt? 100%. Should you entrust them with who you are? Probably not. All of you. But at least a piece of use, they know you. Um, but yeah, I probably don’t need to sit down with them, be like, Hey, can I share with you my bank account information?
Um, can we get into any debt I may have? Can, can we talk about just really deep pains in my life? No one that person would be like, what is going on right now? Like, why are we having them this conversation? Uh, and too, like, we don’t really. Like not the place to dig into this die.
Andrew: And I’m like in charge
Josh: of your will,
Andrew: what’s going on.
Josh: Yeah. Right. And do you have any money if I am in charge of your will? Like, how does this all work? Um, but your friends, your spouse, those that you’ve chosen to do life with, um, should know those things. Those are things that should be a part of, of that relationship and you should be vulnerable and open about those things.
Um, could they. Turn on you at some point and use those things against you. Sure. That’s always a piece of it, but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it because that’s where life really fun. You know, we we’ve talked about this before the, the full life that Jesus promises, John 10, 10 I think is found in relationships.
It’s found a relationship with God and relationship with one another. Um, and if we choose to only do relationship with God, like we miss out on so much of what God has for us. So, you know, even when we look at Jesus example, like Jesus functioned in this place of there’s different levels of relationship, different levels of trust, and that’s okay.
Like we can have, you know, those close, close friends, the Peter James, and John’s of Jesus’s life. And then you had, you know, his outer circle of the disciples and then even a greater Circur. Well, you could even, like, there could be even a circle outside of that, of like here’s all the followers that were still around them, but weren’t part of the 12 that a hundred or so.
And then you have the bigger circle of the masses. Yeah. And I, I, I think, you know, we look at Jesus’ example and he entrusted himself to those, those groups at different stages, but trust was still a part of it. And I think that’s the biggest piece of this is like, how do we, um, continue to push into trust without, um, Without one pulling back and saying, I trust enough people, but also to kind of dig into now, if my posture is supposed to be, I need to trust people more.
How do I give more of myself? And then also kind of the, um, ESV translation of like, how do I also believe in them more, um, and trust in them as you know, that they’re trustworthy beings. Um, but Andrew, like, how do we, I guess the question is like, how do we practically live this out?
Andrew: Well, so. The as, as you were talking, as you were sharing that, I was thinking about Jesus talking to his disciples, his, his closest circle, like you said, the kind of circle of the 12th.
Not even just the circle, the three, but like the 12 people following him closest, um, as he was doing his ministry and he told them straight up like, Hey, I don’t see you as like distance servants. I see you as friends. That’s why I tell you the nitty gritty of exactly
Josh: what I mean
Josh: what I’m going on there.
The people who
Andrew: he tells the parables, the sermon on the Mount. And the crowd sits there. Like, Whoa, that sounded good. But what the heck does that mean? The disciples are like, what does that mean? And he’s like, here’s exactly what it means, you know? Um, so they’re his close circle who he’s fully just transparent with.
And I think to me, uh, that’s a place to start, you know, where you have say you have some friends, but you’re like, Uh, they’re, they’re more than acquaintances, but they’re not my best friend, but
Josh: I’d love to go deeper
Andrew: in relationship with you or with them. Um, they love Jesus and they loved me. And I think it’s in that order, you know, I think they love Jesus more than they loved me, but I’d like to be a closer friend with them.
Um, one thing like for me personally, my, I, I can be friends with. Most anybody at some level, but for me, I don’t like to be super authentic and unguarded with everybody. So for me, one of the most practical things they can do is tell them something authentic about me, you know, put it out there, uh, even when I’m not sure how it’s going to be received and.
Um, you know, I know that doesn’t mean like share your, your deepest, darkest stuff
Josh: with somebody on,
Andrew: in the first five minutes of knowing them. That’s not what I’m saying, but I’m just saying like, take a little risk with them and do it, do it, cautiously. Try to do it wisely. But if there’s a lot of things, you’re like, man, I just wish I could tell somebody about this.
Like try, try telling somebody, try putting yourself out there and saying, I’m going to trust. That this is going to come back in a, in a better way than, uh, than a bad way, you know, and for me, this, this podcast was one of the small ways of doing that kind of in 2020 of like, You know, you and I are now not like we have over 30 episodes out over 30 hours of, of kind of us thinking and talking and processing stuff together, out there that people could use against us if they wanted to.
I’m sure we’ve said some dumb things along the way. Um, I know I have, and, uh,
Josh: Well, there’s definitely people out there using it against us. No doubt about that.
Andrew: Yeah, for sure.
Andrew: but I just, uh, just think like, that was a, a level of authenticity where it’s you and I are both like, okay, we’re now not just totally anonymous.
You know, we’ve, we’ve given thoughts on a lot of topics, a lot of theological things, a lot of socio social things like issues, politics, all of it, you know, we’re not just anonymous at this point. So that’s some level of like, I’m going to put it out there. I’m going to see. And when you and I talk Josh directly and we’re not being recorded, um, we have a different level of conversation where we’re just more trusting because we have deeper trust.
We, that we’ve built over years. You know, it’s not something that happens overnight by any means. So, um, I dunno, I just encourage people if you’re, if you don’t. Trust anybody, or you feel like you don’t have any close enough friends? Um, a lot of that could be on you and if you’ve picked good people to pursue people who love Jesus and love you, um, then try to build deeper trust with them.
Try to share something authentic as a, as a starting point. What do you think?
Josh: Yep. No, that’s good. I think there’s. I think the authentic pieces is huge. Um, right. Like you should be you everywhere you are. Um, but to the degree of. Of sharing or vulnerability maybe is the way to say it. I’m not sure. Um, is going to increases as you do deeper relationship with people.
Um, I think oftentimes for people, like we’re not authentic in any environment where we are, because like our guard is always up. Um, because like, we’re just, we’re not. Comfortable with us. Um, and we’ll talk about this in a couple more episodes episodes. We’ll, we’ll dive into loving ourselves, but, um, it’s such a integral piece of like trust.
If, if I can’t love myself, um, if I can’t be comfortable with who I am, both for the good and the bad and just, this is who God has. Created me to be, and I’m on a journey to becoming more like Jesus, but I’m not there yet. Um, like if I’m not comfortable with that, I’m definitely not gonna be comfortable relationship.
Like there’s always gonna be guards of like, what if they know that I really think this, what if they know I saw that? Or what do they, what if they know that, um, you know, I really want to hurt that person in that way, those things, like, what are they going to like. W we gotta be comfortable with this is just who I am.
Right. And that’s part of this, this podcast, and yes, it’s on a smaller scale. Like we’re not opening up, but everything going on in our lives to the masses, that would be stupid because trust is built over time. Like it doesn’t happen. And this is, this is us. Yeah. This is us talking to a group of people, has nothing to do with the relationship.
You may know us better. We don’t know you any better at all. Don’t even listen to this. They, they,
Andrew: as we talked to them about the podcast, they’re like, Oh, you’re still doing that. How do I find that?
Josh: It’s like, okay. Who
Andrew: listens to our show.
Josh: I know five people that
Andrew: that’s about it. It’s awesome.
Josh: Um, yeah, I don’t know who all these people are that I met them from listenership.
Uh, we, we do appreciate you listening and sharing and, and getting out there. And hopefully we’re helpful in some way. Um, like I said, authenticity is a big piece of this. So like, are we being authentic to who God has created us to be in all environments? And there’s a level of exposure and entrusting ourselves to each other, but we should still be us.
Right? Like. Even if I’m in a large group of people, um, I should still be me in that group. Like I shouldn’t try to put on a facade of something that I’m not, or put on a face like that. That’s not, but I should still be me now as I grow and I should still be me in intimate relationships, um, intimate friendships, people that know me inside and out.
Um, I should still be me in those situations as well, but they’re going to just know more about me. They’re gonna know more of the stories. Yeah. More of the background. They’re going to know more of, of how I think about certain things. They’re going to know more about how I’m going to react to a situation, because if seen me in this situation before, right, like they’re going to know that, like, there’s just a greater level of relationship.
Um, and we can even use Jesus model for all of this too. Right? Like Jesus had Peter, James and John, and then it was, um, the disciples and so on and so forth. Um, and we can look at that relationship. Well, they were defined relationships, right? Like Jesus knew Peter James and John. These are John. John are, these are the close ones, right?
They were defined in Jesus’ head. They weren’t defined to control. They weren’t defined to create this, this like desire to be in relationship with Jesus because he’s the cool guy. Like that’s not the, but in Jesus has had though not stated out loud, probably though John was pretty convinced. He was the one that was loved most for Jesus.
We do see that. Right. Um, but it was defined. So you got to define people. Now, the other piece of this is we should be moving people to a deeper relationship with us. Like that should be our goal. Like someone that I’m just meeting, like yeah. The goal is I want to grow in relationship with that individual into deeper relationship, but trust grows over time.
Um, trust can be given. In smaller doses at the get go, and it should be, um, and then more and more trust is, is grown. When we just try to like throw everything at a relationship at once, um, of, yeah, I’m going to just trust you with everything that I am and I’m going to give it all out. Like that’s not, that’s not healthy.
Like, like that’s just going to cause like it creates this facade of trust, but it’s not a trust built on foundation. So this facade eventually just implodes on itself and on everyone else around us. You know, you saw that happen in high school and middle school. Um, you thought he was your best friend or she was your best friend and you told her everything.
And then all of a sudden she was sharing her everything with so-and-so because she wanted to be close to so-and-so. I’m like, well, what the hell? Right? Or
Andrew: if you watch parks and rec and you see with the episode from back in the day when, uh, Tom is constantly giving out house keys, To, uh, to the girls at bars.
And he’s like, Oh, and they’re like, uh, has this ever worked? Somebody has to him. And he’s like, no, not yet, but it’s a great idea. And I have been robbed six times, you know?
Josh: So, uh, that’s
Andrew: not how you build trust.
it has to be given, like you’ve got to, you’ve got to take those steps because I think a lot of people are we’ll look at it and say, well, because I’ve been harmed, I’m not going to trust anyone moving forward. And I get that mentality like Andrew and I are eights. Loyalty matters a lot to us. Protecting ourselves from harm matters a lot to us.
Um, that’s, that’s our natural state. Um, But we can take that posture and because that’s our natural state and we can just say, well, that’s just who I am. Um, so I don’t have to lean into trust while I’m eventually ended up in a pretty lonely place, because if I’m not leaning into the trust, like the relationships become stagnant and then the relationships eventually just fall off.
Right? Like there has to be growth in a relationship like relationships, don’t just stay. Even keel, like they’re either going up or they’re going down. Um, they’re not like it’s a, this wave. Right. And it’s a big portion of that is trust. Are we building trust? Are we hurting trust? Um, so I say all that to say this, you can be in that place where you’re like, well, I’ve been hurt so many times before Josh.
Like, I can’t be hurt again. You’re like, no, no, no, you can because it’s worth it. Like the life that Jesus promises, John 10, 10 is a life found in relationship it’s life and a relationship with God and a life found relationship with. With people with man. Um, and if we choose to only do one over the other, we miss out on so much life, so much growth, so much depth, so much enjoyment, so much fun.
Um, this is the thing that just brings out of us. Just the greatness of what life could be, it’s built inside of relationship. Um, so we’ve gotta be choosing to pour into relationship if we’re missing out on, we’re going to miss out on so much of what, um, Uh, Jesus wants for us in this life. Um, but be authentic to who you are be.
I think dude, God has called you to be, um, and get comfortable with you. That’s an important piece of it. Cause if you, if you can’t love you, you’re definitely going to love other people. You might be able to fake it, but you’re not really going to love him. And you’re definitely not going to let other people love you.
And if you’re a person that doesn’t let other people love you, you’re going to be a lonely person because, and. Our natural state and human humanity is to love one another. Like though we do it in perfectly and there’s like, we want to be in relationship. Like it’s built into our core. It’s a, it’s a piece of how God has designed us and created this.
And we can convince ourselves that it’s not, and even live a life that it’s not, but at our core, we’re, we, we know we’re missing something. Um, we know we’re losing out on things, um, but we’ve just become comfortable with it. Um, because we just feel like, you know, it’s. It’s who I am and we’ve missed it.
You’re just missing life,
Andrew: man. As you were talking, uh, I don’t know why this first came to mind, but I’m hoping I can connect, uh, some dots, but, um, and disclaimer, I did Google it cause I knew the verse, but I didn’t know where it came from. John 1633
Josh: Bible, probably it’s in the Bible.
Andrew: It’s in the Bible, John 1633.
It says, this is a one time you
Josh: quoted the Qur’an and we’re just like, Whoa, what are you doing? Well, we’ll get back to the same
Andrew: podcast. It says, uh, Jesus
Andrew: I’ve told you these things, so that may, you may have peace in this world. You will have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world and I was just thinking about it, like through this lens of trust.
You could fixate on some verses like that one and say, well, Jesus overcame the world. And my hope is in him, I hope is in this next life. My hope is for when I die, I’m going to live at heaven, eternally, and it’s going to be awesome. And it is, I believe that I believe it’s going to be awesome. But Jesus also talked about the kingdom is here.
Today and now, so the reality is yes, Jesus overcame the world. He did that on her behalf, but the other reality is you still have to live in this world right now and you probably haven’t overcame it yet. You haven’t, haven’t broken all the shackles of what it means to live in a fallen world. You know? So one of those things is like, man, if you don’t build trusting relationships, like.
Josh: Josh. I’m
Andrew: confident that if there was something that I picked up the phone and I called you and said, dude, this thing just happened. I literally need you in my corner. Will you fly across the country? You would like we, we used to live in the same city. Um, I’m confident you’d be here and I do the same for you.
And like, You need deep trusting relationships, hopefully that are in close proximity. So they don’t always have to be, um, you need it in this life to get through because yes, Jesus overcame the world. Yes. The kingdom of God is here and now. No, you were not meant to do this alone. Jesus didn’t do this life alone.
He spent his time on the cross alone and he spent his time on the cross with one voice on the left side or right side telling him, Oh, I, if you were actually the son of God, you could come down the other voice saying. I, I, I believe you’re the son of God and it’s, yeah, you’re going to be with me in paradise.
You know, the two thieves on the cross. Um, you didn’t deserve this, you do deserve this. You’re not really the son of God. You know, that’s how he went out of this world, basically how he died before he came back, all that stuff. But. All I’m trying to say is he didn’t model going through this world alone, going through this life alone.
When he was doing his ministry, he did it with very close friends, very intentional relationships filled with trust. Um, and, and he, yes, Jesus has overcame this world, but. You and I have it, we’re in it for as long as God wants us to be we’re in this life, in this world. So we need each other cause short term you can get by without those deep trusting relationships.
Long-term I don’t think you can long-term I can’t. I need it. So I’m going to assume everybody else probably does too, just by nature of being here. Well,
Josh: yeah, yeah. And I think, I think you could get by without them. But I think you’re going to miss out on so much life. That’s fair. Um, like you think of recluse that, that are at home by themselves.
They’re not talking to anyone. They’re not like it’s possible, but like what, what is life and accomplishments? Not the right word, but like, um, Joy fulfillment. What joy and fulfillment are you getting out of life when you’re doing it on your own? Um, like there’s so much more to this. And the other part of this is like, um, we should be moving to having more and more great friends, more and more people that know us 100% authentically and know the insides and outs of just who we are and what we do.
Um, the good and the bad and the great. Like that should be our goal. Um, because when we get to those places, like, that’s just, that’s a fun life. When I have, you know, 15, 20, 30 people around me that I know have my back 100%. Um, even when I’m the worst, they’re going to believe the best about me, even when I’m being a complete ass, um, and hurting everyone around me, they still stick with me.
Like we all want those kinds of relationships. Um, and oftentimes we think, well, we find those relationships, um, You would just, that’s just who that person is. But I think we find those relationships because we choose to trust one another. And as that trust develops and grows and strengthens, that’s a refine those relationships.
Um, and if we choose to entrust ourselves to those people more and more, I think that’s where we start to find those relationships. Yes. There’s people more innate to, um, Being that kind of person that always has your back, no matter what. Um, but I think when you get into deeper love, when that sort of talking about here, right.
Deeper relationship, um, that those things start to form and that person has my back, no matter what, um, that, because we’ve, we’ve journeyed long enough together, um, we’ve journey deep enough together that that person like that’s that person. And I’m that person to that. To them as well. Right? Like it’s, it’s both hand if it’s one way, then there’s someone held somewhere going along the way it’s not working, but, um, dig into that.
So I think we go back to the practical piece. Um, I think it’s probably safe to ask, um, those that you consider close friends, um, your spouse, um, those that you could consider know you well to ask, like how authentic of a person or how. Like, do you think, you know, the authentic me fair question to ask? I think, yeah.
I think it would be eyeopening for some of like, Oh, like one I’m more authentic. You think I’m more thankful than I really am. Um, so I’ve got this other facade going on of like, I got this image of authentic or it’s the other side of like, I think I’m more authentic than you think I am and now I’m looking and it’s not, and we gotta be so careful we go down these roads, right.
It’s not a matter of I’m going to manage my image in those things. Like that’s not the goal. The goal is relationship. Because we can manage image really well. We see people do it all day long. Like image management is a, is a, uh, art form and a science of humanity. And we’re good at it. Yeah, we’re not talking about that.
We’re talking about true relationship here. We’re talking about authentic relationship. This is just who I am. And you got to know me for me. We go to the bat. I’m just gotta be okay with that. And I got to be okay with you seeing the bad parts about me, because there’s relationship in that. There’s love in that when you have this image that you’re just perfect all the time.
Well, I’m not perfect all the time. So like, I’m not going to be able to meet your standards of you’re perfect all the time. So we’re probably not gonna be good friends, but when you’re like, Oh, you’re a screw up too. Hummus grew up, dude, knuckles, right? Like, there’s that piece of it for like, we’re in this together, we get it.
Um, and I think that it goes along with all, we’ve set up to this point, the humility and patience and all of these things kind of coming together and, um, you know, looking at him in the big picture of the context. Um, so I think to, to kind of close this up, Andrew, um, I think some of the things we’ve written down, I wrote down since.
Since we’ve been talking, try to keep our thoughts straight. Cause you might not have noticed this cause we’re just one of that good. But our call may have disconnected a handful of times. He just tried
Josh: use it twice and we might’ve wasted at least 30 minutes for the content we’re Andrew and I were just talking to each other, which is fine.
And she shipped for us. It’s just helpful to get content. Right. But here’s the, here’s the kind of the things that I wrote down is you and I are talking authentic. I think is huge and key. You’ve got to be you, no matter what environment you are in. Now, the levels of entrusting yourself to, to people are going to grow as you deepen relationship with those people, but you’ve gotta be authentic.
Um, if you can’t be authentic who you are, there’s a really good chance. Relationships are gonna be very difficult. Um, and they probably, you’re probably seeing that right now in your life. Um, There’s levels of relationship as Jesus modeled for us. There’s levels of relationship. Um, like some people are going to know you more and know you better than other people, and that’s okay.
I think it’s important to in your own mind to define those people. Um, Andrew is this person to me, um, Whoever else, like I want to make the other names cause no one else is here is this kind of person to me. Right? Like there’s, there’s that piece of it, all these names in mine was like, I can’t say their name.
That’s not fair. They don’t listen to anyways, let’s be honest. But so there’s that piece of do like define those relationships. Like this is. Uh, a coworker, but it’s a coworker becoming a friend. That’s a changing relationship and I want to invest in that. So I have to entrust more of myself to that person.
Um, and, and, and kind of just show them the more of me and the things I’m excited about the things that I’m struggling with or frustrated by, and the things that I’m learning, the things that, you know, I’ve learned, like there’s all those other avenues to just open up, but there’s levels to relationship and Jesus model that, um, and I would argue this, like Jesus had those three disciples.
Yeah, well, Jesus had ministered for three years. He knew those guys roughly three years. Um, like I would argue granted Jesus had to die on the cross. We needed that to happen. Um, uh, and he came here for that specific reason and also to establish his church, his kingdom here on earth. Um, but. If his life continued after that, um, I would argue that that that group would grow it.
Wouldn’t just be those three, there might be one of those twos that drop off of that list. Not because there’s a big blow up or whatever, but because you know, they’ve gone on different, I think it’s, they just don’t see each other as often. Um, and we don’t have, you know, they didn’t have the internet back then, so they couldn’t talk to you to the same way.
Um, but. The second they saw each other. It pick right back where they left off. Like we all have those kinds of friendships, but I think that group would have grown. Uh, I think we would have seen more and more people join. Those three that Jesus had as his life continued to happen because he was moving more and more people to deeper relationship with him.
And relationship is the key to all this, um, I think in other ways we should always be moving towards trust. Um, like we’ve said, trust is a journey. It takes time. Um, so, but we should be taking the posture of how am I moving this relationship to deeper trust of one another, um, give trust, but it may be a small dose to trust, but give trust, believe the best about that person.
Um, but then about entrusting yourself, should we should always be moving forward to that. Um, and then Andrew, you have one last one on here.
Andrew: It’s way more fun. Long-term like, we, we talked about this briefly, but the person who has no trusting deep relationships going through this life, yeah. You can probably live.
You can go get through it. You know, you can get old and dive initially when you’re ready, but you’re going to have a lot less of a fulfilling life than if you build deeply trusting relationships. And I would argue, lastly, if you build deeply trusting relationships with people, You can build a more trusting relationship with God and then go deeper with people.
I think it’s both. And I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive. I think they’re definitely related. Um, so I don’t know, men having deep trusting relationships
Josh: doesn’t always mean bearing your
Andrew: soul. It’s just somebody you can have the most fun with, uh, in your life. Somebody that actually knows you, who you don’t have to establish terms every time you meet to like.
They know who you are and they know what you’re about. They know how to make you laugh. It’s a lot more fun. So I think trusting relationships just matter deeply. And I think they’re needed deeply in this life to get through this life. Well, or to get through this life more fulfilled or, yeah, we just need it, man.
And it’s fun. So, um,
Josh: yeah, I hope, and I think too,
Andrew: if you’re listening and,
Josh: uh, Oh, yeah. The last thought I had was, um, can you hear me? Yep. Go ahead. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I got a double now. My network’s bad. This is just a bad day for us. Uh, but here’s my last thought. And you may have heard this said, like, I don’t, I don’t need people because I have God and God provides me everything.
Right. And it’s true. God does provide everything. Um, but there are things that God has chosen to provide through people and you’re missing out on all those things. Have you chosen not to do life with people and not to do life with people in such a way that relationships are growing, that trust is growing.
The patient’s humility is growing, um, that protection and we’ll talk next week, hope is growing. Um, those are the things, um, that, that Jesus has provided, but he provides it to us through people. And we got to do this life together. That’s the only way it works.
Andrew: That’s right.
Josh: You’re listening to our show. It really means a lot
Andrew: to us.
And we hope that it helps bring you closer your relationship with Jesus and with other people.
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But seriously, thanks for listening.