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The Holy Spirit
Episode No. 69

Foundations of Belief series: “Why do you need the Comfortabler, when you are already comfortable. Christians live too comfortable a life and are missing an adventure with the Spirit.” We continue our series in Foundations as we talk about the basics of our faith.

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Verses – Mark 1:20.
Book – Forgotten God.


Josh – Hello hello hello we’re just to en on with you try to live this Jesus life. My name’s josh.

Andrew – Hey I’m andrew and we are this Jesus life podcast josh my friend after many weeks we are back how you doing.

Josh – Yeah, domar. It’s been a while Thanksgiving was fantastic. Hope it was for you as well. It’s funny I Just remember that I didn’t tell you this before the podcast but it’s so dry in Colorado you forget about it.

Andrew – Yes, it was good.

Andrew – Right.

Josh – Um, like we’re on the top of a Plateau Essentially before we hit the mountains and I got to to San Diego is where I flew into and I was like oh it’s so freaking humid here and my dad’s like are you serious I was like yeah feels so human he’s like is it really dry in Colorado I was like yeah like.

Andrew – Right? right.

Andrew – Ah, yeah.

Josh – Shoot I forget to leave my contacts in overnight and I’m waking up with crusty sealed my eyes shut in the morning that is not a problem in the beautiful Southern california other than the amount of people that live there. It’s fantastic.

Andrew – Yes, yes, you cannot forget that yeah man over here in yeah other than the amount of people. The weather’s awesome though, right.

Josh – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah, over here, it’s kind of the opposite. It’s like you know it’s cold now. But it’s humid cold most of the time so like 30 degrees actually feels way colder than 30 you know? Um, but yeah man I think I’d still take the humid to the super dry colorado is beautiful and awesome.

Josh – Yeah.

Andrew – And you can see a long ways because there’s no moisture in the air. But um, that like dry eye man that that drove me crazy even without contacts my eyes would be like so dry out there all the time. So whatever. Yeah.

Josh – Yeah, my eyes are pretty much constantly red and I’m pretty religious about eye drops and stuff but is what it is a.

Andrew – And you’re 1 of the people in colorado who does not smoke pot. Um, but everybody is like hey these just got red eyes. You know we all got red eyes to to you hang out with. Ah yeah, man.

Josh – Well and until I’m hanging out with I Guess it’s just kidding so agree if I did weed I wouldn’t smoke it. That’s for sure. That’s just gonna screw up your lungs edibles all day long. Come on folks.

Andrew – Ah, oh man, that’s funny. Yes, yes, ah, not like ah no, it’s not normally that bad. It’s not mug. It’s not usually swampy but there are occasional swampy days like dc.

Josh – Um, catch up with that is it human in the summer like is it like d d like miserable human.

Andrew – Just feel like you’re in a swamp so when it’s summer and hot. It’s like yeah, it’s just not a good place to be. Um, yeah, yes, dude Dallas oh Dallas is brutal it’s brutal dude um this is a rerecord.

Josh – There it was dc and Dallas where the worst humility I’ve ever experienced like miserable.

Andrew – People don’t know that because the people that listen to our show just didn’t get an episode but you and I secretly know this is a ah this is a part 2 are a take to I should say no oh shoot it was it was yeah sorry people.

Josh – That’s true. Well, it’s not secretly anymore because you just let the cat on the back. Yeah, so everything you just heard folks ignore that it’s still a secret. This is not take to.

Andrew – Just disregard what I said? Yeah yeah.

Josh – And maybe a lie but yeah, no yeah, so sorry if we missed you for 2 weeks. Our plan was to release 1 the week after thanksgiving and we recorded 1 for that. But as I listened to it I was like this is this is crap. We don’t.

Andrew – Right.

Andrew – Ah, and I was I had 1 of my girls and she was crying a lot and then and then the last like twenty minutes

Josh – You know, want to put this out who knows why it could be a rotian reasons. Oh that’s true. That was 2 and like it was a weird time of the day I think.

Andrew – The last like twenty minutes was just you because I was like dude I have to go because this meeting is happening then it was just you so yeah, yeah, sorry I left you hanging I’m right.

Josh – Yeah, yeah, it wasn’t good. Yeah I was not I was not prepared for that podcast and definitely not prepared to lead it for an entire twenty minutes concept this is this is.

Andrew – Ah.

Josh – I Don’t know what I don’t know what I’m talking about right now I’m so lost just rambling and rambling but hey we all have those days it happens it is what it is yeah.

Andrew – Ah, yeah, we ah we were supposed to talk about the holy spirit and Josh kept bringing up like mummies and the pyramids and like all this stuff I’m like dude what are you talking about? Um yeah, his.

Josh – Yes, Iese cats look at everything isn’t siamese cats and the egyptian.

Andrew – Yeah, so anyway, yes I think are you I don’t know I don’t know I think so but maybe I’m just.

Josh – I’m not even sure is Siamese cats there. That’s that’s like a breed of a cat right? Okay because I always thought Siamese cats were in lady in the tramp which by the way terrifying movie for a child. But.

Andrew – Yeah I think so but this is.

Andrew – Okay, right? Not a good movie.

Josh – Watch lydia and there was 2 of them. So I always thought just having 2 twin cats their siames. That’s what you call like Twin cat. So like we are saya means if you don’t please such a weird song I didn’t know it as a brand like a breed of cat for a really long time or a brand of cat.

Andrew – Ah, ah, that’s so funny a brand a brand of cats. Ah did how to tell you and I.

Josh – Like a brand of get sorry I live in branding world. A lot of a lot of my week.

Andrew – Both work in like marketing slash branding. Yeah, it’s a brand of cats. Ah so pet co is coming out with this new brand of cats on Black Friday It’s gonna be us. Ah dude. Ah yeah, so good.

Josh – So yeah and does and does not yeah and does not have a good brand reputation. Yeah, not not a brand new 1 attached to yeah how was your thanksgiving.

Andrew – And so true. Yeah man it was it was good um we did fake fakesgiving so we had like the full formal thanksgiving meal like on Sunday and then it was kind of confusing. Ah come Thursday you know we did that so we could all be together because there were some conflicts. But ah, anyway, come Thursday we had like a pretty normal day. Actually we just did like some projects around the house and all kinds of stuff that was actually like just really good but downtime and then watched football and did not eat any turkey on Thursday so it was weird but um.

Josh – Raising.

Andrew – With that said Janna and ah my 1 of my daughters baked a ton of cookies. It was like every day there were just batches of cookies going so dude between the actual thanksgiving dinner and all the cookies I’ve eaten as well as fudge like i.

Josh – O touch too. Well you got get ready for those those Pennsylvania winters. There’s some cold winters like you need at least ten fifteen pounds of insulation extra. That’s true. That’s.

Andrew – I’m already putting on my winter weight man like it’s ah Janna made this you know trader yes, right? Dude you fudge is not just dessert. It’s like functional. You know you need some winter weight. Dude. you know the trader Joe’s cookie butter do you know what I mean when I say that what.

Josh – No I’ve never I’ve been to a Trader Jersey once in my entire life and I didn’t buy anything when I was there I was over someone else.

Andrew – Dude how how you like lived in California in Phoenix like you lived around. Okay trader Joe’s has this cookie butter that’s like hazelnut chocolate and basically cookie dough mixed in the form of peanut butter. But it’s not peanut butter and Janna mixed that into the fudge that she made and it’s like ridiculously good. It’s like dark chocolate and cookie butter fudge. So anyway, man.

Josh – O I don’t even know people may be honest I thought it only came for those fancy Iny stories.

Andrew – Ah, yeah, that’s dude Janna is quite the baker. It’s amazing. She’s just like she made an apple pie the other day that was awesome and when we were eating it. She’s like this is the first apple pie I’ve ever made what because it was. She’s just.

Josh – Date.

Andrew – An awesome cook and baker. So I will be continuing to add to my winter weight It was good.

Josh – Crazy. What’s what’s your fixed Thanksgiving. What’s what’s your favorite Thanksgiving side dish like what’s the what’s your go to real with you.

Andrew – Ah, dude, sweet potatoes. But I say that because they’re like you know the sweet potato casserole. But it’s like butter and brown sugar. It’s so good that it’s basically dessert but you eat it. Oh yeah.

Josh – You put the marshmallows on top.

Andrew – no no no marshmallows no marshmallows just brown sugar and butter melted together as the whole top layer. So it’s like crispy on top and you crunch through it and you got another layer of that under like a half inch of sweet potato. It’s so good man. So good. What about you.

Josh – Okay, so.

Josh – Yeah.

Josh – Interesting interesting. We had a pretty big debate about this of what the best. Yeah, there was a couple people that were cranberry sauce which I’ll be honest, never never heard that before like who likes cran either saw it was something that nope ever grabbed but like brings.

Andrew – Wow.

Andrew – No no, that’s good, but that’s like top that might be top 5 Yeah yeah.

Josh – Brings color. No I wouldn’t put it in there I would I don’t eat it. No thank you? Ah but ah for me, it’s the stuffing by by far hands down stuffing wins a hundred percent of the time.

Andrew – Ah, that’s funny. Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, but you have to have stuffing with mashed potatoes. So I guess mashed potatoes and stuffing together and then cover in you know your gravy.

Andrew – Um, ah yeah, mash potatoes. Yeah.

Josh – For the last for like my thanksgiving you know leftovers for the rest of the week were sandwiches. So it’s like the turkey put on there put a little bit of the gravy on there but then you put a layer of mashed potatoes and a layer of stuffing.

Andrew – Um, yeah, dude yes that is dude I don’t.

Josh – Ah, oh good. There’s a restaurant.

Andrew – I Don’t know how you would get any work done after eating that for lunch like like how you do anything except nat I bet I bet oh that’s true. That’s true.

Josh – I Took a nap. No joke knocked me out I cried nap I didn’t have to work after Thanksgiving like offth. But yeah, like that next day I Just a little bit of Turkey I was like I can’t I can’t keep my eyes open what the heck so I went took a nap.

Andrew – Ah, that’s so good. Oh man. Okay, speaking of turkeys I had something no, there is nothing better than that dude I had something crazy happen ah 2 to 3 days ago at my house. So.

Josh – Ah, called line bottoming. There’s nothing better than like a midafter nap though.

Andrew – You know I have the woods like right behind my house and my neighborhoods woods and there’s this flock of Turkeys that will hang out in our area occasionally and dude I thought out of the corner of my eye I thought I saw a goose flying over my house and I was like whoa. That’s like super close. So I like turned and looked out. There were literally 15 or Twenty Turkeys flying from my neighbor’s house over the road over my house and to my woods I’ve never seen a turkey fly that far or that high and I’ve never seen them fly over my house. It was like the craziest thing it was really cool.

Josh – What.

Josh – I know it. Ah they huge.

Andrew – There maybe be like 30 feet off the ground just cruising a bunch of them landed in this tall tree I have back here. Yeah, they’re bit like full size turkeys man like no joke turkeys it was nuts. It was really nuts so turkey. Yeah.

Josh – That’s crazy I’ll be honest, them’m landing at a tree like that’s a that’d be a sight to see like I don’t even know a turkey in a tree I’d even know that wasn’t thing.

Andrew – Dude, they were like 50 They were like fifty sixty feet up. Dude they sleep in trees. They find the tallest tree they can wherever they are and they fly to the top and that’s where they sleep all night like so they don’t get eaten by foxes and stuff turkeys are crazy man.

Josh – Huh.

Josh – Interesting. You would think like I guess it’s after Thanksgiving So it’s probably like cos is clear guys. Let’s go but like you think during that season they’re gonna hide like oh know if I was a turkey I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be around people the other the Mo but.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Ah, that’s right, bright. There are all the ones that made it to Friday and they’re like we know we know we’re good for this year so let’s show him we can fly.

Josh – Another year. Yeah, how many do you ever eat jerk outside of of Thanksgiving other than like deli meat kind of turkey but like does anyone ever make it turkey.

Andrew – Another year of life I occasionally around like Easter or sometimes over christmas my mom would do turkey and ham. Yeah, so every once in a while. But. Turkey at thanksgiving is my favorite turkey outside of that is like do we have another meet like do we have a second option you know? yeah no yeah yeah

Josh – Yeah, yeah, I’m not a huge turkey fan but in our family turkey is only Thanksgiving It’s the only time you ever see it and then it’s ham at all the other big holidays or some kind of roast. But yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Oh good old thanksgiving what are you asking Santa for for christmas this year

Andrew – You know, ah it is not super exciting I think Janna and I are both asking Santa for a solid home espresso machine. Um, so I think we’re gonna like pool our gift. You know what we would have got each other and just get a really good or a pretty good at home espresso machine de longy makes these like yeah like legit you know where you like right? Yeah, no, not like ah no.

Josh – Like real not like a cu version of the espresso machine like the nesty or ones or whatever a real espresso or you’re packing your your packing your own coffee and you got the little tapper.

Andrew – Exactly yes, yes you got to have the tamper dude like do it the right way. So I think we’re going to do that as our gift to ourselves and maybe I’ll get you know some small stuff too or something. But yeah man, that’s that’s the big 1 So if Santa comes through on that we’ll be pumped. Yeah.

Josh – That’s pretty big. That’s nice. That’s a pretty big 1 I just did a ton of black Friday shopping as I was telling you before this show started. So I think I’m set for the holidays. Um, like I was going through my have I have a bunch of.

Andrew – But about you? Yeah yes, nice.

Josh – Lists on the amazon that you like go through and like put things in and I don’t think there’s anything on that I Really really want unless someone wants to buy it for me I guess but I don’t want to spend money on it I want to get into record like vinyls I think that’d be blast but like good.

Andrew – Nice.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Good record machines. You’re talking like 400 bucks its like I don’t think I’m that into it I want spend four hundred dollars on it. No thank you and I don’t I don’t think I could I don’t think I could write that 1 off like you know I don’t think I could write off a.

Andrew – Um, yeah, they’re no joke. Yeah.

Andrew – Ah, ah, that’s funny man. No.

Josh – Record player is a business expense. Maybe if I was like maybe I got really creative and I just found like a company. It was like hey you need branding. You need some website graphics work and you’re in the record business are somehow connected and I got to like understand them better. Maybe then. But yeah, right now I don’t think I write it off. So.

Andrew – Um.

Andrew – Totally. Ah, yeah, yeah, no, no yeah, that’s fair.

Josh – Be hard to justify purchase. That’s the problem man the older you get the more expensive your hobbies get just the reality and yeah, any hobby I get into most feel like I’m dropping a couple of grand and you’re like ding it Josh you don’t need any more hobbies.

Andrew – That is the problem that is 1 hundred percent.

Andrew – Yeah, ah yeah, man, well dude. Um do you want to get into what we what we did not know before well we still don’t know. Let’s just be honest about it. We’re going to talk about the holy spirit today.

Josh – What are we doing.

Andrew – And josh and I probably we probably should have like a good pentecostal preacher with us to walk us through how they view the holy spirit because you and I seem to both come from kind of traditions of christianity that just. Didn’t deemphasize the holy spirit. They just didn’t talk about it so you and I naturally just don’t think about it that often as being like you know if you believe in the trinity like being 1 of the 3 equal parts of god. Um, equal and distinct parts of god um, which I hope that’s not offensive to anybody but like realistically I just didn’t grow up thinking about the the holy spirit hearing about it very often at all except for things like through the power of the holy spirit. Or things like that you know phrases like that. Um I didn’t hear about it much honestly in in Mark in the um mark 1 10 where it talks about and in a couple of the gospels it talks about this where Jesus is baptized. And the holy spirit descends on him in the form of a dove. Um, that’s like the most frequent way I heard the holy spirit talked about ever growing up, you know, um, like my church didn’t talk about praying in tongues didn’t. Nobody I knew did that it wasn’t until college that I met somebody who like had prayed in tongues and until I went to church once or twice where people actually were speaking in tongues and that was crazy to me. Um. I don’t know man. So I’m I’m like super far from an expert of the holy spirit at all. So I’m not going to pretend to be in any way but we’re going to talk about some of the role of the holy spirit from our very limited I all’ll talk about it from my extremely limited perspective. Um on it and. Maybe you’ll add to it. Ah some or maybe you’ll be like talking simese cats and pyramids and like things to you know, throw in stuff out there. Ah but seeing if it sticks to the walls. So I don’t know man what? Ah what do you have as thoughts as we introduce.

Josh – Yeah, so like sure for me we I grew up in ah in a Southern baptist church and sbc church and in a traditional conservative sbc church.

Andrew – This idea of of the Holy spirit as ah as a foundation.

Andrew – Are.

Josh – All the way up until my early twenty s and the holy spirit was talked about when the trinity was talked about um but outside of that we didn’t necessarily talk a lot about the trinity though we did talk about the characteristics or the. Role of the trinity and we just applied those characteristics and rule to other other elements so there was either god the father or Jesus so like the holy spirit is in all like reality the 1 that we interact with. Ninety eight percent of the time in our christian lives like he is the go- between Jesus very clear on that he’s gonna send us the helper like he’s a go between us and Jesus and and god the father so we interact with the holy spirit a crap ton but we don’t necessarily give credit to the holy spirit of what he’s up to you and what he’s doing.

Andrew – M.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – But like when we talk about the power of God right? Well we have access to power of God because of the holy spirit We talk about gifts of the you know gifts of the spirit things like you know hospitality and and those types of gifts found Corinthians like those are given by the Holy spirit. So there’s there’s.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Definitely things that like are attributes of the holy spirit that we just don’t apply to the holy spirit we give Jesus the creditor god the credit and in all reality in my world I probably talk about Jesus a lot more than I even talk about god the father or god or the holy spirit and ah tribute both. Characteristics of of the father and the spirit to Jesus and mainly then the biggest reason I do that is we can all talk about god whether you are a christian or or another religion I think we start to talk about Jesus you did you dare you differ differ and trait you.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Why can’t I say that word diff differy entry I can’t get the end of it. Um, whenever it’s 1 of those days. Um you you know that’s the difference between you and and others so people can see that when you’re starting to talk about this thing. So.

Andrew – Differentiate.

Andrew – Ah.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, also really easy to get into the gospel when you’re talking about Jesus so I think for me, that’s that’s typically what I do It’s not that um like there’s definitely movements around the holy spirit you know andrew mentioned 1 of them that. Definitely talk about the spirit more live in the power of the spirit more and all those types of things and it’s not that I disagree with all those beliefs but it’s we just end up applying those truths to to other aspects of the gospel or other aspects of the trinity.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, well okay, top of mind. Um the holy spirit is you know part of the part of the trinity. Um, where it’s like God The father.

Josh – I think more often than not. But yeah, what’s your limited knowledge on this 1 andrew.

Andrew – Jesus christ um, and the holy spirit and you know back even it’s in genesis 1 I think genesis 1 where it’s talking about and the spirit hovered over the waters you know and a lot of people would attribute that to the holy spirit like see holy spirit was there. Ah, right? at the beginning you know, um of the bible and like for all time implied like always been always will be um and yeah, like you were around referencing that we see things like the spirit came up on them. You know, um, even like in the old testament like Sampson. Um, like prayed you know and like got the power of the holy spirit filled him yet again and he was able to perform kind of the last crazy act of strength that he that he had if you know that story. Um. There’s a lot of times like that throughout the bible where it talks about like when god’s power comes. It’s through the holy spirit I don’t want to say like again with all of this like analogies of things that are common to us are always going to fall short because they’re not god. You know there are things that were made by god but I think of the holy spirit in terms of like a force like ah wind or um, yeah, like wind is probably applicable because it can have this crazy crazy force or it can have ah. Limited effect on the the things around it where when the holy spirit is is doing something and moving in a big way. It can be forceful and huge and seen um or it can be very subtle. Um, you know, um, so. Some of the things that that are like the common things I think about the holy spirit are like I said that first 1 where when Jesus was baptized. The holy spirit came down in the form of the dove. Um, when Jesus was raised after being crucified and was like going and visiting. People who had been following him and especially his disciples. He said listen like this is paraphrasing. But basically once I go once I send into heaven I’m going to send the holy spirit to you that will be helper and guide to you um, like that’s going to present this. Close and direct relationship between you and god that has never been there before you know, um, the holy spirit is that thing that like you kind of referenced. We probably take for granted um, most the time because it’s like.

Andrew – Like wind I kind of view the Holy spirit as being the medium that um that is like connecting us directly to God when we pray um with our yeah when we pray when we ask God to do things in our lives and when we experience God’s power in our lives. I Think that’s through the Holy spirit. So um, but with that said like it’s interesting man like I I will pray for things and ask God to move in power like there’s this coworker who. Like has really advanced cancer. Um, and just found out not long ago. Um, she and her husband have have little kids like it’s this terrible thing you never would have guessed you know this person seems super healthy and now it’s like months to live you know. And and kind of past the point where doctors can even ah do anything realistically to treat it. They just can like hey maybe we can prolong your life a little bit if we do this and so in times like that I’ll ask very clearly God like move in your power. And heal this person do this thing that nobody else could do by the power of your holy spirit like move do this, you know for your glory and I’ll ask for things like that. But um, otherwise I Still just really don’t talk about or think about the Holy spirit. And and its role that often I’m not sure why you know I’m not sure. Maybe I’m just comfortable in that or I’m not seeking it out to to better understand the Holy spirit. Maybe I should be Maybe this is like ah a wake up call for me I don’t know.

Josh – Then there’s a.

Josh – But it was I think yeah I think there’s traditions that because the the because they’re sex or groups of people that abused the spirit. Um, in terms of utilizing it for their own benefits. We think like televangelists through the Ninety s the 80 s and ninety s so I think there’s there’s definitely traditions that steered away from the spirit because they just but they steer too far and you had have grown up 1 of these traditions to to not give credit like um like I said the Spirit’s the 1 that we interact with with most often you know in today’s age you know, physical physical Jesus is no longer here. This is our helper this our comforter like it’s it’s the spirit that that intercedes on our behalf and there’s a theological idea out there that. God the father has never left his throne so in this in in the scheme of the creation of the world through the story of of the israelites to Jesus coming to you know, um salvation being established to the church you know coming out of that.

Andrew – Um.

Josh – And that god never left it god the father never left his throne so when we see a creation like andrew was saying and all the things are happening. There are in in that theological thought it kind of it gets attributed to either the spirit or it gets attributed to Jesus.

Andrew – Here.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Since he wasn’t physically there necessarily he may have been. We don’t know how he actually created but it would I would credit that to Jesus like Jesus is the physical representation of god of the trinity. The spirits everything else you look at like god wrestling jacob you know, even in in.

Andrew – Yeah. And.

Andrew – Okay.

Josh – In that story like god is ah attributed to that. Well in the idea that god god the father never left his throne and that was probably Jesus because it was physical form so there’s that that view of how we kind of separate the the 3 you know, um, equal elements of of who god is. Um, that god is the god the father is the Authority. That’s where the power lives the spirit gives us the ability to connect relationally to god the father through conversation through experience through emotion but also um, he’s our access our conduit on accessing the power of god.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Jesus was the physical representation of god here on earth um, he established a lot. We talked about Jesus a lot Jesus talked about throughout the epistles and and the rest of the letters and and gospels in the new covenant. So I don’t think it’s necessarily bad I say all this to say this.

Andrew – And.

Josh – I don’t think it’s necessarily bad that we attribute the wrong characteristics to each element of of the trinity I think it’s helpful to know which elements you’re interacting with which elements carry what characteristics I hate calling god elements but I don’t want 3 word to use persons persons.

Andrew – I Know our language falls short. You know? yeah.

Josh – Persons. Yeah I don’t we’re we’re failing miserably Lord jesus I apologize. Um, but I think there’s that man there’s this this always like reminded me reminds me of the holiness of god this is nothing do what we’re talking about but me just saying that reminded me of this um the ah.

Andrew – That’s okay.

Josh – The the scribes of of the old testament as they wrote it over and over again tradition at least church history tells us our Jewish history tells us that when a scribe came to the word God and even see this now most most practicing Jews don’t write the word God they write G Hyphen d.

Andrew – And.

Josh – Um, to avoid the holiness of god but the tradition tells us that when scribes would get to that word. They they wrote it during that time. Um they would go through ceremonial washing write the word and they go through ceremonial washing again and there’s some passages. Ah, in genesis. There’s some passages and other parts of scripture to you that has got a lot so I could only imagine how long it took them to write those those terms down but I think we miss the holiness oftentimes and holiness comes with Authority of today’s society that we’re we’re scared of authority because we’ve Seen. Ah.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah, right.

Josh – Abuse of authority especially in the church unfortunately we’ve seen abuse of authority so we’re we’re scared to to walk into those grounds but there’s a level of holiness that I think we miss out on from god the father that he is set apart. There’s there’s nothing like him you know.

Andrew – Here.

Josh – That we’ve ever experienced. There’s nothing like him that we haven’t like that we have it that we’ve never, there’s nothing like him. We’ll just say that. Um.

Andrew – Yeah, well and maybe maybe the effective and yeah like I don’t know maybe the Holy spirit is just so good at making us feel directly connected to God that. That are like default is this like I can be I don’t know nonchalant or casual with God because I can speak directly to him you know where like when you’re.

Josh – Yeah.

Andrew – When you’re in a church that’s super liturgical or or has a lot of connection like a lot of things that you do like even in Catholic churches. It’s much more like you know you you the priest kind of intercedes on the people’s behalf and it’s more separated and even. With that dynamic a lot of times catholic churches look and feel and extremely different than like the evangelical churches that that Josh and I have been a part of do and and part of it is like the cathedrals in in europe were like Built. Um. In part to to represent like the awe and holiness and power of god like this is this is not a normal building. This is not for a normal reason this is like over over the top opulent and over the top holy and over the top set apart. So that you understand these characteristics about god and even in our like us american church architecture. We’re just like no like it just needs to be functional like it’s just maybe it can look nice but it’s like make it a physically functional building so we can get. Ah, thousand people in it or 500 people it or or whatever and I’m not saying and 1 is good or bad. But I’m I’m just saying like um there are some of these things that that maybe make us feel like we have more of a casual relationship to god um. In our common lives in our our daily lives you know like yeah I don’t know if that that makes any sense at all. But maybe I was going to say the holy spirit so good at at his job that we feel that direct closeness but I know I don’t always feel the closeness to god that I should. Um, and I don’t always feel the level of like reality that god is holy and set apart from me that I should I’m I’m probably too casual in that relationship often. Um, because there should be like you know this idea of the fear of the lord that is so common in the bible. Like comes down to the fact that like god is holy and set apart and your creator like you are the created. You are not god you know and there’s a level of fear of the lord that comes in understanding like god is altogether different. Ah, yet still loves me and still relates to me personally, you know, um, but it’s hard to like maintain that in my daily life I guess of like a level of holiness. Um, yeah.

Josh – Well I think yeah I think where it comes into play on whether or not you have a healthy view of who God is is whether or not you start to limit God’s power in your life. So like if you if you look at a circumstance or situation. You said God. God couldn’t intervene in that or God doesn’t want to intervene in that because he’s just like he’s not powerful enough right? like I think we get into those places like I have a wrong view of God if I don’t think God can’t Intervene or work it out to to the good of those who love him. Um I think we.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – We get scared of terminology. We find a scripture like the fear of the Lord god’s authority god’s power god being holy and set apart I think we we see we get scared of those terms because we feel like god’s going to control us like well if I’m scared I’m scared of god that’s what that’s why I do what I’m supposed to do.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – I’m scared of his vengeance which yes god is a just god there’s there’s repercussions to our actions. But god’s I’m trying to control us if he was Jesus wouldn’t have had to come right? like the the salvation story would have no merit if if we had.

Andrew – And.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – No choice right? like it was just we’re puppets and gods just pulling strings and you know it’s for his entertainment and amusement that we all exist as Humanity God’s not trying to control us he he really does want relationship with us and and bringing it back to the holy spirit conversation like that’s where we find relationship is through. The the gifts and the attributes of of the spirit and I think oftentimes and I think this is where it gets into scary ground when we don’t give the spirit proper credit and I’ll get there by saying something else. But I Think. We forget oftentimes that as Christians it is humans in general but more as Christians because we’ve been born again like we’re spiritual beings by nature like we live in a separate world than necessary the physical world that that encapsulates us like.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – You you read scripture and I can’t remember the scripture on top head I think pauls said it but like you’re you’re no longer you know citizens of this world. You know your citizens of a new kingdom thinks have changed. It’s like the whole movement through the Ninety s and early the two thousand s if not of this world that was like a brand of clothing or something and they like to make.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – E.

Josh – Stupid shirts that look like other company shirts. Good old good old Christian That’s the good old Christian way. Let’s just rip off current culture and make it Christian ease. You’re like no, that’s not good and you think we’re gonna track people with that good luck. Um, but we are spiritual beings and we we live in a spiritual Realm and.

Andrew – Submit.

Josh – I Think oftentimes with the holy spirit. We we forget that and because we forget that we play by the rules of this world rather than the rules of the spiritual world and this is why we’re no longer interacting necessarily with the spirit as often as we think or we don’t give credit as often as as we should.

Andrew – Okay.

Josh – I think the other piece too is like 1 of the 1 of the terminologies used to to describe the spirit and often find the verse and we’ll post in the show notes but is that he’s the comforter and I remember that there’s a there’s a book called the forgotten god by francis chan essentially it’s a book on the spirit I wonder what? the.

Andrew – Here.

Josh – I think the tagline was like me see Amazon the tagline was like a punch in the face as well for if I get forgotten.

Andrew – The forgotten god.

Josh – I don’t know why that was so difficult to write. Oh yeah, reversing the tragic neglect of the holy spirit is the tagline to this book by french of Sam it’s a great read. But the 1 thing I do remember that I took away from the book is this idea if the holy spirit is the comforter.

Andrew – Oh my old man.

Andrew – So.

Josh – Um, like why would I need a comforter when I’m so comfortable in my life like if if I’m comfortable I’m doing all the same things like I know how it’s going to play out I’ve I’ve laid it all out and there’s not going to be any adventure. There’s not going to be any twists and turns.

Andrew – M.

Andrew – Who.

Josh – Ah, like why would I need a comforter if I’m comfortable and that always that always hit me like Stripe straight between the eyes where you’re like holy crap like it’s true like part of it is american christianity like we’re we’re very comfortable. We’d like to be comfortable. We don’t like to be uncomfortable in any sense. The imagination.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – A.

Josh – Um, we think it’s wrong if we feel that way. Um, but there is a life of adventure I think that we miss out on when we don’t recognize that we are spiritual beings fighting a spiritual battle um with the power of the holy spirit you know at our forefront that it gives us access to the power that that God the father carries like I think we miss out on all that.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – And you know you get to that place oftentimes. Um this is when people walk away from the faith oftentimes they get displacement like is this it like I just show up on Sunday morning I just I just do this thing and you know sometimes yeah, we we serve and sometimes we give is this all that christianity is and the the resounding answer is no.

Andrew – A.

Andrew – Me.

Josh – Like there’s so much more to this and 1 thing I found like as you know our model of of hill city is you know we want to be highly relational because we think inside a relationship is where disippleship happened and Jesus was very clear. We’re we’re called to make disciples. Um, so we’re we’re trying to do that. But you start to get involved in people’s lives and it’s messy like it just is.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, like so messy I Just thinking like story after story of just even you know our our you know in comparison small group of people and just the stories that come out of that where you’re like man the crap that people are dealing with the weight of it. The harm that has happened all these different things you’re like yeah people’s lives are messy or like.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – You know you think you’re you’re booking down the right road and think people are understanding and getting it. Yeah, you have you know you think man this person’s going to be a leader for us and then all of a sudden they just disappear. You’re like what the hell is going on here that people just aren’t ready to take their part of the equation on because they want to stay comfortable.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Here.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – And then they wonder why the relationship of Jesus sucks. You know a year from now and you’re like I don’t really have relationship Jesus I’ve thought about Jesus a long time is because you’ve walked away from it all. It’s somewhere along the way but like I think there’s ah, a higher level at a venture I say I’ll just say this. I think there’s a higher level of adventure that we could be having as christians if we chose just to lean into the spirit more.

Andrew – Um, yeah, that right active and real in in our lives. Yeah, that’s that’s maybe the toughest part.

Josh – I Get to ask for that power to be like used on our behalf.

Andrew – 1 of the toughest parts about like walking ah in the way that Jesus did you know is that you look at his example and the things that god did through him through the power of the holy spirit and it’s like I could never get there. Um. But the reality is each day you live as a christ follower like if you’re taking the next right? Step there’s always something higher that god is calling you to and when they say that I don’t mean like some showier office or some you know bigger. Microphone where maybe he’ll give you that I don’t know but um, but I mean like there’s always a next thing that god is calling you to as long as you’re breathing. Ah, your job is not done. You know like if you if you’re alive as a christ follower. There’s things that god wants to do in and through you. Um, in your life and I do think it’s about like yeah the power of the holy spirit and leaning into it and like I think I was thinking of the the role of the holy spirit being the 1 that propels us forward convicts us speaks to us. Um, prompts us to pray for others. Um I think that maybe is the is the way that I sense the role or sense the holy spirit the most is when I’m like man. It’s 2 a m and I’m you know getting 1 of the girls back to sleep and all of a sudden. You know you’re on my mind or somebody else is and it’s just like hey pray for this person you know where it’s not this big booming voice. Um, but it’s just like I have no idea why they’re on my mind right now. Um I should just pray for them for a little bit and then I do and. Nine times out of 10 when I’m like hey I was praying for you the other night like how you doing um people are like yeah here’s this huge thing going on in my life and like you said with relational discipleship. It’s like it’s a can of worms that is easier left unsaid. Or left ah not touched and and I get it like we’re all busy like there’s there’s plenty to do in life and um, if you’re somebody who leans into responsibility then that ah that always gives you more responsibility. You know? Um, so like there’s appeal to being like yeah I’m a christian so I just go to church once a week or once every couple weeks when I can and that’s it you know, but there’s there’s reward and like depth and just so much I don’t know there’s the fruit of the spirit.

Andrew – You know, love Joy peace patience kindness goodness gentleness faithfulness self-control like that is the fruit of the spirit and you lean into your relationship with the lord and those are the things that can come out of it and they’re they’re not things that are just like. I’m busy so I can’t make time for that. It’s like what kind of person doesn’t want to be loving doesn’t want to be gentle doesn’t want to be good. Doesn’t want to be patient. You know, like why? why? What do you mean like those are all the best characteristics.

Josh – Most most people.

Andrew – You could have like why don’t Why wouldn’t what why wouldn’t We want that like I don’t know.

Josh – We we don’t want it the work that it takes to get those things and all reality is majority of those characteristics like you’re going to get walked on by people people don’t want to be walked on like it’s this idea that’s been running my head for like I don’t the last couple months like everybody’s selfish. That’s the reality of it.

Andrew – Who.

Andrew – And.

Andrew – And so.

Josh – Um, like we’ll use I’m not using this to be political but I read a lot of politics so like Biden’s numbers right now are in are in the pooper I think they’re in the the mid 30 s low forty s depending on what polls you’re looking at and you know often.

Andrew – A. Yeah.

Josh – Oftentimes you know, political analysts like to look at that and say you know it’s because Afghanistan that’s when his numbers starting to drop well if you really start to dig into it. It’s not actually Afghanistan in all reality people don’t really give a crap about other people in a country. They don’t know about that’s just the human reality. The real issue is. That’s when it started to hit their pocketbooks and everybody’s selfish. So Biden’s rating started to drop when gas started to go up. Biden’s ratings started to drop when food prices started to go up when people started to realize and feel inflation like that’s when his that’s when his numbers started to drop because everybody’s selfish.

Andrew – M.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – And the reality with like yeah we all want to have peace. We all have patience. We want all want to have self-control. We want The reality is like sure those things are helpful to us. But if they’re not benefiting me. You know if I was really honest with myself I don’t care like I don’t care to have those things because they’re not benefiting me I want.

Andrew – Um, yeah, and yeah.

Josh – Want peace because peace benefits me but in all reality peace benefits the people around you um, and that’s and that’s what the christian life is all about like that’s the shift and the change that’s happening happening as we walk with Jesus is it’s it’s going to be less and less about you. Um, and that’s a really hard lesson to learn and.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Um, and you know as Jesus you know brings those those truths those spirit those gifts are those fruits of the spirit out in us. Um, and and shapes it like that’s a hard journey. Um, and I think this goes back to the comfortable conversation too. It’s comfortable for me to stay the same. It’s comfort me to do the same things.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – I’ve always done the way that I’ve always done them. Um and look for like little wins along the way so I can feel good about myself. But man we’re missing out on so much fruit if we just chose choose to get uncomfortable like you know you made the comment. You know that Jesus working in you and through you are growing you. You know in you and through you um, it’s a.

Andrew – Right.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Christian term we use all the time through you I think we’re 1 hundred ah 100 percent for the most part more for than in me right in terms of change like through me like yeah I could I could serve in a you know soup kitchen I can serve these but because it makes me feel good. Not necessarily building relationship with those people.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Andrew – M.

Josh – But it makes me feel good. So I’m happy but you start talking about in me and you’re like who for me to love more and do how much work that’s going to be like for me to have true patience see how much work that will be for me like that’s where we start to run into this like no people don’t people don’t want to dig into you know, ah the spirit being of their comforter.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Because they don’t want to be comforted. They like to be comfortable all the time but you can’t be comforted if you’re already comfortable so digging into the life of people digging into those hard conversations with God digging into and these are all aspects of the spirit like the spirit would be our voice box to to God The father.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – And we don’t directly talk to God the father we do because of the trinity. But then we’re getting into wishy-washy. That’s hard to explain I shouldn’t say wishywashy the gray area that’s hard to explain. Um, so I think there’s that piece too of like when we start digging it? yeah.

Andrew – Right.

Josh – Life gets more difficult before it gets better. Um, and we finally get to those places we’re like yeah I Really do want these things and I want to do the work to these things. It’s not work up to you. We’ve said this before like this is it’s the spirit’s job to make these changes in you but you’re an active participant in the process.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – If you’re not actively participating. These things aren’t going to happen. You know this comes back to God’s going to let you do this life Anyway, you want to do it for whatever reason that’s the choice that he’s given people and this is why we have evil in a world Still um, like and because of that like.

Andrew – Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew – Totally.

Josh – We could stay the same for years and you know 1 statement we say here all the time I have gnats all over my fricking house right now they have not died yet I left trash in my fricking trash can when I left for a week and they’re like blown with 8 Oh can’t get rid of them.

Andrew – Ah. Um, and they’re still there. Ah, it’s funny.

Josh – Don’t know what to do someone told me like turn my heat down so I did and that didn’t work so that person’s our friend anymore. Sorry I don’t know what else talking about all that but nats suck and they’re freaking everywhere in my house. They’re like I’m in my office I’m so far away from the trash can. But no, there’s gonna be nats because they hate me. Ah, but I think.

Andrew – And dude. Um, next. Um, ah nets do suck. Ah yeah.

Josh – Yeah I think there’s a big piece of when we really start to lean into the spirit and I’m not saying like lean into the spear for the selfish side of things like there’s definitely those movements. Um I’m going to speak a word over people like let’s be honest, that’s just to make you feel better has nothing to do with the word you’re speaking over that person.

Andrew – Right? right? yeah.

Josh – Ninety Eight percent of the people that are doing it out there like sure if God’s given you a word to speak to someone speak it and move on and don’t do it Publicly don’t make it a big deal. Do it in the most high list levels of humility you possibly can because it’s gonna be like hey I don’t know if God wants you to know this or not but like.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Voice that I just tell you so here you go and do whatever do with it Willever you will I’m not saying it’s the voice I got like be careful with that kind of stuff because I think that’s where the spirit gets a bad name is when we start to manipulate him. But.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah, right? That’s why that’s ah, that’s a good chunk is it’s like it’s hard to understand and there are ah there have been movements and people who have like encouraged hey do this so that you look good. You know.

Josh – Or do this, you get this and you’re like nope.

Andrew – So Then there’s whole reactions of like no let’s yeah, yeah, but then there’s a whole reactions of like no, we’re just not going to talk about it. We’re not going to think about it. We’re just going to leave that out because we know it could go wrong or we’ve we’ve seen it. You know, go wrong in these ways. Not that the Holy spirit went Wrong. We’ve just seen people. Abuse that ah power of God Um, and trying to do that for selfish gain which our relationship with the lord is not about selfish gain like you said it’s more about you know, ah less of you more of me like more of more of God. Being seen in and through your life and less of you being seen in and through your life and I think the holy spirit guides that process and and guides it in power and in truth and over time. Um and sometimes in big bang ways you know, like big huge crazy things can happen. But.

Josh – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Often just through the quiet nudges quiet like hey pray for this person hey I want to start working on patience in your life hey I want to I want you to start serving in this way that you weren’t comfortable with before like the holy spirit. Think pokes and prods out of love of like no I’m trying to get you somewhere else like you’re here. That’s great I love you. But I’m trying to get you there like we’re we’re moving that way you know and there’s always a direction There’s always the thing ahead. Um, but. Man I know this is slightly short, but that’s that’s gotta be my final thought I gotta jump in just a sec here. But um I don’t know man like I feel like maybe I should go and read that book by Fracis chan that might be really. Like because I really haven’t put enough time into thinking about the role of the holy spirit and and I feel like that might be something about god that would be I don’t know challenging and convicting and and just good for me to maybe build a little bit more understanding of not that I need to understand it for it to. Work and be true and real. But it could be something that god might want to move in my life in because I’ve just probably neglected that a little bit in my life. So yeah, man.

Josh – Yeah I think 2 like kind of long lines What you’re just talking about like at least in my experience with God and him shaping me and seeing more food to the spirit of my life like he’s not a.. He’s not the spirit isn’t obvious. And what he’s working on right? like you know you said he’s let’s let’s talk you know, creating more patience in your life. He doesn’t tell me he’s creating more patience in my life. Yeah, he I wouldn’t even say he puts me in situations I would say he he brings things to attention about stuff about who I am that needs to die off.

Andrew – Here.

Andrew – Yeah, exactly yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, that isn’t helpful that isn’t that is actually causing harm to my life and to lives of those around me and dealing with that kind of stuff starts to produce more godly fruit in my life for spiritual fruit in my life and because it’s becoming less of me and more of God but it takes like.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – It takes the humility to have those hard conversations and then it takes the obedience to do what feel like small things at least for me. Um, that end up piling up to become really big things but you don’t like the spirit’s really good at what he does like it’s not like he’s not like okay today we’re going to get rid of this specific thing in your life and you’re like holy crap.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – That seems really hard and a lot of work. It’s a I want you just I want you to notice this? Oh you’ve noticed this now. Awesome I want you to do this when you notice this great now that you’re noticing and doing these things I want you to teach someone else. The same thing that I’m teaching you um, which by the way reinforces. That’s scientific right? there. Thank you Lord jesus for living in the world of that. But um, like it’s those small things and then six months go down the road and you’re like holy crap like the last time I was in this situation I blew a gasket and I was livid and now doesn’t even face me how the hell did I get here.

Andrew – Yeah. Yeah, yeah, right right.

Josh – But it’s those types of things that that most of the time growth shocks you because you don’t realize what the spirit’s been up to you all this time or what Jesus has been up to whoever you’re giving credit to it was the spirit that was doing the speaking by the way. Um, but yeah I think there’s an adventure that’s found with the spirit that we don’t necessarily tap into as christians. And adventure when I say adventure I mean like the unknown we don’t know how something’s going to play out. That’s an adventure to me. Um, could be a variety of different physical things that you’re doing or environments that you’re in but like that’s the adventure part of like I don’t which for me like my personality I want to know how it’s going to play out I want to know what’s going to happen I’m going to do my research to figure out as most.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Possibly can’t and know what’s going to happen when it happens but there’s always going to be the surprises in there and you got to be okay with that to you. But yeah I think that’s my final thought I think I think for the spirit I grew up in a tradition that was that was terrified of abusing um the spirit or their views in the spirit.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Here.

Josh – Um, and manipulating controlling people for their own personal benefit and gain. Um, so they just ran from it I think by running from it. We got really comfortable with what we know about God and what we know about what what we thought we knew about what God wanted us to do that. We completely missed out of.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Like just look at it from the perspective like the the great commission. The last thing that Jesus told his church to do. What’s the percentage of people actually living that out in the low digits if that percentage wise that’s not even in you know, even in the world that I run in erwin in the the discipleship you know, relational discipleship world where.

Andrew – Um, sure. Yeah.

Josh – That’s our goal as churches. Um, and even in those goals as churches I was just talking to a pastor. They’re a church about Fifteen Thousand seventeen hundred um post covered um and they’re trying to figure out who they all their disciples disciple makers are.

Andrew – Um. In Wow. Wow.

Josh – And they have somewhere around 48 nine disccile makers in a church of 1500 like and they’re intentionally if it’s built into their structure of how they run their church trying to do this and that’s their success rate like people like to stay selfish. We don’t like to change we like to be comfortable.

Andrew – Wow. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Like to do what I want to do when I want to do it and the second we get involved the people’s lives. There’s too many unknowns and it freaks us out. But that’s the life of the spirit that we can. We can dig into and live into and watch god speak to us through those things but dude I think we I think we nailed it much better than last time. That’s for sure.

Andrew – Dang Man way better way better than last stock band. Yeah yeah.

Josh – Last time was oh I don’t even know. But if you haven’t if you haven’t read forgotten god to take a listen to that Frenchhand it’s an older book. It’s probably 10 years old now I’ll probably go back as angelas as well and and read through it.

Andrew – Um, yeah, but it’s Fracis chan so you know it’s good. You know it’s good whether it’s dated or not doesn’t matter. It’s going to be good. But yeah.

Josh – Yeah, you know we’re at crazy love up princes jane I recommend that 1 to you. But yeah andrew do it as always. It’s always good to see your smile and face. Hopefully you’re not hopefully you get a little more react relaxation.

Andrew – Dude.

Andrew – Yes.

Josh – On this Sunday so you’re ready to go for your crazy week next week I love you I’ll be praying for you and those listening thanks for listening. Hopefully we’re helpful to you this week

Andrew – Let me too bro back.

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