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The Hill City
Episode No. 46

As followers of Jesus, we have hope and joy that causes us to be a city on a hill, a light in the darkness, and a salt that brings out life. Join us this week as we talk about how we get to a place of being the hill city. “In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.”

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Verses – Matthew 5:14–16.
Verses – Mark 4:21–22.
Verses – Luke 8:16.


Andrew: In the same way. Let your light shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your father. Who’s in heaven. This is episode 46, the lampstand.

Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus life. My name is 

Andrew: Josh. Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast. We’re back we’re back. 

Josh: It feels like it’s been a long time since we recorded. I guess it’s only been a week, but we’ve both been crazy busy, so it’s great. It does try to keep my eyes.

Andrew: Yeah. You just traveled back across most of the country. Let me ask, did your, we talked about this to cheer neighbors, sell all of your stuff, uh, at your house, or did you come back

Josh: getting the trash bag that I pulled out? Uh, to take to the dumpster before I left, I left that on my, in the middle of my kitchen. And that was still all smell stinky. Wasn’t horrible. Like when I first opened the door to my house, horrible. But when I came around the corner to my kitchen, I was like, oh, what is that smell?

I was a little rough, whatever time it was two in the morning when I finally got through the door. 

Andrew: Good thing. It was just a trash bag. And not like something horrible that like broken pipe that had leaked all over your carpet 

Josh: or something. Yeah, that would suck. Um, now in my laziness at two in the morning, I didn’t take the garbage out.

I did put it out front. Nice. I was like, I’ll get to it later, but that’s, as far as it got and then going straight to bed. Uh, but I don’t think I slept well last night. I don’t remember. Um, I don’t think I slept, slept well for the last week. Not being in your own bed. Granted, I was sleeping in my niece’s bed.

Uh, so it was like a nice little twin bed. Uh, and you know, they’re used to. Yeah, warmer weather. So, you know, they have the heat going in the house all the time. I live in Colorado and I want it cold. Um, so I had my windows open, but there wasn’t enough like draft running through the house. So no air was really coming through this big old window wide open.

So yeah, it was hot, sweaty. I was on a twin, tiny bed. It had a little hint of urine smell. So there’s that piece. But I knew that I checked, but I think it was the mattress itself. You’re just like, oh, that’s, that’s a win. But

anyway, we got it from time to time at first I was like, is that me? Did I do that? 

Andrew: Yeah, that’s funny. Yeah, man, in two hours, time difference is, uh, is no joke. Like it takes a while to just acclimate to that. And then when you come right back to it, that’s, it’s brutal, man. It’s hard. Well, 

Josh: that was the problem is like I accurate.

Acclimated there pretty well. So like six 30, seven o’clock and then I came home then, you know, five 30 this morning. I was awake. Yes. I did fall back asleep, but I didn’t have any meetings early today. So I was able to sleep in a little bit, but yeah. Yeah. I’m struggling here. So if the podcast sucks, it’s really useful.

Cause he’s going to have to carry this one because I’m still actually, 

Andrew: I thought you were going to say if the podcast sucks, you can blame Josh. Uh, and then you just throw it on me. No, if the podcast sucks, it’s Andrew. Nothing going on. Yeah, no man. I’m like I’m recording Easter. 

Josh: Easter was awesome. 

Andrew: It was actually awesome.

It was, uh, we had home church at our house and that ended in. Which was really good. It’s always really good to have a small group of people over, you know, friends and family. We watch a service together and then like pray for each other and hang out and eat some food. And it’s always good. And then we did all that and then had a little Easter egg hunt for the kids, which was real fun.

But then we like flipped it around. And everybody that was at home church kind of left and like 30 minutes later, a bunch of family showed up and we, uh, did Easter dinner. Um, and after eating way too much food, we then did another egg hunt. So it was like, it was a fun day, man. It was really fun. Um, my brother-in-law brought over his little, like, uh, like three-month old Rottweiler puppy.

Um, who’s awesome. You know? Um, so I just played with the puppy a lot and then with the kids and all that, but yeah. Um, 

Josh: Monday comes with two eggs. 

Andrew: I know. Yeah. And she was blown away cause she started her day with like a small Easter basket that we gave her that had some Easter eggs in there. Like it mainly just had like little stuff, like new water bottle and rain boots and a couple of things that we got her and then, um, a couple Easter eggs and she like, she ate so much candy on Easter.

It was like, it was ridiculous. Just no chance at an app for her. And, uh, she was like just hardly hanging on by like 3:00 PM, 4:00 PM when everybody had left and she did get a short nap, but overall man really good. Uh, but definitely started Monday a little bit tired. How about you? How was it with the family?

Josh: It was great. It’s good to see him. We got to do the DC thing as much as you possibly can. Cause everything’s closed. All I really wanted when I went to DC was I want a picture in front of the fence. So that was really my only goal in life was kind of get, so I did, I got a picture in front of the fence in front of the white house, which the white house has like six fences and one of them is white.

So you can barely even see the white house when you’re up. And I tried to get in, um, and I asked if I could go see Biden. And uh, they said no, and I, and we called it like, I think it was the horns that I was wearing frequently. Oh no. I think that’s why I wasn’t allowed to. 

Andrew: Yeah, I texted you I’m like 

Josh: orange, but uh, yeah.

Yeah, but it was good

to get the Bible museum on Monday afternoon. It was Monday. Um, but that was, that was pretty slick. I was, I didn’t know what to expect rather 

Andrew: with it. Yeah. Pretty 

Josh: awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It was the, uh, well, even just to see the old Bibles and then it kind of takes, there’s a lot of different areas or experiences.

Um, and they take you through like how the Bible was built in general. Um, through like, even like pulling in the dead sea scrolls, they have bits and pieces of that. Um, and then I’ll all the different versions of the Bible, all of 

Andrew: dead sea scrolls. 

Josh: Yeah. The deal, they did a lot better job with the old Testament or what they call the Hebrew Bible, um, than the new Testament.

So I was a little like, come on guys. Um, but it’s a bunch of different groups, so it’s not just a Christian museum. It’s, it’s an honoring all that, that follows the sacred texts. So. Even like LDS Bibles were in there. Um, but then like, there is this like walk experience of the old of the old covenant, um, where like goes to like creation and that it’s like, all it’s not interactive, but like you’re in the midst of the story.

So like everything happens around you. They use a lot of video screens and lights and sounds. And, uh, my, uh, three-year-old niece, I was thinking rage, the whole nieces with us. And she wanted no part of it. She was, she was terrified. Um, religious fair. And, uh, so that was cool. And then we’re like, oh, there’s a new Testament one, let’s check this out.

Then it’d be the same thing. And it was just a cartoon video. And I was like, come on guys, like, here’s the hope of the world right here? Reveal. 

Andrew: They’re like, yeah, we are really.

Josh: Yeah. Well, that’s like where all the juicy stuff is, right? Like that’s where the, the fun storytelling is. We don’t get the same in the, in the new Testament, but, um, no, it was good experience. I’m glad I went. Um, I’d definitely recommend it to, to those be interested in, and it’s open. It’s one of the very few things open in DC.

Oh, wow. Yeah. All the outside stuff opens. Like you could go see it, uh, than Lincoln Memorial and the national wall walk by, um, the Washington county or the Washington monument. And then I got on one of those little scooter things and rented that and wrote up to the white house because I needed a picture in front of the wall.

Of course did that. And then, uh, we went back to the Bible as you, on our way out. We drove by the Capitol. Um, nice and saw that from a distance. Uh, cause that’s still all boarded up, uh, Supreme court. Wow. Wow. That’s crazy. Any guards I was with my sister-in-law and she said, oh yeah, there used to be another, another outer fence.

And she said that was taken down. So we got closer then than she’s been able to before. And there was, there was only like a handful of guards, you know, national guard, people with the other regular guards at the like entrances kind of thing. It wasn’t as many as there used to be. So it’s starting to die down.

Um, my brother leaves in like a month, so like, he’s not, he, you know, he’s only been there during lockdown, so he hasn’t been able to go through all the museums and all that kind of stuff that they have there, which is some pretty sweet museums. 

Andrew: That’s a definite bummer, especially because this is like the perfect time to go to DC because it gets so like lava hot and then freezing cold for a big part of the year.

So spring is like the ideal time. You know, 

Josh: when we first got into town, we went down just so my mom could see what’s the, what’s the tree that blooms this time of year cherry, cherry blossoms. Yes. Cherry blossoms. So we went to DC to see all the cherry blossoms, which is like, It’s like for all the Instagram models and influencers that like gotta get their, their sweet, cool looking photos in front of the pink trees.

So it was a lot of that going on. Supposedly

I wasn’t super into like, yeah, I gotta get my Instagram photo. 

Andrew: I don’t know, man. You had some splashy cherry blossom photos I saw. That’s not a few, you know, 

Josh: did I send you the ones with my shirt off? Those were the best is just 

Andrew: for on your backup Instagram 

Josh: account, right? Um, uh, yeah. My secret Instagram account secret instantly tell my closest friends 

Andrew: about it.

His secret Instagram is called this Jesus life podcast, and you should go 

Josh: follow it and help promote every photo is coming soon. There’s 

Andrew: quite a few shirtless cherry blossom photos on there. Um, 

Josh: yeah, go check it out. It’s funny. Michael Jordan movie being filmed at the Lincoln Memorial. So I waited around there for a while.

This watch see Michael Jordan, uh, but he never showed up. So I took pictures of like whatever was being recorded in that moment. I tried to get into the, the shot. They had like a bunch of extras walking in the background. They all got to take off their masks. Not that I had a mask on, I was outside, but, um, Most people did.

So I was going to walk in and see if I could get in the shot. Um, but uh, some undercover set director caught me really fast. I didn’t even realize that she was a part of it. I was like, dang it. I, to be like, Michael Jordan, let me, let me 

Andrew: trip. Yeah. Yeah. It’d be nice to be in a movie just like for a half second.

Like there am there. I am, 

Josh: you know, you’ve been given a credit. I don’t need a credit. I just need to be able to point and say that’s me exactly. 

Andrew: Just enough for a screenshot. You’re good to 

Josh: go. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, man. I’ll just photo my shopping myself. I didn’t say that I was there. 

Andrew: Right. That’s fair, dude.

We have been, we’ve been at it for awhile in the, um, the series we’ve been in about all the parables and a couple, a couple that I’d say just more like Jesus quotes. Not necessarily parables, but we’ve been on it for a while, man. What is this like week 14 week 13 of 

Josh: these? Oh, that’s a good question. I’m not sure.

It’s gotta be somewhere around there. It’s 

Andrew: right around there. Yeah, man. So the exciting thing is that, uh, well, I don’t know. I don’t want to say exciting. I guess we’ve decided this is our last one we’re doing in this series. Um, and we’re going to take at least one week and just like breathe out and then come back with a series all about, uh, we think it’s going to be all about freedom and Christ, um, and likely focused on Galatians.

Um, but before that we have, we have a podcast to do, and it’s not just about cherry blossoms and Josh doing Instagram poses naked, uh, not naked, uh, shirtless.

Ah, I should remove 

Josh: that. I could have been naked from the waist down. My photos don’t show that part. So

that’s something to say about it, but yeah. Oh my 

Andrew: gosh. Yeah, man. So we’re in, uh, we’re in Sydney, on a hill. Uh, we’re talking about that, the lampstand this week and, uh, I don’t know. Do you have any like pre thoughts you want to give before? I give my like little summary story of what we’re talking about.

Josh: Pre thoughts, uh, 

Andrew: or just, I guess, thoughts, uh, intro 

Josh: versus exciting versus 

Andrew: some of the best. Some of the best.

They’re amazing. They’re amazing verses. All right. So today we’re, we’re doing this from Matthew, uh, chapter five and, um, go and read it. Uh, it’s short verses 13 through 16. I’m not going to do an exact reading of them, of them because we really want you, uh, the listener to go and check it out and spend some time with the Lord when you do, um, go and read these and ask God, Hey, do you want to say anything to me through these?

Do you want to teach me anything or remind me of anything, spend some time with this, spend some time with it and, uh, see what comes to that. But here’s my kind of summation of, of this idea of salt and light. Um, so Jesus said. You all are the salt of the world, the salt of the earth. And, um, if the salt loses its salty flavor, it’s really not good for anything because we can’t make salt.

That’s lost its saltiness salty again. Uh, the only thing we do with it is throw it out and let it be trampled on, uh, you’re also like the light of the world. You’re like a town, a town built on a hill or on a mountain, uh, that really cannot be hidden when the lights are on in the evening. Everybody can see it.

Uh, people don’t light a lamp and put that lamp under a basket. They use the light to light the house and light their way in the same way. You need to shine your light before other people that they could see your good deeds and that they could glorify your father in heaven. That’s my that’s my quick version, which I think is about three times as long as the actual versus I can never make it shorter, man.

I always think, I always think this is the time where I’m given the short version and then I have to explain way more. So you’re welcome. You should go read it. It’s a lot shorter than what I actually just said. 

Josh: Nice. 

Andrew: Yeah, man.

Josh: I think the imagery here is, is, is remarkable. For lack of a better term. Um, but like this idea that we’re a city on a hill, um, that we’re this beacon of hope and light, as in, you know, he’s, he’s not talking to Christians, he’s talking about what will be in the new kingdom. Um, so we can still apply to ourselves as Christians.

And because we are the representation of the new kingdom, um, that we get to be this hope or this, this beacon of hope, uh, to a dark world and in a hopeless world, um, that’s just struggling to make it and survive, um, because circumstances throws them from wave to wave. Um, and we get to be this people that comes in and lives life in a different way, lives life, full of hope, lifts, life and deeper relationship with Jesus lives, life being sanctified or changed by Christ to be who he’s called us to be, you know, a more loving people.

Um, not only loving of ourselves, but more loving of, of God and more loving of others. Um, I just think the imagery is pretty remarkable. I think it’s a, it’s an idea or a principle that, um, hopefully when you hear it as a Christian, you kind of, it kind of lights that lamp or that fire under your own bud of like, oh, this is who I get to be.

And this is the life that I get to live. And in community with others, as we live as a city or a town, you know, um, for all to all to see, um, and then there’s a pressure piece to it too, right? Like you’re like, oh shoot. Like, I don’t want to be seen, I want my faith to be private. I want it to be, um, you know, not out for everyone to see, because if it’s out for everyone to see it can be critiqued.

Um, and so there’s that pressure too, of like, man, am I really living with hope? I really, with living with the joy of the gospel in my everyday life, or am I having to. You know, decide to turn it on, um, from time to time. So I could be that example, but it’s not my natural natural position or my natural state.

Um, so there’s that pressure to you that I think exists inside of it. Um, but the imagery itself, like, man, I want to, I want to be that kind of people. Like, I want to be a part of a community that lives with, you know, uh, a light on a stand or, or the city on the hill or, um, we’re the salt of the earth, um, just to bring hope and joy, um, to those that we come in contact with and freedom found in the gospel and restoration of relationship with God through the gospel, um, and Jesus sacrificed like that’s yeah, I want to be that.

I want to be that person, I’ll be a part of a group of people that do those things. Um, so that, that gives excitement. I think it’s just a remarkable imagery. 

Andrew: I agree. I agree. It is remarkable in injury. Um, the, the flip side, the interesting part is, you know, it says you’re the salt of the earth, but if, uh, if salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again?

You’re the light of the world, a town built on hill cannot be hidden and you shouldn’t put a lamp under a basket, you know, shouldn’t hide the light of the lamp. So I guess my question for you is why would immediately. Jesus start talking about, Hey, your salt, your light, don’t lose your saltiness. Don’t let your light be hidden, uh, or don’t hide your light.

You know? Um, I don’t know. I already started talking about that. Cause to me it is, it is hope filled, uh, to be salty and to influence, not just like salty, a bad attitude, but to influence everything around you like salt does when it’s mixed into bread or water or whatever else, you 


Josh: Right. It brings out the flavor, right?

Like that’s what salts is designed to do. Not only is it a preserving tool to preserve something, but it’s also to bring out the fullness of the flavor of that item. 

Andrew: It enhances everything. Yeah. It makes it more, more full and more intense. 

Josh: And I think what Jesus is pointing out here, like if you don’t live this lit way, like yeah.

You’re what are you living for then like, then at that point you were living just to survive or you’re living to just get to get through the day. Um, you know, you’re, you’re living to let food just be, you know, mundane and normal and not full of life. Not, life-giving not, not exciting. Like nobody wants to live that kind of life.

Uh, Right. I think that’s the point he’s going to answer, you know, the reality is yeah, you were just thrown out and I don’t think this is salvation thrown. I don’t think these are just referring to you. I think he’s referring to from a society standpoint. Yeah, no, one’s going to follow those people. Like I’m going to follow someone that like, doesn’t find the joy and excitement in life.

I’m not going to follow someone that, that isn’t looking for for the good in what God is doing. Even in the midst of bad circumstances. Like, no, I don’t want to follow those kinds of people. I want to follow people that, that love Jesus wholeheartedly and it’s just oozing out of them. Um, I want to be around those kinds of people that are, are walking with Christ and Christ is walking with them and they’re being shifted and changed into, uh, this new creation that they already are.

Uh, like I want to be around those kinds of people. Because, you know, the other people, like, you know, the people that have lost their salt in this, right. You know, the people that like, they have this, this light, this light, which is the gospel and they’ve, they’ve placed it under their bed. And like, we know that like, those aren’t fun lives.

I don’t want to be around those people half the time, know all my life they’re that way. And anytime we around, I’m like, this is so draining. Like I don’t want to move around this. And even when you’re in those, in those places in positions, um, or postures, you’re, you know, you’re being draining and you just feel more drained because you’re just not finding the fullness of life that’s found in Christ and the gospel.

Um, and embracing that life we’re stuck in this, like, uh, just mundane everyday. Yay. Nothing’s fun or exciting. I’m just existing, but I don’t want to be someone that’s just existing of me. 

Andrew: Yeah, man. Um, we joke my wife and I have joked many times that like with kids, with young kids that are the ages of ours, like couple of months old and two and a half years old, um, sometimes it feels like you’re just existing or just getting through the day.

Cause you’re like, I don’t know, is it daytime? Or is it nighttime? Like I’m tired all the time. Coffee doesn’t work anymore. I’m changing a diaper every hour or two hours. Like, what is this? You know? And there are days where it just feels like you’re just getting through, but then they’re also awesome days.

It’s not all blended. It’s not all bad by any means. Um, but my wife jokes, like, I don’t know, there’s night and then there’s day. Like that’s, sometimes it feels like that, but nobody wants to stay there and nobody wants to. Nobody is inspired by that, you know, um, not by the parenting analogy, but just the bland, like life where it’s like, there just feels like there’s nothing going on.

There’s nothing, um, interesting. I’m just like plain oatmeal. You know, my life is like plain oatmeal. It’s going to be healthy for you and it’s going to fill you up. It’s not going to taste good. It’s not going to be satisfying, but at least there’s no risk in plain oatmeal. You can eat it three times a day and you’ll probably be fine for quite awhile, you know?

Well, I 

Josh: think too, like when we find ourselves in those default positions, like that’s where we, that’s where we end up. So like that’s what we default back to is plain oatmeal, you know, it’s day. And then it’s night that it’s day again. Um, if we’re not intentional about living this life full of joy that we find in Christ, it’s like, if we’re not intentional of, um, Cutting time out as difficult as it is to cut time out or being intentional with the time that we do have, um, to point it back towards, to point my own heart back towards Christ.

Um, yeah, you can so easily sign yourself in and then weeks go by and then months go by. And this is probably true for a lot of people going through quarantine. Um, and then, you know, a year has gone by and you’re like, man, what did I do with my life in the last year? How did I get here? And we just, weren’t intentional to, to live full of hope.

We weren’t. And that’s a posture that you take, right? Like it’s not, it’s not like I wake up every morning, like yeah. I feel, um, I’m so hopeful. I got so much joy and excitement. No, I woke go this morning, my pillow for the rest of the day. I won’t do anything today. Yeah. Yeah. You could live in that. And then one day becomes two and it just snowballs, um, But when we’re intentional about it, it’s like, oh, what, what can I accomplish today for, for my relationship with Jesus, what do I need to be doing?

Um, to be reminded of certain things, you know, we’re just coming out of passion week and, um, the Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross and his triumphant return. So like, how are we reflecting on those stories and how does that change our perspective on even the mundane things? Even the hard things, you know, I just, you know, I don’t have kids, but just spent a week with, you know, five kids from the ages of 10 to one, uh, all screaming and they’re loud and obnoxious and fighting constantly.

Uh, so there’s that piece of like, oh, do I want to just like, I’m just going to brace this and just like live in the  or like, am I going to live above it and just enjoy what we can enjoy when we can, um, And, you know, even though the rest of the moments, don’t look at it as a chore or a burden, I’m just looking at it.

It’s the next challenge that, you know, we’re set to conquer. And if I walk with Jesus, he’s more than capable of helping me conquer those challenges, um, of what to say and when, and what not to say. I learned over this last week, especially with children, is you got to pick your battles, right? Like not every battle is worth fighting.

Not every battle is worth. Even speaking into some battles you just let be. And that’s okay because you know, you’re sanding the matters 

Andrew: all the 

Josh: time to the crap out of yourself. You gotta be fighting every battle and it’s just not worth it. Now, there are important battles you should fight. Um, but in general, you, yeah, pick them.

You gotta pick them because you only got so much energy in a day. And then you just waste all that energy before 10:00 AM. What are you gonna do the rest of the day? You gotta space it out. 

Andrew: And it’s just no fun to constantly be saying, no, don’t stop. Get away. Blah, blah. Like, it’s just, nobody wants that.

Nobody wants that at all, man. How do you think we’re doing right now? Uh, I say we general Christians in the USA. How are we doing it? Being salt and light. And I don’t know. I do you think good, bad. You think we’d do better? Like what do we need to do better? Cause I know we got room for improvement. 

Josh: Yeah. I think there’s pockets of Christian community.

That’s full of hope that are, you know, completely focused on being life-giving um, rather than life sucking. Uh, but you know, there’s still plenty of churches out there in communities of Christians that are all about the life sucking piece. Um, And I can see how you get there. Like when you start to live workspace, faith, meaning like, yeah, I’m saved.

My, my attorney is secured because, you know, I’m Jesus’s and I recognized the need of repentance and turn my life back towards Christ. Um, but then it’s all up to me moving forward. Like, yeah, that’s an exhausting life. Like if it’s all about me just sending less, I’m like, that’s not the life that Jesus called us to, um, you know, soon in your life is.

Has an effect. It’s the still destructive, whether, you know, Jesus or don’t know Jesus, um, but it’s not our job to conquer similar life. It’s Christ job to do that because he has the power to do that. Um, and it’s our job to focus in our relationship with Christ and let him mold and shape us to be able to conquer those sins with him.

Um, but at the end of the goal, isn’t sending less, the end goal is to be a deeper relationship with Jesus. Um, and I think we miss that a lot of times, and I think that’s where people’s really start to struggle. And when they lose focus of the Christian life is about being in deeper relationship with Jesus.

And when I say that, like there’s multiple facets to that. Um, the biggest facet to that is are we living out the great commission as Jesus commanded us to, or not like that’s the end goal? Like that’s the success or not success when you get to the end of your life, where you successful living the life that Jesus gave you?

Well, how well did you live out? The great commission individually, um, would be the measure of, of, uh, would be the goal to be measured against. Um, but in the midst of that, like, I can’t do that well, unless I’m in relationship with Jesus, that’s how Jesus ends the great commission, right? Like he says, I’m with you always to the very end of the age, like Jesus went to the cross to rest, to restore and reconcile relationship.

So why wouldn’t we want to, you know, dig into relationship with Christ and have the hard conversations, have the great conversations and let Jesus speak into just who we are and what we’re doing. Uh, and then walk with him in the midst of all that. I think when we get into that place or not being the light or not being the city on the hill, um, is the place and we’ve taken the reins back for ourselves.

Um, we’ve taken the control back on our, on our own. And that’s the majority of Christians. Cause it’s easier to teach that, right? Like as a church, you know, it’s easier to teach that, um, you know, all the, all the do’s and don’ts of Christianity, because they’re practical, they make sense. They’re very tangible.

I can point to you’re living in sin. You’re not living in sin. Um, but the relationship with Jesus is a little bit more organic in nature. Now there’s practical things and tangible things we can do to foster relationship. Um, but then those in and of themselves don’t necessarily dictate whether or not relationships being fostered, right?

Like I can fast every, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of every week, because I think that’s the thing that’s going to foster relationship. I can read my Bible every day and I can make sure I pray at every meal. So I’m praying three times a day, but no relationship can be fostered in the, in the doing of those acts.

That’s why our aim has to be relationship has to be, this is what Jesus went to the cross for is to restore this relationship with God, our creator, I’m into my fostering, that relationship and my chasing after God through those things and not just doing those things cause good Christians do those things.

Andrew: Great, man. I. As I was in, first of all, if you’re fasting that often and only praying at meals, your prayer life’s can take real hit, bro. You got to watch out for that. Um, you gotta, you gotta figure that out. You cut your prayer life in half, right? Uh, no, that’s no joke, but, um, man, I was just thinking, I don’t know, as you were talking about the imagery, when we first started into the pair, this kind of analogy of salt and light, um, I like the imagery of being a city on a hill.

It just keeps coming to mind of like a city who got started off strong and then, and built up this beautiful city on top of the hill and then like wanted the people for whatever reason just started saying, well, we just don’t want to attract. Uh, so much attention at night. We don’t want to attract so many bugs.

We don’t want to, we don’t really want people just passing by on the road to like easily see us. We don’t, we don’t want the tribe to come and rate us that can see us at night, whatever context you want to put around that. So they just like 

Josh: one by one, they started like, like, 

Andrew: yeah, we just, they can come in the daytime, but we don’t want them to come at night, you know?

Um, and you just slowly, like one light gets boarded up and another light gets boarded up and then they just pull some candles out of the other one. You know, I’m thinking old timey, not electric lights. Um, But, you know, they basically just take like the wicks out and then board up this one and that one and then, oh, this is really close to the wall so we can leave that on.

You can’t even see it on the other side. And eventually like the whole town is just like bleak at night, you know? It’s like, there’s no, nobody wants to. Live in that town. So maybe they start moving out and, uh, they start going to their own homes far away from that city that was once great and was once loved and was once, um, welcoming, you know, and they just start having their own kind of personal, like, no, no, we’ll just we’ll have our own house.

We don’t want to be in that city anymore. We don’t want to be with those people anymore. Uh, getting out of analogy and into reality, we don’t want to be at that church anymore. We don’t want to be with those people anymore. We don’t want to be identified as that tribe anymore because you know, this thing just happened at another church in another university, in another politician.

And you know, it makes all of Christianity look bad. And, um, you know, I feel like we slowly, maybe that’s one way to apply. This is that we just slowly start distancing ourselves as Christian from all things that are Christian, who are recognizable of following God. And then slowly, the potency of our light is gone.

You know, it’s, uh, now we like, yeah, we’re so, but we don’t want to influence that much. We don’t want to enhance that much flavor. We don’t want to be, we don’t want to be abrasive when you take a sip. Like if you take a sip of the ocean water, we don’t want to like make you pucker. You know, we just want to like, let you know where they’re a little, oh, we can we’ll knock it down a little bit more.

We’ll knock it down a little more. Let me turn that light off for you. Let me step one step further. Let me make you more comfortable to some point where people look at the lives of Christians, people that call themselves Christians and say, you’re no different than me. Why, why are you saying, you’re sorry, I guess I’m a Christian too.

You know, it’s like we sterilize the relationship with the Lord. We, we took away all personal connection and we slowly diminished it so that our salt and our light wouldn’t affect anybody else. And in the meantime, the thing, maybe we didn’t realize when that happened was that salt. That’s not salty is only good for throwing down the drain or tossing out the window, you know, let it be trampled on that’s, that’s better than keeping it in the cabinet and light that lights that don’t light up at night and don’t work to, to fight against the dark, um, or at least help us see why have them, you know, donate them to Goodwill, get rid of them.

Um, nobody wants that. So I don’t know, man. I just, I, I think that. Slowly, maybe for reasons that are more convenient for us in the moment, or maybe we think are easier for those around us, we might take a step back from aspects of our faith slowly over time and say, I don’t want to make Josh uncomfortable.

I’m not going to, I don’t know. I’m not going to pray at this meal, even though it’s, it’s just small thing, but I’m not gonna pray because I don’t wanna make him uncomfortable. You know, even though it’s my home and this is what we do every night, I’m not going to do that. You know, I don’t want to be abrasive.

I don’t want to be salty. I don’t want to be a light that’s flicked on. And maybe over time we just become not that useful. 

Josh: Yeah. I think we’re, we’re on this like slippery slope here. Um, because you can get in this place where like, well, I just have to do all of these things. So people know that I’m Christians.

So I just have to pray or I have to tell stories, wherever happens to me. And those should just come as an overflow of what God is already doing. So if you’re in deep relationship with Christ and you’re deepening relationship with Christ, and you’re walking through that, and you’re having conversations with Christ and he’s shaping different things, and he’s calling you to go certain directions rather than other directions, or, um, you know, you’re living in, um, a waiting period, whatever happens to be, even in the midst of those things.

Like, um, yeah, we want those things to be on display of our lives because then people get to get a glimpse of, of the Jesus life. Um, but we don’t want them to be in display of our life in a way that we’re manufacturing something that isn’t really true. Like yeah. Yeah. If it isn’t an overflow of my relationship with Christ and I’m just doing all of these things, um, and I think it was where Christians get themselves in trouble.

You’re not offering them anything. Right. You’re offering these people, just you living a moral life, and this is what Christians do. So here’s, here’s this, you know, in parentheses Christian life, but there’s no Jesus apart of it. And there’s no Jesus apart of, there’s no point in it. So you’re offering them emptiness, you’re offering them nothing.

Um, but when it’s an overflow of my relationship with Christ and in the overflow, yeah. I want people to experience Jesus, but I want them to experience what I’ve experienced. Like this is what, uh, yeah, I love you. And I love you enough because I want you to feel what I feel in relationship with Jesus. I want you to have the peace and the merchant MITs, the turmoil.

I want you to have joy and hope even when, when things are falling apart around you. I want you to have a firm foundation, a strong place to always go back to no matter what’s going on in life, whether it’s, you know, famine or feast. Um, yeah, I don’t want you to have to, you know, be swayed by your emotions day in and day out.

Your insecurities have full control of your decision making and how you look at this life. I want you to experience those things. I want you to experience what rural freedom feels like, um, and where we’ve come from that perspective than, yep. That’s attractive. And not only is it attractive, um, it, isn’t going to come back void.

Um, when people start to really dig into that and you’re able to talk about your life with Jesus and, and what it’s like, and, and point things back to how God is at work and in different things. Uh, in your life, then you’re not, you’re not giving them a, you know, a bullet goods, an empty bill of goods at that.

Like, you’re going to give them something that’s going to come back and they’re going to be blown away by what a relationship with Jesus is really like. So like we live in that place of like, um, it’s a full it’s out of the fullness of what God’s doing in me and that’s how it’s coming out of me.

Everything’s great. Um, but when we’re trying to manufacture something that we’re not even experiencing, what are you trying to sell? Like now you’re like the, the dudes on infomercial TV late at night. Like you’re just, you’re just trying to convince them and play to their emotions, to get them to do something that you want them to do.

But in all reality, you’re giving them nothing. You’re giving them an empty box. Jesus is much more precious and more greater than that. So I think it comes from that, that fostering. So necessarily art though. There’s a part of our action. There is a 

Andrew: piece of. 

Josh: Of being this lighter, being the C on the hill that you’re going to have this tension of.

I don’t want to release this in this moment, or I don’t want to share this piece of my life in this moment. And sometimes that’s okay. You know, we see with Jesus’s ministry, there’s times that he specifically commanded them. Don’t tell them what I did. Don’t tell them who I am, nothing. That’s always the case.

If Jesus is telling you, that’s the case in the moment, then, then walk with Jesus in that. But in most cases, it’s, Hey, share what’s going on. And if you’re living a life in such a way, it should just be coming out naturally. A lot of us, you’d be like, you don’t even know you’re doing it. People can be like, Hey, you just always seem like life’s just great.

I mean, I know it can’t be that great then you’re like, well, it’s not great, but it’s still great. Right? Like it’s not great in the sense of my circumstances. Aren’t perfect. Like I’m still trying to figure out how to live paycheck to paycheck or, um, I’m still trying to figure out how to deal with just this destruction part of my life, or I’m still trying to figure out how to deal with the past.

That seems to keep coming back, you know, in my mind. And I’m fighting those battles. Um, but in the midst of all that, I’m walking with Jesus. So things are great, right? Like that, there’s that tension in that piece of this Christian life that, um, we get to chase after. I think when we take it, it’s really pride, right?

Like it will take the reins back from Jesus. We end up in these crappy places. So stop taking the reins back from Jesus and let them lead and let him, and you just follow his lead. Um, that’s when life that that’s when the real freedom comes in, um, and I get like, there’s this piece, this is what Paul’s talking about.

Like be a slave to Christ. Like this is what it is. And we will want to be slaves to Christ. We want to be in control of our lives. When we think freedom in Christ is I get to do whatever I want anytime I want. And to some extent that’s true. Um, in the extent that like your salvation is secured by what Christ did on the cross.

So you could live that life, but you’re not going to get to the full life that Christ promised you the life, where you’re just blown away by how God uses you and the places that he takes you and the people he lets you invest in. We didn’t really get to that life, even not walking with Jesus day in and day out, um, in relationship, right.

Like I think too often we pull the reins back and it’s like, well, if I just do all these right things, if I just read my Bible, we’ll do this, do that. I go to church. I make sure I pray before every meal. And you know, I’ve talked about the podcast where I don’t pray before meals intentionally and on purpose.

I get ridiculed for it from Christians, because they think they’re more holy yeah. Than I am. But because my butt, because you’re not, um, but there’s, this is that like, there’s this thing of like, I’m just doing all the right things and you’re like, it’s not about doing the right things. It’s about relationship.

I don’t know how many times we can say it. I don’t know when it’s going to finally sink in, but this whole thing is about relationship. You’ll be blown away by the piece that you have in crappy situations of your life when you give them to Jesus. And when I say give them to Jesus, I don’t mean like, Hey Jesus, there’s this thing at work going on.

And I just want to lay it at your feet right now. And I just pray that your spirit dwells on that. And you just move in that situation for your will to be done. I’m not talking about that. That’s all blessing bullcrap. I’m talking about Jesus. Here’s what’s going on at work. Um, and I know you’re, you know, you can see it too, but here’s, I feel about it.

Um, here’s the fears they’re sneaking in. Here’s the things I’m thinking about. God, here’s all the things I’m worried about in the future of what could happen. If it doesn’t go the way that I think it should go, I’m God. And I know that you work all things out for, for gore, but I don’t want the bad to come along with that.

Good. Um, to get to the good, like, I just want you to take care of all of it. So I have to feel any pain. I can just flow great. Like bare your soul, let it all out, stop carrying it. And for a lot of us, like that’s a practice. We just never, we don’t do with people, let alone with God. Um, like we just hold everything in and we’re just not naturally, you know, reveal like I’m a naturally private person.

Like I don’t share a lot of my life, um, with a lot of people. And part of that is I just don’t think about it one. Um, so even if you’re great friends with me, there’s a good chance. I’m not telling you something. Cause I just, in the moment, I’m not thinking about it. So I don’t tell you and others it’s, I’m just a private person and that’s just how I function.

Um, but when we live in that place of like, no, there’s nothing that’s off limits for God and I to talk about whether it’s ugly and disgusting and, you know, uh, paints me a horrible light or it’s, you know, life-giving and full of hope. Um, we should be bearing all those things with Christ. Um, so our, our emotions should be shared with Jesus.

Um, our thoughts should be shared with Jesus, our fears, or its security should be shared with Jesus. We should be having those conversations. You’ll be blown away when you get to that place with Christ and relationship of how much peace that you function inside of, um, because even when you like bear it all out and then you try to take it back and Jesus is like, Hey, I got this dude.

Like I got this, I don’t need you to worry about this right now. There’s plenty of things to worry about today. Don’t need to worry about tomorrow. Let me take care of tomorrow. Um, and just sit in relationship with me now and do what I’m asking you to do. Now. Don’t worry about step six, seven, and eight.

Don’t worry about step one right now. Yeah, there’s freedom and all that. Um, there’s freedom and walking with Christ in that way. Um, there’s freedom in just experience of like, oh yeah, I don’t, I’m not in control. God’s in control and I can trust that God’s in control. I can just walk with him step by step.

I don’t have to think about the 50 other things that may be going on or not going on, or the fears that are starting to creep in. I could just do what Jesus does. Right? Like, you know, there’s dreams that, you know, in my life that are coming to be, um, over the next few weeks. Um, well, they’ve been coming to me for the last year and a half, but, um, there’ll be public in the next few weeks, um, that, that are exciting.

Um, and also terrifying. Um, but there’s a lot of fear inside of those things. Um, and like, well, if we don’t do this right now, we’re going to miss this opportunity. Um, which is probably true, but I’m also living in God. Um, when you let that fear take over, so we’re going to do all these things cause we won’t miss this opportunity, but God doesn’t really want us to do those things right now.

So why should we, um, When I live in the freedom of God’s in control. Um, I don’t have to worry about all those things, because if it’s God’s dream God’s dreams and to come to fruition, um, it’s not my dream. I’m just here to follow along and, and do what he asked me to do along the way. Um, but it’s his dream.

So let him bring his dream to fruition and don’t get in the way of it. But when I’m like, Hey God, I know this is your end goal dream. And there’s things I have to do to get there, but you’re not telling me to do all these things. And I feel like we’re going to lose the dream. So I’m going to do all these other things to keep the dream alive.

Did I tell you to do any of those other things? Um, and that’s where we get ourselves in this, like this turmoil of like, oh, it’s so exhausting. I got Christianity is so hard to live out how our walk with relationship with Jesus and to live at the same time. It’s because you took control at some point along the way, um, that you were trying to do it all on your own.

Stop it. Stop trying to do it all along. It doesn’t work for you. It’s like he was walk with Jesus and let Jesus do what Jesus does. Um, like that’s where we, I think we get in trouble as the church. I don’t remember what your original question was, but hopefully I answered it. I don’t know. I 

Andrew: don’t think I had an original question.

I think you’re just pushing back on like the, because yeah, the last thing I wanted to do is say, you gotta. You got to pray three times a day and fast two times a week. And do you know, I’m not trying to stack that stuff on people. I was just trying to think about the, how, how people, how salt loses its saltiness and how lights get put out and comparing that to our real life of like what happens cause relationship with the Lord is, is a real and vibrant thing and can be expressed in a way that is salty and as luminous as our friend would say, um, salty and luminous.

But the reality is that any relationship over time, if you neglected or stop leaning into it, it gets a little less vibrant than it was when it started or than it was at its peak. Um, so I don’t know. I was just trying to think through that realistically of like, what, how do we, how do we, as Christians become less salty or less light, but the reality is man, The bar is low.

And when we’re walking with, in real relationship with the Lord, it is attractive. It is filled with light. Suddenly people want to be around you and learn from you and be more like you and want to be your friend and want to know how you tick and why you have hope in a season when you should feel hopeless or why you’re leaning into community when, if they were in your circumstances, why they would want to withdraw from everybody in salt, you know?

Um, or now you’re, you’re building in the face of disaster, you know, it’s like, cause my hope doesn’t come from where your hope comes from. You can have the same hope, you know, it’s real and it’s alive, it’s salty and it’s light and it, it does affect everything around it and it does make impact, but. But it’s also worth it.

Those are things that are worth having. Um, when it’s dark man, uh, light is the best thing. You know, if you’re camping in the Rocky mountains in the middle of the night and you hear a weird sound or in the distance or a twig snap, just outside your tent, it’s really nice to have a really bright light, you know, and when you’re in difficult circumstances in light and in life, and something happens, that’s metaphorically the same.

It’s really nice to shine a light on it. And to have a real relationship with the Lord to go back to, to say, no, no, this is really what I’m about. This is what I was created to do. This is why I can persevere through these circumstances, you know, and thrive through any circumstances. Um, I don’t know, man, uh, it’s, it’s important to have light and it’s important to have salt.

Um, this life’s too hard to eat bland food, you know, like, uh, I know some people have to eat bland food, but, um, we’re supposed to have salty, delicious stuff. Uh, and, and just like, God gives us good gifts, uh, in salt and light, he gives us good gifts, um, through real, real relationship with him that comes through Jesus.

You know, we just celebrated Easter and man, I felt hope I don’t know about you, but like, Praying a standard around the table and praying to thank the Lord for our food and the time we had together on Easter, um, I felt just filled with help. I’m like, you know, this is real, this is, this is the to, I don’t know if it was the exact day.

Jesus died about 2000 years ago. Um, but it’s, it’s a real day to look back and say, this is what the Lord did, um, that he died for us. And he was raised to beat death and to create a real relationship directly with God. Um, for us, you know, he took on the burden of sin for us and that is salty and that’s luminous in my view.

Josh: Yeah, no, that’s good. That’s good. I think we too often. We too often get sidetracked too often take control back. Um, we too often forget, you know, as you just explained what, what Jesus really did for us and what the sacrifice that that took. And even in the midst of, you know, we watched the passion of the Christ over the weekend and even in the midst of, um, Jesus being beaten, Jesus being, um, drunk

as he pulled the cross to, um, um, Calvary and, you know, as he took the nails. And so he took his last breath, the human in those, all those moments, you know, we go back to when Jesus praying in the garden and give somebody that’s not what he was terrified of. It wasn’t the physical pain. It wasn’t the physical, um, Turmoil he was about to go through, um, or even it wasn’t even the disciples, turning them back, their backs on him.

And you know, other than John, no one else being there. Um, and you know, Peter denying Christ and them all in hiding because they’re terrified they’re next. It wasn’t any of that. Um, the English, the Jesus had was the fact that his relationship with his father was about to be severed, um, as he took on sin, um, that, that was the English.

That was the terrifying part. It just shows just how much relationship with God matters in our lives and how much it mattered to Jesus as he, you know, perfectly walked with God day in and day out, um, in as humanly form, um, and spend time with Jesus, you know, getting away from the busy-ness of life to have relationship with God and, um, how he took direction from Christ, even in the small things of life and with decisions and.

Um, there’s just this dependence that we should have on our relationship that I think we so often miss out on. And then we end up in these places where things just aren’t as impactful or potent in our lives. And then we start to Kate take control back, and we’re going to try to do it ourselves because we don’t think we’re doing enough.

And this is where people get into trouble. You know, I think for anything I’ve said this on the podcast before, but you know, Christians get to this place where at some point the gospel isn’t enough. And the gospel wasn’t enough to restore relationship with Christ. So now I get to live in the fullness of that relationship.

It wasn’t enough. So we go down this weird path, we go into the prophecy world and we start, you know, seeking God out to speak into things that aren’t even having to do with our lives. It has nothing to do with everyone else’s life. And, uh, we want God to speak through us, into them. And let’s be honest, it’s pride.

That’s at the source of all those things. Um, or it’s we go down, you know, as the early church did any of the Jewish Jews of the day that came to know Jesus did, and we take on old covenant traditions, um, you know, just so we feel closer to God or we feel more, uh, acceptable the God or whatever the issue is, we just feel like we have to do more.

We have to do more, um, or we get, you know, deep in a Bible knowledge and forget the relationship that exists inside of reading God’s word. And we go down all these rabbit trails and theology starts to shift and change, and we just think we’re smarter than the average bear. So. We go to on that, all these things that we do more for God.

And God’s never asked you to never asked you to do more. I asked you to be in relationship with me, be in a relationship and believe the gospel is enough and then live out the life that I’ve called you to that I, they painted out here in, in, uh, what we call the great commission in Matthew 28. Like live this life out and that’s it.

That’s the whole life. Um, and on the outside looking in, you’re like, well, that’s a lane, simple life. There’s not a lot to it. It’s not complex. No, you’re right. It’s not complex. You’re wrong about the lane part because when you start doing life on life with people, yeah. Going back to what you’re talking about earlier, being the city on the hill, as you’re kind of explaining the different people that we just didn’t want into our city, it’s the same family people’s lives are messy.

Um, that’s just the reality of it. So we really live out the great commission and be the light to this world and dig in to people’s lives. It’s going to be messy, but that’s where the adventure lies. Um, and then you get a front row seat of how God shifts and changes hearts. Um, so they can experience everything God has and then multiply that in to other people.

And you got to play a part in that, even if it was just a small part in that, like, that’s a huge, like, that’s exciting. Like I want to, I want to get to the end of my life and be like, man, look at all the people that God allowed me to influence, um, towards the gospel and towards Jesus and towards being a disciple of Christ, um, in maturing in that discipleship and look what they did.

And I got to play a role in all of those, those areas rather than getting to heaven and say, but God. Did all the right things, you know, I even practice old covenant, you know, festivals because that was the right thing to do. And I know your Bible forwards and backwards. I had it all memorized. Right. And God’s going to say, how did you make disciples?

What did you do for my kingdom? And you’re like, what are you talking about? I did all these things. And then he eventually says, you wait for me for, I never know. Right? No, you never knew you. Yeah. I’ve never walked with me. We did everything. But that, and the craziest part is it’s so easy to do in Christianity.

Like it is the reason people end up there all the time that we ended up in this place of like, oh, I’m doing all these things for God. And God’s like, what are you talking about? No, nothing for me. You’re doing all these spiritual religious things, but like, I’m still sitting here waiting for relationship.

I’m still sitting here at a weight so I can speak into your life and get you on the path that I want you to go down. But man, we’d like to take control back. We’d like to hold on to it ourself and say, it’s all about me. We get in these weird, weird places so fast. So if you’re listening, you’re into this weird place where if you’re listening, you’re not sitting.

Um, you’re not, you don’t feel like you are a light to this world though. There’s a very powerful light that lives inside of you. Um, Andrew, what do you think are things tangible action steps that they could take today, um, and start to live in to being that light, being a place that’s full of life, full of hope.

I’m giving that to others. 

Andrew: Man. I don’t know what the right answer for everybody, but I know that for me, when, when my, when my relationship with the Lord starts to slip, when it starts to be a little less bright and a little less salty than it was the thing that is the best first step for me is to actually just have a real prayer.

Like you were talking about earlier of like, God, this is really what’s going on. Strip away all the religion from it, have a direct conversation. That’s more direct than maybe any other person in your life. You don’t talk to them that directly, but have a real conversation with the Lord and pour out exactly what is going on to whatever your circumstances.

I have one of these in the job interview process, whereas like, The gist of it was like, God, I’ve been through all these seasons of so much waiting. I think this job is the right one for me. Here’s why this is my will. And God, please spare me from this other season. And all the things that it would mean if it takes six months to find the right job and I have to leave where I’m at now and all of that, it was just a real, and it was way more emotional than that.

I was like in tears multiple times as I was praying, um, and just poured my heart out to him. Um, that’s the thing that, that is a reset for me when I, when I feel like I’m starting to drift, not that when I feel like I’m starting to drift, when I look at it and say, oh yeah, I’m just cashing it in this week.

I’m just punching the card, you know, like get, start to feel that after awhile and. Having a real heart to heart conversation with the Lord and pouring it all out to him, uh, is the reset that I usually need to start to move forward and to start to move back into real relationship and back into being salty and being light and be in somebody that’s following Christ, uh, follow him in the way of Christ for the right reasons.

Not to not to look good, not to just make converts who look like me, but to live this Jesus life fully and truly, um, in real relationship with the Lord. So that’s what does it for me, man, is, is a hard reset. Um, from there it usually involves some, okay. Now go tell somebody about it because you are a couple other friends that I’m close with.

Um, And then being intentional and letting real relationships flow out of that place of, I just spoke to the Lord for the first time in a long time, in a real way. And maybe I heard from him too. Um, and, and being intentional with that, but that’s usually where it restarts and resets for me. Yeah. What about you?

Josh: That’s good. That’s good. Um, similar to the same thing, um, for a reset for me, I also fast, um, there’s something about fasting that isn’t spiritual and spiritual at the same time. Um, that kind of resets things for me. And in a lot of ways, I think it’s resetting priorities, resetting what’s important getting back to the basics.

Um, but even during those seasons of prayers, a huge part of fasting. Um, so it’s a lot more conversations with God and digging into those things and, um, I just think, and maybe you’re sitting there too, and I don’t know why this is coming to my head, but we’ll give, we’ll just go down this rabbit trail. And if it’s good for you, we’ll give God the credit.

If it’s not Josh’s crazy. Um, yeah. But maybe you’re sitting there and it’s, it’s insecurities that just ravaged your life. Um, yeah, I was just thinking like at a conversation with someone not that long ago, and I said something about my life and they were offended, um, that I didn’t share that with them up until that point.

Um, and even in that moment, you’re just like, man, the insecurities that are winning here in your life, like that’s not, that’s not healthy. Like, I dunno if it’s a fear of we’re going to lose relationship. I don’t know if it’s a fear of someone’s going to get greater relationship. I don’t know what exactly the insecurity lies and maybe it’s a past hurt.

Um, we’re probably most insecurities come from. Um, but. It’s worth dealing with and digging into because it’s just going to wreck relationship moving forward. Um, because nobody wants to be around super needy people, relationally for a long period of time. Like if there’s no progress being made that wears on people, um, they gotta have a real commitment to community as Jesus commanded us to, um, to keep the relationship.

Um, but there’s a ton of other things. Maybe it’s fear that just grabs grabs you. Like you’re walking with Jesus things feel great. And then a trial comes along. You don’t know how it’s going to end and you just, you fall apart in that moment. Um, dig, dig into why that is and have those conversations with Christ and.

You feel like you’re not getting anywhere in those conversations with Jesus, you know, find a trusted friend that loves Jesus and loves you in that order and, and share that with them. Um, so they can start walking with you in the midst of that as well. Um, if that’s not working then, you know, find a counselor that loves Jesus and loves you in that order.

Um, and have them start going through their tools to help you find breakthrough in those areas. Um, I think too often we jumped to counselor way too quickly and we miss out and I’m not saying I think counseling is great. Um, but we miss out on relationship with Jesus and we’re just, so it’s the same thing of like, you know, people that go to church every week, but don’t have any relationship with Jesus during the week.

And their entire relationship with Jesus is connected through that preacher’s relationship with Jesus. Um, and that’s, that’s all they get, uh, like you’re just, you’re missing out on. Good. Sure. Those things are good. Um, but you’re missing out on so much more life. If you just. If you just grabbed relationship with Jesus first and let him speak into those areas and help you deal with those things.

Um, before you started bringing other people into the process. Now the pool play a role. It’s important. We live in Christian community. That’s the matters. Um, but don’t forget Jesus. In the midst of this, everything comes back to relationship with Christ. So what are you doing to foster relationship with Jesus and find the things that are working for you and do them more often, um, try different things and see if they help foster relationship with Christ better.

But don’t forget the aim. The aim is relationship with Jesus, not doing more religious things for God. Sure. All good things. But if you have the wrong aim, you end up in the wrong place. So your aim should be fostering, deeper relationship with Jesus. Do things that do that. Um, and you’re going to be, you’re going to be a much better place.

I would argue even just two weeks from now, uh, than you are right now. You’ll be, you’ll be shining a lot brighter light than even realize. Um, that’s the beauty of this relationship. 

Andrew: 100%. It’s filled with grace. And I feel like every time you take one step towards the Lord in this life, uh, he takes three or four back your way.

You know, he’s always there, ready is always ready for a reset and not just a reset of like, oh, getting back to this mountain top moment in your life, but a real like, Hey, this is where your relationship can be now. And, and we can go deeper in different than it ever was in the past. You know, it’s not a reset to get back to one mountain top moment in your life.

It’s reset to. Build deeper relationship today than you’ve ever had with the Lord. Um, he’ll take you there pretty quickly. So, 


Josh: well, and the crazy thing is like those mountain, top moments are great, but oftentimes those mountaintop moments are built on emotion. Um, and we all know how fleeting emotion is.

Um, you’ll be surprised at how much deeper relationship can feel when you learn how to do it in daily life with Jesus, rather than just living from one mountain top experience to the next, when you remove emotion, at least from that perspective out, you’ll be blown away by the house. Strong your foundation feels, um, as you walk with grace.

Andrew: That’s right. That’s right. Well, Hey, um, Before we go, I think we’re going to be off probably next week taking a break for one week and then we’ll be back at it. And we’re going to be talking all about freedom in Christ and freedom in the Lord. Uh, and it’s going to be good, but Josh until then my friend, thanks for making this happen.

Thanks. It’s not our show. It really means a lot to us and we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and with other 

Josh: people. And it also helps us out. If you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening on and also follow us on Instagram and the Facebook.

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