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Grace Changes Everything
Episode No. 57

We so often get twisted in our view of God’s character and apply attributes to him that just aren’t true. We talk about the most common lies we believe about God and how to correct them. If believed, these lies will impact our relationship with Jesus, with others, and ourselves. Walk with us as we try to break down these faulty attributes about Jesus.

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Verse – Romans 5:8.
Verse – John 10:10.
Verse – John 3:16.
Book – The Hope Study.


Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name’s John. 

Andrew: Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast. Yeah. And again, here we go. Josh, how you doing 

Josh: my friend again, dude? I’m doing great. I missed it. Uh, I know we’ve been off for a week. Yeah. Yeah, and I missed, uh, I miss talking with you.

I miss talking about you. We do present, I talked about you a lot with, you’re not in the room, but that’s a different kind of talk. I miss talking to the people that listen to our podcasts, I miss looking into, you know, God’s recorded word together. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, 

Andrew: dude. It’s the only time you read your Bible is when we do this and you should, uh, talk about it.

Like you should think about reading in the off days, the non-recorded days. Um, but you know, one 

Josh: day a week is solid joke about that. But it’s like, and this is an old statistic. I’ve probably heard this like over a decade ago, but it’s like 70% of pastors don’t spend time with Jesus reading their Bible outside of service.


Andrew: Interesting, 

Josh: interesting. Pretty high number. Well, you talk to, if anyone’s done 

Andrew: the research, I know, I know today, uh, people were doing this during the Workday and Josh and I only have like a limited amount of time today. So. Last night you called me. And we were just catching up on life because it had been too long and Josh had been on a cool family trip and I had been on a trip and anyway, so it was over a week since we recorded.

But dude, I don’t know exactly the while. I know the context, but I’m not going to share like how it came up, but just like the reality of, of all the, all the good and all the lives changed and real relationships with Jesus. Formed through messed up local churches. It’s like astounding, like just that God works through the local church.

So effectively, even with all its flaws, you know, like, I don’t know, he’s still, he’s just good care. I’m working through it. 

Josh: And I told you this quote, but, um, even with, um, You know, the, the screwed up churches and, and poor leaders that exists. Like if you don’t believe in God, um, that should probably a sign that God does exist for the fact that his church still exists and a lot of broken people.


Andrew: Yes. Anyway, sorry. I wasn’t trying to take as like too deep, too quick. I know we typically. Keeping it a little bit late at the front. Did anything, uh, anything wild happened on your trip to Phoenix? Uh, I know yet, like, it looked like you rented out your, you have a huge family, so it sounds like you rented most of the theater just to see a movie and they had some conflicts.

Josh: Yeah, we didn’t really have any cutoff, you know, conflict of top golf we get. So I just did it for the action on the Instagrams, but, um, yeah, we did talk now my weekend, I was in Arizona, uh, in middle of Phoenix, paradise valley. And it was, I don’t know where this phrase came from. Cause I don’t, it doesn’t make any sense to me, but it was hot as balls.

Um, I guess balls are hot. I’m not really sure, but it was hot as hell is what it really was. It was like 110. While we were there, um, less than that, but for the sake of dramatizing the story, it was no less than 110 the entire time. Um, so yeah, we hit up top golf early in the morning. Uh, most early as you can do top.

Um, which is fine. Um, yeah, like you didn’t realize how miserably hot it was outside till you went back inside and you’re like, oh man, this is what Eric. I was like, okay. And they have like the fans and misters blow in, but yeah, it was, it was pretty, yeah. Uh, it was, uh, like, let’s get you ready for the week and it’s going to be a hot week.

Yeah. And then we tried golfing and in real life, not just the top golf and my brother and I made it to nine holes in the we’re like, we’re so done. Like, I don’t want anything to do with being out here any longer, but my dad and my other brother and my two nephews. They, they knocked it out. They did the whole 18.

I was assuming we’d be at the hospital later that night for heat stroke. Um, but you know, that brother that lives in Phoenix, my dad and nephews live in Southern California and it gets pretty hot there as well. So maybe they’re just used to it. And my brother and I are pansies and we just can’t pull it off.

But whatever. Yeah. We went home and then to the nice air conditioned house, and it was a rental, you know, an Airbnb rental. So, you know, all thermostats were set to 65, um, because I’m not paying the bill the whole time. Uh, you had to find all the thermostats, it was a big house. So there’s like, I don’t know, seven or eight of these stupid things, but once you found them all.

That’s what it was called on the, uh, on the, um, Airbnb listing. It’s like something, something compound, but no, it was cool. This is the first family vacation we’ve done in a long time. They were all at the same place, like altogether, usually the hotel rooms. Um, and when you’re in hotel rooms, like we have a lot of young kids in the family.

So one of the parents are with the kids in the hotel room all the time. And you just don’t get to see everybody. Like we have to see everybody this time around. So a lot of late night conversations. Yeah, spur them on whatever. We didn’t have a ton of plans going into the week. Uh, kids were in the pool, probably I would say 98% of the time they were just swimming, but yeah, it was a great trip.

It was good to get away. My, uh, my dad texts us all after the fact. Um, he was like, you know, I was reflecting on the week cause I was unloading my car. Uh, and I’m just really glad. And we’re blessed as a family that, you know, we could spend a week together and afterwards we still want to spend more time together.

Um, yeah. So that’s always, that’s always one of the things he’s like, yeah, we do have a good family, cause that’s not the norm for most people they’re ready to go home and get away from people, but we could have did it for another. 

Andrew: That’s awesome. Yeah. We had our trip to Ohio, um, which was just like a four day long weekend thing, but we went to this place called Hocking Hills, which man, Josh, like I grew up right beside it and I had no idea how awesome it was.

I’ve never explored there. Dude, like, I felt like I was in the Pacific Northwest, like some crazy place and it’s like, It’s so weird. Cause he’ll just be driving and it looks like rolling Hills, like farmland of Ohio. And then all of a sudden you’re on a hiking trail and it’s like this beautiful place, you know, like it was just, it was awesome.

Like huge sandstone cliffs, like all kinds of crazy caves. Like it was just, it was real cool. So. We had a really good time. And for, for the first time, in a long time, we ended up, uh, we were at two cabins instead of one big house, like you were talking about. And I think it was really good for, for this trip.

But, you know, normally when we get together as a family, like once a year at the beach and then probably over like Christmas or things, Um, and we always get one big place when that happens, but it just worked out that we had to get up, get into, and I totally see what you’re saying. Like it was good cause we have ton small kids, but you know, missing out on some of those conversations that happen otherwise.

Anyway, man, it was still great to be with my side of the family and so cool to see my daughter and daughters get to know some of their cousins they haven’t seen for a little while. Um, especially with COVID, you know, so it was, it was great, man. There’s a lot of fun. I think we’d go back there for sure. Um, and yeah, dude, nice way to spend a weekend exploring some place that I should have.

I knew I would have gone probably like 50 times when I was in high school. So. I’d say it’s 2020. I am stoked to be back though. I miss talking to you too. And, uh, I don’t know. It’s good for us to take a week off every now and again, whether we have to for travel or not. Cause I feel like I get the energy back up, you know, around this, but dude, I’m excited to dive into Galatians six.

I think it’ll be, I think it’ll be good. 

Josh: For the nations six. Yeah. Uh, it’s that time of year where, you know, traveling is the norm. Um, so if you just found our podcast and you got a road trip ahead of you, uh, you should go back and listen to some older episodes and catch up with us, whether it’s the Galatians series or you can go back to.

The heck, was it before this parables or loving people? Well, through first Corinthians 13, yeah. You go to the beginning where Jesus habits and, um, you know, you can get my theology on swearing. That’s 100% correct. Like to disagree with me. Um, they can’t argue from a theological standpoint that, that, right.

So yeah, you can go back and take a listen to that one. Um, Uh, what else? Uh, I think we talked, did we talk about drinking at one point? I don’t remember. We need a lot of feedback.

That’s right. That was a good title. Uh, I don’t get a lot of feedback from people on that. Uh, as much as I get from Pete feedback on my views on cursing, uh, and really it’s only three people that have ever said anything about it. Um, you know, typically they’re family. Um, and the, yeah, they’re just they’re wrong, unfortunately.

And they think that they’re right, but they have no way to stand on theology to make it right. Um, 

Andrew: just start with the phrase, how dare you, Josh? How dare you? 

Josh: No. Well, it starts with someone cursing and saying something and then someone else getting offended by it and correcting them saying, you’re not allowed to say that.

And I said, you haven’t listened to my podcasts, have you? And they go, no.

Tell me why you disagree with that? Let’s have. Yeah. You know, they, they try to use the same verses that I use to defend their position. And there’s a, well, you know, if you listen to my podcast, all in good fun, we can agree to disagree, even though you’re wrong. And when you get before Jesus, you’ll, you’ll realize it.

I have, uh, I’ve had other people to, um, make comments about that and be like, man, I’ve never thought of it that way, because really what it comes down to. It becomes sin when you use those words against people, right? Like I’m trying to demean or devalue, um, like that would be my line where you’re now in the world of sin before that it’s just language, uh, maybe not language that you want to use in all situations, because it’s offensive language to some people, but offending people is not sin.

Right. And that’s kind of where we land on a lot to catch you up for those that haven’t had a chance to listen to episode. I don’t know. That’s where I like. Yeah, I was pretty early on, but yeah, actually that’s a question for you, Andrew. What has been your favorite episode that we’ve done or most impactful episode we’ve done or series, if you can’t pinpoint a single episode.

And as I asked this question, just all transparency, I’m pulling up our list right now. 

Andrew: I wish I would have had. Uh, as well. I remember, man, what was the name of episode three without we did I, okay. It w it’s way back there. I only say that because.

Maybe yes, no big booming voice. That was my first favorite. Uh, I’ve had a lot of great moments since then. That was my first favorite, because that was the episode where you and I had. We, I think we did three or four, two or three before this, at least like some that you can’t find anywhere. And some that are actually out there still, um, episodes and you, and I decided like, who are we talking to?

You know, and this is like, that was the first step. So where we recorded and we, we kind of realized like, okay, Like we are here because there’s a lot of people who have like been in the church and are starting to fall away from Christianity or like having an amazing youth group experience. And now like hardly identified as Christian at all.

And don’t have any real relationship with Jesus. And it’s like, how do we have like a real podcast that can reach people in a regular way, but hopefully with powerful examples of what, uh, a regular Jesus’ life, regular, but transformational, uh, life with Jesus. Isabel. And I just remember finishing that episode then like listening back to it later that week or the next week, and just feeling like, man, we figured it out.

Like that meant something that was so worthwhile, you know? So that, uh, yeah, that was my first favorite. That’s what Springs to mind? What about you, man? Do you have one. 

Josh: I’m looking through the list. I don’t know if I have a favorite episode. I think we had a lot of really good episodes, um, coming through the, the love other series.

So first Corinthians 13 is we kind of dissected that and talk from a practical standpoint, you live it out. Um, I think that’s probably like where our podcasts started to make. I don’t, it’s not, it wasn’t a shift, but the podcast started to theme around an idea. Um, and the idea of, you know, our lives are to love God and love people and to foster relationship with God and foster relationships with people.

And we find the sanctification or change of heart, uh, in our own lives. When we foster a relationship with God, um, rather than us trying to do it all. All our own, I think that’s where that conversation started. But the gods series too, like, um, I forgot about these until we were, we redid the website and I was looking at them again, but like, is your God big enough?

Is he in control? Is your God good? Is your God faithful? Those are all really good ones. Yeah. And that was like 14 or 13 through 17. 

Andrew: That was solid. Dude it’s been a year. 

Josh: I don’t 

Andrew: believe spin. It’s been a little over a year at this point and it’s kind of wild. 

Josh: Wow. Looking at 

Andrew: the title you put on there.

Yeah. Yeah. So 53. I mean, I was cautiously optimistic, but I had no idea when we started, like, maybe it’ll go 

Josh: forever. Maybe it’ll go, come on. I’ll talk. I’ll talk with people. If you don’t know. And you’re listening to this podcast, uh, Andrew and I don’t live in the same state and not even the same sides of the country.

Um, and. So there’s a lot of people I know that listen to the podcast that don’t know Andrew personally, there’s some people that do listen that know Andrew and I, but, um, but they talk about you. Like they know you for 52 episodes or whatever, and it’s always. And they like have opinions about you even not like, but like, I don’t think Andrew would say that or like, oh, that makes sense.

Andrew would totally be that person.

Andrew: I feel that way about podcasts too though. I’m like, yeah, I know these people, but I don’t, but I feel that way. I get it. Yeah. 

Josh: You’d be like, oh, I could totally sit down and have a beer with that, dude. I don’t drink beer, but have a beard with that. You like catch up on life. I listened to a hockey podcasts, pretty religiously, most of their episodes.

Uh, I catch and I’d be like, all right, I’d watch hockey games with these guys. Yeah, pretty entertaining. And it reminds you of like the good old hockey days. Like they’re still living it to some extent. So like they have, you know, the locker room talk and like you’re constantly jabbing at your friends, um, because it’s fun, entertaining.

Uh, and you’re like, oh, I miss those days. The good old days of hockey. Yes. But totally. 

Andrew: Yeah, man. Well, we 

Josh: love you guys. All are great episodes. Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of all of our great episodes, let’s talk about another great episode, which is going to be episode 52, which we’ve quickly named looking in the mirror, but let’s be honest that could change between the now and the time we post it.

And it might have nothing to do with what we talk about today. And that’s why we ended up changing the name, but we’re in Galatians chapter six, uh, probably just the first, first half of it before we get to verse 11, which is. See these large letters. I use it right in my own hand, um, which I was telling Andrew before we got on the podcast, how cool would it be to see the original, uh, with Paul’s actual handwriting?

Because all of Paul’s letters for the most part, majority of letters are parts like this. Um, here in Galatians that Paul wrote, but, um, were all written by a scribe. So someone else actually wrote it. And Paul just told him to write it, but. Um, it’d be cool to see his own hands, but we’re in Galatians chapter six verses probably one through 10.

We’ll see how far we get. We may stop and change it up. Um, who knows? Um, 7, 8, 9, 10 are actually a little bit different than the first part. So we might make that another episode, but you’ll just have to come back next week or finish listening to this episode and then come back next week to see where we end up.

We don’t really know. Um, we don’t typically. Read the whole chunk of scripture. Um, I know we say that every week, uh, and we ended up actually do reading the whole thing. Um, but we try not to, because we want you to spend time with Jesus, um, readings recorded word. Um, so spend some time yourself reading, you know, Galatians six, uh, if you need to pause this episode.

Thank you technology, um, that you can do that. Go spend some time with GS and then come back and see if you and I are. And Andrew are on the same page. And if not, that’s great. Share with us what, what God did tell you. We’d love to hear it. Uh, you can email Um, we’d love to read those stories and just hear what God’s doing in your life.

Um, and not just what God’s always doing in our lives. Um, because Hey, we know he’s at work with you as well. Um, as you foster a relationship with Jesus, and that’s why you’re reading God’s word is your foster relationship with Jesus it’s conversation. It’s the start of conversations. There should be things that jump out that you need to pause and have a conversation with Jesus about, um, yeah.

And dig into those things and do that. But if you’re just reading it for information or to check it off a to-do list, I’m telling you you’re going to be highly disappointed and probably stopped the habit because it’s just not going to be helpful to you. That’s not what it was designed for. It’s living and active.

It’s sharper than a double-edged sword. It cuts the bone marrow straight to the heart. Um, we want God’s word, which Jesus is described as God’s word. Write the word of God. And in John one, one. Um, so we know that this is a direct correlation or direct connection, and this just happens to be when, what we call the Bible, the recorded word of God.

Um, it’s not the entirety because Jesus is bigger than just these recorded words. But I say all that to say this, let me read these verses. That’s all I had to say. Galatians chapter sick, six, starting with verse one. Um, Andrew wanted me to use a different word here, uh, his Bible because he reached the NSP, the SB, cause he’s much smarter than I am.

It says brethren. Uh, I’m in the NIV. As I read this it’s brothers and sisters and he wanted to get really specific on what he meant. Men. And I just thought that was inappropriate. No,

this is why we don’t hit record before we, uh, we’re ready.

Andrew: So 

Josh: no know, but here it’s brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in sin in us, Uh, you, uh, who live by the spirit, any of those that follow Jesus, uh, should restore them, that person harshly with a lot of shame and rebuke? Um, no, that’s not what it says. It says you should, you should restore that person gently.

Um, but watch yourself, or you may also be tempted carry each other’s burdens and in this way, Uh, fulfill the law of Christ. If anyone thinks that they’re something that they’re not, um, they’ve deceived themselves. Um, each one should test their own actions. Then take pride in themselves alone without comparing themselves to someone else.

Ooh, that’s a hard one for each one should carry their own load. Nevertheless, I’m the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked. A man reaps. What he sows, whatever sows to please their flesh, the flesh will reap destruction, whatever sows to please the spirit, the spirit will reap eternal life.

Let us know for the proper time. Um, we will reap a harvest, uh, if we do not give up, therefore, um, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. Um, before Andrew, I think Andrew is tending to his little one. Um, I’ll give my first thoughts on, on really the two different sections that are playing out here.

I guess there’s man, there’s a lot of different things we can pull up. We’ll just start at the beginning and work through it. The reality of upset, uh, verse one, um, if someone is caught in sin and those who live by a spiritual restore, that person gently, um, his sin doesn’t go away. Uh, when the church, uh, It comes together, uh, send doesn’t go away.

When a Christian comes to know when a person comes into a Jew Jesus as our Lord and savior and becomes a Christian, um, like since still a part of the picture, and it will continue to be a part of the picture until the coming of Christ. And we get our full new bodies and sin is completely destroyed and removed from humanity is, you know, under the new heaven and new earth.

Um, so since still around, so the reality is you’re going to keep sending, I’m going to keep sending, Andrew’s going to keep sending probably more than both of us, but he’s gonna keep sending. And the rest of humanity is going to keep sending, um, it’s a part of the world. Now, the beautiful part of those that follow Jesus and call Jesus Lord, um, is your sin has been forgiven.

It’s been taken care of, um, and you get to live in, in the front. That that provides you. Uh, but since still causes destruction, it’s still around. I think too often for us as Christians is we like to do what verse four is talking about. Uh, we like to compare ourselves to someone else and we like to think, well, our sins, not as bad as your sin, just so I feel better about myself because deep down, I probably don’t feel good about myself anyways, because unfortunately that’s just the plight of humanity right now.

Um, probably it’s always been this way. We just see it because social media is all around us, but, um, Oftentimes we go, well, you’re  I get to be an ass. I get to be a jerk. I get to put you down and make you feel less than, uh, D uh, value you because your sin source than my sin and not reality. So all of a sudden it’s destructive, um, and sin destructive sin continue to be practiced, will destroy, um, not just your life, but the lives of those around you.

It’s going to happen. Um, arsons, not any worse than your sentence in, it’s still sentenced to still create separation between us and God. Um, and I think that’s where we find ourselves oftentimes is, well, I’ve put like these certain sins in a certain category, um, that they’re just they’re horrific sins.

And because I don’t struggle with them, I can, I can point them out. And, and take shots at people because of it. Um, oftentimes from a place of pride, a place that I lack humility thinking I couldn’t fall into those sins myself. Um, and that’s where you end up in those places. But sin is present since present in your life.

It’s present in my life. Thank you, Lord Jesus, that you’ve given us a way out of that, um, that we get to walk in relationship with you find forgiveness in the midst of those times. Um, but also find, um, more and more freedom from those things in our life. As we walk with you and you change our hearts, our minds, and how we live.

Uh, but I think the next part of that verses is important and it should be talked about, and that’s those who live in the spirit, those who walk with Jesus should restore that person. It’s important to restore people that have fallen into sin because sin is destructive. We wanna address it. We wanna address it in relationship.

We want to address it in great love and we want to address it. And I think gently is a really key word here because so often, because we think we have truth on our side, we feel like, well, we can just bring the hammer down. I don’t know about you, but if you’ve ever hammered a nail in a gently hammering, a nail into a piece of wood is not going to work.

Right. So bringing the hammer down on somebody is the opposite of gentle, gentle would be trying to help them understand where that sin comes from. What’s the root of that sin. Um, walk with them, with Jesus as you help pulling a lot of those things out of their life, or at least bringing it to light. So do you use, can deal with it, um, would be gently helping them through those sins?

Um, not controlling them, not trying to manipulate them, not shaming them. Um, not the position that, that we play into. We just want to. Identify that gently let them know, Hey, what you’re doing, I think is causing destruction in your life. Um, and even with the word sin and, um, it was just the top of my head.

And I’ll be really careful in saying this because. I think you can take this completely the wrong direction. Um, I think it would probably be better to talk about the destruction that, that sin is causing rather than just calling the sin out. Right. Um, I’m not saying like, just don’t use the word sin, um, because sin is still sin, but, um, I think there’s a way in how you present it to people that can be gently and actually.

Um, rather than, Hey dude, like you’re living in sin right now. And like here’s all the bad things are going to happen to you. And like, I can’t believe you’re doing this. Like probably not the gentle response that we want to have. Um, but if I’m coming in saying, Hey, like, do you notice how this is changing this perspective?

Or do you notice how this is affecting this relationship? Or do you notice how, um, you see more and more. From the church and from Jesus and church, when I say the church, the community of believers in Jesus, um, and you know, how it’s kind of pulling you or putting a divide here? Um, I think focusing on those things is a lot more important than, uh, labeling something.

Um, though it is sin though, we can’t change that. Um, and you know, we need to call it what it is, but at the same time, there’s a way to gently do it, um, that I think will actually bring fruit of it. Um, and I think oftentimes as long as love for that person is the key, um, motivator rather than pursuit of truth.

Um, I think you’re going to be okay. And being gentle of helping them restore, um, or it has been broken because of the sin that’s active in their lives. Um, and the same goes for you, right? Like as you look at it, how would you want to be? Oh, I think that’s, is that the great commandment? I can’t remember. Um, do it as you want to be treated.

Is it loving? Is love others. As you love yourself, that’s weird how Jesus works, those things out. Um, but that’s reality. I know I’m being stupid, but that’s the reality, right? Like put yourself in the dude’s the sinful dude’s shoes. How would you like to be restored? Um, and in all reality, if you really thought about it, you don’t want to keep sending them that way, even though you may like it, even though you may enjoy it, you also understand the destruction that comes from it.

Um, so you don’t actually want to stay in it. Um, but there’s a way. Um, you could be gently, uh, prodded that you could be gently reminded, um, that someone in great love coming to you with great care wants to address it with you. Um, there’s a way to look at it from that perspective. And I think you’re gonna be a lot better at gently restoring people, um, rather than trying to just bring the hammer and because truth is on your side, you feel like you, you can take the gloves off and that’s nothing.

Andrew: Man, that’s, that’s a lot of good stuff. And as you were, as you were going, and as you were reading these verses, well, let me just back up the thing that I was thinking about most reading these verses is that right at the very beginning, in that first chunk, it’s like, Hey, when you catch somebody and say, Uh, it doesn’t say it.

Doesn’t go on to immediately say good job. Well done. You know, catch everybody, make them feel bad, kick them out. Like make it super exclusive. No, no. When you catch somebody in sin, next thing that they say is first examine yourselves. Um, like what, you know, it’s not, it’s not, Hey, get on your high horse, make them feel bad.

Get them out of the church, get them out of the community. No. It’s like when you catch somebody at sin, the very first thing you should do is examine yourselves so that you don’t begin to fall into sin yourself. Um, and probably a lot of that is around pride and that reaction that can come with, like, see, you were the monster, I thought you were a seed, blah, blah, blah.

Like whatever, whatever those thoughts might be. But I was just thinking, man, like the, you know, in, in practice, like we all. I think everybody who’s an adult, uh, or close to an adult listening to this. You can probably think back on your childhood, if you want an example, that’s not too harsh. And think of like, when you were taking a candy, uh, you know, candy from the counter or a cookie from the cookie jar or something fairly innocent and got caught, you know, and it’s not this like horrible life changing thing, but it’s.

You know that when you’re the one doing the thing you shouldn’t do and you know, it, you know, mom walks around the corner and catches you reaching into the cookie jar. There’s a moment where you just freeze and go, oh no, I was God, whether you’re a child or whether you’re an adult and, and somebody else catches you and then act.

Don’t want to be seen in, you know, that you believe to be sent or that is sin. Um, and you get caught in the moment and it’s like, that’s, that’s just be real. It’s a bad feeling to get caught. Cause it’s like, we. If you’re sending odds share are good. Uh, you know, it, uh, I know there’s this whole classification of sin theologians talk about like the unintended sin, but Hey, there’s plenty to go around of the intended stuff.

So let’s just focus on that. Like things you shouldn’t be doing. 

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And even carrying that along to like carrying each other’s burdens in the midst of this, like, if you’re going to address it in somebody’s life, you got to walk with that person and help them carry what’s going on. Now. You don’t get to just drop a bomb and walk away.

Like that’s not gentle. That’s not what Paul’s describing here. Um, and in all reality, like going along with what interesting, like shaming. Is a powerful tool of the enemy to attack your identity, right? Ooh, there’s another, there’s another preacher moment. Uh, it’s a powerful tool. The enemy to attack, right?

Um, and oftentimes that’s where, like there’s a, there’s an article or there’s a situation. The news articles are, are circling right now. Um, I think I want to say it was in Colorado, but I could be wrong. I didn’t really read the whole thing. I’ll be honest. Most of my news comes just from headlines. Um, but there’s, uh, a father killed his son.

Uh, his son was like 12, 13. It wasn’t that old. Um, because his son found a video of him, um, taking part in one of his creepy fetishes, which I think was eating poop. I’m not, I’m not sure. I don’t know. But if something around poop is weird, right. Is what it is. Um, but like what shame did in that moment for that man, um, was eliminate, uh, The potential of being like exposed.

Right. And in that case, it went as far as he’s going to take a life and not only taking a life, but he’s taking his child’s life. Like he’s the one that brought it into the world. Um, like I say, all that said it’s, shame’s powerful, it’s extremely powerful people’s lives. Um, so you want to be really gently and.

Gently restoring that person doesn’t mean you just let them continue to live in destruction of their life. Like that’s not loving them. Well, we want to still speak truth under law, but there’s a good way of speaking truth in a bad way. Speaking truth in a way that’s going to help them not, uh, Walking chain and those other, you know, that they’re going to walk it in the freedom that’s found in the gospel.

Um, but a lot of that is you’re going to carry the burdens of that individual. You’re going to walk with them and if you’re not willing to do that, then you probably should just keep your mouth shut because you’re not going to be helpful to anybody. Um, like you’re just going to let the shame bomb go off and you might die.

I’m just, just saying, if the article plays out, you know, your life plays out the same way that it played out in this guy, he might just kill you. I don’t know if the sins that devastating. So from a selfish reason for your own benefit, being willing to walk, just keep your mouth shut. You know, carrying burdens is, is a hard life, but it’s the life that Jesus called us to, um, to walk with one another and help carry those burdens.

Um, And if, if we’re not willing to do those things, you’re not being helpful and you’re not being gentle in calling out sin and other people, if you’re not willing to walk with them in the midst of that sin and help them with that sin. And a lot of it is digging deep into just their past and their life of why is this the practice you’re constantly going back to like, what is causing this?

What, uh, Uh, lack of satisfaction or past hurt and pain or ways to try to grab control. Like there’s always a underlying reason that we’re ending back up in sin. Um, and oftentimes that’s how Jesus digs those habitual sends out of our lives is deals with the past that is causing us to run to those things, those sins.

And as a follower of Jesus, you got to walk with people. Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. And let me just, before you go too far down the walking people side, like that, the big point I was trying to make at that, like when you catch somebody, the first thing to do is examine yourselves. Um, and it’s counterintuitive, but like, if, even if you just take it out of the same context and say at work, if an employee keeps showing up late and you’ve corrected them and talk with them and it keeps happening.

Well, the first thing to do is examine yourself, uh, before correcting them again. And it’s like, well, but it’s a small thing. They know they relate six times. Like we’ve talked about it once already. It’s like, yeah, you’re probably going to be angry and on your high horse and feeling superior to somebody else.

If you’re not careful, And do you have the chance in those moments to have your tongue be like death? You know, like you, you have the chance to annihilate a relationship, really hurt a person. Um, say something that you wish you could take back every time you see them. Um, those are the moments where you have the chance to choose.

Like, am I going to. Live in the kingdom and how I correct this person or how I handle this, or am I going to like boost my pride for a moment and feel good myself, but feeling superior because I got somebody doing something they shouldn’t do. It’s just life and death moments, you know, and back to like the, the reason we’re doing one of the big reasons we’re doing this podcast is to reach people who probably had some of those like depth moments where they like grew up in the church and like, got to know Jesus and had some awesome experiences with them.

And then like the people just, uh, just burned them out where leaders let them down. Uh, peers, you know, stabbed him in the back and moments when they were young and they didn’t see it coming. Um, they, they heard about church scandals and they see how there’s just, they’re filled with all these people that act one way and do other things, you know, um, I don’t know, it’s it’s these moments maybe that, that Lee, or it might be these moments that, um, that lead to so much pain that, uh, caused a lot of people to step away from them.

Where they’re like, oh, I mean, I was just asking a question. I didn’t really know. I wasn’t doubting your whole religion with my question. You know, I was just doing blah, blah, blah. And people took it way too far, you know? I don’t know if that makes sense, but I think it’s just like, these are crucial moments in relationship where you can really lose people or you can handle.

Handle hard conversations with grace. And when people, you know, like build deeper relationship and show them, you actually love them. And it’s not about you. It’s not about your pride. It’s about something greater than you, you know? And he can point towards, towards Jesus and be like you, but for the grace of God, I’d be right where you are in this moment.

We can change seats. Um, yeah. Anyway, man. Yeah. 

Josh: Well two and like right along the same lines of those, like verse three is, you know, if anyone thinks they are something, when they’re not, you know, they deceive themselves, um, on those lines of, you know, it’s your text tech test, your own actions. Like, I don’t know if there’s a more destructive thing.

Um, especially for leaders or anyone that has influenced. So that’s, you can have influence in almost every situation you could have influence without a title. You could be a mom or dad. You could be, you know, you name it. You’re gonna have influence over somebody or some people or a group of people. Um, and I don’t think there’s anything more destructive.

You being deceived of who you really are. Um, and you functioning out of that, like you’re gonna make more decisions to protect yourself. You’re gonna make more decisions to, uh, That caused harm to other people because you think you’ve, you know, you’re the cat’s Meow when it comes to whatever. Um, and in all reality, you’re not, um, um, normally that you suck at relationship, um, you’re just leaving a path of destruction behind you, right?

Like that, that could be the reality of it. And you have no idea because you’ve believed something about yourself that isn’t true of yourself for so long, and that you’ve convinced yourself that it’s true. Um, and now. You’re living out of something, you actually aren’t in that that’s a destructive pattern.

Like that’s going to cause harm to those you’re with in, in those year round. Um, and to take a break, I don’t know what Andrew is doing right now, but it sounds like he’s paying, so he might be paying on podcasts and that’s a first, we’ve never had a test

now, just like wondering. Oh, all my mind went to is like, where housing you’re doing it. Like, does he have cop? And he’s just doing it under his desk, uh, is his microphone with them and he’s in the bathroom and he’s doing like pee on the sidewall of the toilet. So it doesn’t make the sound. I don’t know, it’d be so there’s no sound.


Andrew: just thought of something I’m sending my wife a text. You call it out. 

Josh: It sounded like water. 

Andrew: That’s so funny. I was clicking very softly on my keyboard keys. Let’s just say that I was like 

Josh: trying to be discreet was draining down something. It’s funny. I was impressed that you felt comfort. On this podcast and so safe that you can urinate in front of all of our, all of our listeners.

Andrew: I did not. 

Josh: But going back to Andrews point, like it’s really important to do the work, to understand who you really are like to, to test yourself and to test your behaviors and why you do certain things or why certain things come up. Like, you know, I’m in the middle of a planning. We just sent a group of leaders, um, to a conference.

And, you know, the response that those leaders had to that conference was, was pretty remarkable. Um, and in a lot of ways it was like, um, it was humbling to me to be like, wow, like, look what God is doing. He’s taking the vision and he’s multiplying it in to others. And. Substantial amount of people. And you’re like, man, just think of the multiplication that’s going to have from this.

As the vision continues, um, you know, to multiply and other people, you know, we start to live out this disciple-making stress. Um, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be pretty impactful. One of those leaders, you know, texted me, you know, I’m really excited to hear the stories that come out of that conference those two days.

Um, and I think that’s going to be a cool thing of like, oh yeah, this is when I got it. Or this is when I started to get it. Um, and then be able to see the fruit of that, you know, and other people’s lives. I don’t even know that those leaders lives just the multiplication playing it up is going to be exciting.

Um, but one of the leaders that went, um, got to know, um, Uh, a couple that, that leads a church up there and a pretty large church up in Denver. Um, and then they’ve made a couple of other connections. And in that moment I had the, what the hell, like I’m the guy in charge? Like why does he get to make all these connections?

And I don’t. Um, and there’s that moment of like, Hey Josh, like humble yourself. Check, your check, your actions and your motives here. Um, what’s important. You’re like, oh, this is exactly what we need. Um, these connections, the support, um, from individuals that have been living this for a long time, um, who cares how it comes into to our community.

Um, let’s just embrace it. So there’s that moment that I checked my own heart and I checked my own actions. Um, and it was a good thing that was playing out. We weren’t talking about sin in that moment. Um, How quickly I went to sin, um, because of my own pride and wanting to be, you know, whatever the, the hot shot, the big dog or whatever it ends up playing.

Like, there’s just a lot of cool things that God is doing to protect our community and to protect me. Um, as I try to lead this community along with a couple of others, um, to making sure that that God’s churches is established as he wants it establish, um, it’s just one of those cool moments. You’re like, man, God, I haven’t really done.

And yet you’re sticking, you know, all these things are sticking. But to keep those things, going to keep the culture in tack and to see it continue to embed into people, the practice of not just myself, but of our leaders is to constantly check our motives and constantly check ourselves. Um, as we start to see things come up, um, and whether or not, you know, We’re reacting to those things in an appropriate way that builds what we’re trying to build rather than so easily.

If sin takes over, um, if we start to deceive ourselves of who we think we are when we’re really not, um, the destruction that can cause, uh, in relationship, not just with, with others that we’re in contact with, but with those that are outside of our church family, and then even those, uh, and then even our, our relationship with God and the effects that it has on their thinking.

We’re so much better than we actually are. We don’t need God. Like that’s eventually where you get to right where you started before you met Jesus. Um, you know, I can do this on my own. Right? You eventually get back there. Um, if you’re not careful of constantly checking your own pride, your own motives, uh, and then it goes right into the second part of, of that verse in verse four, they take a pride in themselves alone without comparing themselves to someone else.

Um, so taking pride in what God is doing in you and through you. Without looking around you to saying, Hey, how do I rank up? How do I, how do I stack up against, you know, everyone else around me and my more godly than they are, because you know, I’m not killing people and smoking crack. You’re like, no, because sure.

If the circumstances was different, I grew up in a different family. I might be smoking crack and killing people. Possibility. I go down the wrong path and I might end up at that place where I’m smoking crack and killing people. Cause I need more crack. Uh, I don’t know the addiction of cracks. I don’t mean to make light of it, but, uh, the illustration works.

So there’s that piece of it too. Like you could easily end up where they are. So, so be careful, be careful to take pride in something that you actually have no pride in because you didn’t do anything for it. And then everyone should carry their own load. 

Andrew: Can I ask you re what might seem like written question, have you ever like, had the chance to like, be at an alcoholics anonymous meeting or like sit in on that?

Josh: Not in alcoholics anonymous, but in Alanon meeting I’ve been in before, which is like, those that have been affected by people that have alcoholism, like I’ve been 

Andrew: to meeting. Yeah, so that makes sense. Um, now I had a buddy who, uh, in high school had like some minor possession charges of a drug. And I do like all this community service and a bunch of stuff.

And attending alcoholics anonymous was one of the. But he couldn’t drive. So, uh, I took him to a couple of the meetings and just was like, well, I’ll just go in and say, cause like, you’re my friend. And I don’t know. I’m kind of interested, even though it seems scary, but like, you know, this from like shows and movies where it’s like, you’re sitting around the circle and it’s usually like everybody has like coffee to drink or whatever.

And like just, you know, nothing glamorous, but uh, somebody will be. Hi, my name is John and everybody stops and says, hi, John. You know, like, or like welcome John, something like that. And it’s just the simple, simple thing of like, everybody knows exactly why the categorically, why everybody else is there. You know, like, oh, there’s been addiction, it’s got to a breaking point and you’re, you’re seeking recovery.

Like you need people to recover, you know? And. It’s this beautiful reaction where like the immediate thing is to not just say, oh man, like John’s an alcohol too. Like, I can’t believe John’s here. You know, it’s not that it’s like, Hey, like welcome man. Like we let’s get better together. You know, that’s worked through this and it’s just, and there’s a whole framework around how they do that.

That’s pretty awesome. Um, and there’s other support networks too, but, but it’s just, yeah. We should be a little bit more like that. Like we should learn some lessons from even simple, things like that, where it’s like you catch somebody in a, a blatant send you whatever it is, smaller, large. It’s like you have a chance to, to, to live out this Jesus life or to make them question.

If this Jesus life is even a real thing, uh, in that moment, every time smaller and larger. My my two year old’s been acting crazy. She’s been intentionally causing trouble. And I say intentionally, cause she’s like two, but she’s doing things she knows she shouldn’t do. And it drives us up a wall, but it’s like, I can scream at her and make her really scared, but like second help.

Like, no, that’s just going to scare her and make her think I gotta hide this stuff when I do it. So I’m working through like, how do I, how do I address these things in her life for the most possible good in your life? You know? And, and, and in a way, That I love her and I care about her and I wanted to understand and see why these are the rules and understand the concept behind it.

And we love her, you know, but that extrapolate that to, to alts and sin and regular life. Like there’s a lot there, you know? So how will you react when we have the chance to feel, think the high and mighty person. I think is just as important or even more important than how we react in moments where we’re caught.

Uh, I think both sides are important, but whether you’re the one committing the sin that you want to hide, or you’re the one discovering the send, somebody else doesn’t want you to see. Yeah, it’s an important moment. It’s a holy moment where you can push somebody towards God or real far from them. Um, I 

Josh: guess, yeah.

Yeah. It’s amazing. Like, I wonder that too, like if you could. Uh, using your daughter as an example, like the power of the gospel in your daughter’s life, if you’re able to correct her sin, um, or at least address it because like she has to make the correction, um, That if you could address her sin with such care and love as the father would with us, um, how much stronger of a believer in the gospel she would be?

Um, you know, as, as an adult and continue to live that out, like I had a conversation with, um, a guy that was in his early twenties and he was talking about how his parents raised him and what they did. And this was probably more like outside of children’s ages. So you’re like moving into the teenage years where your parenting starts to shift.

And it’s less about, um, discipline and more about, um, but he was talking to you just how his mom, you know, would show dis you know, um, uh, dissatisfaction or, um, uh, disappointment, um, in those decisions. Um, and it was important for her to talk through why the decision was made and not in a way of like, uh, Uh, let me put you down in the way, but a way of like, Hey, I want to generate, help you.

Like, so if this happens again, what would be the decision you make and how would you get to that decision? Um, and then talking about the gospel with this individual, um, and how he was able to make those connections of like, man, you have a better understanding of the gospel because of how your mom raised you, um, than a lot of Christians do, because they think God’s just up there, you know, hovering his hand over the smite button where he wants to just take you out.

Um, but yeah. It’s important to, to address it in a way. And oftentimes, like, if you’re getting angry with your child, because they keep doing something, it keeps pissing you off. Like it’d be worth the evaluation to dig. And why’s it pissing you off? I would guess it’s bringing up some previous pain in your life that you haven’t dealt with.

He’s reminding you of yourself and the things that piss you off about your behavior, or he’s reminding you about a relationship in the past, that’s triggering things. Um, there’s probably a reason why, you know, your immediate response is anger when your child does something that, that. Um, would be wrong or we would call sin whatever it happens to be, but yeah.

Oh yeah. Minutes. That’s nice. I was trying to figure out how to end it and then close it. But we have five minutes to talk about something 

Andrew: we want to talk about. I realized that I got a few more minutes. Do you have a 

Josh: binding that starts at 1205? 

Andrew: Uh, but I have, I have prep. I think it’s 12, 10 to 10 start time, dude, time zones.

Josh: That’s a weird, that’s a weird start time to be not on an hour or a half hour. 

Andrew: We’re trying to do it. Uh, this is totally not related to this Jesus podcasts, but we’re trying to do a thing or not because most people start them on the half hour or an hour. So if you start a little bit off, like 10, 15 minutes, then you kind of build in a break for people.

Um, By default, because most people are like, well, I have 10 minutes, I’m going to go grab coffee or whatever, you know? 

Josh: So 15 makes sense because at least it’s like, it’s a quarter of an hour. I’m going to adjust our 

Andrew: recording time. I’m going to adjust our recording time. It started at like 1 0 7 Eastern time.

Josh: I had a pastor buddy that when he created, uh, events, he would make it at like 1101 or 1103, like an odd number, because he was convinced it would help people remember the time still in me and they showed up on time. But, um, but you’re still talking about it. I don’t know. I still remember what any of those times where it might work.

Yeah. Yeah. I only started earlier

Andrew: say I only start on versus I start my best meeting that I at three 16 every time. Um, and I opened with John three 16 because I am a super Christian anyway. Silly. Um, yeah, man, I don’t know. I I’m glad we, well, it’s slow on this chunk of Galatians six. I think there’s a lot of good stuff ahead. And the next, probably just next week, I doubt we’d spread this into two for, to finish the chapter, but like what’s coming is, is a real deep dive or.

I’d say my deep dive of us focusing on this idea of. Reaping what you sell and it’s it’s farmer’s terms, you know, like you put in pumpkin seeds, Tompkins are going to come out, you put in, uh, some other type of seeds. You can’t claim it’s going to be pumpkin’s. Cause you can say that when it’s tiny, but hay comes out and shows itself at some point.

Um, so we’ll talk about that idea and a few others and next week to kind of finish this out, but I don’t know, man, I guess. I, I just helped that this coming week, as I’m confronted with the moment where I’m caught in a sin or have the chance to catch somebody in a sin or even just catch my daughter doing something she knows she shouldn’t do.

Even if it’s far from a sin, you know, it’s just an annoyance to mom and dad. So we made a rule. Um, I just, I remember this in, in how, uh, And how I react, you know? Cause I’m like, if nothing else you can, you can build up a relationship or tear one down in these moments. There they’re Seminole in one way or another.

So, um, I’m glad we spent some time on this. 

Josh: Yeah, that’s good. And it’s also like, you know, we, we broke this first down a lot, um, which can actually be dangerous break versus don’t like this. Um, if you’re not careful, careful to pay attention to the bigger scope of, of the conversation. Paul is trying to get across.

And in this case, what he’s trying to get across is live this life in line and foster relationship with Jesus in faith, rather than trying to live this life by a book of rules and laws. Um, because that’s going to end up, you’re going to end up in a place that you didn’t, you didn’t expect to end up like this.

This life is about relationship it’s related to race, have a God relationship with one another and how we do those things. The best work we possibly can and how we continue to get better and better, um, at, uh, Leaning into those things and in our lives, uh, and that’s the Jesus life. How do I foster a better relationship with God and better relationship with people?

And if I come in with a heavy hammer and, you know, pouring out everybody’s sin, just for the sake of being right, uh, yeah. I’m going to destroy a lot of relationships in the wake of that. And. Those go directly against, uh, the great commandments that God said, everything lies in loving God and loving people, but Hey, those are, listen, we do greatly appreciate it.

Share this is that with your friends and family, um, post it to your social medias and let people know, Hey, I listened to this, G’s left podcasts this week. Yeah. And you know, the things that you enjoy about it. I enjoy about that as well. And Andrew and I will be super appreciative that you 

Andrew: shared it out.

Thanks for listening to our show. It really means a lot to us, and we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and with others. 

Josh: And it also helps us out. If you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening on, you can also follow us on Instagram and the Facebook.

Now sharing this with your friends. Isn’t just to get the word out of the podcast. We believe that we have the message of hope that’s found in the gospel of Jesus Christ and you sharing. This has the ability to transform the lives of people around you. 

Andrew: We want to hear it. You can email

You can message us on Facebook and Instagram, or you can just visit But seriously, thanks for this. .

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