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A Most Excellent Way
Episode No. 21

We start our new session all about relationships. Relationship with Jesus and with one another. We can’t do relationship well if we don’t know how to other each other well. This week we talk through Love being patient and how difficult it really is to live out.

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Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus life. My name’s

Andrew: Josh. Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast, Josh. How you

Josh: doing, man, dude, I’m doing well. We’re kicking off a new season season. We figured out what we’re going to focus for the season. Like

Andrew: when all the round for the season, let’s be real.

That’s our hope. That’s our plan, but we got it, dude. We got this. So under control, I feel like we’re just professionals. If I’m being honest, like this is what we do.

Josh: You have only got paid. I think that’s the key to being a professional is you made money doing this. So. Yeah, professional volunteers. That’s a good one for we professionally volunteer our time to talk.

Let’s be honest. It’s just, we’d like to hear our own voices. Yeah, talk. So that’s why we do this podcast. Even if nobody listened to us, we would still do it just to listen to ourselves. Though, we’re also not that great at going back and listening to episodes. So there’s that,

Andrew: you know, if nothing, now we get to have a real conversation for an hour each week and, and that’s something

Josh: and that’s why this started, right?

Like we’re already having pretty real conversations. We can really like, we should make this available for everybody.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And speaking of making it available for everybody, um, man, which one of us is more likely. To be a supermodel.

Josh: I used to be a plus sized model. No, you did not. No, you did wait. Make good money doing it.

Andrew: Uh, what is going on in South Dakota?

Josh: Oh, that’s true. See, I was, I wasn’t super a model for at least the gym teachers. Yeah. I thought we told that story. Oh, wait guys. I have no idea. I’ll give it to you. I’ll let you be the supermodel.

Cause it seems like a rough life. You can eat anything you want. Yeah. You gotta work out and make your body look good. And that just seems like more work than I want to put into anything

Andrew: I’m in it for the glory. You know, it’s, uh, it’s a lot of work, but, uh, I’ve always looked up to zoo Lander and, uh, you know,

Josh: I’m going full.

Janice, Janice sent me those pictures of you and your skivvies doing the catwalk on your bedroom.

Andrew: Yeah, you got to practice somewhere. Alright. I mean, you

Josh: can’t, these aren’t really something you share with friends. These are something you just keep for yourself.

Andrew: It’s true. But the way I look at it, the runway is for the show, not the practice, you know?

So you gotta practice somewhere. Um, so yeah, man, it’s true. I am a supermodel, so yeah. Um,

Josh: well, who’s more likely to visit museums more often than the other.

Andrew: Hmm. I don’t know. Here’s the thing. I like history, but

Josh: more like it

Andrew: through like history, pot, like Dan Carlin’s hardcore history podcast is awesome.

Josh: Hardcore though.

Andrew: They are they’re intense,

Josh: no pun intended. Like that’s a lot of listening to get the shots.

Andrew: Yeah. But to me, I’m a fan. I like it. Um, but yeah, dude, I like museums, but uh, it’s going to be awhile before. Yeah.

Josh: I like all museums, but art museums.

Andrew: Yeah. Let’s just

Josh: seeing all those free museums is pretty sweet.

Yeah. It’s just, yeah. I’ve been a handful of art museums and I don’t get it.

Andrew: I think what you’re saying is we’re both really likely to spend a lot of time in museums. So it’s a toss up

Josh: or watch the movie. What’s the movie night in the museum. I feel like that’s how long he is. He comes over. So

Andrew: yeah. Yeah, that is, yeah.

Why it seems wanted

Josh: us to go. If they want us to visit more, they would let the exhibits come to life. Yeah,

Andrew: do that during the daytime. Not just at night. Come on.

Josh: Alright, Andrew, between the two of us, who’s more likely. To go to a Justin Bieber concert.

Andrew: Ah,

Josh: have you ever been to a Justin Bieber?

Andrew: No, I have not.

I have not, uh, super catchy songs though. He has his new song out, um, that I heard on the radio the other day, Tim, and some other chance the rapper it’s like him and chance the rapper and dude. It’s good. It’s like catchy. It’s an ear worm. Um, I don’t know the ear worm. Yeah. Yeah. So with all that

Josh: they use for, um, Bieber fans,

Andrew: uh, B I don’t know, I don’t know.

Beaver fans. If you’re a Bieber fan and you’re listening to this, please email us at hello at this Jesus life podcast and let us know

Josh: what to do on that. We don’t care enough.

Andrew: Can we laugh if we get an email just saying, if this is what you’re

Josh: coming from, they gave me tickets to the, just a Justin Bieber concert.

I would go. But I don’t think I’m going to spend more than $10 to go to a Joseph Bieber concert,

Andrew: but you would spend $10.

Josh: You would gladly say they would spend $10. Now I spent a hundred, $150 to go to an abs game on a regular petite route, you know, outside of a pandemic right basis. I spend that much money.

So like that’s the comparison.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. So you would send hundred, hundred and $50 to see just some paper. That’s what you’re trying to say.

Josh: Fucking came out of my mouth in a different way. Yeah. So I think I’ve seen is isn’t there a documentary of his concerts or something like that? I feel like I’ve seen that.

Andrew: I don’t think so. There probably is, but I know there’s a big one about Beyonce. Like she has a big chill. I don’t know, dude. I don’t know anything about pop culture. I don’t. No, I’m a

Josh: huge concert fan in general.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: Well, yeah. I’m not like concert. I don’t get it. I don’t understand why I love them so much.

I’m with you.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, dude. So with all that being said, Concerts. I get impatient with them cause they take a long time and, and thinking about concerts and being impatient and having to stand in line and poop in a porta potty and all that type of stuff. We are talking about patients today, but why are we talking about that?

Josh: I was following that transition, thinking like, where are you going? Are we like, are we going into the content? Are we going into one of these other things listed? Like I’m so whoo.

Andrew: Patient patient,

Josh: not relationship. Definitely takes patience, but you got a question on here that I have to ask you before we get there.

Cause I’m super curious. Who’s more likely to survive 21 days and naked and afraid.

Andrew: Okay. I put it in there and my first thought was me, but here’s the thing. I think it would actually be you I’ve watched a lot of naked and afraid, and I’ve also done a lot of camping and stuff in my life. And here’s the,

Josh: have you camping naked though?

No. No, but they’re done

Andrew: the people who like go in thinking they’re like really good at being in nature and doing things outside. They always end up like. Trying to do everything and end up like cutting their hand and then it gets infected or like all this stuff. Or they they’re like drinking water and it’s not sanitary enough.

So they’re always the ones who end up going home, even if they’re like higher rated or whatever. So

Josh: is that the show like they spent 21 days in the wilderness naked.

Andrew: Yeah, you do. You go in, you don’t have to stay naked, but you go in with no view.

Josh: Do you like get a pocket knife? Like what tools do you start with?

Andrew: You choose to bring it’s like one item each one or two items each, but you can’t take clothing. So like you could take a little box of matches. No, you could take like a fire sparker. You could take a pocket knife or something like that, but you can’t take a lighter. You can’t take a jacket. Like you can’t take a blanket.

Like. It’s just super basic stuff. And then you just have to survive for 21 days. And at the end you have to like do this like three or four mile hike. That’s always really difficult and get to like your pickup point basically. So it’s pretty intense. And you you’re you’re with a person that you don’t know when you start at all, like you just both meet naked in the woods for the first time.

Go from there. Yeah.

Josh: Is this guy, girl

Andrew: usually? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It’s pretty.

Josh: If it wasn’t a TV show and it was like actual life or death, I think I’d figure it out that I could survive the 21 days kind of thing. Right. If it, if it was a show and I knew it and there was a way out. Yeah, I’m done getting out of here.

Yeah. I’d walk away. Yeah.

Andrew: That’s fair.

Josh: Yeah. The second I tried to start a fire and I’m like F this, thank you,

Andrew: dude. You got to watch that show though. You

Josh: were eating raw, read it rubbish for the night.

Andrew: We’re doing sushi for three weeks.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, but there’s probably a fair amount of patients that lives inside of the naked.

Right? Right.

Andrew: Yeah. You gotta be. Cause every month, a year you’re hungry, you’re tired. You’re probably cold or really hot because you have no shelter, you know, when you’re naked and afraid you’re fearful. So like you gotta be patient with the person next to you or, uh, things are going to go badly. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Or a patient in general just in life and yeah. Calming me your own nerves. Yeah. But that leads us to this new season and the week. And the topic is as a, we kind of leaned into relationship and two forms of relationship that we’re all lead into on this Jesus laugh podcast, our relationship with God and relationship with one another.

And I think as we kind of tackle some of these things over the next handful of episodes that we’ll make up. Season two. Um, I think there’s a lot to talk about when it comes to relationship, um, and stories to tell, uh, inside of relationship and what looks like and how we handled it poorly and how we handled it.

Well, um, just to help you along this journey, if, if everything is built on those two commands, um, as Jesus stated, you know, when he was asked, what are the greatest commandments, love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and love your neighbor. As yourself, it’s all built inside a relationship.

And I think too, you could take, you could take the entirety of scripture, both new Testament, old Testament, um, thumb through it and land on a, on a random verse. And I would argue that verse would be about relationship, either relationship with God or relationship with him, each other. Um, you know, even in that statement, when Jesus asked about the greatest commandments, he says all of them, the law and the prophets, hang on these two.

Yeah. So meaning everything that came before Jesus was built for relationship, like they didn’t kill because it was poor. It was poor manner, lack of a better term in relationship that was no longer in relationship. Right.

Andrew: On

Josh: simple things like that. Right. Or I don’t tell it my neighbor’s wife because, well, like in relationship, just cousins, a lot of turmoil is, and just loving me.

His wife was really hot and I want her. Only that I’m treating a human being as a piece of meat at that point. So no relationship, no matter which way you slice it. And I think we miss it. Oftentimes when it’s all about relationship, we missed the stack that, um, we’re really bad at relationship. We’re bad at relationship with God and we’re bad, our relationship with one another.

And I think as we dive into these topics over the next season, or we can be a lot of help to helping you do relationship better with both God and others.

Andrew: I hope we can be a lot of help if nothing else. I feel like from the great intro you just gave now, everyone knows, listen, don’t kill someone because then you can’t have relationship with them.

Josh: Yeah. I think that’s a good piece of knowledge. That’s plaque worthy. That is like a, make that up. Put it in your kitchen. So you see every day I can’t kill people. Relationships,

Andrew: friends. Yeah. Something like that.

Josh: If you kill you, can’t be friends. Response to that is I won’t be there front anyway, friends.

Jesus. Yeah. And guess what? There’s more reasons

Andrew: to not kill people. Right. But that’s obviously the most important one.

Josh: No, man.

Andrew: I, uh, yeah, I’m glad. Yeah. We’re going to be talking about relationship and I know we’re going to use kind of first Corinthians 13 as. Kind of a backbone for a decent amount of this.

Um, so if you want to know where our head’s at and kind of where these attributes are coming from of love and of relationship read first Corinthians 13, we might read it in this show. We might read it later. I don’t know, but that’s part of where our heads are at. If you want to go read that, check it out and be familiar with it.

Um, but yeah, relationship is like kind of what defines. Humans in a lot of ways I think is, is that we can have intimate relationship with each other. And with God, like, I, I have chickens as you know, and their relationship is very skin deep. Uh, they. They hang out together. But the reality is if you pulled them out and put them in different coops, they would probably forget they ever do anybody in the other coop real quick.

Cause they’re just chickens. They’re not made to be on intimate, deep relationship like humans are. And I think our Bible backs that up a little bit. Like I was reading a children’s. Genesis stories to my daughter the other day. And one of the defining factors is that like God made all the animals, you know, and they were good.

God made the sky and the planet, all the things, and they were good, but he made Adam, um, a man and he didn’t have anybody to, to be with because he wasn’t like all the other animals he was made in God’s image. So that wasn’t. As good. So he made Eve for Adam. So Adam and Eve could, could exist together in relationship.

They could do all things together. Um, so I think our Bible backs this up even to the first few pages of like we’re supposed to be in relationship with God and with each other. Yeah,

Josh: well, and like when you think through life, so you’ll hear us quote this verse on regular basis. But John said tends to, you know, Jesus said the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy, but I have come to give you life and to give it to the full.

And I think this is where that happens is inside relationships. Um, not only relationship with God, that’s extremely important and can be extremely rich and deep if you choose to pursue it. But also relationship with one another. Like, I think. Some of your greatest, you know, as, as you listen to, you could probably think this too, but some of your greatest joys in life probably surround like involve the people and probably some of your greatest pains in life involve people as well.

Um, it just, there’s so much power inside of that. And I think us as followers of Jesus are when we embrace this calling to be great, a relationship both vertical and horizontal or the meaning vertical God horizontal, each other. Um, that we can be a beacon of hope that the world around you, hasn’t seen your sphere of influence hasn’t seen, and it’s hard to do.

It’s not simple to do. Um, and I think that’s why we’re dedicating an entire season to it is because it’s a complicated topic. Um, we don’t do it well, so there’s a lot of places to learn inside of it. Um, and to practice, you know, the things that scripture preaches and what you know is recorded by God, the father and God, the son in his epistles, um, So we kind of dig into these things, but I think that’s a good starting point.

Yeah. What would they enter the love versus is as we look at first Corinthians 13, which by the way, um, I listened to last week’s episode and I struggled to get. First Corinthians 13 out and I come in, it’s a memorizing it two or three years ago. And I couldn’t even remember the book shame on me, but is first Corinthians 13, shame on you.

Andrew: Oh man.

Josh: That’s okay. Let’s read the first three verses that kind of set the, the why. And then we’ll dig into the, what as you look at the love versus.

Andrew: If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but I have not love, I’m a noisy gong or a clanging symbol. And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to move mountains, but I do not have love.

I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but I have not love, I have gained nothing. Kind of intense,

Josh: like I think all superintendents, but I think all does a great job at explaining the why you can do the greatest of things in this, in this world. You know, Jesus told the disciples, have you had faith as small as a mustard seed, you can move, you can tell this mountain to move from here to there.

But if you tell this mountain to move from here to there as great as a feat, that that would be, it’s nothing. If it wasn’t done inside of love. And I was just thinking like, I think it was this last week I was driving somewhere and just processing in general. I was thinking, how often do we look at people as.

Tools or hurdles to get tasks done. And we don’t see the people in front of us and we miss out on so much relationship so much life. Um, when we live in those places, like even when you’re like, well, I know in this moment I need to motivate this person. So I’m going to say in this way, I’m going to Oreo him when a good, bad, good, uh, to, to get my point across.

But that’s not love. Like that’s just. In in, uh, in, in some form it’s just manipulation. Um, and I’m not sure, truly caring for people, um, and seeing people as Jesus, these people, um, and I’ve missed out on so much life because, you know, I’ve, I’ve chosen to live in those places and don’t get me wrong. I’m in a much different place today than I was a year, year and a half ago.

Uh, as Jesus is more than me, but I still have a long ways to go in terms of. Learning really what love of it looks like. But yeah, it, you could do the greatest of things. You could be the greatest, you know, speak in tongues in the greatest of ways, but you’re useless. You could have prophetic powers and then be completely useless.

Um, you can understand all the mysteries and the knowledge of the galaxies and of God himself, and they would be pointless. Um, if you had, if you did not love

Andrew: even to the point that very last, if I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, Saying like if seven, if I sacrifice myself for somebody else.

Um, but I have not loved again, nothing, you know, that’s how I pictured it. At least it’s like you could do, you can do anything. Um, and if you do it with smell love, if you just do it because you just want to manipulate people, you just want to get your thing done. You just want to, I don’t know, make your name great.

Gain glory. Yeah. When the battle, when the war, whatever. Yeah. But you don’t have love then, uh, then you missed the whole ship, you know, like you missed the whole point. Um,

Josh: yeah. Yeah. I think too, like, yeah, to tag on to that, like. I think one thing that keeps us from loving people, well, our insecurities. Okay.

I think if we don’t identify the things that trigger those insecurities and we don’t know, like, I think that’s the thing that generally keeps us at a distance from people, or all I’m doing is seeking your approval to fight the insecurities inside of me, rather than being confident, secure in who God has created me to be and being okay with the good and the bad and the ugly, um, That it’s inside of my personality.

Um, I think that’s one of your biggest pieces and I think that’s probably why we see less and less love today. Not only in the world, but inside the church, because there’s such a high level of insecurity and we were okay with it. Yeah. I think that’s something we had to start fighting against. We can’t be okay with it anymore.

Like we’ve got to do the though the own personal work to fit, to, to start to do work, to heal and fix those areas. Um, But also like identify them and be willing to speak in to other people around us because of him. Because I think keeping you from your relationship with people, I think they’re keeping you from having deep, meaningful relationship with one another.

And not only that, I think they’re keeping you from having a deep, meaningful relationship with God because you’re telling yourself you’re not worthy. You’re not good enough. Or you’re telling yourself you’re too awesome. And you don’t need God. Whatever the verbiage is running through your head. It could be on either side for insecurities, but I think that keeps you from a level of vulnerability with God himself.

And, uh, lessons that relationship even, but

Andrew: I think so. And one of the things you kind of referenced like. Like it or not. We, we to work with other people, we have to do things with other people in this life. I don’t know if you can possibly have an occupation where you just never interact with the person or you never, you know, like, I don’t know if that exists, but yeah, but like in this category of patients, which in the next verses, the first Corinthians, it starts off with love is patient as the very first thing.

Love is patient that’s one of the defining. Attributes of what love is, what it looks like

Josh: and why you think Andrew, it was the first one listed because I looked

Andrew: through them. Yeah.

Josh: I looked through it and you’re like, man, I could list so many, so many different ones could be the first. Why is patient the most important?

Like why did Paul think that was important to write it that way?

Andrew: I wonder if it’s, because I don’t know. I don’t know why Paul put it down first, but when I read it, like. I don’t know if I’m alone in this, but impatience is a big part of my mind, my makeup, you know, like, and if I’m impatient, then I’m obviously not demonstrating love as a kind of starting line.

So I don’t know if it’s a universal thing. I don’t know if just Paul was really impatient too. So he’s like he put that as his first thing, or he just was clearly like, Oh, well, I know it’s not this because every time I’m impatient, I’m not showing love, you know? But, um, but for me, it’s, I am impatient man.

And you know, I’ve told the story of the year of the chicken and kind of all of that, but the reality is, um, I’ve had to be patient in a lot of things in my life, even though I don’t want to be, you know, I’ve been forced to be, and I’m still in that, that season of kind of. Being patient because I have no other choice, you know, or that, that is the choice.

That is the season God has me in. So, um, I don’t know. I, I’m not a big fan of being patient. I’m not a big fan of just, well, it’ll get here when it gets here. And I don’t think any of us are big fans of that. Like, I mean, look at Amazon prime, dude, we all have. Like everybody has Amazon prime. And if something takes three days to get to her house, instead of two days, it’s like that, what a slow, crappy delivery, like rebel years ago, it’d be like, all right, shipping seven to 20 days.

And we’d be like, great. You know, like we’re impatient and everything.

Josh: Well, and then get those, those shipments that are like one day shipments that Amazon prime likes to do now. And you’re like, yeah, This is the new norm. This is looking like, why do I ever need to go to a store again? Not because I can ship everything to mind.

Andrew: Isn’t it funny when it’s like, this will be here by tomorrow at five and then tomorrow five, four 30 comes and it’s like, we’re sorry, it’s running late. It’s going to be here the next day. My reaction is always like, my reaction is like, what the heck? Why

Josh: did I pay for

Andrew: it? Which is just funny. Such an unreasonable expectation

Josh: and businesses play into that lack of patience in society.

Cause like there for a while, Amazon was telling you how many stops until your, your package arrived. It’s like you have seven stops and your package is going to get here, which had to be a massive security issue for their habitat delivery people. I know where he’s going next. That’s um, I’m glad they probably took it away for the sake of other drivers, but yeah.

Yeah. There’s definitely something to it.

Andrew: Um, yeah, I think,

Josh: I think patients, I think it was intentional. That’s my guess

Andrew: is first you mean, you think it’s intentional?

Josh: Yeah, I think so. And haven’t done any research. I don’t know for sure. This is me making a lot of assumptions. Yeah.

Andrew: Um,

Josh: because I think it’s foundational to relationship.

Um, like, yeah. I think of people that are really good at relationships. Um, and, and one of the key characteristics of them as their patient, because you have to be right now because people are people and people are gonna do things to piss you off. Um, so in those moments, are you going to choose to hold your tongue?

Um, are you gonna choose to take the hit or are you going to choose to lash out and take revenge? Right? Like that’s, there’s a level of patience that has to exist

Andrew: and even like,

Josh: Yeah. As people develop and grow and mature in this, in them being this new creation as this new creation continues to unfold, um, like there’s patients in that, like they’re going to do things that you look at and say, well, that’s simple.

All we’re we’re we’re saved saints that are. Still sending, right? Like we’re not sinners that stopped sending the second that he found Jesus, we’re saying we’re a new creation now that we still sin. Um, so there’s that piece of it to a maturity that like, there’s just so much patience that has to exist inside of relationship for low relationships, just to see, stay together, let alone, yeah.

To be healthier, not like just to call it a relationship. There has to be a fair amount of patients, at least by one party. Oftentimes there’s a lot of work. A lot of patients for one side and not the other. And that’s the only reason it sticks together. Right. Because someone showed the patients, but in the relationships where there’s no patients on either side, um, like the relationship doesn’t last, which is it’s going to fall out and fall apart.

So I think it’s foundational. Um, Yeah, I think there’s definitely something to it. Um, but how do you do it, Andrew? Like you start to,

Andrew: I’ll ask you,

Josh: how do you get you start to feel the lack of patience building up in you. Right. That’s and that’s

Andrew: the hardest thing. I

Josh: think it is similar to relationships. I think of work relationships past work relationships.

I think of family relationships. I, your friend relationships. And so often there’s this moment where something happens and you’re like, Nope, I’m done. And I think it’s finding those moments. Like I think of a really good buddy of mine. I love the dude to death. I tell a certain story over and over again about the two of us, because I think it’s a fantastic story.

I won’t share that story right now. The pockets, I have no problem sharing it, but I also don’t want to throw us under the bus. And there’s plenty of things that happened on trips that we’ve been together or places that we’ve been together, even if they weren’t trips that I stepped back of, like, I’m so done.

Like, I don’t want to deal with this anymore. This is not my thing. Yeah. Yeah. I’m out. Um, and in those moments, it’s. No, no, no, that’s not the, I think it’s just self-talk or self-correction maybe. Yeah. In your own mind of like Jeff, does it really matter that much, Josh? Yeah. Like, sure. You’re annoyed right now, but like, does it really matter?

Is it friendship ending as much as your brain saying, get rid of this? Forget this person? No, like some it’s just self-taught it’s identifying like. I’m feeling really impatient right now, feeling really frustrated right now I’m hurt, I’m angry or, or whatever, the emotions that come along with that, it could be for Hottie as you think about it.

But yeah. Um, and it’s just taking a step back and saying, no, no, no, no, no, no relationship matters more than the action. Yeah. Like that’s what matters here. So I’m going to commit the interrelationship.

Andrew: Yeah. Okay. And that

Josh: means I stick in it. I stick around, I think is, is the thing with relationship, even when I’m hurt.

Even when I’m harmed, even if it’s deep relationship matters. So I’m just sticking to the

Andrew: relationship. Yeah, it does matter. And it matters. Like I was thinking about patients, you said, you know, how do you do it? And I was thinking about the lens of like, how I’ve tried to do it most recently in my life.

And, um, my daughter’s almost two years old. And, uh, and so I have a captive audience of someone who is always kind of. Looking to me and looking to Jana to figure out how do I behave in life? How do I live this life? Not even just this jesus’ life, but like his life, you know, how do I act? How do I not act all of that?

Um, so she’s looking to me as her father to demonstrate that. So like, Man. She gives me a lot of opportunities to be impatient. Cause if she wants something like if she wants a snack it’s daddy, snack daddy, a snack daddy, maybe a snack, a show daddy, maybe a show. Maybe a show, you know, and then like just constant, like a constant barrage of like snack shell outside, inside chickens, blah, blah, blah.

Like whatever she wants it’s, you know? Um, and so a lot of opportunities to demonstrate, like I am patient, you know, but I catch myself a lot, even if I’m like willing to give her. Pretzels as a snack say, um, and I have them break their, you know, on the table. I can just grab and give them to her, uh, Submittable.

Like I so often catch myself saying like, Hey, just, you just got to wait a moment. I’m going to get that for you. Um, and then I kind of delay for a, a minute. Two minutes, you know, like I don’t forget about it. I don’t make it go super long, but I do that so that she can at least build that muscle a tiny bit of, like you said, you’re going to do this.

I can wait for it. You know, like trying to demonstrate patients just a little bit, not to be a turd, not to be mean, but to try to build that muscle in her that not everything is just like, Right now, you know? Um, and that’s, that’s a lesson to me too. Like that’s maybe the only way or the best way I’m thinking to demonstrate patients right now.

That’s a small way. And I don’t always feel it often. I just want to be like, no, you already had a snack, like leave me alone, stop asking whatever. But when I pause and I’m like, yes, I will answer that. Yes, I will do that thing, but I’m going to take a minute. So you recognize that it’s coming, you know, and can wait.

Yeah. And then, then deliver. So I don’t know if that helps at all or if that’s a good example, but that’s like, that’s one small way. I’m trying to demonstrate patients so that hopefully she can understand not everything is right away, you know? Um, yeah.

Josh: They’ll help you when she gets her teenager. Um,

Andrew: maybe.

Josh: Like, as I think about this, when you say someone talks about patients, like it always comes with the line of like, I’m not patient at all.

Andrew: Yeah. Right. Like

Josh: none of us view ourselves as patient people, even probably patient people, like other people view them as patient, even them, they probably don’t use patient.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: And I’m thinking like, as I wonder if we live in this world of patients, it doesn’t matter what you think it matters, what you do. And this is what I mean by that inside my head, all the wheels can be spinning of like, I want this now I want this. Now I want this. Now I want this. Now I want you to be changed so I can like you better now, whatever, whatever the things are.

But I wonder if we just leave the, leave those in our head. And what really matters is our actions in this area. Sometimes our thoughts matter a lot more than our actions, but I think our actions might lead to better thoughts. Um, so when I’m feeling these, uh, the, these. This poll of impatient. I wonder if I just stop myself and say, I’m kind of what you’re just talking about, right?

Like I’m going to stop myself and say, no, I’m going to choose to be patient. So I’m not going to react in this moment. I’m just going to let the moment go by. Um, at least when it comes to ourselves and other people involved, it gets weird really fast, but I think there’s something to that of like, Is your behavior showing patients, even if your mind’s not, even if there’s wrestling on the inside, that’s not, I think what really matters in this place, because this is what matters in relationship, right.

Is like, do I just let this go? Or am I going to let anger take over and my frustration take over and I’m just going to lash out or am I going to take it in all myself kind of the sacrifice sacrificial love, right? Like, I can’t truly love people unless I’m willing to sacrifice for that person. So if I’m not giving up anything, I really love.

Um, it’s kind of my argument. Um, so maybe it’s the term. And now, like if they’re wronging, you. They’re sitting against you. They’re hurting you in some way. I’m not saying sweep it under the rug. That’s not helpful. The relationship either. Like, well, we’ll get to that conversation as we get through these verses and we get to, you know, love is kind, um, and some of the other ones, but like, you want to bring up those conversations eventually, but in the moment, I wonder if the responses no, no, no.

Like. I’m going to show patients right now, I’m going to hold my tongue. I’m going to stop. I’m going to internalize whatever I need to internalize right now in this moment. Yeah. For the sake of patients, because love is patient. And if love is patient, I’m going to sacrifice for this person in this moment.

Right. I think there, there might be something to that. Um,

Andrew: I think so. I think, yeah, I think there’s definitely something to the

Josh: application.

Andrew: Yeah, there’s application. Well, let me ask you this. What are things you’ve had to learn patience with in your walk with God? Like you don’t have to, you didn’t know this question’s coming, but, you know, can you think of any examples when God has made you be patient or tight, you patients in a deeper level that you can share?

Josh: Mmm. Like prolonging things you’re asking for is your typical answer. And there’s plenty of those things in my life. But, um, like I’m thinking in terms of relationship right now, I’m like there’s people in my life that man, I just had no patience for it all. I had no patience for him because of the selfishness that I saw inside of them, of their self centeredness that I saw inside of them.

If they’re of, they’re just extreme need to. To have all the information, um, So like they, they pick and pick and pick until they have it all, like, just things like that. I’m thinking of a couple of specific the people without naming names or giving context. Um, and I just remember even a year ago, just how much it drove me, absolutely bonkers, um, in those moments where it’s like, Oh my gosh, I don’t want to do anything.

So I think the first step was Josh shut your mouth. Cause the other part of it was I’m going to bitch about them to other people around me. Cause I got to get it out. Well, that’s not helpful either. Right. Um, so the first step was like, Josh just don’t say anything yeah. About it at all. Cause it doesn’t really matter.

No. Yeah. So I didn’t, that was my first behavioral change. Um, still going on in my head, everything’s still running of like, Oh, these people are fricking pissing me off, but internally or externally, it was just like, no, just like move on. And when the second step was, I had to engage them. Um, so even though yeah, the things that we’re doing, I don’t agree with you, things that we’re doing.

I think our borderline sinful, uh, I think, uh, the things that they’re doing are just for the sake of unity are destructive. Um, nothing’s going to change if I don’t engage them and I’m not saying engage them in a sense of correct their behavior. I’m saying just to engage them as people. Um, so am I engaging them, talking with them, asking them questions, kind of going to where they’re at?

Cause I have. There are probably things about me that drives me nuts when they go down those roads. Right. It’s just different roads that piss us off. Um, so I’m gonna engage them as human beings and that was the external change. Um, and they’re starting to be care inside of it. And a lot of this, this is all retro, you know, in retroactive, not retroactive it’s intersected.

So like retrospective, I’m looking backwards and I wasn’t. I was intentionally trying to love people better, but I wasn’t, as intentional as the steps are laid out, they just kind of, these are the steps that got laid out and then things started to change. But like even recently, I’m talking with, with one of these individuals and just the high level of compassion that I would never have had their behavior hasn’t changed.

They’re still exactly. I feel like Tim always been there still. You know, doing the same behavior that pissed me off or annoyed me, uh, months before, but now there’s a level of compassion of, Oh, I can help this person right now. Not help them be better or help them fix their ways or just help them, whatever their problem is in this moment.

Um, we can talk through things like, I think there’s an external positioning that you’ve got to take as a follower of Jesus to show patients whether you’re feeling the patients on the inside. I think the feelings, if that’s. Don’t let feelings be the thing that motivate you in any way. But, um, if the feelings, I think the feelings will follow suit is what I’m trying to say.

So I think as long as we continue to practice the, I think patience is one of those things that if I practice it and practice it, especially with individuals like name them. So, and so, so and so, and so, and so caused me to be extremely impatient. Well, now that I’ve identified them, I’m able to look back and just be like, Oh yeah, yeah.

Sally she is, she’s the one that causes me to be a patient. So I have to be more intentional to be patient. Right. As soon as those kinds of things, I think there’s, there’s something to that that could be extremely helpful to us as followers of Jesus to live, but to live this out

Andrew: and to be honest, yeah.

Josh: With Jesus about these conversations.

Andrew: Like this is prayer

Josh: of, Hey, Sally, God creates such an anxious and frustration inside of me. Like, why is this? Like, can you can reveal that to me and like, start that dialogue and like, get it before Jesus. And you’ll be surprised at how much, how much work Jesus does in the midst of those moments too, to help us become more mature in following him and more mature and loving people around us.

Andrew: Yeah, man. I, uh, I had a thought as you were talking, um, and kind of talking in like examples of patients, builders in your life, people who have made you more patient or impatient or demonstrated things you’re impatient in. And like, I wonder if, if it’s listed first in the, this is what love is love is patient.

You know, I wonder if it’s listed that way because it’s like, It’s like a relationship breaker, you know, just like if I, if I choose to stay in impatient at this person or at this behavior that I’m just never going to have any influence in their life. You know, like that’s true. Patients may just be like, kind of one of the first check boxes of like, am I willing to have any patients with them at all?

Uh, cause if not, I can’t have any relationship with them at all. And yeah. Then I probably can’t influence them towards Jesus at all. You know, it’s like, cause everybody’s going to get on your nerves at some point, you know, whether you’re spending 21 days with them naked and afraid, uh, or you’re just.

Working with them on the same team at work or you’re serving with them, or you’re just neighbors with them, you know, like you’re going to have chances to be impatient with people all the time, you know? And, and I wonder if it’s just one of those things of. If you choose to demonstrate patients, then you have a chance to actually have influence in their life.

If you don’t demonstrate patients, then you’re never going to have any influence in their life. And that’s like, the thing is like, I don’t know. I feel like there’s, there’s always a line to walk. Like, as we were about to start this podcast, you had some delivery, people arrive in and drop off packages at your house.

Like, I don’t think you need to always be. The most patient and the most open to relationship only person like in that moment when a delivery person shows up and they’re just like, here you go. Here’s your Amazon package. Yeah. It’s like, yeah. They don’t really want to like, be your best friend or your life story most of the time, but you can choose to be patient and how you show up.

You can choose to be like, Hey, thank you. You know, like you don’t have to be a jerk and you don’t have to be impatient, you know, just cause your

Josh: doorbell going down. Going down that lane though, like here, I am trying to record a podcast. I came to my door and they hadn’t even unloaded my package yet off the truck.

So they have to go back to the truck and they started to unload it. And then it’s taking them forever to find the package to unload it. And then they finally get it to the door and he’s like, Oh shoot, you have to actually sign some paperwork. So now you go back and instruct me at the paperwork and all in my head is like, well, all in my head is Andrew talking to my ear.

Cause I’m telling you how attractive these women are. Which is weird. Cause he couldn’t even see them. And they could have been women that have been delivery women, but he assumed they were a man cause he sexist. Um, but, but like in that moment I could have been impatient and in Ben testy with them and like, come on, guys, just do your freaking job.

I give him one thing to do, but I’m not showing love in that moment. At that point, I’m not caring for them. So though. There isn’t going to be any longterm relationship with my delivery. People from Costco.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Like there’s still, but going back to your influence point, what if I cross paths with them again?

Yeah. And I was the, I was the ass that just founded them, hounded them because I had other things to do and they were taking their sweet time to do their job. Right. Then later on down the road, I have no influence with them in the future. Like I’ve ruined that relationship and I now have to. Go through the steps of restoring the relationship of that relationship comes back around in circle.

So I think there’s something to it of like, what you’re saying is like being impatient is not showing love. Right. Um, so if I’m not being patient with the people around me, whether they’re delivery people I’ll see once in my entire lifetime or, or people I see every day, like I’m not showing love and I’m called to.

Love my neighbor as myself. Like that’s the command. So if I’m not doing it, I’m not obeying the life that Jesus called me to. And not only that, I don’t experience the whole life that Jesus has for him, because I’m not in alignment with the commandments that he’s asked me to be in alignment with it. Yeah.

Um, so I think there’s that piece of it too, of like, you never know what’s going to happen down the road for the sake of influence, but also. Like, there’s just, there should be a level of love. Yeah. In general for how I conduct myself with people around me. Um, I think it’s important.

Andrew: Yeah, cause I don’t wanna like belabor this point too long, but like, you know, there’s this rule in, in like business where if your business, if you have one negative interaction with the customer, it takes like 19, I think is the rule roughly positive interactions to kind of cancel that out, to kind of make the customer say, okay, I trust Costco again.

Okay. I trust whoever the

Josh: know

Andrew: you’re like, but. So in the same way, if you’re just to check one time, if you’re just impatient, one time

Josh: you got to

Andrew: really rebuild from there, man. Like, you know,

Josh: well, even applying that principle directly to our lives, right? Like that one time I was a jerk to Sally. I now have 19 times that I have to show love to Sally, just to breakeven.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: And maybe,

Andrew: you know, it’s like, yeah, just to get back to where you started, like you’re down here.

Josh: Yeah. So why would you want to go through life with a bunch of negatives? Yeah with relationships. Like that’s a lot of work to get back to and it’s not like, yeah, cause it’s not real love. And I’m just trying to manipulate to get back to it too neutral.

Right. Like I generally have to love 19 times to get back to neutral. So it’s probably a good. 40 actions on my part

Andrew: easily.

Josh: I couldn’t get back to LA because only 19 of them, Virginia,

Andrew: not to mention all the time, you have to put into thinking about each one of those actions after you’ve been a jerk. It’s like, dude, it’s a set

Josh: of work

Andrew: just to get back to zero,

Josh: you know, like just here’s the, here’s the real thing.

If you recognize you’re about to be a jerk. For the sake of your own welfare amount of work and life that you’re going to have to go through, don’t do it because you’re going to do things you’re oblivious to, that’s going to cause harm to the relationship that you’re going to have to do. Your 19 things of love.

Do you have to nutrient with them? Um, so. Yeah, I guess the other option is if you just show so much love to people in general, and you’re 19 to the positive, when you go one negative, they’re like,

Andrew: it’s fine case

Josh: though. And he’s

Andrew: been nice to me so many times. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: I think there’s something

Andrew: to that I really do too.

And I like this whole okay. Something really funny. You, you wanted to call the last episode, relational specialist or something like that. My title at work is literally relationship specialists too. So we laugh. But like, but just thinking through the lens of like, if you just want, if you just want to be good relationally, like, I always think of it as like you’re putting in deposits of like, Good memories basically with people and not to be manipulative, like not to say, I’m going to give you all these favors.

I’m going to be nice to you all these times. So that later I can call in the check like that shouldn’t be your intent if it is, I think you’re off the Mark. And I think we’ll get there in some part later.

Josh: I think we’ll do, but I’ll say this because I think it’s important. I think manipulation is 100% sense.

Hmm. Yeah. Like I used to take the verses of like shrewd as a Viper and as innocent as a dove and be like, no, as long as your intentions are good, you can manipulate people for good. And I, 100% believe today that manipulation is 100% sinful because it does not foster relationship.

Andrew: Yeah. Sorry. I think you’re right.

No, that’s a good tangent.

Josh: You’re off my soap box, but you go back to it.

Andrew: That’s a good soap. Hopefully we revisit. Cause that’s good. But, but no, I just like, if you’re just, just with this micro, are you patient, can you be patient with people if you’re just doing that? If you’re being patient with others, just for the chance to.

To have relationship. I think you’re at least on the right track. As long as you’re not saying I want to be super patient with them just to manipulate them later. No, if you’re doing that, you’re, you’re not on the right track. But if you’re saying, Hey, I want to be patient with this person because I catch myself wanting to be impatient with them.

God, would you help me be patient with Sally? Sorry, Sally, for listening to this, you’re fictional in our example,

Josh: but I know like Karen,

Andrew: sorry, Karen’s a, if you’re listening now I’m skidding, but, uh, What I’m trying to say is like, you just, it doesn’t take much to lose out on relationship. It doesn’t take much to mess it up.

Um, and it also doesn’t take that much to be patient with people. Um, even like you said to display patients, even if you’re feeling a little bit impatient inside, it doesn’t take that much to say, you know, you, as a person are more important to me than, than this one thing that this phone called, it’s going to take five minutes that I don’t.

I think I have in my calendar picking it up. That’s more important than always sending you to voicemail. You know, like I can be patient with you. I can give you five minutes. I can invest in you. I can actually listen to your answer. You know, I can be patient enough to just hear what you’re trying to say before I ask you to just go do this thing or that thing, or do whatever I need.

You know, it’s like just the bar is low. You know, that’s the good thing. It’s a low bar. Cause we live in a super impatient society back to our Amazon prime example or smartphones, cations, all of that, like, yeah, very impatient. So the bar is low. So I think when you’re patient, you stand out a little bit like.

Oh, wow. Like when they ask me a question, they actually have time for me to answer. It’s not, Hey, Josh, how are you doing today? And if you say more than good, I’m sitting there, like, uh, come on, like I got to go, you know, like, yeah. I actually have time to hear how you are. Like, it’s simple. The bar is really low, man.

Um, and that’s coming from a relationship specialist. So,

Josh: you know, too, Not even one, it’s a reservation too. So they’re better than once. I think that’s a pretty big deal. Yeah. Well, let me read, let me read this verse two. This is, this is Paul’s letter to the cautions cautions chapter three, starting with the verse 12.

And we’ll kind of, we’ll probably come to an end on this idea, but, um, it says this therefore, as God’s chosen people, Holy and dearly loved, these are those that follow Jesus. God’s chosen people. Clothe yourself with compassion, with kindness, with humility, with gentleness and with patience, bear with bear with each other.

And forgive one another. If you have any grievance against, uh, if you have, if any of you has a grievance against someone forgive as the Lord forgave you and all of these versions, she’s put on love, which binds them together in perfect unity. I think unity is a key piece here. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts.

Since as members of one body, you are called to peace. So two things, this idea of unity of, you know, Jesus said it this way you will. You will be, you’ll be known as my disciples for how you love one another. Um, for the sake of our unity, I combined a couple of verses together to make that happen, but like, there’s this piece of unity inside of the church and the church simply being God’s people, the Christians and those that have given their lives to Jesus as Lord and savior.

I believe the gospel would be the gospel. Like there’s a level of unity that we should be functioning inside of. Um, and I think that’s extremely important. And then the other parts of part of this is this is like, let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts. Like as a follower of Jesus, I have direct access to peace.

Um, meaning there’s a calmness to that, right? Like I can live in compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience, because I have this piece that comes from Jesus. So if I’m going through life, Frantic and going through life busy. Um, there’s no peace there and there’s probably no peace there because I don’t have enough Jesus there.

Um, so I think there’s a piece of this, of like spend more time with Jesus, spend more time in prayer conversation and understanding the things he’s already written in his, in, in what we call the Bible scripture. Um, and applying those things to your life, not in the sense of applying those things to your life and a list of do’s and don’ts, but applying.

The understanding of your new identity to your, as a new, new covenant, the new Testament, you’re going to find a level of peace that makes patients easier. That’s my point of all these verses, right? Like when I’m in a peace with God and God has given me peace that comes from him, and then I’m going to be more patient with those around me.

Um, it kind of goes back to my earlier stage that’s of our identity, right? When I’m at peace with my identity, I’m confident in who I am. Yeah. Um, I’m going to show more patients to those around me because I don’t feel like I’m being attacked in my identity. Right? Like there’s a piece of that too, that plays into this conversation.

Um, that I think, I think is important in terms of like, we gotta find the source of all these things. Like it’s not up to us, right? Like, Jesus, didn’t say you’re a new creation. Now go do it on your own. No, he said you are a new creation now abide in me and I in you. And that will be the fruit of your life.

Right, right. Patience is the fruit of like, it’s one of the spiritual fruits. Like it is a fruit of you abiding in Jesus. So if you don’t see a lot of that fruit in your life, there’s not a lot. There’s not going to be a lot of like there, isn’t a, probably not a lot of Jesus in your life. Like I think of individuals in my life that are extreme  inpatient people.

Yeah. Which now I look at and say, man, the level of compassion that I have for somebody cause, and that just seems so exhausting in life, especially inside of a relationship, we’re just ending relationships all around you. Now you’re going to be this one person all by yourself. Maybe you have a spouse and you read your Bible every day.

Right? Cause that’s what you’re supposed to do as a good Christian. If there’s no relationship inside of that, that time with Jesus, I’m just reading something for information and knowledge. So all the relationships around me, if crumbled, because I’m not connected to the source. So now there’s no piece and I can’t have any patients and because I don’t have any patients.

And at times people don’t have patience with me, relationships fall apart. If there’s no patients at all. And now I’m 100% by myself and I convinced myself that that’s okay. But that’s normal and that’s just how life is. And that’s not true. Jesus called us 100% to our relationship. It should be full life full of joy.

And to get to those places, we find it inside of relationship though, there may be pain. The joy is always greater. I think there’s a big piece of that, that I think we’ve got to get out there of like, if you’re alone right now, you don’t have a ton of friends. I got a conversation, not that long ago with someone there’s, I don’t have a lot of friends and you’re like, man, but there’s so much joy and friendship.

Yeah. Like that’s where, like, I shouldn’t say friendship relationship in general. Yeah. Um, like it could be so many different types of relationships and we embrace those things. Yeah. We live in this love is patient to the rest of them that are also gonna be great. Like, I think there’s a big piece of that, that that’s going to give you the full life to Jesus promise.

Do you think this is the secret sauce? It’s the key. Can I live in deeper relationship with God and deeper relationships with one another?

Andrew: Yeah. Dang man. That was good. I was, I was trying to listen and I was just thinking, I don’t think can tap this. This is solid. Like all of what you just said. Solid. Um,

Josh: the only, this is why we’re friends, cause you’re just telling me how awesome I am

Andrew: compliment you, man.

I think highly of you

Josh: see there’s two, there’s two things for relationship patients

Andrew: and compliments

Josh: and someone who just tells you how awesome you are. And those two things like life’s going to be great.

Andrew: I’m basically your

Josh: hype man.

Andrew: I just hype you up and keep doing it. You’re crushing it. You’re crushing them.

Now, the only other thing I was going to say is just like real practical takeaway that I’m going to try to do next couple of days before you. And I talk again, is when I’m catching myself. When I catch myself being impatient, which inevitably is going to happen soon. Cause I am impatient. Um, I’m going to just mentally commit now that when I catch myself being impatient next, I’m just going to say maybe not in that exact moment, but soon afterwards, I’m going to pray and say, God, why was I so impatient with that?

Can you reveal that to me? Can you reveal that to me and help me work through that? Because I don’t want to be that way. Um, just for the simple sake of not having to do 19 things to prove I can get back to zero, come on. Like that’s a lot of work, like. God. So, so if you’re, if you’re thinking about that, if you want to apply this next time, you’re impatient.

Just stop and say, Jesus, can you help reveal to me the root of my impatience with right. Sally obviously, cause it’s always Sally, can you help reveal the root of it? That to me, um, and, and go from there and just listen for a little bit. That’s what I’m going to do. Um, I feel like that’s it a good takeaway for me and I don’t know if God reveals something cool.

I’ll share about it, but, um,

Josh: Dude. That’s awesome. Yeah, man, I’m going to write it down. So I don’t forget to put it in the show notes. We’ll bring it up for the next show. Um, but I’ll, I’ll try to practice the same thing. Yeah. But this is where we’re headed. Yeah. Love is patient love is kind. It does not envy.

It does not boast. It is not proud. It does not dishonor others. It’s not self-seeking it’s not easily angered and it keeps no records of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes. Always perseveres love never fails. Oh. And it is, uh, I believe Paul said as well off the top of my head, um, faith and love

Andrew: the greatest of

Josh: these is the characteristics of a Christian.

And the greatest of these is. So we are to love one another as Christ has loved us. And that is the commandment that God has given us, but it’s also the secret sauce to be letting us experience the full life. The side of heaven. That’s right.

Andrew: Thanks for listening to our show. It means a lot to us. And we hope that by listening, you grow closer in your relationship with Jesus and with others,

Josh: please help us out with writing our podcasts or leaving us a review on the platform. You’re listening to it. Lets you do that to also follow us on Instagram and please share this with your friends.

This helps us share this message of hope that is found in Jesus and his gospel. A message that has the potential. To change the lives of the people around you.

Andrew: And we want to hear from you. You can email message us on Instagram, or just catch up with us online on our, our website, where you can view our show notes and all the links to the things we talk about at this jesus’ life

Thanks for listening to our show.

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