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The Preamble
Episode No. 56

To really understand the grace Jesus showed by going to the cross, we have to understand why we needed Jesus on the cross in the first place. This week we talk through God’s Original Plan before sin entered the world.

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Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name is Josh. 

Andrew: Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus. Podcast, Josh you’re blinking so much that I think you might’ve just put super glue in your eye and instead of eye drops, you all right, man? 

Josh: Yeah, I wish it was super good. Cause then maybe my contact would stay in place.

I don’t know what it is. I feel goopy. Ooh, pink 

Andrew: guy, dude. It came back full circle. 

Josh: Came back. How did I get it the first 

Andrew: time? I remember we had all these pink discussions from your shower routine in the morning 

Josh: and like, yeah, because I’m very careful in my shower routine. I don’t get 

Andrew: pink. I know, but you just said you’re I feel as goopy.

So now I have a couple questions. Like, did your routine get rushed this morning? Did you go

Josh: couldn’t remember what part of the town. You know, you used the last word, 

Andrew: buddy, man. Uh, 

Josh: dude, what it started last night I was working like late last night. I started to go and then like, it goes back to normal. I don’t know what it is. I think it’s these contexts. 

Andrew: Yeah, probably just older, 

Josh: contextual good for like two weeks or something like that.

I think 

Andrew: you can get different. 

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I lose track of how long they’re in for 

Andrew: fun fact. I just wear, I wear dailies. Um, but I, but that’s because a like six months supply of daily contacts last week. Two years because I wear glasses most of the time. Um, cause dude, I’m like I work and I use a computer a lot during work, you know?

Um, and when I wear contacts with that, I just feel like my eyes get so dry kind of the opposite of where you’re at with pink eye, you know, but my eyes get really dry and not so itchy, just like worn out easily. Um, so anyway, man, Sorry. I hope you, uh, I hope you can get well soon, uh, from that fecal matter.

Josh: Let me just go on the record that my eyes, no itchy at all.

Well, last night I think it was like there was an eyelash or something in my eye. My eyes are super sensitive. I don’t know what the issue is. Uh, But I could feel it when I took the contacts out because I was like, oh, there’s still an eyelash in there. And I just chose to go to sleep with it in there.

Cause I had to get an eyelash out. Uh, and I think it made my goopy. I think I’m gonna blame the eyelash and not my FICO battery.

It really bothers me. It’s 

Andrew: really should, it would really bother your eye too, as you know now. 

Josh: Hey, everybody, it does turn into pink. I’m blaming you 

Andrew: so funny, dude. Welcome back, man. It’s good to be with you. Um, this week, this, this fine Thursday. It’s good to be back with you, Josh. 

Josh: It is, it’s good to be with me too.

Um, it’s, uh, it’s been a good week. Uh, I’m trying to think if there’s anything eventful that has happened this week. And I don’t think so. No, uh, this weekend I didn’t really do anything. I like cleaned because I needed to, and didn’t really want to wash my sheets because let’s be honest. It’s been a while you gotta 

Andrew: do it every once in a while.


Josh: gotta wash those sheets. I’m usually pretty anal about it too. Yeah. Well, I changed my sheets, like, I don’t know, three weeks ago, but I never washed the dirty ones. I just left them in the corner. Oh. And then you’re like, dang, I gotta change my sheets again. It’s still 30. 

Andrew: I think we just got to the Genesis of why your eye is a goopy, bro.

Josh: Hey, Milos 

Andrew: onto something, man. I just had to get you talking to me. 

Josh: There’s the, I have the best, no joke. I have the best comforters known to me. Do you absolutely love it. I have two of them because my dog gets his own because he leaks a little one. I don’t want them, like, we don’t want to him having 

Andrew: hers.

Yeah. It’s better to, it’s better to not. 

Josh: Yeah. Fantastic. I didn’t know what they’re called. I found them on Amazon somewhere. They’re not super cheap. They’re probably like. A hundred bucks maybe which in the comforter game might be cheap. I don’t really know in the comfort games. Yeah. Yeah. I just found these covers that are really super soft.

Um, easy to clean. Yeah. I’m a fan, except that you have to keep them on low heat for the no heat when you dry them. So it takes a long time. Yeah. And I forgot to do that once. And on my dog’s comforter, it’s like melted. Oh no. Oh no, like it’s, it must be the inside that’s melting or something. It just has a funky texture on the outside.

That’s part of it. Jack doesn’t 

Andrew: care. Maybe he does. I don’t know. But you know, he has his own comforter. Like how bad 

Josh: can it be? You pick you that dog. Yeah. Yeah. He’s another one, man. He’s been on my last nerve. The last couple of days. I yelled at him, which I don’t yell at Jack that often. Right. Uh, when was it?

I can’t remember. I went, I went looking for a campsite this weekend. I think it was then did I take him with me or did I not take him with me? No, I took him with me. Um, and he’s just like whining constantly what his issue is. So I yelled at him and I felt bad after I did it, but it worked, she shut up at least for a little while.

He was also 

Andrew: scared. Yeah, he was probably just shaking, dude. I’ve been having chicken drama. Um, none of them are dead though. I’m still, I’m still at 13. Yeah. We have 13 chickens and life is getting a little bit too good for them and they’re getting a little bit too brave and. They’re now pooping on my breezeway occasionally.

So I let them out to like free range as often as I can. And they’ve gotten this like good routine where I now like, they’ll follow me right back in their coop. It’s easy to put them away. All this stuff. They lots of bugs. They’re happy. They lay in the 

Josh: sun. I tend to be their mother. No, your wife sent me a video once of you like doing the chicken dance kind of thing.

And walking in front of them. Is that still the tradition? 

Andrew: Oh, no chicken dance required, but I need to take a bowl of snacks and they follow me, uh, like clockwork. It’s great. But, uh, but no man there now, like. They get a little bit more brave every time I let them out. And they’re now like making their way there, like way in our backyard, you know, and we have a big yard and like a lot of areas to explore, but they’re now making their way, all the way to the front yard, which is actually kind of fine.

Cause we’re still a ways back from the road and only a few go up. But there at this time, the problem is to get back to the backyard. Instead of walking around the house, they just look and they see the open between. House and garage, which is the breezeway. It’s like a covered porch, but open air. And, uh, anyway, dude, now, like the last two times I’ve let him out.

I’ve found two different piles of chicken poop, right in the middle of our breezeway. And I’m like, you ladies are kidding, too adventurous. Like this is not okay. So I want to keep letting them out. But I read on the Google that lemon juice and citrus is something that chicken. Kind of hate. So I went out and I sprayed a bunch of like lemon juice all over the, on both sides of the breezeway basically, and like on the path leading up to it.

So hopefully they smell that and they’re like, I’m not going over there, but chicken drama, man, chicken drama, but I haven’t had any killed recently. 

Josh: How many, how many eggs are you getting? A day? 

Andrew: 12 to 13. Almost every day. Yeah. What do you do with them? All dude. Well, there’s this one neighbor. I don’t like, so I just throw like six eggs at their house once a day, every day.

You’re like, where are these eggs coming from? No, I, uh, right now I have like seven dozen eggs in the fridge that I like washed and put in cartons. And usually, man, usually I can’t hang on to more than like two dozen at a time because like I give them to my, in-laws give them to my neighbors, people at the church, like, yeah, it’s real easy to give them away.

Cause they’re stinking. Good. Um, yeah. Yeah man. That’s interesting. Hmm. 

Josh: So have you seen the spray bottle, the spraying, the lemon on it? Have you seen the video? I think it was on Instagram. I saw it, it had to been cause it’s the only place I look, um, uh, I watched these videos of like crazy Cairns. Cause I dunno, they make me laugh.

It’s my enjoyment for the day and this crazy Karen video, like she’s like going through this dude’s mailbox and the guy comes out. He’s like, what are you doing in my mailbox? And she was like, there’s some shady stuff going on around here. You get too many packages. Um, she’s like from, he’s like from Amazon.

And he goes to take the package back from her and she sprays some in the piece with a water bottle, like a spray bottle, like you’d spread dog. That’s funny. And then she falls over and, you know, fix the injury. But since funny, man, yeah, those Karen’s out there. If you’re a Karen, can you stop quit? Cause let’s be honest.

You’re going to make it on the internet. One point, you’re going to hate the fact that you’re a Karen. That’s right. Um, even if you’re a dude, you can still be a Karen. Absolutely. 

Andrew: Absolutely. 

Josh: So this entitled the world we live in today, unfortunately the, I feel like they can do whatever they want 

Andrew: a spray bottle with them for confrontation filled with water.

Josh: Well, she had her dog with her Jordan. She did ever talk about the spray bottle was for the dog who just opened somebody’s watch. It’s illegal. It’s real. 

Andrew: Isn’t that like a federal crime? Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy man. 

Josh: Crazy. And maybe it’s not federal cause the USBs didn’t deliver it. And it was Amazon. I don’t know, but still use mailbox if you’re, if you’re a young folk who don’t know this, that is a federal crime to touch people’s mails.


Andrew: used to put frogs in people’s mailboxes often. Um, summer nights, we would catch a bunch of frogs at my buddy’s pond, go around to the people in the neighborhood. We didn’t like very much in the night and just put frogs in their mailboxes. And as I think about that as an adult now, I, uh, That probably they probably don’t check until like five or six the next day, like a normal person.

They probably had dead frogs in their mailboxes that smelled really bad. So what we did is probably like, probably cooked in there. It was actually probably really horrible. And like metal 

Josh: mailbox probably was just like heated 

Andrew: up like an oven. Yeah. In our minds, we were just like this frog’s gonna hop out and scare them.

But dude, we probably killed those frogs. Made horrible smelling mailboxes your murderer. We were not thinking, I mean, this was when I was like 12, so longterm thinking was not the best, uh, at the time, but yeah. Yeah. Well, thankfully 

Josh: we’re talking about the gospel of the day and how those back of your center and you need salvation.

So, you know, the fact that you’re a murderer. Yeah. Um, my come into play today. My need to remember, I killed a quail. In my backyard in Phoenix. Now, when I sit and when I say a quail, you probably picture my backyard like deserty or foresty. It, it wasn’t, it was all gravel. I don’t know why there was a quail back there, but my stepdad had a BB gun.

And well, if you have a BB gun, you need something to shoot at. Uh, so we set up shop to shoot. I don’t know. I might’ve been by myself, actually I set up shop to shoot something. And then unfortunately the quail family came through the yard at that exact moment. And man, I got a great aim and I shot that stupid thing.

I shouldn’t say stupid thing cause I felt horrible after the fact. Yeah. Yeah. I just killed a quail and oh, that sucks. And you’re like over the fence and just act like it never happened. No, that was that’s how I got over it. Yeah. Yeah. Just forgot about it. That’s no good. But we also, we did a lot of stupid things in that backyard.

We thought it’d be a great idea too. Catch a bucket of gasoline on fire. Oh my goodness. That’s a horrible did that. And then us being probably the same age you were, when you were a murderer, we were like, oh shoot, we got to put it out. So we threw water on it. Oh, no. Melting bucket of gasoline. All over the rocks and we’re like running over to the sandbox and we’re like bringing buckets of sand over to put it out.

And it was dude, 

Andrew: that thing it could have like exploded off. Yeah, that’s crazy. I, you think 

Josh: about the explosion part? Like if there’s like a big five gallon bucket. Yeah. There was, there was enough air 

Andrew: coming, but if it, if that, uh, if had dumped, you know, it all would have caught and it could have in a way exploded.

Not like bomb exploded did, but you 

Josh: know, it fell over. Oh, it fell over and like, it was just gasoline river. Wow. Damn like it wasn’t enough gasoline that it probably would’ve burned something down at, been, it burned itself out, but it terrified us, you know, 11, 12, 13 years old. Yeah. 

Andrew: And plenty for you to get in like a world of trouble.

If you got caught. 

Josh: Yeah, thankfully, our parents really weren’t around, so we just kind of do whatever we want to, um, 

Andrew: better or worse, you know? Yeah. 

Josh: For good or bad or good or bad. Um, we also used to take my stepdad’s hopefully never listened to these podcasts will probably kill me. Take his nail guns. We used to open up the shop back door and you could, you could just put it up against the table, just right to pull this, push the safety back.

You just watch them. 

Andrew: That’s funny as someone who now owns a nail gun and is over 30 years old. I still have done multiple test shots to see if I can get nails, the stick and trees and things, you know, like 20 feet away. Yeah. It’s a good time, especially. Cause if you pull it back just right, you can go rapid fire, like turn done.

That’s awesome and terrifying. 

Josh: Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Especially you like catch your finger on it.

There’s some woodwork and accidents that are pretty gnarly. Yeah. Like table saws. I had no idea. Table saws were so dangerous, dude, until. Probably my mid twenties. I started watching YouTube videos. Holy crap. This is going to kill somebody. Yeah, the whole going against the grain thing. That was the thing I used to play with my dad’s tables all the time.

Bill brown. Right. It’s the president. Kim was 

Andrew: the finger go across the grain anyway. Yeah, dude. 

Josh: Well, oh man. Good soar. Continuing the hope study series. Hope study. Last week we talked about the preamble and just kind of setting up the conversation. Preeminent talked a little bit about. The pre mumbles. Um, I don’t remember exactly what we actually talked about.

We talked about some versus the kind of stood out to us in general in life things that Andrew’s recently highlighted in his Bible app. That’s great. Uh, That’s what they should do since you listened to the app a lot, you should be able to say to the app, Hey, highlight that verse. And it should just know, and right.

I should be able to do the next thing that the Bible app works on. Reach out to life church and be like, Hey, I got an idea for your life. Totally, but then it’s always listening to you and then you get into that weird space of privacy 

Andrew: concerns. Yeah. Did you want your Bible listening to you? Like cereal?

Ready? Does we all know it? So do we want our apples doing that? I don’t know. 

Josh: Maybe how funny would that be? That’d be like this whole, like, I just feel like people will be really concerned of like, my Bible is going to know. You’re putting the Bible at the wrong position of authority, but, um, 

Andrew: okay. Jesus, 

Josh: Jesus, Jesus knows.

You’re sitting 

Andrew: already was happening and you had just yelled at your Jack at Jack very harshly, um, a couple of days ago and your Bible app just came on and quoted something about anchor, right at ULI. Don’t forget. 

Josh: Slow to anger. You’re like shut up Bible app. It’s the holy spirit edition of the app. Um, But I don’t know.

You gotta be careful saying that kind of stuff. Cause now you’re putting words in God’s mouth and I’m not sure you want to play that game. Not going to end well for yeah. But yes. So last week was the preamble this week. We’re talking about grace changes everything we ever read. And just give you background if you miss last week, uh, the hope study is a workbook, uh, that I’m currently writing.

Um, and it just helped me process thoughts as we’ve walked through the podcast, because a lot of the concepts we’ve talked about have made it inside of the hope study. Yeah. Um, so Andrew’s name should probably be on it as well, but my name’s not even on it, so I don’t have mine. Just say your name. It does say hill city on it.

We don’t want to, we don’t want to chase fame in that church because it never ends well for you. Um, but uh, this week we’re talking about grace changes everything. We’re talking about the gospel. We’re talking about how the, you know, what God’s original plan was for humanity for kiss Creek. Um, what changed in the midst of that plan?

Um, then what Jesus did about it. Um, and then also the, the, of course, this new life that we now have access to and the temptation to go back to the old life. Um, if we’re not too careful. Oh, there’s Lottie. 

Andrew: Yeah. Hopefully she’s not too loud. I will be. I 

Josh: sent her, I said she stopped, but, but she can’t hear me anyways because in a weird moment, right.

Andrew: She’s getting excited because she has some gas right now. So it is what it is. Maybe life. 

Josh: I get excited to Lottie when I have gas. So I get it. She’s getting big, dude. How old is she now? 

Andrew: Almost six months old. Yeah, she’s grown quick, man. I have a feeling she’s going to be tall. 

Josh: I haven’t thought she looked like Catherine at all, but the way you’re holding her now her face does.

Andrew: Yes, totally. I’ll be right back. I’m going to grab a pacifier. Welcome back, uh, hope study and yeah, this is, we figured we’d start, um, while we’re going into the text, but we figured we’d start with a week to day one God’s original plan. And really it’s so helpful to often like go all the way back. If you want to understand kind of how God set this whole thing up and why starting in Genesis.

It can be really profound, you know, to saying like, what is the Genesis of the story? What’s the beginning of this story? And really in Genesis two, um, that’s kinda where we pick this up. Um, this is after God had created, man. Um, and basically, uh, we’re understanding at this point, what the garden of Eden looked like and kind of what the relationship between God and man looked like at this point, God, an Adam, I should say.

And basically, uh, there’s a few kind of call-outs that I wanted to highlight. First of all God walked with Adam, like he spent time with Adam in the flesh. Um, every day in the garden, they hung out. They had time together and the Bible doesn’t go in great detail on what that looked like, but you can imagine it was literal time together getting to know each other, asking questions, talking, hanging out, enjoying the beauty of, of the creation.

God. But there’s a call out that says basically in the middle of the garden, God had created the tree of the knowledge of the good and of good and evil. Um, and then kind of says like, that’s the one thing that was off limits. Everything else was food for Adam. Everything else was for their purposes and for their uses.

Not one thing was the, Hey, don’t touch this, the hands-off. And that was kind of the foreshadowing of like the first, you know, a lot of people might, might look at this and say, this was where God granted free. Will, you know? Um, because he didn’t say you can’t touch this. He said, this is not for you. Um, this is off limits.

To you. Uh, but as we know, as the story progresses further, eventually Adam and Eve both choose to eat of the fruit, fruit of the tree, of the knowledge of good and evil, um, after being tricked by, by the serpent, by Satan, uh, to, um, to do so. So anyway, um, wanted to just hang out for a minute. I don’t know if you want to add anything to that first, before I go to a couple of them.

Kind of questions, uh, that you had put that, that are written in there, but I don’t know, man. Do you want to round that out any bit? Any more? 

Josh: And I think it’s great. Um, I think too, like, uh, it’s the same challenge that humanities still has, right? Um, to walk with God or walk away from, you know, separate from God, thinking that your way is better than God’s way.

It’s the same choice that Adam and Eve had. Like, there’s this concept in Christianity of limitation, God gives limitations, the blessing of limitation. Um, You know, oftentimes limitation feels like you’re missing out or, um, you’re not getting all that you want or however you want to portray it. Um, but oftentimes the limitation that God has created in your life is to protect you, to protect your relationship with God and protect your relationship with other people.

I would send him the picture it’s sin against God or it’s sin against people. Um, and you know, it’s you essentially choosing, just telling God. You know how I do it, it’s much better than how you do it. And it was the same thing with Adam and Eve in that moment, like they’re presented the choice, um, and they chose to do it their way and not believe God and not focus in on relationship and let this serve, but, you know, weasel his way in there or slither his way in there.

Maybe it’s a better way to say it, um, that we have to be careful of even today. Like there’s plenty of things that our hearts want. That are opposite of God’s desires. Um, yeah, we have to choose not to pursue. Um, yeah. And I think oftentimes we miss that, like the, the game hasn’t changed. Right, right. The game is still either walk, right?

Yeah. You’re going to walk with Jesus. You’re not going to walk with Jesus. And the, the enemy’s goal is to convince you not to walk with Jesus. I think that’s the game. 

Andrew: Yeah, straight up and that’s always been the game, man. There was one, it’s a question of like, what attributes do you see of, or what elements do you see of relationship and kind of how God treated Adam in that season of like being in the garden and being present.

Um, and I wrote, I just spent a minute and wrote a few notes. You might see them in red and cause I printed this out. One, like it says that God literally trusted Adam to name all the, all the animals, that creature or that he had created. And after Adam named them, he was just like, that’s what they are.

Adam’s like, that’s a cow. God’s like, yep. That is now a cow, which is really cool. And, and like, that’s pretty awesome. Trust of just like, I’m going to make this thing and then I’ll let you have the chance to make your mark. Um, permanently. So that’s pretty cool. And then like physical closeness, you know, like God was, was close and present with Adam often and kind of always, but at least daily, literally close in person.

Um, and then another is just harmony. Like everything was, was balanced and well, um, everything was going well in, in God’s created kind of original plan for Adam. Um, so those were the things that stood out to me. 

Josh: No, that’s good. I think the two big things that stand out to me, um, was the fact that God wasn’t okay with Adam being alone.

Like he, he knew and understood Adam and his needs and what was going to be best for him. So he provided what was best for him. And in this case, you know, creating Eve and then the. And you kind of touched on this to you, but, uh, Genesis two ends with, or towards the end. It says Adam and his wife Eve were both naked and they felt no shame.

Um, which I think is just great imagery. Like it was an actual thing, like, yes, they were both naked, but I think it’s also imagery, um, to show just how. The vulnerable and open. They were with God that nothing separated them. Um, no clothes, no, nothing. Like they were just completely exposed in the best of sense to God.

And I think we often use that too. Um, we don’t like being exposed. We assume shame is going to be a part of it. 

Andrew: Well, we don’t even like to, to feel exposed, you know, like we, cause reality is like, God knows everything. God sees everything. It’s no, the things we think of. Hidden from him, obviously are not, you know, but we like to cover them up with, you could say close, you know, cover our nakedness or cover are the things that we see as shameful from him, but they’re not hidden.

They’re just like, we’re kind of deluding ourselves. Anytime we think that we’re just, or like deceiving ourselves. I’ve just like, yeah, God, doesn’t see this, or he’s not going to deal with this and me. I can keep that one hidden, you know, cause I’m doing all these other things like that’s okay. I don’t have to, I don’t have to show that part of me to God, but he already knows.

It’s just whether or not we are willing to. Be honest about it or, or not be honest about it. So, yeah, man. 

Josh: Yeah. Well, I think too, like the person that most, the person you lie to the most is yourself, right? Like that’s just the reality. I mean, some people lie to themselves more than others. Karen. And like, you, you see that play itself out as a joke.

We all do, but, uh, but that’s the same truth, right? Like if I just act like something isn’t a thing, um, or act like I can do this in secret and not be exposed to whatever, or I don’t have to actually love and care for people. I can just fake it. Right. Like as long as I’m doing all these things and everything’s great, like we just lie to herself that we’re okay.

Or we started the comparison game, right? Yeah. You’re like, sure. I got angry and sure. I, you know, I really don’t like that person and, you know, Hey, uh, probably on the verge of hate. Um, but nothing like Joe Joe’s Joseph, um, right. Like there’s that piece of it where you can play that. Yeah. I think as well.

And, um, we just gotta be careful of it. Um, because the reality is, yeah, God, like you said, God sees everything anyways. Um, like it’s not, uh, uh, You’re not hiding anything from him. And you’re going to find the most fruit in your relationship. Choose to walk like Adam and Eve walked fully exposed and fully vulnerable between you and God in relationship.

Um, and I would argue the same with people. Be the real you, uh, with your, your awards and your beauty. Um, like that’s where the depth of life really comes in. That’s where the fullness of life comes in. And when we choose to live that type of life, rather than right. The game where I’m just trying to create a facade of me being better than I actually am, or be being worse than I actually am.

Like there’s some people play that game too. Um, so we will feel sorry for him. I don’t know what was me. Well, it was me. I always like to joke that, you know, sin, sin clothe us. So we should just walk around naked. I think that should be the, the rule of the game. We should just all be.

Andrew’s dealing with a screaming baby. Who’s like doing Superman right now into the camera, which is rather entertaining. Um, but we’ll move onto the next question. Uh, when I pull it off and actually look at it, Andrew is much more prepared than I was. Uh, um, so I’m pulling it up and installing well, Andrew takes care of baby and Lottie.

Um, Genesis 1 27 and this is in the NIV says, so God created mankind in his own image and the image of God, he created them, male and female. He created them. Um, what characteristics of God do you see in humanity and, uh, is the image. What characteristics of God do you think humanity is the image of God compared to the rest of creation?

Um, and I think this question is important because you’re different than the rest of creation as a human, um, like you have, uh, The ability to reason you have the ability to be in depth of relationship. You have the ability to communicate on levels that the rest of creation can’t communicate. Um, there’s a variety of images of God that you carry.

Um, you have a sense of what is right and what is wrong. Um, other parts of creation doesn’t necessarily have that same thing. Um, so like there’s, you’re special in that sense. Now you’re a part of, you know, whatever it is, eight bills. 9 billion people that have ever walked in the planet. Um, so you’re not that special, but you’re more special than the rest of creation.

And you’re also special in the sense that yeah, God wants relationship with you, just like God has relationship with the Trinity. You know, God, the father, God, the son, God, the holy spirit. And they, they walk in, in relationship in unity with one another. You have that same ability to have with God and have with the rest of humanity.

Um, that’s a image of God that most of us don’t. Are most of the rest of creation, I should say all the rest of creation does not carry. Um, so I think we miss that too, of what do we have access to? And then I think the question after that would be, are you taking advantage of it? Like if you have the ability to be in depth, in relationship with God and depth and relationship with one another, are you, are you taking advantage of that ability?

Are you just acting like. The cow in the field, uh, just kind of doing your own thing and not worrying about it. Um, and missing out on so much fruit of life, fruit of relationship, because you’re choosing not to engage either with, with Jesus or engage with people. 

Andrew: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. And man, I just to add to what you’re thinking, like one of the things that I think is a real mark on.

Um, how we’re made unique and sorry, if you hear a lot of too much, she is just, uh, not having it at all. Um, but it’s nap time and I don’t know. Life’s crazy. So we gotta, we gotta find time when we can, I guess. Um, but conscious like our conscience is something that I think makes us extremely unique to the rest of creation.

And I think it’s the chance to really understand the knowledge of good and evil.

Josh: Yeah, that’s good. Um, and it’s hard to, it’s easy for us to say good and evil on you. You quickly run to that place of a list of do’s and don’ts good. Christians do this bad. Do this, or non-Christians do this however you want to put it. I don’t care. Um, but it’s more than that. It’s good. And evil is, is God’s ways, not God’s ways, right?

Like walking with Jesus in depth of relationship, um, or not walking with Jesus and depth of relationship. Now there’s a part of this that the game did change, um, under the new covenant. Um, yes. Good and evil still exists, but you know, living under grace and we’ll get to grace cause you know, that’s this whole week.

Section of grace changes everything. Um, so the game’s a little bit different for you. You have the ability to fail and get right back up. Um, but I think. Too often we get into that legalism of good and bad, um, that we have to be really careful of. Um, and think of it more in relationship things that build a relationship with Jesus and others and things that destroy a relationship with Jesus and others, I think is a healthier way to look at.

It. Absolutely keeps you from going down those paths of judgment of like I’m so much better than these morons are up so much better than, you know, I think it keeps you a little bit more humble. Um, and I think it’s easier to define in your head. You’re like, is this hurting my relationship with God? Or is this hurting my relationship with so-and-so?

If it is then I would call it sin and you should repent and ask for forgiveness and move on. But, uh, I think there’s a piece of that too, that, that we often miss. But I think it’s important too, to like circle back around to what you said. And even what I said about, um, just the exposure and sign of relationship, um, with Jesus and then being physically naked, being a representation of the level of relationship that they were inside of with, with God.

Uh, and here’s, here’s the next question? Um, that I think it’d be good to answer is as you think of your relationship with Jesus and watch, in what ways do you feel completely exposed to him? And in which ways do you feel hidden or unseen? 

Andrew: That’s a great question. What I was kind of alluding to is like in my head, I always know that I’m totally exposed before the Lord.

Um, but in my heart, I think sometimes I think. Areas of my life or chunks of me are not. And I’m like, oh, I’ll just ignore talking about that with him. And he won’t bring it up. I won’t bring it up to the Lord. He won’t bring it up to me. We’ll have a unspoken agreement. And that’s just like the wrong, you know, like it’s not true.

It’s only true in my mind. Um, maybe I don’t even think it’s true in my mind. It’s just like, maybe sometimes I behave that way where I’m like, I’m not going to say anything. You’re not going to say anything. It’s all good, you know? 

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And if you do say something, I’m not, like you said something else.

Um, and talk about that instead now. And, and I think too, like we often think. Things that we hide are sinful. Um, like it could be a habitual sin. It could be, it could be whatever, um, from a sin perspective, something that destroys relationship. Um, and that’s what we’re hiding, but I think too, like, because Jesus wants to deal with the destruction inside of your life and to deal with that destruction, he has to deal with the cause of that destruction, which is usually past experience past her past pain.

Um, Faulty wiring or faulty thinking that you’ve believed for so long, you’d be a lot of different things. And I think oftentimes things that are hidden, things are unseen or maybe even a better word are things that are off limits are like past pain in your life. Like have you gone through extraordinarily difficult things that you just, you don’t like to think about?

You don’t like. You know, acknowledged that they ever happened. Um, when they do come up in conversation or an experience feels the same, you just shut down, um, or, you know, avoid it altogether and move the other direction. But maybe those are the areas in your life that you’re. You feel hidden or unseen with Jesus?

Like those are, like Andrew said the off-limits conversations, um, that like for us to really find hope for us to really find the freedom, those are the conversations that Jesus wants you to have. Yeah. I’m with him. And I know it’s scary. Like I get it. Um, you know, I have past experiences that are hard to talk about, but, um, I forced myself to talk about them with Jesus.

I forced myself to talk about them with, with trusted. Yeah, but, um, like that’s where you’re gonna find the real freedom. That’s where going to find the real healing, because in reality, like that stuffs, stuffs a holding on it still has an effect. And if you’re choosing not to deal with it, like it’s going to come up, it’s going to, it’s going to come up in an explosion.

It’s going to come up and yeah. On, um, related ways, like has a way of pulling itself out, um, and like seeping through the cracks that can get really scary for you. Or like all of a sudden you go one to a thousand on something and you’re like, how in the hell did I get so angry? And in reality, it triggered something of your past that you feel is off limits to God and never dealt with.

It’s oozing its way out or a seam has been burst. It’s coming out in a different way. Yeah. Maybe that’s why I got so mad at my dog and yelled at him was because there’s an unrelated, it’s unrelated to my dog. It’s a control thing. And I’ll have to ask Jesus about it. Right. Like, that’s the type of expose relationship that GS wants to have with you?

Um, like he wants to deal with, um, does your child just close that door or did that just magically close? 

Andrew: Catherine is now in my office. It’s a madhouse in here, man. Yes. She closed that up and she 

Josh: closed the door. Your wife’s outside, like throwing snacks on the ground that convinced them to come into your office.

I need alone time. I need a quiet. No, she’s now working father. Yeah, man. 

Andrew: It’s something, but yeah, you could say goes but two year old. 

Josh: Well, I couldn’t see it. I just saw the door close. You’re like, ah, but you’re right. 

Andrew: That’s the same thing with, okay. I was just going to say. It’s not the chicken’s fault.

They’re pooping on my breezeway. They’re just like, I’m just an animal. I poop outside. Do you let me out of my place? And I’m going to go anywhere. I want, you know, and explore it. And I’m sure they just happen to poop, but it’s not like they had any thought whatsoever. I’m going to make Andrew mad. They don’t even know my name.

They’re just chickens. They recognize my voice. That’s it. You know? But, uh, there’s probably something within me of like, I want to keep up appearances or I don’t want that dirty stuff around my house or whatever it is. That’s deeper. That’s that’s causing me to be annoyed with the chickens pooping. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah, no, that’s good. Yeah. I think if you really want to find hope, like you want to be able to weather any storm in your life, regardless of circumstances, regardless if you’re, you know, the dreams of your heart are coming to fruition or not, um, like to have hope in all those circumstances and situations like, you know, I can’t think of anything harder than losing a loved one.

So I always, I always looked for that. That perspective. Like, even if you’re losing a loved one, you keep your faith, you still know that Jesus is still Jesus. And more than that, he’s still walking with you in the midst of that. So what’s your source of comfort and peace, even when everything else seems to be falling around, you know, falling apart around you.

I think there’s that piece of it that, um, I forgot where I was going with this, but I’ll, I’ll circle back in my own head real quick. Um, there’s there’s that piece of it. Yeah. To get to that place, to hold on to that thing, like its depth of relationship with Jesus. And I think so often Christians like to look at this and say, oh yeah, I pray on a regular basis.

I read my Bible almost every day. You know, I, whatever, whatever, you know, I’m reading through whatever book of the Bible. That’s really hard to understand. Um, because you know, I’m a good Christian and I think so often. People get confused and get discouraged because they feel like they’re doing all the right things, but yet their intimacy or depth of relationship is never increasing with Jesus.

Like they feel like Jesus still distant. They feel at times that Jesus still doesn’t see them. Um, and so on and so forth. Or maybe it’s a sin that they’re just fighting and fighting and fighting and it keeps coming back. Um, they can’t get a handle on it and they they’re discouraged by that. I think so often we just, and we’ve said this, I don’t know, a thousand times on the podcast at this point, this is episode 50 something, 56.

Is it 56? It is. Yeah. I don’t know what it is, which is crazy. Um, but. Relations like the key is relationship with Jesus, the keys to foster relationship with Jesus. So I don’t know any other way to do it then, then to back up and just think, like, think of your best friend or even think of your, your spouse, maybe your spouse is your best friend.

Um, like even from that perspective, how did your relationship to them? Oh, I would argue it probably wasn’t one day. You didn’t know each other the next day you knew everything about each other. It’s just not how relationship works. And relationship is still relationship with God. Like the same characteristics of relationship are still at play.

It’s actually means if I’m. Grow in depth and relationship with Jesus. Then I probably need to spend a fair amount of time in conversation with Jesus. Like those are the things that are going to foster relationship. Well, I don’t know what God’s voice sounds like. Okay. Start with you just sharing your heart with Jesus.

Um, Josh, that feels weird and awkward. I know just like it would with anyone else that you, you just met, like yeah. It’s weird and awkward. That’s normal. That’s okay. But, but spend time foster a relationship. Jesus. So maybe you’re a guy or a gal. You read your Bible every morning at 6:00 AM like clockwork and you are on it every day.

Um, but you’ve missed the step of when I’m reading scripture, I’m trying to have a conversation with Jesus. So my goal isn’t to complete all the things that I set out to read that day. My goal is to get prompted by Jesus or prompted by the spirit to speak into my life. So I could be reading, you know, I’m looking at separated from God day two right now, and it’s Romans three.

I could be reading Romans three and I’m like, my plan today was read all of Romans three, 400. That was my plan. Um, I could read all of Romans three, four, and five, check that thing off my to-do list and be like, man, such a good Christian dude. So chapters of the Bible today, look at me kudos. Um, but in the midst of those three chapters, no prompting.

Nothing, nothing I’ve thought about nothing. I really want to the digging with Jesus. I bred through it. I said, my prayers. I thought of a couple of verses in there that I remember. And I included them into my prayer. Really loved it. And he said that nobody, you know, living is right. Not even a one, not even me.

Thank you so much for that. Um, instead the conversation should look like this. I get to that same verse. There’s nobody’s nobody lives. Right. Not even one. Nobody knows the score. Nobody alert, nobody alert for God. And then the question that prompts my head of God, where in my life of my not recognizing you’re at work, where am I life?

Am I completely missing you? Um, what little small little, um, maybe it’s a nugget. And then the prompt back is like, Hey Josh, remember you. Remember you had that experience. Two years ago with such and such person. And then you’re like, oh, now we’re going down the rabbit trail. I don’t want to bring this up, right?

Yeah. Yeah. You’re like, God, that’s an off limits. Talk. Like I wrote that down as an off limits topic of our relationship, but don’t remember this, knock it off. We have a handshake. Like there’s there’s little promptings that happen inside of scripture. Like that’s the goal of this, right? It’s the prompt a conversation and then dig into the conversation and keep having it.

Don’t stop. You. Don’t be like, oh God, I talked about that really quick. We’re good. No, it’s it’s relationship. So you’re going to talk about it and then you’re going to keep talking about it. My guess you’re gonna probably talk about a couple of times. Excuse me. I’m burping, like crazy. That’s rude and obnoxious.

I apologize. Um, Lottie gave me her gas. Mine’s just coming off the top. Um, But like that’s relationship. Are you having that you’ll have that conversation numerous times throughout the day? I would assume. Um, at least for me, that’s my experience that when, you know, something’s prompted throughout the day, like I’m going to keep thinking about it.

I’m thinking, talking about it. I’m going to keep fighting, you know, moments to, to, um, have that conversation with God. And here’s the beauty of conversation and relationship with God compared to relationship with any other human being or any other being I should say, I don’t want to put God in a human being category.

Um, Is, you can have those conversations when you’re around people. And then we’ve been know you’re having those conversations because those conversations can be from spirit to spirit internal. Um, so you could be sitting on your couch, your kids can be going bat shit crazy. Um, and in that moment, you can still have a conversation with God about the things that God wants to have conversation with.

Yeah, that’s the beauty of this. Um, you can be sitting in work in a meeting that’s really boring. It feels like a waste of your time. You have nothing to engage in, to put into the meeting, and there’s no reason for you to engage in the meeting. And in that moment, you could have your, you know, cause we’re all in the zoom world still, you could have resume on, you can be staring right at the camera and the moment you could be talking with Jesus, like that’s the cool thing about our relationship with Jesus.

Any other relationship you’ll ever have, like it’s a spirit relationship, it’s your soul to God’s spirit. And that’s the place that you get to live inside of. But. To circle back around and put a bow on all this. If you’re not fostering a relationship with Jesus, like what’s the point? I don’t get it. I don’t, I don’t understand.

Keep, I don’t know why you 

Andrew: so much time keeping up appearances might be like a. A reason to look like you have real relationship with Jesus or to, you know, to read the three chapters or to show up to church and youth group to and volunteer and whatever, like keeping up appearances is something we do in some phases of our life, but, or in some areas of your life, I guess.

But, um, But man, if you’re phoning it in with Jesus, it’s probably better to just not phone in it at all, or to fully commit like the Bible talks about like, if you’re lukewarm, um, I just want to spit you out of your mouth or my mouth, you know? And God’s words like you’re lukewarm, if you’re just hanging out in the middle, that’s not okay.

That’s not what we do here. So yeah. I don’t know, it’s just not worth it either. You know, there’s so much fruit and real relationship with the Lord that it’s way better to just commit or to not act like you’re committing, you know, and from my opinion, um, don’t try to be lukewarm. Nobody wants to just be, I don’t know.

Like mush, you know, that’s not appealing, it’s not attractive and it’s not going to help you either. But I was just going to add to what you were saying about like the, the, the boring meeting or the screaming kids is, as you know, I have often, um, man, in those moments, one really easy way to engage in my experience is just to say like, God, do you want to teach me anything from this?

Do you want to speak anything to me in this moment? Is there anything you want to reveal about me to me? Is there anything I need to learn right now? If you ask real questions, those, those are ones that have worked for me to start in, in conversation with them in the past and start learning some things from the Lord.

But, um, maybe you have different questions, but simple, you know, it’s just like that open-handed posture, you know, that churches will often have you do when you pray for different reasons. It’s like, open-handed, I’m willing to hear. From the Lord in this time. Um, I’d just say like open questions are a great place to start of.

Hey, what do you want me to take away from this experience? What do you want me to learn in this season? What do you want to teach me from my kids screaming and my blood pressure going up in that. You know, um, cause there’s always something, if you’re open from like 

Josh: about it, even from a selfish perspective, you can ask this questions of like, God, my kids are going nuts right now.

I’m angry. Um, I’m in this place where like, I don’t like my children, um, and I don’t want to be here. So from a selfish perspective, what do I do differently? Um, what are things that I probably should deal with in my own heart and life? Um, just so this situation. Better. Right. And maybe it’s just perspective, like a perspective change is enough to help you through those, those difficult times.

Like, there’s that piece of this too. So like be selfish. It’s okay. God can handle it. Um, at least in your conversations with him, the rest of being selfish, avoid it, like the plague, because it’s destructive to relationship, but inside relationship with Jesus, um, dig into those things, like have those, like Andrew saying.

Ask those questions. Um, you know, got them really like when I feel angry or I feel anxious and anxious is something new for me. I’ve never really been an anxious person or if I was, maybe that’s more true. So now when those emotions show up at my life, like I’m doing what Andrew’s doing, I’m asking those questions.

Why am I bothered right now? Like what what’s really going on, that, that I’m feeling, you know, the heartbeat faster or I’m feeling, you know, you know, the emotions are the physical representation of anxiety, but yeah, like dig into those things and figure out what that is. Like use those opportunities where you feel like you’re not living up.

I hate to say it this way, but you’re not living up to God’s standards. So like something’s wrong. Um, and use that as a jumping off point to have conversation with God, you know, one thing I found, um, you know, and you’ll find this as we go through the hope study, w we’ll try to put a bow on this, cause I know Andrew has a meeting to get to you, but, um, as we put a bow on this, the whole thing of the hope study is you’ll find.

If you’re going to walk in relationship with Jesus and foster relationship, Jesus, you’re going to spend a lot more time praying and having a conversation with Jesus than any other spiritual. By far. Um, and this isn’t just from my own experience. This is from experience of people that I’ve talked to that are walking similar with paths, whether they’re walking with me with it in this path.

And that’s where we, and we’ve learned together, or they’re walking completely separate path from me and we just cross paths and they’re telling me their story. Um, like that is a characteristic that’s true. They’re spending more time in conversation with Jesus than they’ve ever had before. Um, and I think all too often, we, we miss that, um, I just got a text message from my hotel.

Uh, Tom, what’s your eye doctor person. And I’m a tourist. I think I’m going to get charged for that appointment. And I called them yesterday and cancel appointment, but she just got a text message, like an automated one here. I’m gonna, I’m gonna throw a hissy fit. I’m going to be a Karen. I’m going to go down to that store.

And I’m a throw thing. Have you seen that video? No, just walk 

Andrew: in and yell. Like I got pink guy and I’m going to share it, walk in and yell. I’ve got pinkeye and I’m going to spread it all around this office. 

Josh: I’m not a bidding that Andrew, because pink guy comes from fecal matter nine times out of 10 and I’m not admitting fecal matter.

Sounds dirty unclean. Right? Uh, there’s a TV show called the league. Have you ever seen it? 

Andrew: Yes. I used to watch it often. I haven’t for a couple seasons, but it always made me 

Josh: laugh so much, dude. He’s Jewish. I can’t remember his name and the character, but he always goes unclean. That’s what I think of. We got to tie this cause I got a roll with the sec.

Yeah. Recommend watching the show. It’s I think it’s dirty, but, um, but it’s still funny. So if you’re okay with it. By all means, watch away. It’s like locker room humor. So you have to be okay with locker room humor. Uh, but yeah, I think that’s the bow around this, so we didn’t get that far. Um, Andrew we’d stuck in God’s original plan.

Um, we didn’t really get into the original plan piece of, um, or what changed that original plan of, um, us being separated from God because of sin, not because of the structure of sin. Um, but we’ll, we’ll keep going through. Um, grace changes everything and then. Once the Jesus shows up on the scene, um, you know, where grace really changed everything.

Um, we’ll, we’ll talk about what that new life feels like and what it looks like. Um, then how do we embrace it? Even though we kind of touched on a lot of those things today, we’ll dig into them a little bit deeper. Um, but thanks for listening. Thanks for digging in. Um, as always Andrew, it’s good to see my friend.

Good to see you. My man, 

Andrew: thanks for listening to our show. It really means a lot to us and we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and 

Josh: with others. And it also helps us out. If you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening on and also follow us on Instagram and the Facebook.

Now sharing this with your friends, isn’t just to get the word out of the podcast. We believe that we have the message of hope that’s found in the gospel of Jesus Christ and you sharing. This has the ability to transform the lives of the people around you. 

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