“Is there anything you feel like you have to do to please God that isn’t relationship with Jesus?” We start a new series this week as we talk through how we have hope and freedom in Christ. All too often Christianity feels like a chore or a burden and it shouldn’t feel that way. Journey with us through the letter to the Galatians on these topics of freedom and hope of the Gospel.
Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name is Josh.
Andrew: Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast. And we’re back new season. We’re back. How are you doing Josh
Josh: season and everything Andrew I’m doing well, dude, I’ll be honest. I missed you. I know we talked a couple of times over our break still.
I miss a
Andrew: you as well. We did like quick conversations, like, Hey, how you doing? Blah, blah, blah. So yeah, I missed you too, man. It’s been a couple of weeks, but it feels much longer. I don’t know if that’s just because life is demanding or what, but I’m glad to be back with you, man.
Josh: Yeah, probably it probably is.
Uh, and then having a sick wife doesn’t help either. So for you,
Andrew: oh, your wife, I didn’t know you had a wife and she’s sick. I’m sorry,
dude. A lot can happen in three weeks. That’s intense. That would actually be hilarious if you’re like, yeah, I got married and, uh, she’s sick and I’m just scared. Uh, crazy. No, ma’am, um, dude, I’m sitting outside, this is the first time I’ve ever done that, uh, for our podcast. So hopefully there’s not weird background noise, but it is like amazing weather here.
It’s like 70 or close to it and sunny blue sky, like it’s just too good to be inside, you know?
Josh: Yeah. That’s what our weekend was like. And now it’s, it’s still nice out. It’s still like 70 degrees or something, but it’s overcast cloudy today. Yeah, those really? Oh, go ahead. I said it was really, really hard to, to be in meetings yesterday when you knew it was really nice outside.
Andrew: Yeah. That’s when you’re like, ah, let’s go audio only. And I’m going to be walking, uh, at Palmer park in Colorado Springs. Um, Dude. There’s like four or five large bumblebees, like on flowers, not far behind me. It’s a little freaky. Like they’re the kind of bees you hear from like six feet away, you know, uh, even if they’re socially distance, do you hear them fully?
And uh, I’m hoping they don’t decide to come and land on my back while I’m talking to you.
Josh: That’s good. Like these are kind of the worst. I’m not a fan. Um, it’s always the things that, like, if there’s a bee around, I’m getting stung, it’s just, that’s how it’s gonna play out. Uh, my entire life has been this way.
Uh, we used to have, so in high school is the guy, always the guy I’m getting stung. I’ve get, I got stung in the finger ones. Like, how do you get stung in the finger? Um, but now in high school, they were doing a bunch of construction around our high school, like building homes and whatnot. When I was like, yeah, I was still on campus.
So it must have been my sophomore year, maybe my freshman year of high school. And we used to eat outside every day. Cause shoot it’s Arizona. Why not? Uh, and they had like this pizza cart. That’s where he like buy your whatever pizza brand. It was, I don’t remember now. Um, and uh, I’m waiting in line for that.
And then I was like, this be flying around and I like swipe at it with my hand and freaking out Mary and the finger. You’re like, how much should a heck? How does this even happen?
Andrew: May happen. That’s rough, man. That’s rough. Yeah. I’ve had some bad beasts things like one, I was helping my friend, uh, on his farm one time I was little and he had tricked me and had invited me over to go swim in his pond because he had an awesome zip line and like dark and all this stuff.
And when I got there, he’s like, oh, by the way, we got to like shovel this huge pile of cow crap from one place to another, and then we can swim. So at that point it was more like a bath. But halfway through, uh, halfway through that swimming or halfway through the shuffling, this wasp comes out of nowhere and stings me like right above my eye.
And dude, within like five minutes, my whole eyelid was like swelled shut. And I was like playing, you know, in the house, like taking Benadryl and all this stuff. I don’t even think, I don’t know. I’m usually not, but that wasp got me like right in the soft part of my skin, right above my eye, below my eyelid or eyelash.
And it was just like horrible, horrible, horrible. So,
Josh: yeah, I don’t remember if it was wasp or if it was a Hornet. Uh, but I was little, so probably like six or seven I’m over at his house and he got stuck and I like, and when WAFs sting, they like. Steve over and over and over again, they don’t stop. They just keep like humping your head.
And I just watched my friend getting stung over and over again. I didn’t know what to do. He was like, ah, I don’t remember his name at this point, but maybe get sung around me. I’m not the guy to help you. I’m just going to freeze up and be like, I don’t even know what to do. I am
Andrew: going to help you.
I’ll tell you that. But dude, speaking of. Can I help you? It’s a new season where in Galatians, what’s a season.
Josh: How do we land like a creative name? Um, Probably do we need a creative name, but like, let’s be honest. We don’t plan. Well, um, we didn’t parables, this is what we’re doing. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
Uh, but then we’re like, do we should talk about Galatians and, um, We never came up with a, really a title for the series. So this is just the relation series and I know that’s not sexy and it’s not fun. And you’re like, oh, what is this going to be? Um, it’s going to be good. That’s what it’s going to be.
That’s all that matters. We’re going to call this the good season. Right?
Andrew: I like that. I like that.
Josh: The good seeds is good place. Isn’t that you show the good place.
Andrew: Yeah. Let’s literally call it the good season. And then when people are like, Hey, I want to check out your show and be like, we can just be like, Hey, start with the good season.
And they’ll be like, oh yeah. Okay. And then like, literally it’s just called the good season.
Josh: And then if it doesn’t live up to your expectations of good, like that’s on you, not on us. It’s not us. It’s them. That’s how I look at it. No, we, we, we started in the Galatians because. And there’s been a theme right along our podcast for a while now of like, what does it mean to truly live in the gospel and only the gospel and what is the freedom that we experienced the full life that we experience that Jesus promised in John 10, 10?
Um, That we experienced when we live in this life. And that’s kind of been a theme going all the way through, and we’re just kind of putting a cap on that theme. Well, the key thing would probably continue after the series. Let’s be honest because this is the Jesus life, but, um, Galatians is all about freedom.
And how do we live in the freedom now that we’ve now found in the gospel? Um, and you know, it’s chock full of, of beauty. Uh, I’ve gone through Galatians. Like, I dunno how many times? Probably six or seven, maybe even more times in the last. Month and a half, two months I’m no longer English the Timothy’s, but, uh, It’s just been super, super helpful for me in my walk with Jesus.
And we think it’d be super, super helpful with others and their walk with Jesus. Um, as we look at Paul’s words to the Galatians on how to live this journey, his life, um, and the freedom that you now have inside of it and stopped going back to trying to live this life any other way. Um, and that’s how we start essentially, um, this letter to them.
To the church, but I think what, what a good title for this episode would be is no other gospel
Andrew: gospel. I think so, too. Um, And we’ll get, we’ll get there really soon, really quick. Um, I was just going to say, yes, you’ve been reading and thinking about Galatians for a while. Well, now, like you just said, but in the last week or two weeks, since whenever you and I decided this is where we’re going to go next, um, I’ve been like listening to Galatians and reading it as well.
Um, but I’ve listened to in a few different versions, like the message as well as an Ivy. Um, and then read some NASB. So I’m just trying to get different perspectives on it a little bit, um, that I can interpret nonsense, like commentaries and stuff. But, um, man, one thing that stands out in every version of Galatians that I’ve read or listened to is that Paul was like stink and bold.
Like he he’s writing to them. Kinda upset, uh, at the, at the outset upset because they seem to have lost their way or confused the message, confused the faith a little bit, the gospel a little bit, um, for a lot of reasons. And he’s straight up kinda mad with him and like setting him straight. And then also just saying like, here’s, here’s the gospel straight up.
Here’s how, you know, That my life changed and that it was real straight up. Like it wasn’t this I’m going to make a bunch of money by changing everything in my life. And, uh, and preaching the gospel is like, no, I’m going to do the hardest possible thing and go from persecuting the church to preaching and growing the church, um, growing the kingdom of heaven the way as they called it at the time.
Um, Followers of Christ and, you know, he’s, I just, I dunno, Paul’s boldness stands out real clear, um, in glacier and that’s a theme that has that I’ve walked away with often and, um, You know, in our parable series, Josh, we, we would always give kind of like a overview of like our version of the parable that when I would do it, it always ended up in three times as long as the actual parable.
Um, but, uh, I don’t know that we’ll like necessarily read word for word, the scripture that we’re referencing, but we might sometimes for a verse or two, but. Today, we’re in Galatians one, um, primarily verses one through 10. So if you are listening to this, uh, and you want to think more about it, we’d really encourage you to go and read actually just all of Galatians one.
Cause then you’ll kind of be ready for, uh, our next episode or two after that. But yeah, man, that theme of boldness stands out. Big time to me and in this book in general, and I wanted to see if any other themes kind of stand out to you as a, as a through line of
Josh: Galatians. Yeah, I think it’s important to remember, especially in read the epistles.
So I’m really in your Bible, anything that starts with a name, like a name of a place, there’d be an epistle. Um, and essentially all they are letters to that group of Christians in that area. Um, so Paul’s writing a letter to the Christians in, in, uh, glacier, I think is how it’s pronounced. Yeah. The colation people, um, So typically in Paul’s letters, he’s correcting behavior.
So these are all churches that he starts at some point along the way. And now he’s writing back to them oftentimes to correct things of where they just kind of steer the wrong direction. Um, they’re getting back on track and that’s where Paul is starting here is they’ve added things to the gospel rhythm tip.
What’s really happening in Glacia is. The Jews that am now become, Christians are actually adding things to Christianity in terms of they have to be circumcised. They have to avoid these foods, um, Jewish tradition, um, to the gospel. And Paul’s just trying to reconnect them. Um, and the first parts of these verses and the second half, um, Elisa, Galatians chapter one, Paul is.
Essentially giving himself credibility, uh, for the gospel that he preaches. Um, since that was up for debate in, in glacier as well at the time. And he’s just verifying of like, here’s the message that I’ve preached and I’ve preached this for years at this point. Um, and now I’ve gone to the, the apostles, um, and they’ve verified my gospel to be the gospel.
So. Just kind of putting himself back to no, this came directly from Jesus. I’m an, I’m an apostle myself. Um, so some authority and a credibility to what he’s trying to preach and change.
Andrew: Absolutely. Yeah, man. Well, no, no other gospel. That is a, um, Kind of big title. Uh, but that’s the reality of what this chunk of, of Galatians is about for chapter one verses one through 10 and, um, I don’t know.
Do you have any thoughts to lead in? Do you want me to dive in? What do you think?
Josh: Yeah, let me, um, let me start with some verses. So hopefully you’ve paused this. You’ve got spent some time with Jesus yourself. You’re, you’ve listened to what Jesus to tell you, uh, through relationship as you read this thing, but, um, we’ll highlight some verses here.
So this is Galatians chapter one, verse six. Uh, the other versus a great tool, but I’m going to start with six. Uh, it says I’m astonished is the NIV, by the way, I am astonished that you so quickly, uh, deserted the one who called you to live in the grace of. Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all.
Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ, but even if we, or angels from heaven should preach a gospel, other than the one I preach to you, let them come, come under God’s curse. And I think so often we can. It is intense to some extent, but like important.
Right? And that’s the point of, I think what Paul’s trying to get across as no, this matters like the gospel itself matters. And the second, the gospel itself starts to morph and change. It’s no longer the gospel. Um, and that’s what he’s getting to, and we’ve talked a lot about this, right? Like, you know, the idea that we can.
We’re okay with faith in Christ, being enough for our salvation, you know, recognizing that Jesus was the son of God that he lived a perfect life, data centers, death and rose, again, four days or four days later, three days later, I’m like, this is, this is the gospel. Um, and believing and having faith in that is enough for you to find forgiveness and restore relationship with God.
Um, and we’re good with that for salvation. But the second one find salvation somewhere along the way that no longer becomes enough. Um, and we start adding to it and we added to it in a lot of different ways. We added to it by workspace. Faith of God doesn’t love me enough unless I do a lot for him. Um, or, you know, good Christians, maybe it’s an image thing of this book.
Good Christians look like. I don’t want to be seen as a good Christian. So I do all these things, but there’s no relationship like what Jesus actually went to the cross to die for your relationship. Um, with him, um, excuse me. I just burped him about to burp again, and I apologize to all those listening. Um, sorry for the bird.
Bonzo was super tasty today for lunch, um, is actually left over from yesterday, but that doesn’t matter to the story. Um, Or it’s or it’s, you know, we’re seeing this more and more in Christianity that, um, we start to practice more and more Jewish customs and more and more, um, laws under the old covenant that God gave the Jews.
But doesn’t give up, don’t give us as followers of Jesus. Um, we start to practice those festivals and practice those, those different things. Um, because we feel like the faith wasn’t enough faith in Christ. Wasn’t enough that with that too, to have to do more, um, It’s getting deeper and deeper into theology and theology is great.
Theology is fun to talk about, discuss, even argue about. Um, but it isn’t the most important thing in the entire world. Now there’s. Uh, central to our faith, right? Who Jesus is, who God is, who, who the holy spirit is, what the recorded word of God is, um, how you find salvation. Like those are, those are essential to our faith, but there’s a lot of other things that aren’t essential, like predestination versus Arminianism Calvinism for some radios.
It doesn’t really matter. No, I’m called to live out the great commission, no matter how God does it on the other side, um, whether we get into pre-post or. Mid trip. I was forgetting the word, right? Doesn’t matter. Not essential theology. Um, some may think it is. It’s not a, it doesn’t matter when Jesus comes back and she’s even says it doesn’t matter when he comes, when he’s coming back and only the father knows that data anyways, so don’t worry about it.
Yeah. Um, so there’s that piece of like, we start to add all these things on the gospel that we have to believe, or we have to do, and that the gospel just stops being enough, or you get deep into prophecy, right? Like you have a prophetic word over people and if you don’t have that, then, then you’re not really a Christian.
Um, yeah, different gospels, sorry. Um, and it matters so much and it mattered so much to Paul here that, yeah, that’s the words he wrote, right? Like if you preach anything other than this, let them be under God’s curse because this matters at the utmost. And I think we often miss that. Um, and we start to add to it and I think it’s hard to, to identify things in our life that are, that are other gospel.
That we’re no longer living, um, the gospel of Christ that we’ve now attached things to it, and it’s no longer the gospel of Christ. Um, and I’d be curious to have that conversation, but what are your thoughts before we get to that?
Andrew: Yeah, I guess my thoughts is that while this was written a long time ago by Paul to the church of glacier, um, The issue has not changed much, uh, from my perspective.
Yeah. I mean, I’m just
Josh: dealing with the same things over and over again.
Andrew: Yeah. And maybe we don’t, I don’t think we learn nearly as much as we think we learned, you know, there’s a reason. And, uh, what is it? Limitations where it’s like, he concludes Solomon concludes, like there’s nothing new under the sun. Um, Yeah, I kind of agree.
Internet might look new, but you know, there’s always been ways to communicate, um, all kinds of things. So all that to say, man, I think when we start thinking about the gospel and drifting from what the good news is, the gospel, the good news, um, As soon as we start to drift things, get out of whack pretty quickly.
I’m like, eh, man, even not that long ago, when, when the kind of Protestant church splint split from the Catholic church, um, it was over the sale of indulge indulgences where basically Martin Luther and crew were like, Catholics you are saying we can buy our way into heaven essentially back in the day.
And that was a major schism in the church because he’s like, no, like that’s not, that’s not the way that’s not the gospel. That’s not a part of it. And we’re out, you know, there’s a lot more there and Josh, you probably know more than I do, but that’s just a more recent example of a major thing. But a more personal example is like, man, if you think about.
I want to tell somebody about the good news, the gospel of what Jesus did for them and how they can live in, in this Jesus life. And you basically have a list of like 15 things. You got to tell them, and you got to keep adding and adding and making sure you get your theology right by adding this other thing.
Uh, then, then maybe there’s some things that you’re calling gospel that are not. Gospel things. Um, the good news is that God incarnate came in the form of Jesus to live a life. As one of us literally, um, live a sinless life as one of us, and then chose to die and die death. Um, And di Def uh, on the cross, sorry, I just saw your chat, Josh.
Um, so that literally, uh, we can have a real relationship with God, the father, and that Jesus would take our sin on him as the ultimate sacrifice. Um, Now from that point, there’s a lot of ways your life changes as soon as you kind of accept those things to be true and, and try to live this Jesus’ life out.
There’s a lot of guidance, a lot of things about living real Jesus’ life that we’ve talked about and that I’m sure we’ll continue to talk about, but. That’s kind of, kind of the gospel is that that happened, that Jesus came in the flesh to die for you and I so that we can live and that we can live a real life, uh, connected to God, the father, um, and real relationship.
But what are your thoughts, Josh? On what is the gospel like? What is the good news? Because if we say there’s no other gospel, then we better be pretty dang clear on what. The gospel actually is.
Josh: Yeah, it’s always, it’s always shocking to me that when you, I ask this question pretty regularly, like what is the gospel?
Um, and you get a thousand different answers, um, which just shows the. How good the enemy is a confusing the heck out of us because there isn’t a thousand different answers. There’s one answer and the gospel is not Matthew mark, Luke, John. I know we call that the gospel and it is the story of Christ. And in him establishing the church, him establishing what he had.
Did he know his mission here on earth, and then him going into his sacrifice in the record of that. And then of course is victorious return, but, um, that’s not. That’s not all the gospels. So everything that is written in Matthew, mark, Luke, and John, those aren’t that isn’t the gospel itself. Um, and I know that can be confusing.
I get it. Um, And then you get all these different things and like, you know, I’ve even had people say, well, it’s the 10 commandments. And you’re like, no, it’s not sorry. It’s one of those things that like, you want to be compassionate when people, when you ask the question and they give you a wrong answer.
Like I just asked this question to a group of guys, uh, like within the last month and every one of them had a different answer. Only one of them had the correct answer and I applauded him greatly and shamed the rest.
Andrew: By the way he starts in verse. That’s really what it came back to you so quickly or deserted him who called you
The credit. Yeah, that was him. And I was just, I was just following his example. No, the gospel is exactly as you said it. Right. Um, so we can even go back further. Genesis one, one Genesis, uh, To, um, the God’s original plan for his creation, humanity, you and me, um, was to be in relationship with us. So we see that to some extent, uh, in those early accounts of humanity here on earth, um, that God walked with him, you know, side by side, as, as Adam named different animals.
Like there is a deep relationship. Um, they chose to sin and that created a separation between them and God. We see this also because, you know, this is the first time that they’re clothed before that complete vulnerability, complete openness between them and God. And now something new has been entered into the picture, which was sin.
Um, and that same sin is reproduced itself over and over again throughout the ages. And we now deal with that same center ourselves. Um, and I know I’m giving you more detail to the simple, to a simple gospel, but I’ll go back and just give you the simple gospel. Um, but I want to give you the detail, like you just did, um, Jesus to this earth to be the ultimate sacrifice for that a sacrifice had to be spent, and that sacrifice had to be a sacrifice of blood.
And that’s the only thing that caused you that purifies sin. Um, we see that through all the, the old covenant, it was the blood sacrifices of the lamb that purified not only individuals, but also the nation. Yep. So Jesus was that sacrifice well for him to be a perfect sacrifice for him to be able to be the sacrifice for all humanity, sin, sin, that’s already been committed and send that was going to be committed.
Um, he had to be perfect and this is the beautiful thing, but who Jesus was being fully God fully, man lived a perfect life. Um, obeyed all commandments of the old covenant. Um, I’ll be in all, you know, universal commandments beyond even the old covenant, uh, of just who God is and his character, um, became the perfect lamb, the perfect sacrifice.
And then. Took on the sins of humanity, your sins and mine and died in our place was the sacrifice for that sin. And then he conquered death three days later, uh, giving us the ability to conquer death ourselves. Um, and now we live in a new life or what scripture calls that we’re a new creation, the oldest God and the newest come.
Um, we get to live not only our future life with Christ and what we call heaven. Um, but also this life. Now we get to walk with Christ as well, and that is the simple gospel. Um, now simply put. God wants to be in relationship with us and enter the picture, created the separation between us and God, God.
Wasn’t okay with that. So he sent his son Jesus to live a perfect life, to die a sinner’s death, uh, and conquering death three days later. So we can do the same. And now we live as a new creation for this life. And the next that’s the gospel. We know that’s the gospel. Um, one, because that’s the same thing Paul taught over and over again.
It’s the same thing that we see, uh, in Peter’s speech. Um, when in early in acts, as, as the churches began, um, and it’s also in first Corinthians 15, or Jesus or Jesus or Paul himself specifically says, this is the gospel. And then he lays that exact thing out. Um, so this is how we know this is what the gospel is.
Anything additional to that is no longer the gospel. And we’re adding to the essence of who we are. Um, the essence of us living this Jesus life. And, you know, like you said, if you’re at, if you’re having to go through 15 different. Topics of what the gospel is or what are you’re trying to add to. And it shows up in weird different ways.
Right. And it shows up, I think from care, like it’s a place of like, they genuinely want, we’re trying to help them. So it’s like you, we only read this version of the Bible because this is God’s verse from the Bible. You’re like, well, you really think that like, The translations that we have today, they all have their, their, uh, strengths and they’ll have their weaknesses and they’ll have heirs to some extent, um, in terms of, you know, how it’s interpreted and some may see it as an error, so may not.
Uh, but how it’s interpreted, um, from the original Texas is they have it, um, I think God’s much bigger than all that we don’t have to worry about it. Right? Like there’s no concern for those things or, um, you know, you’re going to be a part of this type of church or this denomination. Um, you know, we were talking about the Catholic churches or Catholic church with Martin Luther and the split from promise and movement.
Um, and I would argue there’s probably Catholics, um, that are practicing Catholics today that are followers of Jesus and would be considered his, when it comes to judgment. Oh, absolutely.
Andrew: And let me just say I wasn’t, I wasn’t in any way judging, uh, I, in that saying they’re all bad. They’re all good. I’m just saying that’s, uh, that was something that we can look back on at this moment.
And at least I believe, Hey, that, that clearly wasn’t a gospel thing that was being elevated to. A place that that was, uh, just to belief, uh, maybe a dogmatic belief that wasn’t actually gospel truth, um, that people held in the Catholic church that caused a split now. Yeah. Not saying there’s no Catholics that are real followers of Christ not making that claim at all.
Um, no, I don’t think just to
Josh: clarify. Yeah. Yeah. And, but some would argue if you’re part of the Catholic church, then you can’t be because there’s a lot of workspace to faith inside that I get it. Um, but salvation can still come through the Catholic church. God’s bigger than that. Um, as long as we get back to this specific gospel and anyone teaching the specific gospel, I would argue we can align ourselves to some.
Uh, together and stand in unity because we stand on the gospel. You start adding anything to that, and yeah. Now we have problems. Um, if you think that they got to clean up their act before they come through your church doors. So they got to stop drinking, smoking, and sleeping with girls who do right. Like that piece.
Yeah. Then you’re not preaching the gospel because that’s not the gospel. Jesus, didn’t say, Hey, I need you to get all your life. Right. I need you to stop sitting in all these different ways. And then you can come to me now. He said, no, while you were yet still sinners Christ died for you. I’m like, this is the gospel.
It doesn’t change. Right. So as long as we can align on those things, everything’s great. But I think oftentimes. Somewhere along the way, the gospels stops being the gospel. And we’ve got to add to it because we feel like it’s just not enough. Um, and I think that’s because we’ve never felt the, the fruit of relationship with Christ that he restored, uh, through the sacrifice for our sins.
Right? Like that, that’s what he went to the crosswords to restore the relationship. And I think we often miss that and we’ve never felt the fruit of that. So we feel like we have to add to it just to feel like we’re. Good Christians are that God still loves us somewhere along the way.
Andrew: Yeah. And we might add to it out of good motives or, or we might not, I don’t know, but man, there are a million things you can slip and uh, in the gospel level belief that are just not, you know, it’s pretty well, it’s not.
It’s not simple. Okay. It’s pretty simple to explain what you just did about Jesus coming and living as one of us dying to take our sins on himself as the ultimate sacrifice rising again, conquering death in creating a bridge between us and God for real relationship. That’s not that hard to explain. Um, it’s incredibly profound, uh, but it’s not.
It’s not something that can’t be explained to a five-year-old, you know what I mean? As soon as we start adding a lot of things that you can’t easily explain to a child, um, That might be a good sign that it’s also not gospel. Um, if you start believing that that real faith is only expressed by, by works or by going and serving.
Um, and then you got to back up like here’s 50 ways that I know that’s true. And that that’s basically what Jesus meant by the good news and by the great commission and blah, blah, blah. Like you can. You can figure out how to convince yourself and probably others of that stuff. Um, but it’s, it’s just not the gospel.
It’s it’s right back to what Paul is saying here, where he’s like, you could so quickly deserted him who called you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel. Like. You got mixed up, you know, you, you confused it and maybe you did it for good purposes. Maybe not, uh, or with good purposes in mind, but you’re confused.
Let me correct you. There is no other gospel. Here’s the one, here’s the real one and anybody who preaches differently from that, let the judgment be on them, but don’t believe it don’t stray from the simple, profound life-changing message that Jesus came. As God’s only son, uh, to live as one of us died for us and conquered death for us now go and live a life that reflects that, you know, that’s,
Josh: that’s the gospel.
And I think it’s important to like, And this is the beauty of how Paul writes is Paul just takes it back to the gospel, right? Like anything other than this than what I taught you. Like it, like, that’s not the gospel. I need you to avoid it. Um, it, isn’t a matter of, let me go attack everybody that I hate or I think is wrong.
Um, it’s no, I just need to get you back to the core. I need you to get back to this, cause this is the gospel. And I think we often forget that like, In defense of the gospel. I think we take this position or this stance to attack those that speak differently to that. Um, and I think we get ourselves in a lot of trouble when we implement our, find ourselves in that place.
Um, Because, you know, we go back to even Jesus sending out the disciples and the disciples coming back and saying, well, you know, who are these people that are, are, are prophesied, prophesying, your name and who are these people that are doing miracles in your name? Uh, and Jesus’ response was, Hey, if they’re not against us, they’re for us.
Right. So can we just get back to the gospel and correct people where the gospels, when the gospel has been added to, because that’s important. Um, but, but it’s not a matter of we’re going to attack or, or. Come after those that think differently from us. And we just have to remember that the essential beliefs of the Christian faith, and it’s a smaller number than you would assume, um, compared to, you know, the unessential beliefs where we can disagree and still have unity.
I think it’s important to remember, uh, in the, in the conversation, but I think, I think it’s important now to kind of shift gears to our own lives. And how do we. Allow other things get added to the gospel and maybe an Andrew can add, you can answer from a personal experience of like, what have you done in the past that have kind of strayed you off and you’ve gone down the wrong road, or maybe this isn’t your story that, um, and you’ve had to get your best self back to just, this is the gospel and this is it.
This is all I have to focus on. And this is, this is the whole thing.
Andrew: Well, it may be shocking to our podcast listeners. Um, but I actually love podcasts. Um, and I love, I love learning and I love, uh, I’m a very auditory learner. And when I think back Josh to like, uh, probably. It was like leading into the first Trump election.
Uh, and then like for the next year after that, this guy, um, Jordan Peterson, Dr. Jordan Peterson, out of, uh, out of, um, Canada, like really rose to prominence. And, um, he rose to prominence for a lot of reasons, but, um, a lot of people started listening to him and paying attention to him in a very serious way.
And. He was doing a lot of lectures and a lot of teaching around like responsibility. Um, and that kind of spoke to me. Um, and he was doing a lot of teaching around like accepting responsibility and moving forward under it, you know? And I remember, um, I don’t think he was bad. I don’t think his messages bad, but he did this lecture on like, He launched a kind of lecture on like Genesis and how to understand it, whether you’re a Christian or not.
And I don’t know if he’s a Christian or not honestly, but, um, I remember like I was like, he is okay. Um,
Josh: well, There’s a famous interview with him, like starting to cry. Like, I don’t know why I believe in Jesus, but I do.
Andrew: Wow. That’s cool. That’s really cool. Yeah. But I just, I remember that I, um, was so interested in those ideas.
I was so kind of captivated by, by the thoughts he was sharing and by some other people as well that I realized at one point. I don’t even know how I realized, I guess the holy spirit probably revealed it to me, but I had kind of diminished the role of seeking out what Jesus might be saying to me, where God might be pushing me or speaking to me in my life.
And I was filling that, that kind of gap with like, What knowledge can I learn? What interesting thoughts can occupy my mind from people like Dr. Jordan Peterson, and again, not throwing blame saying they’re bad or that their message was misleading. I just kind of let that be a bigger portion of my life than it should have been where I was following them.
Very intently. Listening to anything that, that I could find that he had done and, and pretty quickly, or maybe over six months of that, like that voice in my life kind of became more important than the voice of the holy spirit and the guidance nudging of, of the Lord in my life. And, uh, I don’t know. I don’t think it led me down this like horrible, horrible path, but it at a minimum, I’d say it distracted me from whatever God might’ve done, uh, through me in that season.
Um, for my perspective, I just kinda was like, Adrift, I guess, and, and seeking knowledge and learning from people in places that weren’t necessarily from the Lord. Uh, so I don’t know, man, that came to mind where I kind of let that, uh, of knowledge get elevated a lot higher than it should have in my life.
And it was for good things through good things, but ultimately it just kind of led me to like, oh, I’m, I’m letting this. Human man have too much a voice in my life. I need to, I need to correct that. And I need to, you know, maybe cut out podcasts for a few months or cut out books by him or whatever for a few months.
And, uh, and refocus. And I think God kind of brought me back, but you know, if I continued down that road too far, then who knows, man, like, If you just start pursuing knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, it’s like then of course relationship gets diminished. And like, if I’m just looking into all the old Greek myths and all the old things that aren’t gospel focused at all, then, uh, Then I’m not focused on living out the gospel in my own life.
Um, that was kinda my story. I’m not trying to judge everybody else seems interested in that stuff. It’s just like, yeah, things can move better, I guess, you know?
Josh: And, and I think what you said was important, like the second you let something else take the place of your relationship with Jesus and the holy spirit speaking through that relationship.
Um, like you’ve got to backtrack, you got to pull back because you don’t know where you’re going to end up from there. And I think that’s an important piece. Um, like the Instagram super like. Yeah. Yeah. It’s similar to Jordan Peterson, right? Like it’s taken off. Um, everybody’s talking about it even inside Christian.
Um, everybody’s talking about it. Like this is the new, you know, secret sauce or tool in the world. And the problem is when we let things like that, I’m not saying it’s horribly bad. I don’t practice it. I don’t get into conversations about it anymore. And I read everything on it when I first found it. So, uh, and the reason for that is.
Similar to your story. Andrew was when I let something else become the source of truth in my life, other than Jesus, in my relationship with Christ, then I got a problem and we’re going to end up in places and put hope in things that we shouldn’t be putting our hope in, um, or taking as authority. Is there a benefit to the Enneagram?
Maybe, I don’t know, don’t really care anymore. I care more about what Jesus wants me to do or what Jesus is calling me to do inside of my relationship with him. It’s the same thing, like going into like, Conquering sins in your life, right? You can have habitual sins that you’ve been dealing with most of your life, you know, um, whatever.
And I don’t mean to diminish since then. It’s destructive. It’s, it’s dirty. It’s going to destroy your life is the longer you walk in it. But if you’re going to try to deal with some, some habitual sin that Jesus isn’t asking you to deal with right now, Like that’s a struggle. Um, now it’s all self edited and what you can do on your own ability and your, the power of crisis in the midst of that.
Now, if you’re in Waukee relationship with Jesus and Jesus says, Hey, you need to deal with these things. I want you to do this, this and this, this week. That’s a whole nother story. That’s what the sanctification process looks like. And yet, as you walk with those things, as you, as you walk, sorry, I should say, walk in relationship with Christ.
Like those things are going to get are going to start to fall off. Then you’re going to start to recognize the works of your faith, uh, in a way that you didn’t realize were going to play out before. Like, this is what the book of James is all about. Now, James gets a bad rap because it kind of presents this workspace.
Faith. If you don’t read the first chapter, but like, this is just the result of walking in faith and in relationship with. Jesus. And we let anything else come into the midst of that, that we don’t see the sanctification process come out. And, and I don’t mean to take shots at just the integrate. I’m like, there’s, there’s thousands of things.
Um, whether it’s Jordan Peterson or the Instagrammer or 50 other things, or maybe it’s a certain preacher that you like to listen to at any point, if something becomes the source of your hope, the source of your knowledge, the source of your life, that isn’t Christ himself, like. We’re on the wrong path.
We’re, we’re believing the gospel other than the gospel of Christ. And we’ve let something else take that place. And we just have to be careful in those places. And they usually come from good places. Right. Like I don’t, I don’t, I don’t want to get political and that’s not my point of making this point, but I’m gonna make it anyways.
Like the gospel is for. Every every nation, the gospels for every race, the gospel for no matter what color skin you are, no matter what economical class you come from in this life, the gospel is for you. And the gospel has the ability to transform your life for salvation, restoring your relationship back to Christ, but also the ability to transform your life from here on out for who God’s called you to be.
So you can experience a full life, a life full of, of hope, a life full of joy that maybe you’re not experiencing now. But, um, with all that said the whole social justice movement, replacing the gospel is a huge problem in the church today. Like it doesn’t work. Um, we can’t bring justice to our world without Christ doing what Christ does in the hearts of people.
Right. That’s the reality of it. Um, when we put our faith and our hope in the government to do those things, you’re going to end up being frustrated and disappointed. That’s just the truth. The gospel is the thing that has the ability to transform and change hearts. It’s the only thing that can do it to the extent that it does it.
Um, so it’s the gospel that we have to be. Presenting to people for an opportunity to find salvation and restoration and relationship with God. Like that’s going to start, well, we’ll go down this road. Like you have the darkest ugliest racists, right. I’m sorry, but the government’s not going to change his views.
Society is not going to change his views or her views for that matter. Right. Like they’re stuck in that way, in that, in that. View of life in their worldview, but the gospel piercing, the heart of that individual has the ability to transform and change everything because Jesus just entered the picture.
And I think that’s the piece that we miss that we start to take all these controls of here’s everything I can do. And you’re like, no, no, no. It’s not about what we can do. It’s about what Jesus can do. And when I walk with Jesus to let that come out of me, to see the change in the world around me, right?
Like. But when I, when I skipped steps along the way, and it’s all about what I can do, what I can do, what I can do, this is an injustice and it is an injustice, but this is an injustice that now I can, you know, I’m going to change all these different things. No, like this is the life of Christ. Now, if Jesus is saying, Hey, you have this so-and-so friend, and I want you to say these three things to them.
Then go do that. Great. Awesome. Or, Hey, there’s this person in your life that I want you to build a relationship with. Awesome. Great. Do it. They don’t even know why you’re building relationship with him. You just know that Jesus said chase after this relationship, and this is what you’re doing, but the second we’re aligning ourselves with what Christ is doing.
The power inside of us is phenomenal. The power inside of us can serve to change the hearts of. Everyone around us and because Jesus is in the midst of it and G’s already moving and you hear this all the time, right. In the church. And I’ll, I’ll stop here with my rant and let you jump in. But, um, like. We always say, like, we want to be where Jesus is already at work.
Right. But yet we don’t do the things or are in deep enough relationship to know, or Jesus already at work. And we miss all of that. Like the relationship with Jesus is 100% key to this life and how you live it. And if we are all living and aligned with Christ and Christ doing a sanctification process inside of us, man.
Yeah. Our worlds would be much better places. Our worlds would be full of, uh, of righteous people. Our worlds will be full of, of joy and hope that no matter the circumstance of life, God is still good and God is still great. And we miss all those things, um, because we try to do it on our own. We start to.
Pull it back and say, the gospel wasn’t enough for me. And I got to do all these things. Um, and we even do it in, in light of what we think is the gospel. I’m going to do all these things for God Christ gospel. And you’re like, well, that’s not Christ gospel. I don’t have to tell you. Yeah. And we missed when you say
Andrew: do all these things.
And as I was referencing earlier, like when you, when you want to lump 20 things into the answer of what is the gospel, um, If I were to say, Hey, the gospel is the story about Jesus, but if you want to know more, you should read Jordan. Peterson’s 12 rules for life. Um, there’s something whacked in the way I’m looking at the gospel.
We should be able to see that, right. Uh, because it’s like, wait, wait, wait, you want me to read this book that was written by a dude, dude, like three years ago, four years ago, to understand the gospel. No, like that’s not right. Uh, similarly, if I say I, Hey, I know you heard the message of Christ. You just accepted Jesus.
If you want to take a real next step, uh, here’s an online in your grim test. Um, that’s the best way to take the next right step it’s like, is it, is that the best way? Is that the right thing? That might be a helpful tool along the way? Might not, I don’t know, but is it the
Josh: gospel? I think, no, I think it’s not
And let me just one sec, I mean, like that’s the type of thing that we, we so quickly can like glom onto the things that are important for us personally, and start to start to think everybody else needs those things in their journey to understand Christ and to have a real relationship with the Lord.
Maybe God uses the Enneagram. In your life for a season, maybe not. Maybe he uses Jordan Peterson as a voice piece of somebody in your life for a season. Maybe not, but it’s not the gospel. It’s not the good news. It’s not the creator. It’s not the author. It’s not the one who brought you into a real relationship with faith, with the Lord or created real path to the Lord.
These are just things that maybe God could use in your story, but they’re not these story. They’re not. God, that’s, that’s what I’m trying to get across is like, it’s a slow creep and it’s natural, I think, but, but
Josh: it’s not good. Yeah. I think that, and I think you hit it right on the head, right? Like Christians, we just don’t do a good job helping new Christians, foster relationship with God.
Like we don’t teach them those skills. Um, like. We teach them all these other tools that have helped us along the way, like you’re talking about. Um, but they’re not the things that help foster a relationship with Jesus. Um, and that should be our key, like as, as. Christians that are walk with Jesus for a long time.
Hopefully you’re a mature Christian and not just mature because of time, but mature because of depth of relationship with Christ, you know, God’s voice in your life, you know, on the things that God has done in your life, you know, how to foster a relationship with Jesus in your life. Like those are the foundations to that.
We know those things are true because we see the fruit of those things, which, you know, we could even look at the, the, um, the S the fruit of the spirits and say, are these more present in your life? If they are, then I would argue, you’re walking with Christ. If they’re not, then I would argue, you’re not walking with Christ.
Non-relationship at least maybe you’re walking theologically or intellectually with Christ, but, um, it, hasn’t gone to a relation at peace. And I think we just miss out on that. And like you were saying, like, it comes from a good place, right? You’re trying to help this person. And these are the things that have helped you, but until they have a firm foundation of this is the gospel, and this is the lens that I look at everything through as this gospel and we are already know first Corinthians 15, this is the gospel of Christ.
Um, And as long as you get to that place, then it’s easier to navigate everything else. Right. Then you can take the, the meat without taking the bones, or however that saying goes, um, because you know, and you filter everything through the gospel and anything that takes you from that, then, you know, yeah.
I’m not going to participate in these things because I need to stay focused on this, the gospel of Christ and that’s all that matters. Um, and then relationship with Christ, you know, is fostered there. But I think we miss those things. We’re not good at teaching others. Um, How to, how to foster those relationship, that relationship with Christ and, you know, we’ve gone through this, right.
We foster a relationship with Jesus by reading his recorded word and what we call the Bible in relationships. So we don’t just read it to read it or listen to it, to listen to it. We do it expecting Jesus to speak through it, um, and speak to our hearts and our souls of what we need to understand in those moments.
Um, even prayer, like, um, yeah, I’m in a coaching network and we had a conversation. I don’t. And it was like two weeks ago. Maybe. I don’t remember now, but we were talking about our relationships with Christ in general. And what do they look like and how do we foster them? And, um, we’re talking about prayer specifically and how our prayer lives have changed or haven’t changed over our walks with Christ.
Um, and we got in this whole conversation about like, if you’re. Conversation with Jesus. What we call prayer is not an intimate conversation. Meaning as a vulnerable, honest, you’re laying all out before God, then like you’re missing out on a massive piece of what Christianity is, what our relationship with Jesus says it should feel intimate.
It should feel like Adam and Eve in the garden where there. But Sandy before God, without any shame, right? Like that’s, that’s the, that’s how it should feel. Let it, let it all out. Like that should be your normal conversation with Christ. Um, like, but too often, our conversation with Christ is I have all these prayer things that I’m, you know, prayer requests that I have that I’m going to run through.
And then, you know, I pray before every meal and it’s quick prayer and I’m not really even thinking about Jesus. Let’s be honest. I’m just saying a blessing out loud. Um, Like, if that’s what it is, then you’re missing out on the intimacy of relationship with Jesus, where all the fruit of this relationship lives.
Right? Like if you’re fasting and because you’re fasting, because this is what good Christians do and you’re telling the world about it, right. I think Jesus had something to say about that being sarcastic. Um, I’m being sarcastic, uh, He did have something to say about that. Uh, you shouldn’t be standing on the street corner, just forming your face.
So everybody knows that you’re fasting in that moment. No, it should be an intimate thing between you and God. Um, and this is hard for me, none of the sense that like, you know, I’m someone that fast on a regular basis. I fast for a long period of time. Um, and. When you do those kinds of things, you end up in weird conversations.
And I remember having conversation with somebody that just kept pushing and pushing, trying to get at the root of why I’m fasting and how long all these details about it. And I’m trying to live as Jesus called me to live and shut up about it. And I’m giving you hints of like, dude, I don’t want to talk about this.
And then I eventually said, yeah, I don’t want to talk about this. And this is why, um, Hm. Because I want the intimacy that comes with this walk with Jesus, and I’m doing this in relationship with Christ. And the second I let the cat out of the bag, it’s pointless at that point. Right? Like now I’m just getting your praise for doing something that is quote unquote godly.
That’s not the point. Yeah. Right. Going into worship, like, are you worshiping in relationship with Christ an overflow of what God’s doing in you? And you’re just letting it out and just being gracious or being grateful to God for why he was so gracious to you, right. That that should be our worship. Or are you just going into a room and singing a cool song that you really like?
And it gives you all the tinglies inside. That’s the point? I’m sorry, like the points, not the tinglies inside. You can listen to almost any kind of music. And if it’s a powerful music, you’re going to get tingles inside. The relationship with Jesus is the piece that we often miss. Right. Right. That’s why we have to be striving for so matter, no matter what we’re doing.
Um, if we’re doing these things in relationship with Jesus, like that’s where we’re going to start to see the fruit of Jesus changing our hearts and our minds. But when we get away from that and any other thing other than the gospel of Christ, um, I think we end up in these places and like you said, Andrew, like there.
There are places trying to be helpful. Like it’s not, I don’t think people are out there being malicious in any way. And we’re like, well, we’re just going to convince all these Christians that they’re idiots, we’re going to do all these things. No, we’re up to it. I don’t think that they’re genuinely trying to be helpful.
Um, and I would say even in, you know, we see the argument that acts between, you know, the. The Jewish Christians and those, the Gentile Christians. Um, and it’s no like what Matt heard, like it was a place of care. Like the Jewish Christian was like, no, this is the things that we do to show God that we’re his, and we love him.
And they just didn’t fully understand what this new covenant meant and how it fulfilled the old covenant. Um, yep. And, you know, it’s, it was out of a place of care. It wasn’t out of harm. Um, but when we take those positions on anything other than the gospel, we end up in pretty scary places. And I think this is why there’s no hope in Christians today.
Like we’ve, we’ve taken on this workspace, faith, that it’s all about what I can do for God, rather than being in relationship with God. And that’s, that’s a rough place to live. And I have compassion on those people. It’s one of the reasons we started, at least for me, that we started this podcast is I want to help people find hope again.
Um, absolutely think, you know, this is a big key. Big piece of it. Um, you know, I’m writing, sorry. You have thoughts before I go on my next thing. No, I just,
Andrew: no, no, it’s all good. And I’m going to have to bounce pretty soon here. Um, but as you were saying that man, like just, uh, I always am trying to think of how can we make this super usable, like useful, like interesting to listen to for people, but also just like actionable, you know?
And I think. It’s a hard thing, a little bit of a hard thing. It can be to step back and realize like, oh, I’m letting this podcast or this book or this tool or this preacher or this worship or this, whatever, I’m letting it become part of my gospel. I’m letting it become part of I’m letting it become a substitution for the real good news in my life.
Like that’s usually a slow creep. I don’t think it’s a. I don’t think it’s a switch that just flips and you’re like, oh, I forget the gospel. And I’m going to say all these things, are it? You know? Um, but I guess as simple tests or simple thing is just like, man, if you’re listening to this, um, and you’re thinking, Hey, is there something in my life that I’m considering to be gospel?
The good news. Uh, that isn’t like, just, just ask yourself that question and do so courageously to say, is there something that creep in my life to the point?
Josh: And I think my practical piece, uh, kind of same along the same lines. I, I would just add another question of, is there anything that you feel like you have to do?
So God is pleased with you that isn’t relationship with Jesus. And I think that may help you start to identify some things in your life where you’ve allowed other things to be attached to the gospel of Christ, which now is no longer the gospel Christ, because things got attached to it. Like, um, if you feel like I have to go to church every week, um, because, and I’ll explain that example, but, uh, I have to go to church every week or God’s not going to love me then.
Then you’ve missed the point, right? Like its relationship with Jesus. I’m now going to go to churches and important piece of relationship with Jesus, but you were doing it for any other reason than that, right? Like that’s an issue. Um, like it starts to push up, pull, pull all those things off of you. Um, and then you start to live in this relationship with Christ because you’ve identified all the things you’ve added and removed all those things.
You’re going to be blown away by how light. Jesus burden really feels in your life. Um, and you may be even doing more for God in relationship with Jesus than you ever thought you would. But now it’s just becoming more natural than you realized. Um, because you’re just doing it relationship with Jesus and it’s just naturally flowing out of you.
So you’re going to church every week because you want to see God’s people and you want to hang out with them and say hi to them and hug them around the neck. Right? Like there’s that piece of it that, that starts to come out of you that I think we often miss. So what in your life do you feel like you have to do?
Um, To for God to be pleased with you. Um, I think is a good question to ask. And then Andrew’s question was, um, what have you added in your life to the gospel that that maybe is, um, isn’t the gospel and you feel like it’s an important piece, but it’s not. Um, and then start living in that freedom. Like, and we’ll get more and more to this in Galatians.
Um, as we continue through the year, the rest of the book, but, um, like it’s this freedom that we really have and oftentimes Christianity doesn’t feel like freedom. Um, and it really should because that’s what Jesus went to the cross for was for your freedom in relationship with him. And you’re going to be a blown away as you journey with us through this of how much freedom you can really have in Christ.
But Andrew. To let you get going to your next meeting. I love you, my friend, always good to catch up with you and those listening. We love you. We’re praying for you. Thanks for listening. Love
Andrew: you guys. Good to talk to you, man. Bye.
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