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Our Family Origin Story
Episode No. 83

Conversation Four. Our family origin story shapes how to view life and how we interact with others and that story is our worldview until an experience challenges those beliefs. We talk through our family stories this week.

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Resource – True Face: Beyond the Mask.
Verse – 1 John 3:1.


Josh – Hello hello hello hello we’re just 2 normal dudes trying to live this jesus life. My name’s Josh.

Andrew – Hey my name’s Andrew and we are this jesus life podcast Josh I’m still fired up about the music man every time it gets going I’m like we’re doing this here. We go like I’ve ah had a couple cups of coffee this morning.

Josh – Andrew.

Josh – Um, I’m still working on my first one

Andrew – But that that got my fired up in a oh man. Well, that’s that’s the time change. It’s 2 hours earlier for you. You know I’m like wide eyed and bushytailed at this point. Um, but yeah man that music always gets me pumped. How’s you? How’s your week been.

Josh – It’s been all right. It’s been a right starting to get cold again Unfortunately ah lots of cool things happening in different projects I’m working on so that’s fun. Um work is work as you know.

Andrew – Lame. Sweet sweet.

Josh – We all got jobs and we gotta do them and sometimes they’re a lot of fun and sometimes they’re work and right now it’s work.

Andrew – That’s funny. It was it was ° here yesterday and today is gonna be 82 and then it’s gonna cool off more in the next like four or 5 days but still in the like 50 s and sixty s but dude I got to tell you.

Josh – Whoa.

Andrew – I am stoked because ah, we’re supposed to get a thunderstorm tonight and after some good rain we should have morell mushrooms popping up everywhere bro which I know I don’t know if you’ve ever looked for morelles or you like mushrooms or you care about any of that.

Josh – Nope.

Andrew – But dude norells are delicious and also it’s just like the official start of spring you know, even though we’ve had a couple good outside weather days like as soon as they start popping up for me. That’s like ah spring is officially here things are growing Like. We’re doing this thing So I’m pretty excited to try to find some more elses and and I got a couple spots where I know they grow that fill me with hope you know that we could find quite a few. So yeah, man stoked for morells.

Josh – That’s funny. Do they grow wildly is that the thing are they a part of your garden.

Andrew – They do no they grow wild. Ah so they’re like they’re like a delicacy mushroom. They’re like if you buy Morells by the pound like dried. You’d probably spend like a couple hundred bucks a pound on them. Um, they’re they’re really good. Yeah.

Josh – Just whoa.

Andrew – But but that’d be dried if you buy them wet. It’s probably like $20 a pound or 30 um, which is still substantial but you know mushrooms dry a lot when they dry anyway, they um, they just have this like really awesome oaky flavor. They’re kind of like. You know bourbon minus the alcohol oakiness. Um, and just like a really good texture like I love like I did them last year I only found like 12 or 15 total and my daughter actually found like 3 or 4 of those. Um. But because little kids have low center of gravity and can like look for mushrooms better than adult skin which is awesome. But anyway dude they’re like I did them did some on pizza. Maybe.

Josh – Are you coming with excuses why your daughter almost beats you in finding mushrooms. That’s what I’m hearing. Yeah but it sounds like you’re justifying her goodness of why she’s better than you.

Andrew – Maybe but she’s good on it. Dude like I found one and showed her and then she found like 2 or 3 Yeah listen it does sound that way but it is a known thing that kids are super good at.

Josh – Yeah, the lower to the ground.

Andrew – Spoting them because they’re low. So like as an adult you got to like squat down a bunch and like look around under Bushes and all this stuff. Kids are just already down. You know so they’re like oh there we go. It’s right under my feet but ah I know man.

Josh – Give the teacher a dog How to find him.

Andrew – Get old clementine like truffle hounding over there for some rells that’d be sweet. It’d be really sweet. She’s well she’s doing great. She is um I think she’s nine nine in or she’ll be 9 in August um, which is crazy. But.

Josh – Um, I mean how old is clementine these days.

Josh – Main one look.

Andrew – She’s still you know she acts a little bit older but she still has a lot of like puppy not puppy energy but she has good energy. You know she’s she’s doing great for sure. Yeah man.

Josh – 1 I was just telling a story about fin a couple of weeks ago Finn was Andrew’s dog before him that was famous. He was on that dog abuse video where like the dog comes out of the the the um um.

Andrew – Sarah Mcglaughlin he wasn’t actually on it but he might have been I don’t know in the arms of an angel. Ah.

Josh – The what do you call it a doghouse and he’s like all sad. Yeah it was like that’s been. He’s famous but Finn chewed up my doorframe in a matter of 5 minutes when I watched him once that was after he already got into his food at Andrew Janic’s house and threw it everywhere.

Andrew – Um, ah man right? Ah poor fan man. Yeah.

Josh – Um, which I wasn’t gonna pick up but I did give them the heads up that there was dog food all over their house. Ah, and then I had to go somewhere and didn’t want him like get into stuff So I put him in the bathroom and he did not like that so he tried to chew himself out and then I just painted over it in you know.

Andrew – Ah, and he was like he was like the kindest dog ever like he was full of love but man he was very anxious and it was probably because and let me be clear.

Josh – No one said anything. Just anxious.

Andrew – If he was actually the dog of the Sarah Mcglachlan dog video that everybody knows um he that was well before he was our dog. We got him from the shelter and they said we treated him with a lot of love. But.

Josh – Ah.

Andrew – We we got him from the shelter and they’re like yeah he’s he’s about eight years old and we’re like oh cool like we know he’s an older dog but like we’ll get you know like 15 years of life or whatever out of him. Dude. Later we found out from a vt they’re like no, he’s more like 12 or 14 like this is an old dog. This is not ah, not a mid-aged dog and man he loved hiking. He loved being outside but towards the end of his life anytime we got him.

Josh – Paint.

Andrew – In the car or really anytime he was excited. He lost all control of his ah his sphincter and would just just poop and like yeah it was horrible. It was horrible. So we’d just be driving from our house to Palmer park which you know was like.

Josh – Ah, oh is sphincter that’s worse first.

Andrew – 5 minutes um max and in that 5 minutes he would poop like 50% of the time just in the trunk. You know like I’m just gonna lay a lay a nasty poop in the trunk for you till yeah man porphin.

Josh – Oh gross.

Andrew – It was that was hard to put him down man. He was a great dog even though he was hyper anxious and had some old man health problems.

Josh – I’ve met.

Josh – Shoot my dog is I don’t know how old he is. He’s like 6 or 7 now depending on if you believe the humane society cause every dog you get. There’s 2 but he already leaks so I can only imagine what he’s gonna do at 12

Andrew – Um, yeah, right? Yeah right? Oh off, poor guy.

Josh – Like right now I don’t know what he’s doing. He’s eating himself out Jack what are you eating his eyes are closed I think he’s sleeping I’m not sure but his mouth is between his legs scratching and something not that not that thing

Andrew – Ah, so maybe oh count. Maybe he’s just having a ah ah dream. Ah, yeah, he’s maybe in his dream. He’s just eating like a.

Josh – Don’t get me wrong. He likes to lick that thing constantly, but he’s not looking at right now Jack what are you doing I don’t know if he’s pretending he’s sleeping or he’s just messing with me Jack are you awake.

Andrew – Steak or burer. Oh man, hey bro here’s a question for you. I know it’s cold. Weather. They’re still but not for long. Um, when you grill out and it’s like summer day ah like what is your go to. Summer grilling food. Are you all about burgers. Are you all about steak. Do you go the poultry route and go with some chicken or do you like throw ham on the grill or do something crazy like what are you about man I don’t know some people do that. Yeah, some people do that, especially those who like smoke things with smokers. You know.

Josh – Hey um, what? what.

Andrew – All about smoke tam. What do you do? What are you about.

Josh – Wow ah hamburgers 100% if someone else is buying steaks a hundred percent I can cook a mean steak my mug.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, and broughtts brots is my second. Yep yep, fair.

Josh – Got me like a $400 cooking class. At one point I think she’s trying to help me find a wife? Um, but there’s a bunch of old people because that’s all that goes to $400 cooking classes. Um, but I learned how to grill a steak properly so you get the perfect grill marks and you know perfectly medium well on the inside. So I can cook a steak but I’m not going to buy 1

Andrew – Oh I forgot that right right right? Nice That’s what’s up.

Josh – That’s for sure, especially for a group of people because like I feel like barbecuing is a group activity like if you you could I guess barbecue on your own I don’t know I would assume most people don’t the only barbecue when there’s like people around and buying a steak for a ton of people just sounds expensive to me and I thought I.

Andrew – Yeah, yes.

Andrew – It is it is that’s fair, we so we have more well we have less steak on hand now than we did four months ago. But if you remember so it’s April now back in October we bought.

Josh – Like you but I don’t like you that much.

Andrew – Um, so between Janna and I her parents and her brother and family. We bought a half a cow from a like local farmer um called frontier pastures if you’re in Pennsylvania it’s literally the best beef I’ve ever had. It’s ridiculous. Um. So we got a half cow and then we divided that up. So really, we kept a sixth of a cow and they did as well. But that meant like £40 of ground beef like tons of steak tons of um cuts of like you know. Chuck grossed and all kinds of crazy cuts that we don’t even normally get because we’re like you know we just buy what we buy but when you get a whole cow you get portions of everything. So anyway, man um, so we have a pretty good selection right now which is really cool like.

Josh – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – We’re loaded with steak and with beef and all that but we’re like still working like I think we’re on a good pace so that come this October will be essentially all the way out of all of it and be able to do a restock but it has been solid but all that would said it also would be like. You know like I got a London broil as part of that which is a huge piece of steak and we’re going to have to have some people over to help eat that because it’s way too big, but um, yeah, trying not to be stingy but I totally feel you like you know having a bunch of people over and doing steaks for everybody. Bratw worststs are my number they’re right there with hamburgers for me doing beer broths. Um I boil them in beer and then I let the beer keep going and put in like chop up like a whole onion or 2 maybe some peppers and throw it in there and just let it cook down.

Josh – You boil them first. Plus you do.

Andrew – To like beer onions and peppers. You know, add some butter as well. Obviously um, and yeah man I’m all about a good brut worst that’s for sure.

Josh – That sounds good. We went to a steakhouse you ever go to the steakhouse at flying Ranch when you lived here, it’s out off of whatever that Highway is yeah.

Andrew – No I never did I never did and it didn’t it burn down for didn’t that burn down and then get rebuilt obviously okay.

Josh – I don’t think so I don’t think go to came down I don’t think the fire the black forest fires came down that far. This is like right just north of vennerquest. Not that far just south of Northgate. Um, and it was okay like I’ve heard a lot of good things about it like a lot of people. It’s.

Andrew – Right? right.

Andrew – A.

Josh – But it’s like ah they’re trying to be Mortons or like Capital grill but the quality just not as good like I a at a wagoo stake that was just like it’s not worth what I’m paying for this thing and no thanks.

Andrew – Right? That’s a hard thing about. Oh yeah, right? right? Yeah man fair enough. Well I’m excited Grill seasons here. We did burgers last night and it was like awesome. And just because can’t be burgers you know and Janna and we did some pieroies that Jana had made from scratch that were also awesome. So anyway, man I love girl season I’m sttoveed to to back.

Josh – Did you ever you ever do the the stuff burgers where you put like some pepper Jack cheese or something inside of it and seal it off So it’s all melty on the inside.

Andrew – Who no I haven’t got that methodical like last night I did do chunks of colby jack small like you know, cutting up into like little tiny cubes and putting them right in the burger. So. In a way I stuffed it but it was just like mixed into all the burger stuff rather than like in the middle. Um, yeah.

Josh – Are you guys I’m gonna guess this is true but are you guys blocks of cheese kind of people or already sliced or tredded types of people saw that one coming.

Andrew – All about the blocks bro all about the blocks. Um, yeah, 100% you know like yeah yeah I mean you know our microwave stances like we’re Also we’re getting blocks of cheese over here because it’s like cheese is ah such a staple. And with little kids you’re constantly trying to be like all right? How do I get you fat and protein that will actually stick with you instead of just crackers you know or just bread or whatever so cheese is a go to in Caseidy is are a total go to as well. So yeah, man. All about those cheese blocks. But yes, yeah, yeah, you want to tee this up man I and I don’t yeah yeah, you tee it Up. Let’s do this thing.

Josh – Gotta allow me some cheese blocks cheese in general just amazing, but we should probably dive into the conversation for the sake of time. Um, because who knows how long this one’s going to go? Yeah, so we’re in the middle of the series. We’re calling conversations. It’s 10 conversations. It’s coming from I need to turn this page off sorry I’m inside of a Google doc right now and somebody’s typing in it. Um, that’s going to distract me constantly, um, change the Google doc um was it goingnna. Oh we’re in the middle of those conversations.

Andrew – Um, you gotta shut that down.

Josh – Ah, there’s 10 conversations questions comes from a company called trueface we’ll link in our show notes at this Jesus just jesus life podcast dot com and you can purchase it there but essentially it’s 10 conversations to become fully known by someone and know someone else fully.

Andrew – Um.

Josh – Um, and it’s not like fully fully. No, let’s talk about deep dark secrets. But it’s like how do you foster relationship with another individual in such a way that they can know the full you and you can know the full them. Um and kind of break down some of those those barriers So Some of these conversations feel a lot more vulnerable depending on you know what insecurities they hit. Um, some of them feel simple and easy. This one’s this one’s difficult in the sense that like it involves our families. We’re talking about. You know our family of Origin. So That’s that’s difficult in the sense of like how do you? Yeah we we love our parents. We Love our Families. We Love our siblings and we want to honor them. We’re doing this in a public form. Um, so we’re going to be as honest and possible as we possibly can in a way that still honors our our families if you were doing these conversations with a friend or or with somebody we would we would say go deep but because these these stories of of.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Origin family origins come um, play play a lot of um play a lot of different roles. Um, and how we view and how our worldview is shaped how we interact with with others because this is what we think is normal until something says otherwise. But.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Yeah that’s kind of it so we’ve already done 3 of these conversations. We talked about just kind of the basics of our lives our childhoods briefly. We. We talked about our interactions with god over the last couple of weeks. Um, and now we’re into conversation number 4 with our first question Angie got anything to add before we dive in.

Andrew – no just that um yeah no I don’t man I mean I think you said it but like the way the the way we’re raised like when we’re young that kind of shapes our worldview and makes us think like yeah, that’s how the world is. That’s how everybody is and. That’s what everybody’s experience. Is you know you had 2 parents. You think everybody does if you had 1 parent in the house and you think everybody does you know and and what you learn about from your parents about things like love and all the things are you? you naturally apply to god so. Ah, shapes you a lot and yeah man I’m excited to dive in um, for sure.

Josh – Cool. Well let’s ah, let’s dive in with the first question here. How would your parents describe how they felt about you as a child.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Hi have great parents and I think they would describe how they felt about me as like they loved me. Um I don’t know I so. Context of my family I have a brother who is 8 years older than me and a sister who’s 6 years older older than me and I was I was a a surprise to the family. Um I think my parents were planning on having 2 kids got surprised by having a third six years later um but all that said like I was the youngest um and and super well loved by my by my siblings and parents for sure and I don’t know like I think I don’t know how they would describe me on the day I was born. They might have been like oh man, we’re. Over our head. We didn’t expect a third but ah, but in my experience growing up I think like stoked I was a part of the family you know like my my sister got to be ah, got to fill her like mom role with me being 6 years younger you know um and she was always looking out for me watching over me sometimes smothered me but overall lovingly you know, yeah and then my my older brother was like stoked to have a young brother but then also would get annoyed with me if I was like.

Josh – Yeah, that of drive me knots.

Andrew – Trying to do something that he with his friends that he’s like no like you’re the little kid you know so I don’t know Overall though I’d say they they loved me and we’re were stoked I was a part of the family. What about you man.

Josh – Yeah, this one um this one I saw this question last week so I’ve been thinking about it all week like how would my parents describe how they felt about me like of course my parents love me like that’s not that’s not up for debate.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, I know that to be true I’ve known that to be true. It’s not like that kind of thing. But I think if there was like yeah I would probably and they would probably tell me this So like if I went and asked him this question I think this is how they would answer it I was a difficult child. Um.

Andrew – Who.

Josh – And difficult not in the sense of like I didn’t have any health issues or that kind of difficult I was difficult because of my personality like I was a I’m a Challenger by nature. Um, like you got to have a why for me. Um I’m not going to take you at your word I don’t care if you have authority or not um.

Andrew – Um, right.

Andrew – Fifth.

Josh – Authority is pointless to me if you’re going to just abuse it like that’s how my mind works not saying my parents abuse theiroridal I don’t think so but um, but yeah I was I was a difficult child probably from an early age I would assume I was a difficult child um like it probably took a lot to parent me and to parent me. Well. Um, you know I had plenty of of run-ins with with parents throughout the years so and I have 4 parents so we never lived with my dad after um, like full time after second first second grade sometime and then so.

Andrew – 15

Josh – Kind of that situation. But you know I have 2 sets of parents and my parents have been married both of them have been married over twenty years now so most of my life. They’ve been together and definitely had run and so difficult. It’s probably the best way to describe my personality probably because I’m ah um, a challenger.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Write.

Josh – Um, and like you know I have the worst probably the worst traits of bullsa like I’m a middle child on directly in the middle I’m nine years younger than my older brother and nine years older than my younger brother. My youngest brother. There’s five five wait how many brothers do I have 5

Andrew – Um, you’ve got a big family bro. Ah yeah, right.

Josh – 5 brothers 5 brothers and 2 sisters I was trying to figure out like if you included me would be 6 boys and two girls. But it’s a blended family so you know there’s half siblings in there. There’s step siblings in there I have one brother where we share the same parents and you know we grew up together. We’re a year and a half apart um but other than that like so I was raised up until ah, probably like early middle school as a middle child and then you know my siblings are older than me and the one that’s right above me moved to love with this mom. So then. From there on all through high school I was raised as an oldest child so probably have difficult truth and being a challenger being the oldest was fantastic I love every second of being the oldest brother because you were in charge. Um, um.

Andrew – Um, right right.

Josh – But yeah, it was difficult like I’m the child I don’t know if I told this story I told the story somebody recently and might have been on the podcast too. But like I was a child in first grade that stopped the production of you know the Christmas program to correct my my class because they did it wrong like that was the child that got raised. Yeah 100%

Andrew – And. Um, no way. No way. Ah, ah I Hope there is that’d be awesome.

Josh – I Think there may be a video of it I to ask my dad if he has it. But yeah, straight up because they said the line wrong stop the production and I remember being like a pretty full auditorium who knows if that was true but like it was an auditorium nonetheless and yeah, told him they were doing it wrong.

Andrew – Ah, ah oh man, dude.

Josh – My teachers would like give me stupid jobs just to keep me busy like I was the chairholder or dumb things like that like I was I was that kid I was a very difficult job.

Andrew – Ah, dude, this is so funny I oh man I hope you have video of that like I could just imagine the reactions in the room of parents like. Giggling and also mortified like a few parents like that was my kid’s line and they got it wrong and this kid called it out. Ah but it’d be so funny too. Oh man, that’s funny. Let me say 1 thing. So.

Josh – By that I can only imagine to like see my parents in the moment where they’re like oh Margo she’s not ours. Let’s just leave through the back.

Andrew – As as we got to know each other you know years ago the enneogram was like taking Colorado christians by storm. Um because I don’t know probably all christians but especially in Colorado, it felt like ah a thing that was like just a big deal to a lot of people. Not really sure where exactly that came from I mean I know some of the podcasters and things that made it like big. But anyway, um, at Josh you and I kind of bonded when we’re like yeah we’re actually both in Theagram mates and which is classified as the challenger and you know i. Reflected on it a lot and it took me a lot of like time and thought and and focus to really understand that about myself because in my family as the youngest like the next question is was your fame was it safe the environment you grew up in and. I would say always it was safe in in my family. Um for sure but I had such a unique role in that I was 6 years older or 6 years younger than my sister eight years younger than my brother and my parents saw me as the youngest child. Um. You know because I was but I I don’t know I I’ve had a fairly high like emotional intelligence most my life I think and um, ah, really all my life and like I don’t know I took on the role of ah Anya Grim 9 um, so I’d I’d say I have a strong 9 wing. But I’m really an 8 um because the older of god and the more I’ve settled into who I am the less I am excited to be in that peacemaker role. Um, but I grew up in that role as a kid like i. Like there wasn’t violence or or I would say there is much less conflict in in my house than in many like it was a safe environment for sure. But with 3 kids. There’s always lots of arguing and lots of I don’t want to do that or why did. Why did they get that I want the same thing or whatever and I just always found myself in this like peacemaker role especially between my brother and sister because they fought a decent amount just being close in age and for a lot of reasons. So yeah man I grew up in that role. But yeah. The the older I’ve got the more comfortable I became actually in that enneagram 8 role of of challenger and also just like yeah I I very naturally don’t have a respect for authority like no like.

Andrew – You need to have the best idea and I think your idea is not the best half the time I’m not naturally just disrespectful to that I think that was probably like because of sitting in that peace Peacemaker role and like developing that muscle and doing that a lot but older I got man.

Josh – And.

Andrew – Ah, the less I wanted to be in that role and the more I was just like yeah sure I can see both sides but it’s not my job to moderate for you like you guys figure it Out. You know like I don’t I’m not gonna hang out in that role anymore. Um, so I don’t know man that’s. That’s a little bit bit about me but something pretty cool. But I think I’d say we’re both eights but looks a little different. Yeah,, go ahead.

Josh – Interesting I have a similar story with my like yeah I have a similar story in that like I played Peacemaker could my parents divorced early on in my life. So I played peacemaker between my parents like we were the go-beweens I don’t know how much communication that. They ever did directly especially you know middle school high school early 20 s and kind of played that role until essentially my sister and I planned it kind of played that role. We just got sick of it so we decided to stop one day and stop being the go between to share or to you know.

Andrew – Um.

Josh – Soften the blow of what the other is saying we’re just like you know if you have a problem with somebody talk talk to them. We’re out which pissed off and probably hurt my relationship to some extent with my parents on both sides because they probably felt like yeah I was choosing the other side or choosing not to intervene. But.

Andrew – See.

Josh – Like it was the healthiest thing for everybody to to get out of the way you know yep and it’s been great ever since I would wouldn’t change that decision. But yeah, it’s ah it’s a rough place to to sit second question Andrew and then we kind of.

Andrew – Yeah, you were really just backing out of it right? like you didn’t want to be the middleman. Yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Kind of just touch on this. But what was what was your home life a safe place during your formative years I think your formative years are like up to 6 I think seven somewhere around there.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah I would say for sure it was safe. Um, the yeah, definitely safe like I got to I got to grow up you know in a like small is pretty small town Zainsville Ohio like I don’t know how many people live there today but it’s ah it’s a mid to small size town. You know anyway I got to live in this like kind of in a big neighborhood that was kind of like a suburb but not really just like semi rural neighborhood. Um. And like bunch of farms around it and all kinds of cool stuff. So yeah I I felt very safe in the home and then also like had a lot of cool like free reign of like the neighborhood and the area around it once I was. I don’t know probably 5 or 6 that that probably the circle started widen I’m sure of where I could play. But um, yeah, dude always had a safe home and like one thing I still love to do that I ah learned from my parents is just. Invite people in like for meals for hosting for staying like I don’t know I’ve ah always loved being quick to invite people to come join us for dinner or whatever. Um, and my parents really modeled that by being like a safe place for all my friends in the neighborhood. And and usually being really quick to say like yeah have Eric come over for dinner or stay for dinner have Levi walk up the hill and stay for dinner. You know, like always being quick to invite my friends in as well and be a safe place for them. So yeah, I’d say for sure it was. It was definitely safe. Um.

Josh – No.

Andrew – When it comes to conflict. It was much more like I’d say normal kid stuff for for kids that are you know up to 6 like twice my age. My my sister Lauren and Brother Caleb was whereas in that moderator peacemaker role especially when they were going into like. Middle school years which was probably when I was 5 6 7 8 that that range so Yemen. What about you Howard do you answer that question.

Josh – Yeah, my my formative yours probably are my fondness of childhood memories like granted we have you know home videos of all these things so it’s probably more home video memories than actual memories. But like Christmas time of the family doing vacations all that kind of stuff.

Andrew – Um, who.

Josh – Definitely a safe place. You know we we jokingly refer to the 4 siblings as the original 4 technically there was an original two I guess before the you know my brother and I showed up. But yeah, the original 4 before the family kind of imploded and and.

Andrew – Um, to.

Josh – Became one of this today. But yeah, definitely a safe place like and I grew up in a time where like community in the neighborhood was still normal like you knew all of your neighbors like you did barbecues with them on a regular basis. You took care of the you know the older neighbors across the street. All that kind of stuff. So.

Andrew – Right? right.

Andrew – Um, you know? yeah.

Josh – Um, like you knew you know you knew all the kids on the block. We didn’t have a ton of kids on the block but you know there’s a couple of of boys my age and then of course my brother too. But my brother was in the backyard lining all his cars Up. He had this weird habit of. Putting cars in giantormous lines and then I had this bad habit of riding my bike through them. Um, but yeah I thought it was a safe place. Yeah, he did not did not appreciate that. Yeah yeah, my brother was an asshole.

Andrew – Ah, he’s like yeah I did not but Josh was having a blast messing up my car line ah been dude here’s where. And not not necessarily where it will turn a corner. But yeah this this next question is one where if you’re listening. You could tell like man like even that last one was your child was your homesafe in your formative years like that’s a big question, especially if the answer’s no, you know then then it’s really huge, but. As a child did you feel like a disappointment or a blessing to your family. Um, how do you take that question man because that’s that’s a potentially hard one like yeah, how do you feel.

Josh – Yeah I know this one’s hard. Um like as a child so putting myself in that I don’t think I ever thought of those things as a kid like I didn’t think did I disappoint my parents or am I a blessing to my parents like I was just.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – You’re just there like it’s your family So it’s not like it’s up for debate on whether or not you’re in or out you’re like you’re in. So yeah I don’t I don’t think I ever those thoughts never really ran through my mind whether I was disappointing my parents or.

Andrew – Right.

Andrew – Okay.

Josh – Was a blessing my parents and helping him out like it just it just now looking back as an adult that’s probably a different answer and I I probably have to think about it more. But yeah as a kid I don’t think those those things never occurred to me.

Andrew – yeah yeah that ah yeah yeah yeah I don’t think it was in my parents’ vocabulary either growing up like so 2 thoughts.

Josh – They were a thing like I don’t think my parents ever used the terminology of like I’m disappointed in you like I don’t think that was in their vocabulary.

Andrew – Ah, there were a few times in high school where I got where I can clearly remember and I can understand exactly why like I might say this to I got the I’m not mad I’m just disappointed um because of some things that I did where ah I earned that. Ah, yeah I was not acting in the way I was raised I was not acting in a way of like um, honoring Jesus with my decisions at all and it really comes back to what I shared with with you. You know a while back or maybe a few times throughout this podcast. And we’ve done episode 83 by the way that’s a lot so you can go listen to days and days of us do this. But um, yeah man I I definitely was trying to live like live a couple lives 1 being like trying to be impressive to kids at school. Um, through things that had nothing to do with Jesus and another you know trying to trying to look like a kid fully living his life for the lord to those at my church and anyway when you’re trying to fake it on both sides. Ah. You finally get some breakdowns there. So anyway I did some they are had some behavior that that earned that actual disappointment at a few times but that was more late like late high school years I’d say um, but yeah, growing up the other thing like. I felt loved and cared for and my parents were proud of me. Um I I had I compared myself too much to my siblings I don’t know if you’d say the same but like I over compared and maybe it’s because I’m ah the youngest of 3 but like. Man I distinctly remember I stopped playing baseball when I was like 8 maybe um, no no I was about 10 because my brother was 18 or 19 at the time so I was ten or eleven and I decided to stop because my brother’s like this. He’s six four which is hard to believe because nobody else in the family except my mom’s dad was that tall. Everybody else is like my height or smaller which is about 5 10 you know my brother’s huge and like big tall guy and left handed as well. So he was a pitcher. And an awesome baseball player and like I remember like it was really clear. My dad was very supportive of us and loved coming to watch us play sports no matter what sport very supportive of that and like I compared myself to my brother.

Andrew – I don’t know why but he was started. He’s pitching at college he was playing on a college team and and I decided like I’m just going to stop baseball because I’ll never be as good as Caleb you know, um and it’s a bummer because. Like it. It was years and years later where my dad was like yeah I actually kept track of all your little league stats and you were by far the best player on the team. You had the highest batting average like way higher than anybody else. You were an awesome pitcher. You were like you could throw further. All this stuff and I actually it’s okay I don’t think I would have been a professional baseball player but there was this level of comparison that I had with my siblings. Um that I think was generated by me I don’t I don’t really think my parents were. Having lots of comparison talk you know, but that’s 1 thing where I just like I felt a need to compare like how am I doing compared to Caleb who as an adult dude he’s he was 8 years older than me he was way taller than me way different. You know I love my brother. Um, just. Different. You know, different season of life. So for me 8 years younger to compare against Tim I’m like it’s just not reasonable. You know so there was some of that for sure that you know had to work through how do I compare myself to others or not to this day and it. Definitely stemmed from when I was young. Um, and yeah man, that’s 1 thing that this question reminded me of not so much my parents but just how I viewed myself in relation to to my siblings I guess yeah.

Josh – Interesting. Yeah I don’t know my brother and I are competitive because we’re so close in age. But maybe I just want everything Andrew when you listen to this text me and let me know if you felt you were constantly competing with me and losing.

Andrew – Ah.

Josh – Um, but I don’t I don’t remember like comparing I did get baptized because he decided to get baptized and I was like oh hell no, you can do it before me and interjected myself. But yeah, but other than that, Um, yeah I don’t I don’t know if that was a thing.

Andrew – That’s funny. You’re not doing that first. Ah, that’s funny.

Josh – Yeah, that’s a hard. It’s a hard question to like put yourself back in there because there’s definitely a part of my personality that’s disassociating right? like because of my parents divorce and because of things that happen in the midst. All that like there’s definitely to protect yourself. You sort of disassociate with things and there’s definitely a.

Andrew – Um, yeah, bright.

Josh – Piece of that in the in my later years as a child that probably came into play but I don’t think it was ever like I probably disapport my parents plenty of times but I never felt like a disappointment right? like I was never it didn’t affect my identity I was just gonna keep being me probably more so because.

Andrew – This.

Josh – I was just disassociated already that I’m just gonna be me like other people’s opinions aren’t going to to shape who I am um even my parents but at the same time I Love all my parents are proud of me so you know it’s still there. Um, you know.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Somewhere along the way I Love my parent I Love it when my parents are genuinely proud of me and not just saying it right? like I don’t like empty words like writing a card like I’m not no thanks. But if you can give me like practical actual times then then that that matters to me. But yeah I wouldn’t say.

Andrew – Yeah, right right.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – And I know for some that’s a big deal like they think a lot about that question and thought a lot about that question as kids and I know there’s something to it but it’s just not something it ever occurred to me that I was trying to earn their approval or something like that I wasn’t unfortunately.

Andrew – For sure.

Andrew – Yeah man. Yeah yeah, they’re probably like yeah Josh was always a bit of a turd. We love him but he was a bit of a turd. Ah, he always had his own agenda.

Josh – Probably should have been a little bit more but I wasn’t trying to get thumbs up Mom and dad. Yeah, very probably I should ask my siblings like ah yeah, ah, ah, describe me as a child I’m gonna I’ll text them on that Ill today and I’ll ask each of one of my siblings see.

Andrew – Ah I’ll do that too that sounds fascinating man. Yeah yeah.

Josh – See how they would describe me the be entertain. It’d be entertaining to me. But yeah, ah, number 4 ah did you feel like your actions affected your parents’ degree of love for you.

Andrew – Um, thought about this I feel like I’m having lame answers to this man and I’m not trying to um at all just trying to be honest, but like I really didn’t feel like that was the. Case I didn’t feel like my actions affected the level of love or degree of love that and my parents had for me. Um, and like I noticed within myself that like I really value now as a parent like when my 3 year old’s being deterred. Um, which three year old door you know occasionally or often or whatever. Um, like I’ve always really valued and tried to be super intentional to be like like I love you just as much now as when you’re making me laugh like. And I think I got that from my parents and and from my upbringing um is like my love for you is not connected to um, your behavior essentially or like my love is is steady for you. Regardless of whether you’re. Making me laugh or making me shout like or making me want to react in that way because let’s be real three year olds don’t make you shout. They just give you plenty of things to shout about if you choose to do it so I don’t know I think this is why like as I’ve got older I think that. That belief is why I’m I’m able to understand or why I’ve always like resonated strongly with the idea of there’s like a difference between happiness and joy. Um, where like joy is is present all the time and it’s like part of your demeanor. Like you’re the the way you think and that’s why it’s a spiritual gift as opposed to happiness which is like yeah I watched a hilarious movie and laughed for the last hour and a half you know that’s happiness joy is like are you grateful all the time. Yeah, like can you find something to be grateful for even on your worst day. Like that’s that’s more of that. So not trying to like skirt the question just trying to make what I hope is a helpful comparison. Um, but yeah man I never I never felt like my ah my actions really affected the degree of of love that I received back? um.

Josh – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – And with that there were a few times where I definitely disappointed my parents with my behavior. Um, probably because I was trying to you know, be 2 people and I wasn’t fully either 1 um, so anyway man yeah, what about you did you did you feel that like your actions. Affected that degree of love that you experienced.

Josh – Um, no like there’s another question that’s similar to this and usually applied to god but I think in a place here too like um or maybe it’s a statement and you know we’ll end it with true or false question Mark um I know that my parents love me. Um, but when I did certain things they liked me a little less and I think that maybe an easier way to answer the question like I know my parents love me. But there’s definitely things that I did that made them like me a little bit less.

Andrew – Who.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Pink king.

Josh – But my issue was I didn’t care right? like I wasn’t my it never occurred to my mind like what my parents think if I did this like never occurred to me as a child. Um like I wasn’t to to this day. It probably doesn’t even occur to me like I don’t make decisions based off of that.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – I Don’t really make decisions based off of what anyone thinks in those areas like I don’t I don’t want to say I don’t care I do care like I want to hear it but at the same time It doesn’t carry the same weight as you know, weighing the pros and the cons of what the decision would be looking at the.

Andrew – Who.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Lack of a better term data. Um, so there’s there’s that that comes to play like so there’s definitely moments that my parents probably didn’t like me no doubt about it. My brother and I made a video once and we left on the camera because we were dumb middle school kids where we’re like.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Just like doing stupid things with video like making like making dumb commercials. Um like remember form of the commercials like my brother in the shower and he’s like trying to sell us. Um, so whatever shampoo he had but we’re like cursing left it like every other word like is the f word or whatever and my.

Andrew – Ah, oh no.

Josh – My youngest brother was with us so like we’re in middle school so he’s probably like 4 or 5 like he’s young 6 maybe and he’s like crying in the background but he’s crying because we have the video the camera connected to a Tv and he can’t see himself is why he’s upset and angry. But my parents took that as like look at our poor innocent child.

Andrew – Oh no I.

Andrew – So ah.

Josh – Is stuck with you 2 monsters crying because you guys are cursing like crazy and you’re like I don’t think that’s it. Um, yeah, now he’s mad because he’s not on the camera and you know he’s so self-absorbed because he’s the youngest but like there’s those moments where like yeah.

Andrew – Oh no. That was a why oh Ben ah. Right? It he’s 4 yeah.

Josh – It was like this huge thing where and I remember you like sitting at it in the moment where you’re like I don’t Why is this a thing like sure we curse you caught us. We do it all the time when you’re not around. Ah so there’s that piece of it but like you have to look remorse and like.

Andrew – Clean.

Josh – You don’t really know in the moment of like how do you react to this because you don’t want to get in more trouble so you know take it I was going to say take the hit but then didn’t hit us but like you know I mean um, probably wanted to hit us in the moment but they did not hit us. Ah.

Andrew – Oh man, right? right? Ah and dude I Hope they still have that video that sounds like hilarious and like you can.

Josh – Oh that’s a good question. Oh man I’d be funny. But yeah now I wonder I should add I’ll text my younger brother today.

Andrew – Yeah, you got to ask because that would be like they were probably so ticked at you when they you know, interpreted it as what they interpreted it as but be really funny like ah man.

Josh – And ask him. He’s like you know he’s in his mid 20 s now. So it’s been a long time but um I should ask him what if he remembers that that day that we filmed those videos I think we like we filmed outside too but go ahead.

Andrew – Um, right? right? hey before we keep going on. Yeah I was going to say before we keep going on. Ah. Um, questions I know we only have about 10 minutes left before we got to jump out but um, dude so this is like you referenced it a little bit at the beginning but this stuff matters deeply because as people read the bible hear hear things preached about. God like language of family of god as father like that is present all the time in how you hear um hear and understand the concept of a relationship with god and love. You know, like what is love like did you experience love from your father and mother like if not like these concepts are way harder to understand of like why would I want that or or love looks like this when it doesn’t but like John three first John 3 1 says see what great love the father has lavished on us that we should be called children of god and this is what we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him and like as parents there’s just such a burden on you to. As as people who try to follow the lord and and live the way that god wants us to live and walk the way Jesus walked like there’s a burden of responsibility here because like your kids are going to see god the way that that. That they see you and they’re gonna understand love the way that you show them love and like and this is real and it’s not not an ourto own strength. You know it’s not. You should be a ah white knuckling parent who who tries to show love well when you don’t know what it means yourself. But like. I don’t know man a lot of things come back to this and ah and an understanding of who god is and how god treats you and how god thinks about you and views you a lot of it really comes back to like how do you view? Love how do you view your father. How do you view your mother. How do you view your upbringing like what is right? What is wrong? all these things like a lot of it stems from the home and um, consciously or subconsciously I think that’s that’s true for all of us whether you’re a christ follower or not um, but if you had a bad upbringing or you had a.

Andrew – Horrible example of love or of a father. Especially I’d say then man when you hear preachers preach about this stuff or you read the bible and you like you stumble across first John 3 1 and talks about how how amazing it is that we can be called children of god. Like you might not resonate with that in the same way, you know you you might be like I don’t really want to ever be a kid again because I didn’t have power to change my situation and I wish I did so I don’t really want to be called a child of god I don’t I don’t associate well with that. You know so. All that to say I think that’s a big reason. We’re having this conversation in this order is like the way the way you view your family and your experience growing up has a big impact on you especially if you don’t think it has an impact on you. That’s that’s probably the key is ah. Is is understanding what impact it left and what what you need to really work through on like what does it mean when god is a good father. What does it mean that we’re adopted into the family of god what does it mean that we’re children of god like how you view these things I think matter pretty greatly. So.

Josh – Um, and I would add yeah and and I’ll add to this too like it’s It’s not helpful in conversations like this to play the blame game like you know as the child your parents did their best.

Andrew – Ah, get off my soapbox I know we have a um, ah couple questions more. But yeah man, go ahead.

Josh – Um, um, was there things that you know your your parents probably would want to do differently and how they raised you? Yeah absolutely um, that’s true of all of us. Um, but at the same time like blaming them or becoming a victim like it’s only going to hold you back. You, you’ve got to move on from those things identifying because it’s important. Um, but don’t identify him to blame or to become a victim but identify him see have a a starting place to build from and you know as parents, you know if you’re if you have grown children now and you’re listening to the podcast like don’t play the blame game in your in your own parenting like don’t. Don’t say that you’re a horrible parent. Don’t like you did your best in that season like we we couldn’t expect anything better than that from you Sure is there. Decisions. You wish you? you made differently most likely I would assume but like you can’t change the past.. It’s already happened. It is what it is you only move on from the past.

Andrew – Right.

Josh – Um, so a lot of these conversations lead to conversations you even heard it and as Andrew and I answered these questions like it’s leading to conversations that we’re going to ask family members parents siblings about now we’re probably doing it jokingly or in inquisitively. But like.

Andrew – Right? right.

Josh – If it’s hard things that you’ve answered going through these questions. It may be it may be deeper more difficult conversations that you want to have with with your parents. Don’t do it in a way that is going to pass blame to them.

Andrew – Right? right.

Josh – Um, make sure they know that it’s a safe place that you love them that um, you’re just trying to understand better that it doesn’t have any bearing on their identity or who they are like that’s not helpful for anybody and this is true of everything in life as you look to the past like you’re not a victim I don’t care what’s happened to you.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – And don’t care if the most horrific things have happened to you don’t play victim Victim Only holds you in that in that place. Um, until you figure out how to overcome it like if you can’t figure out how to deal with those stuff yourself, You can’t figure out how to deal with the close friends to walk you through it then then find a counselor that’ll help you walk through it. But.

Andrew – 2

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah, of.

Josh – Playing victim in this life is one of the most detrimental and destructive things that is that could be to your your growth as a human being um, let alone is is a follower of Jesus like we’re not we’re not victims don’t play those cards. Don’t play the blame game. It’s not helpful. It’s already in the past.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – You can’t change the past but you can’t change your future. So don’t hold on to the past. But yeah, so next question and the final question. What did you not receive or hear from your father. This is re related to what Andrew was just talking about um because it affects your view of god.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, but what did you not receive or hear from your father that you wish he would have given you or told you.

Andrew – Man um, this is probably the hardest question because I should have thought more about it and and had an answer ready. Um, but I I didn’t so I’m sorry about that. Um hi. I don’t know man my my dad always had a lot going on working full time staying busy. Um he he always made a big point to to get to I mean pretty much every game I had as soccer player track. All of that. Um. I think the one thing I would have enjoyed is is a little more 1 on 1 time. Um I will say he like on the said to me side. My dad was always really intentional to not like not over the top and not in moments where. Where it didn’t feel authentic but to let me know he was proud of me and that he did love me. Um, so I felt very affirmed in that I think I could have I would have enjoyed more extra time you know with him but but I also know like it’s really hard to to give time and. Like I look back at my childhood and I do feel like he gave a whole lot of time intentionally. So so for me this isn’t like a huge gap of like man there was something missing in in how he raised like I think I could have just absorbed more 1 on 1 time if i. If I could change anything. So yeah, man, that’s that’s what comes to mind first for me. What about you.

Josh – That’s good. Yeah I think for me um, like for me I don’t know if there’s anything my issue um is my dad wasn’t wasn’t present majority of my life. Like you know we moved to South Dakota then we moved to Phoenix like we didn’t get to see each other on a day and a day basis like we saw each other a lot. Don’t get me wrong for living that far apart. But at the same time like it’s not the same when dad’s in the home and you see him every day and you get to interact with him every day but like the time that we did have with my dad you know, super intentional.

Andrew – Right? Yeah yeah.

Josh – Um, you know my dad deeply loved me like some of my fondest memories of my dad are like my dad used to love taking naps on the couch that’s where remember my dad being all the time gradually like you know he’s raising kids and and also you know work nights kind of thing. Yeah, ah ah.

Andrew – So right right.

Josh – Ah, janitorial business. So you know he’s cleaning buildings you know, late into the evening so he was taking naps midafternoon but I’d love to like get up and like lay right next to him like that was some of my fondest memories as a kid and just sleep with him So there’s things like that like we used to play wiffle ball home and derby.

Andrew – Yeah, cool. Yeah yeah.

Josh – You know all the all the different sports things out front. Um, you know constantly up until Shoot. We’re in high school still doing that stuff and we go visit for for periods of time like um so like my dad you know and I know my dad’s proud I mean there’s there’s parts of my life that we don’t. We don’t connect on because he just doesn’t understand them like the fact that I’m in Ministry and you know it spent so much so much time as ah as a pastor like I don’t think he fully grasps or understands that and probably speaks to even some of his wounds from the church and those kinds of things So there’s there’s that piece too that.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – I wish was different but that’s just me educating and having those conversations and and that kind of stuff and digging into it. My siblings are better at that than I am in terms of you know, reaching out to my dad and fostering a relationship. If my dad’s listening I don’t know if he actually is on the podcast I should ask him. We don’t talk a ton even today um, not because we’re just we’re both busy and like my brother’s probably the best at it because well when he’s in guitar so he’s probably lonely. He’s calling all the family but he has like a list and he works through that list kind of thing.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah, right right.

Josh – But like now they don’t have a commute which is like usually when I did all that calling you know you kind of forget about that stuff and then you have like yeah you have to be intentional about it and I’m just I suck at that. It’s the area I need to get better. But yeah that my my biggest thing with where I wish I heard.

Andrew – Right? right? You got to make a time in a different way. Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Differently from my it was just it was distance like I knew he was always a phone call away. There’s plenty of moments you know through the um hormone-filled you know middle school years that you know I call him in tears kind of thing frustrated about whatever. Um, but.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Or my mom when you encourage me to call him because I’m frustrated about whatever. Um, and you know he was he was there. But yeah, it was just it was just distance in you know in a lot of ways. Um god.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – God took on those same characteristics not because they’re true of god but their characteristics that I placed on him that yes god loves me I’m not worried about that. Um, but at the same time you know he’s a distant god he’s not he’s not present you know a good good portion of my high school middle school or high school and early twenty s

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – 3

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

Josh – That had been true before I figure that out you for sure I’ll leave you I’ll leave with but everybody with this because I think this is helpful so we have these conversations and it may be bringing up some wounds. Um. You know here’s kind of our challenge to you guys is is call or leave a message or or write a letter or write a long text message to your parents or your caregivers. Um, you know the person that took care of you. The people that took care of you and just let them know how thank you thankful you are of them and how they raised you.

Andrew – Um, here.

Josh – Like a good portion of what you who you are today. Both the good and the bad. But more importantly, the good in this conversation. Um is because of them. Um, so thank them for that. Um, even if it’s hard. You know, depending on your history that may be a really difficult thing for you to do. But I think it’s going to be a really healing thing.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, and don’t let their response to that dictate the benefit of that and this is what I mean by that is like they might not be an emotional place where they can receive it so they lash out or they they try to hurt you with it or whatever don’t let that be the the truth just just do what? um.

Andrew – Um, kind of.

Josh – Ah, hate to say this it this way. But I don’t know another way say I’ve thought my head like do just do? what’s right I Love them know that you you appreciate them that you love them and you’re thankful for what they’ve done in your life. So I plan on taxi my my parents this afternoon um to let them know that. But I think it’s it’s worth it.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – That’s a great challenge man. Yeah yeah, man for sure.

Josh – And then ask your siblings What they thought of you as a child and how much of a pain they asked you were that’d be an entertaining conversation and we have a group chat with like just the I’ll call them the original four I guess for lack of a better term I’ll text them and be like how would you have described me as a child I Really want to know be as.

Andrew – Um, yeah, that’ll be a funny conversation. Ah yeah, yeah.

Josh – Be as ah, honest as possible I’ll probably I’ll probably find it funny unless you’re gonna like be an asshhole and then I’m gonna shun you forever. Thankfully, that’s how our family works We you don’t get to not talk to somebody. It’s not a thing. Um, but yeah, so so.

Andrew – Right? right? Hey brother I gotta I gotta jump I was just gonna say and I know you’re gonna finish out but um. Yeah, Love you Man. Thanks for this conversation and for helping model it I know it’s It’s not not Easy. So Thanks for doing this for sure man.

Josh – Sweet, Um, yeah, and those listening thanks for taking the time find people to do these conversations with whether that’s a spouse or someone you you know already in a trusting relationship with or maybe it’s a a good friend that you’re building a trusting relationship with a fo relationship with people be fully known to be fully known by others. But thanks for listening.

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