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How Our View of God Changed
Episode No. 81

Conversation Two. “I grew up thinking that God was a distant judge and if I was good enough He would give me what I want.” We talk about our faith story with Jesus and the church in the second conversation in the conversations series. We are trying to model how to build a deep meaningful relationship with those you do life with.

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Resource – True Face: Beyond the Mask.
Recommendation – Carpinteria State Beach.
Recommendation – Island Beach State Park.
Resource – Betterself Icebreaker Deck.


Josh – Hello hello hello we’re just 2 normal dudes trying to live this jesus life. My name’s Josh.

Andrew – hey hey I’m Andrew and we are this jesus life podcast Josh we’re back how you doing my friend.

Josh – Dude, we’re back. We’re doing fantastic other than the fact that for like the seventeenth time I almost deleted the intro audio when we started the podcast like the software that we use as there’s like a menu bar at the top. But when you go into record mode.

Andrew – Fair enough fair enough.

Andrew – Oh.

Josh – The menu bar goes away. So like there’s a countdown and you’re like timing it to hit that the intro music but that menu bar goes away and 9 times out of 10 my mouse is sitting over the delete button.

Andrew – Oh man who that’s risky business but you do it? Well you do it? Well and hey people we should apologize. We we tried to record this and like halfway in our recording.

Josh – Not good, not good.

Andrew – Ah, last week my internet cut out but the the platform we used to podcast also crashed at the same time so it was quite a kerfuffle as many would say and yeah, so we’re back. We’re back now. Kfuffles.

Josh – We good O kuffles we are We do apologize. We probably could have tried to make it work but we’re like you know we’re just gonna chalk that week up to a failure move on.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – But we are back and you know, ah we keep trying we keep trying to talk so that’s what matters? Um, yeah, man middle of the week is years off to good start I know it’s kind of early morning your time. So.

Josh – That is true.

Josh – Yeah, but it it’s been a decent week. Nothing eventful other than like it’s Colorado and it’s springtime in Colorado which means beautiful weather one day high sixty s low seventy s and then the next day

Andrew – Yeah, thanks for making it happen bright and early. Thank you.

Josh – In the teens and it’s just blasting you with coal there in snow. Yeah, it’s miserable and then it’s nice again. It makes no sense at all right now. It’s ten twenty something degrees I think when I took my dog out which is like on the border of.

Andrew – Oh Brutal Brutal That’s hard. Great. Oh.

Josh – Do I put on real pants or do I just go out in basketball shorts weather. It was a mistake today. The wind was blowing so you know halfway through my my dog’s poop I was like ah dude, you need to wrap this up because I’m freezing Sorry that’s weird. Yeah.

Andrew – Wow! yeah.

Andrew – I’m sure he was freezing too. ° is is brutal. Yeah, that’s that’s no joke winter weather.

Josh – Yeah, that’s the only benefit is his his walks in the morning much quicker when it’s cold out but the high today is 50 and then tomorrow the high is almost seventy like Colorado please make up your mind I always like to say Colorado is bipolar weather.

Andrew – That. Wow, Get it together. Yeah, it’s True. That’s true. Yeah, we’ve officially started spring here in pencil I was gonna say wait. What.

Josh – Just it doesn’t know what it wants to feel. It’s just kind of all over the place. Yeah, what’s new dude I know something that’s new about you.

Andrew – What do you know? That’s new about me my standing desk my camper. That’s new to me. We yeah yeah, we last week so we’ve been saving for a while in our camper fund and last week we officially pulled the trigger.

Josh – But I guess at your camp or.

Andrew – And got a pretty sweet camper. It’s a pop-up, but it’s like a big pop-up that actually has a king mattress on one side and a queen mattress on the other a couch that converts into a bed and a dinette that converts into a bed. So it’s like crazy. Like way bigger than the pictures made me think it was and as I got it as I was towing at home I was realizing like this thing’s hefty like this is this is no joke. So anyway, man we I think next weekend we’re gonna try to do I’m gonna take Monday off. So not this anyway I’m gonna take a day off and we’re gonna go do an inaugural camping trip on a Sunday night or like leave on Sunday sometime and just stay one night to like test it out see how the girls do get them used to the camper get us used to the camper. All that. But then we have a bunch of cool adventures planned this summer ah so it should be really fun. Um, yeah, there’s a lot that ah comes with a camper, especially when your says like mine has has a shower. And a toilet inside as an outdoor shower as propane lines like electrical like there’s so much stuff to know it’s it’s a little intimidating but I’m slowly getting up to speed and feeling like I think I can fake it till I make it on knowing what to do with all this stuff. Yeah.

Josh – That’s all I really need well, you always have Youtube just make sure you’re not going into crazy places to camp where you don’t have cell service. You can’t look something up and you be right? Andrew’s also announcing with his camper that they’re becoming a Youtube family.

Andrew – Yeah, but I’m pumped man. Yeah ring right? That’s true. That’s true.

Josh – They’re gonna record their ventures this summer as they travel across the country so you know you know? Ah, ah Google them up on on the youtubes. It’s the Hannah Klan is there is there? Yeah is their tag. So just go look them up and you’re just gonna start producing videos.

Andrew – Ah, a bed. Yeah, okay, ah the hanna clan that’d be great. Okay, let’s be real my 3 year old is naked way too much of the time to be a Youtube family. Um.

Josh – Pretty exciting. So.

Josh – That can be like the thing can be like your stick.

Andrew – Keeping her clothed is like the most significant challenge you know I just have to go through and like Blur all the time like full body. Blur Yeah, exactly.

Josh – Yeah, you just skip put a black box. You’ll get so good at video editing because you have to like you have to track the black box properly all the way through all your shots.

Andrew – Exactly yeah man. No so I don’t know, but but I’m pretty pumped. We’re gonna go to great smoky mountain national park um, as part of our like trips this summer and should be really cool man and then we’re planning to end the summer at Asateeague Island which is like. 3 hours away but it’s a state and national park. It’s right across from Ocean City Maryland but it’s literally it’s its own large island that is all park and like you can camp there but there’s no like. Hotels. There’s no houses like and there’s just a few little buildings for like you drive across a huge bridge. Um, and yeah man it’s it should be really cool like we went there a few times last summer when we were at the beach and.

Josh – How do you get on the island. Okay.

Andrew – We’re kind of dreaming about it like wow if we had a camper as long as as good ac could be awesome. So in September that’s kind of where we’re planning to go. Um, yeah, we got some. We got some campsites and let me just say I know we have a lot to get to in our conversation. That’s not this. But. There are a lot of people who are going camping and buying campers these days and I think with covid that that made it just explode in terms of like that’s what people are doing for us. It was just cause like we were saving up. My wife’s counseling income and we were thinking like maybe we would go on a big trip.

Josh – Oh yeah.

Andrew – You know and then realized like we could do that once or we could buy a camper and do a lot of small trips. You know small to medium trips which with two little girls is probably way better for this phase of life. That’s our work in theory I’ll let you know how it comes about. But ah, but dude like people are intense about reserving campsites with the national park system and state parks. You can reserve exactly six months in advance and you can reserve starting at ten Zero a m eastern six months.

Josh – Oh I bet out.

Andrew – Away you know so like when we were booking assetique island there’s only a few places. It’s like really cool campsite right? next. It’s on the beach. Basically so there’s a lot of people who want to go there but dude we had like our number 1 site. Number 2 number 3 and number 4 all planned and like within seconds of the thing opening up to where you could book it like number one two and 3 were all gone and we scrambled and quickly got the fourth site like fourth option. But it was like nerve wreking because I don’t know. Apparently people with faster internet or like multiple computers open beat us there. It was an intense process. So anyway, yeah, if you ever want to go camping at a state or national park get in early. That’s for sure.

Josh – We used to go camping most summers when we were little on the beach in California and it was a similar thing and you know this is before the internet or at least the internet was you know, used for these types of things. So like you’d have to like call.

Andrew – Nice.

Josh – Think it was six months to get a reservation for the week that you wanted in but then week of you had to arrive at like their offices at like it had a been early I just remember maybe it wasn’t as early as six a m but it felt like 6 am is for a child to get in like a lottery so you can pick what site.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – No wow.

Josh – Like you hash for the week. Its just yeah, it was a it was a production that’s for sure I think everything’s online now and it’s still six months out they’re just like it’s not that’s saying fun.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s intense man but I’m excited I I think it’ll be really cool and like for us dude I love I know I’ll probably even reference some of this but I love being outside. And adventures. Um, camping backpacking hiking fishing really just spending time. Outdoors is my preference anytime I can and you know like. With our move back to Pennsylvania and having little kids like we haven’t been camping in quite a while. So the fact that yes with the camper. There’s a lot of stuff to know and a lot to fig about realistically it’s like it opens the doors up again to something that Janna and I both love. So I’m pretty pumped about it like it’ll be It’ll be really good to to kind of get back into that mode and and have some fun. So yeah, man something I’m for sure looking forward to otherwise spring is here and. It’s cold this morning not ° but still chilly and overall starting to warm up here in Pennsylvania so I’m cool with that. But yeah man. Oh Josh you you seem to have frozen and for once people if you’re listening um this is basically the first time this has ever happened. It’s pretty much always me that froze. Um, but I’m going to just keep talking for a moment here.

Josh – Dwell is a bible reading app that takes the passion of reading the bible and kind of packages it up into a simple app that lives on your phone that could remind you when ah. Need to be spending some time with Jesus and we talk a lot about fostering relationship with Jesus that’s one of the reasons we’ve partnered up with with dewell getting a subscription to dwell does give us a little bit of kickback which helps support the channel so we appreciate those that. Ah, do sign up using our link which is this Jesus Http://lifepodcast.comforward/dwelldwell to think about that for a second how you spell dwell not a word area I say that often. But this Jesus like for us dwell helps us out.

Andrew – Dwell.

Andrew – Right.

Josh – Um, if you subscribe using that link to their services which we think are fantastic. It’s so the reason we partner with them but Andrew good. We ended the series we did an in between podcasts then we tried to do a second podcast and everything crashed and failed on us and our computers hate us. So that’s.

Andrew – That’s right, Yeah, go check it out. Yeah.

Andrew – Yep, Yes, that’s true. Yep yeah.

Josh – That was that or Andrew’s internet company hates him and doesn’t want him recording podcasts anymore. So they attacked him or there’s aliens out there that are stopping us which is definitely also a possibility that aliens exist I don’t could be anything.

Andrew – Yeah I think those are the only realistic possibilities of you know what happened in between. Yeah.

Josh – You know? yeah I’ve been I didn’t tell you this I’ve been on this alien Kick recently. Ah listen to a Joe Rogan podcast like clip about some guy that worked in area 51 back in like the 80 s maybe.

Andrew – Um, ah yes, ah.

Josh – It was the 80 s ah and that just got me down this this like deep dive of like aliens and do they really exist and what are really smart people saying about aliens I’m from that camp that like I don’t know if they exist or don’t exist some people like.

Andrew – Oh man.

Josh – If they do exist they would really wreck their their faith or their ability to believe in a god because you know aliens are out there but shoot there’s plenty of you know groups of people that I would assume god created outside of Adam and Eve to populate the world that he didn’t talk about so.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, um.

Josh – Yeah, maybe he got bored and created other other now. It’s probably be like a tower of Babel kind of thing like we start connecting up whether even if they’re attacking us and taking our world for resources God probably is going to Intervene like the tower of Babel and separate it because it wasn’t wasn’t what he wanted These people got too smart.

Andrew – Then.

Andrew – Right? right? right.

Josh – These these tiny little human-like creatures. Ah, but yeah, that’s my views on on I know everyone was wondering what we’ve thought about aliens. That’s what we think.

Andrew – Okay, hey real quick I While we’re on this tangent I So I’m not a flat earther but I’m not not a flat earther I’m entertaining possibilities of like and flat Earth is like crazy. To say flat. But um, anyway, extra terrestrial extra terra which is the root of extraterrestrial. Um extra terra means extra um land or more land. Um. And many flat-earthers or those who at least say no, It’s not a spinning ball Glow Earth um, have theories that there’s actually more land with other types of life on it. Ah, that’s still attached to our Realm. Of the Earth but is maybe separated by um, an ice wall is is a big theory people have of like like a land mass of of huge mountains and ice. Ah Aka Antarctica is what many say.

Josh – An ice wall interesting.

Andrew – Um, where there’s maybe more land that exists outside of that with other forms of life. So extra terra life.

Josh – So aliens aren’t actually coming from other planets. They’re just coming over the ice wall just in just.

Andrew – That’s what people believe some people believe I don’t know if I believe that or not but I find it to be fascinating like you to go down a rabbit hole and just like understand like what are people thinking and why and what do I think about this because.

Josh – So is it the whole like we never went to the Moon Conspiracy or the moon is just part of our diorama.

Andrew – Oh that’s like a tiny part of it. Yeah, that’s that’s a part of it I Don’t think we went to the moon actually and we can talk about that more. Okay, good. Yeah I don’t I don’t think we went at all. Um.

Josh – I Don’t either. Ah, that flag was moving I don’t care what anyone says.

Andrew – Yeah, and what about the guy who stayed behind on the moon to pan up and get that good shot of people going back to the lunar Rover you know how’s that guy doing see having a great life up there? Um anyway.

Josh – Oh that’s fair. That’s fair. That’s fair.

Andrew – There’s a lot of reasons why I think we didn’t actually go to the moon including that I think you can’t even land on the moon I think it’s ah, a luminary and not a solid planet but we can talk about those things later. Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Wow one wow I think I think people have landed on the moon. That’s where China’s been building up its space base on the backside of the moon I’m convinced of that they have lasers pointed at the earth they’re going to blow it up.

Andrew – No I don’t think so I don’t think so I think that’s all of lies. Dude Oh no, that’s all the lies. Okay, well.

Josh – Very similar to independence day and then the America’s goingnna come together and we’re going to sing that song together and it’s gonna be a great moment. We’re gonna forget about politics for a day.

Andrew – Ah, you’re just all waiting for Independence day to play out in our real lives. Oh man. Yeah, that’d be like the culmination of Covid is over where’re in something new when we actually live the opening scene of Independence day.

Josh – Nice.

Andrew – I don’t really want the white house and like all of Dc and everything to be blown up that was pretty intense but it’s seared into my memory of like that’s what happens in an independence day. So dude, what a yeah what a great tangent. What a great set of tangents and I want.

Josh – That’s for right.

Josh – It’s true. It happens in most movies and involve the white house. It’s blown up.

Andrew – Um, so I really want to go down other tangents. Maybe you and I need to have a podcast sometime as a breather of just like hey what crazy what conspiracy theories do you actively entertain. You know that’d be really fun. Wow wow.

Josh – 32

Josh – Dude I have another podcast idea where you we could do these types of things.

Andrew – Just think it’d be a great in-between series discussion where you like all right? We’re just Goingnna have fun and talk about this stuff. You know because I don’t know that I could talk about it always, but it’d be really fun to go back and forth like stuff about nuclear weapons the moon space travel aliens.

Josh – The crazy conspiracy that we may or may not believe.

Josh – Um, you have views on nuclear weapons. Interesting I don’t how to use a nuclear weapons other other than they they may not be used in the near future.

Andrew – I Sure do man I Sure do yeah I could send you some I could send you some stuff you know. So anyway, let’s let’s talk that where are we going? That’s not this.

Josh – Ah, well, we’re gonna get. We’re gonna get back on track here that isn’t this though is this has been highly entertaining for me. Ah, we’re starting a new series. We’re calling this series conversations.

Andrew – Um, it’s been fun. Yeah yeah.

Josh – And this is actually from a a nonprofit called true face which is goal in life is to help people connect. Um, really connect with 1 another and connect with god more on the one one another than god piece. But god plays a role in that. So.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – We’re kind of working through this and and the goal of conversations is is really just to model. How do you build deep actual meaningful relationships where someone genuinely knows you now Andrew and I have known each other for a long time probably almost a decade at this point.

Andrew – Um, Wow Yeah close.

Josh – Not sure on the dates off the top of my head but you can do this with people you’ve you’ve known for 50 years you can do as a people you just? Well if you just met and you’re willing and you’re both. You know, desiring to go down these roads. But essentially you’re just trying to get to the root of who you are in the midst of a conversation. So someone else can know the real you and there’s 10 conversations that we’re going to work through probably 1 conversation per episode and this first one is just kind of introductory get to know each other. Let’s let’s share our story with each other to kind of set this thing up.

Andrew – Method.

Josh – But Andrew I’ll pass it off to you? um and essentially sharing your story with these 4 questions in mind you know what were some of your best memories from your childhood which are your worst what have been some of the highs and lows of your adulthood.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Um, how is your faith journey with God played out and where would you say you are in this journey right now you always want to take these one at the time and go back and forth or like run right through it.

Andrew – Yeah let’s let’s do one at a time back and forth and I know we have you know, maybe not quite enough time to to flush this out entirely. But I say man knowing that conversation 2 3 and 4 are actually set up to be a little shorter. If we if we need to take 1 of the questions into the next podcast and start there. That’s okay, you know, let’s just work through it. Ah naturally, but yeah, so I don’t think you said this Josh but if you are following long people and you’re deciding hey I want to try this? Um. We’ll we’ll add a link to where you could get the resource yourself to guide this in our show notes but a couple of the rules that one we’re going to break and 2 we will try to model. Um the rules of these conversations are no fixing like don’t. Don’t fix each other along the way listen hear understand ask more questions if you want but but you’re not listening to fix other people. Um, no leaking listen.

Josh – Which I’m gonna break that roll right? off the bat because I actually wanted to do this because I have a list of things that I want you to fix about yourself Andrew and I felt like this is a good way to bring it out just kidding no problem.

Andrew – Um, okay oh great. Thank you, Thank you? Dude this man don’t have to pay a therapist. Um, yeah.

Josh – And I felt like a podcast like a public form was the best way to get those things across to you.

Andrew – That’s perfect. Well the the second rule is no leaking which we’re recording these conversations and putting them out. But we’re doing so intentionally. Ah Josh and I might take things a step back knowing that. If he and I were just talking and not recording these I think it would be a full blown here’s my heart on my sleeve vulnerability level. There might be some things we pull back from just because this is a public forum and we have no idea who listens to it or when and and anyway. We be as vulnerable as we can, but we are leaking this conversation. Um, and and if you’re doing this one on 1 with somebody that just comes back to confidentiality accountability like you’re gonna hear another person hear their heart get to know them deeply and and then not. Use that information as ammunition or gossip but use it as as a trust building you know like you trust me I’ll trust you or doing this thing. Um and then no preaching is the third role and you know that’s kind of in line with the fixing but this isn’t counseling. This is building relationship deeper and we’re gonna try to model that but you know there might be things that like Josh might share something that a couple days from now. Maybe I’ll be reminded of the scripture sin that his way as an encouragement or something like that. But I’m not here to preach it Josh and Josh isn’t here to preach at me. You know this is this is building relationship. This isn’t jumping on our high horse to to talk to somebody else so anyway, with all that said, um, question one is what are some of the best memories of your childhood and some of the worst um man. So some of the best my family grew up like we would go to there’s this camp called word of life which is like a christian family camp where like kids little kids would go to the ranch youth would go to the island and the adults would stay at like. The main lodge. Um, and it was cool because we would go there 1 year and then the next year we would typically go to the beach either North Carolina or New Jersey and it’d be like our one week vacation in the summer as a family and. I don’t know I just have a lot of good memories around beach trips especially but I also have lots of good memories around word of life. You know and like those were things I really looked forward to as a kid knowing like hey school’s done in a month and two weeks after that we’re going to the beach or we’re going to.

Andrew – You know, New York for word of life or whatever like those were super super fun memories and like times as a family you know, just having fun. Um, we also my dad we didn’t have a camper growing up but we did have a boat um and we had a couple. Lakes pretty close by and man my parents were always really quick to say like hey the weather’s gonna be nice on Saturday like call your friends invite 3 or 4 of them we’ll get a pizza and we can go tubing and skiing and it was like. Best you know like super fun way to spend a weekend. Super fun way to spend time with friends and family. Um, yeah, boating as I got a little older camping came into play but it wasn’t necessarily my childhood. It was more like youth. You know? Um. Sixteen Seventeen that’s when camping started more I also had youth winter retreats on there from like my youth group because I had a lot of really good friends through my church some of some of my best friends in my life are people who I grew up going to church with and that are still really good friends today. Um, but man ah some of the hardest memories of my childhood I was thinking about this this morning because I knew I was going to have to answer this and I think so my dog moca. When I was really little. We had this dog oreo and oreo was a dog who like was pretty old when I was starting to remember things and she she died or she had to be put down and that to me was just like oreo didn’t like me she was already crotchety so when she was gone I was just like. But I don’t have to worry about getting bit by that dog anymore. So that’s good. Um, but we got Moca who’s this really cool chocolate lab. We got him into a puppy when I was like 5 maybe or 6 um and he. Had like a really good like five ish years of life and then developed lymphoma and like had a pretty rapid like decline and then death and man that was hard and that was sad because Moca was like. My dog you know like he was the dog that I saw grow from puppy to full size to like obedient protective of me like doing things with me so like yeah man when Moca went downhill pretty quickly and then passed away.

Andrew – That was I think it was the same year. My brother had went to college when he passed away I was already super sad about that. But I don’t know I just I was super sad about my brother going to college. She’s eight years older so I was about ten maybe eleven at the time and.

Josh – But the dog not the brother.

Andrew – Anyway, moca died right in that same time and that was after like a pretty quick decline in health and I don’t know it was just sad and hard and like sucked that was one of those things that looking back I’m like wow that was like my first. 1 of my first realizations of like what death actually is and just affected me deeply. Um I guess for a while but then around that same time my my grandma followed my my grandpa pretty quickly. Um, both passed away as well. And that was like that was tough. You know I think they were about a year apart in passing and I know my mom listens mom sorry if my timelines are off I was a little kid as this was happening and it’s hard to remember exact dates. Um. When things happened when I was little but all that to say yeah those those 3 mocha my my grandma and my grandpa passing were all like yeah, just extraordinarily hard to wrap my mind around being little enough that like I knew the impact of you know. My dog or family passing away but it was something that was like pretty hard to reconcile and the last thing like my brother and sister going away to college when I was younger was hard I was my my sister’s 6 years older than me and my brother’s eight years older than me. So when they kind of moved on with that next step of life moved out of the house and went to school I felt that pretty deeply and you know, just ah, a rapid change at a time in my life where I had moved from home school first through fourth grade to. Going to school in fifth grade and then pretty rapidly after that had some loss with mocha and my grandparents and my brother and sister both going to school and feeling like life was just changing so rapidly you know in a way that it hadn’t for a long time. So. Not necessarily all bad in there but but those were some of the like yeah hard experiences of my my earlier life I suppose um, what about you? man? How would you answer that question the the best memories the worst memories I didn’t do it as.

Josh – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Strict memories that just kind of like big things that stand out for me.

Josh – Yeah, now is great. Thanks for sharing. Um, yeah, have a handful of things here I did them as memories because that’s what the question asked for. So I’m gonna obey the rules on like my counterpart here who’s just gonna do whatever he wants just kidding. Ah.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – I’m not good at that. Yeah I do my own thing.

Josh – 1 one I already mentioned earlier. Ah you know, camping on the beach. We used to camp probably from the age of like man I was probably young 3 or 4 I don’t know if I was that young but pretty close to that up until almost high school. My dad was still doing it until we had like. We all got sunburn really bad I think this must have been like eighth grade ninth grade year and didn’t help him back anything up and that was the end of it for him. He was like I’m never doing this again. I’m selling everything and got rid of all the camping gear which is fair understandable I get it. But like when I hear zippers like long zippers.

Andrew – Oh.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Like go up reminds me of camping on the beach reminds me of you know those good old times and you know you know Thank God for my dad like he used to record everything so like he would put the camera up even if he wasn’t even like behind the camera this is like good old vhs days. So like this is the camera that sits on your shoulder.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Type of camera but you just put on the Tripod and just turn it on and record us doing whatever we’re doing so like a lot of our home videos are like there’s no real point to the home video but like we cherish them now because we can we get to watch these these things these memories kind of unfold. But there’s a lot of camping videos from carpenteria.

Andrew – Wow. Wow.

Josh – And California but yeah, that’s a big one um other like big memories that I remember like changing a lot of just who I was um so I started playing hockey and it was just roller hockey in California used to play on like the tennis courts kind of thing. Um. Some league that my dad got involved in and we ended up moving to South Dakota and moving to South Dakota there’s not a lot of supports you play. It’s football and hockey I assume basketball is probably around but we were a basketball family. It wasn’t around we play a little bit of baseball I guess when we first got there because it’s what we always did. But we we were introduced to ice hockey for the first time. Yeah, you know hockey in South Dakota um it was like I want to say it was like seventy five bucks to play for the year and they get let you borrow gear so like easy low bar to get into and we started playing that and. I remember going through Tryouts for the first time. Granted I’ve never played the sport at least on on you know, ah ice before and ah I remember waiting to like hear if you made the team or didn’t make the team and I don’t remember if it was a phone call. They called you or there was like a list. But I do remember sitting in the car and I think it was just my mom and I maybe my little my youngest brother was there and like finding out I made like the a team instead of just like the the regular b team and like what like I remember that being a big monumental moment. Um, and then.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, this will play into kind of the the heartaches of of my childhood but when I decided to go to camp for the first time I remember that being a big moment and this is you know christian camp kind of thing going with yo your church. I was probably I was been out been eighth grade going into eighth grade something like that when I decided to go and I remember that just being a monumental moment like for whatever reason we were having wind ze night outside because you know that’s the things you do when things are nice outside and ah. My youth pastor kind of trying to convince people to go you know from the front and for whatever reason making that decision to go ah made some of my you know, best friends like I still hold onto those friendships today on those trips. Um, and all that fun stuff and you know that got me into the church world and.

Andrew – And yeah.

Josh – Found Jesus really found Jesus more than just you know? Yeah, as much as you can understand who Jesus is as a child and then we used to take mission trips to auggariet the Mexico um, which is right across the border from Douglas Arizona and you know those were those are massive. Moments for me and not because like anything not because anything about the trip itself was wasn’t like oh we’re working with poor kids. This is so none that I didn’t learn a little bit spanish seen that they borfavore just sit down. Please. Um. Because that’s all you say when you try to do vbs with a bunch of kids that don’t speak your language. Um and you don’t speak there. but yeah but god did some big things in my own heart during those trips part of that was the journey of like hockey becoming less and less of a thing in my life.

Andrew – Rate great.

Josh – Um, going into those trips and making decisions to not try out for things and instead go on these trips and that kind of stuff but in the process of all that god called me a ministry and into pastor people. Well the specific ones are shepherd people. Um, yeah. You know on a street corner in Douglas Arizona um so there’s there’s those moments that just have great impact on my life and probably in a lot of ways were defining on whether it was getting into hockey or understanding. You know what church community really looks like and and what it feels like. Um, or you know good old. You know, childhood memories of camping on the beach or even like you know Christmas morning. Um, those kinds of things that you chase probably the good ones. The the bad side of this. You know my parents divorced when I was um.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – And first grade I think it was first grade. Mrs Finch’s class I think was her name Miss Finch my dad probably remembers her their names’ asked him. but um but I remember like sitting on my parents’ bed and these are the memories that like.

Andrew – Um.

Josh – Wrote down or like what’s the ones like I have vivid memories of like I could put myself in I’m ah I A what do they call I have a picture memory or where whatever I recall it like I remember details by what it looked like and where I was sitting in like the room layout. Um, and.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Like I remember sitting on the end of my parents’ bed and our parents trying to explain to a you know first grader in a kindergartner at the time because they just they were just telling my brother and I assume they already told my older siblings that that they were splitting up and what does that mean and all that fun stuff.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – But even like the arguments that my parents had after that and witnessing those arguments because before that you you’d see anything like you’re a child you only better. You have no idea that they’re arguing or whatever. Um, and even in the moment like sure kids are um are um.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Ah, resilient. But you know there’s definitely some lasting things from that that I probably didn’t recognize for a long time I’m well into my adult years before you’re able to go back and really realize like that was the moment for me relationship relational trust was broken. Um, not because anything my parents specifically did but like here is your here’s your safe place or like this is your safe home life and this is where you find security and you know that whole thing just you know gets ripped apart and I don’t blame my parents for for these parts of it. It’s just the unfortunate outcome of divorce.

Andrew – Pray.

Josh – Um, you know I have great relationships with both my parents and love them both and they’re both happily remarried. Um, since then but um, like the trust piece of relationship I think this is where it started for me a distrust of relationship and then things that happened that were hurtful. You know, moving forward from there were.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Things that just reinforce that truth so like we moved to South Dakota and this is like my late elementary years I remember telling a friend I remember it being a big deal for me to tell a friend who I liked but I end up telling a friend who I liked and then the first thing he did was like turned around and told the world which you know.

Andrew – Um, yeah, so um.

Josh – Now Now it’s kind of funny looking back at you like kids are stupid. Whatever but he like as a child you don’t know any better and then the fact that the girl didn’t reciprocate the feelings then you’re like oh this really sucks. Ah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – How man.

Josh – Ah, so like those moments reinforcing that. Ah you know other friendships that kind of imploded and I’m I probably wasn’t a easy person to be friends with since trust was not a part of the equation which which is hard to be be in relationship with people that don’t give trust you know it stays pretty shallow or when it goes. Deep you know they get hostile um 9 times out of 10 at least I did and those that I’ve experienced do as well. So those are probably the big things that just so you know this friend I did get him back like I did go to his house and we were hanging out one day and I called 9 own 1 and left the phone off the hook and left.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Don’t ever happened to that story. You never even said anything about it. But that was my revenge So we’re all good. Ah ah I had some other friends in there that like ah during that same time period. You know I became good friends with and then they like moved away which is reinforce like.

Andrew – Ah, um, um.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – You know your friends are going to leave you relationships are are fragile and all that fun stuff which took me a long time to deal with probably most of my twenty s to to figure out and so start trusting people again.

Andrew – Who.

Josh – Um, to get to those places where you felt safe in relationship and you could be vulnerable and could be honest so you didn’t have to put up the mask or the facade of who you wanted them to see you as that wasn’t necessarily the full truth of who you were um and not worrying about like you know it’s it’s funny. There’s there’s videos that go along with this conversation and. Um, if you purchase it I want I think it’s like twenty bucks it’s not expensive. Um, you can see those videos as well. But for copper reasons we can’t we can’t play them? Um, but in the video he talks about um, something that I just lost my complete train of thought on.

Andrew – The.

Josh – Because I got so focused on telling you telling you how much how much the the thing cost. Ah but I didn’t remember so either like get that part of my brain to kick on and be like what was the price of that and then that wiped out whatever was in you know the.

Andrew – It’s a good video. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Short term memory of where I was going with what I was trying about to what was it about to say um, but there’s there’s these shaping moments inside of your life that happen that you have to slow down enough to to really reflect on and see how it affected you and you know it’s not a matter of blame don’t.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Don’t get to this place of like you’re a victim of something and that’s the reason you are the way you are like you’re responsible for your own actions your own behaviors your own thought patterns no matter what has happened to you Um, like don’t go blaming of like well. So and so you know my friend that betrayed my trust. He’s an ass and.

Andrew – A fifth.

Josh – All people like don’t go down those roads. It’s not helpful to you. It’s not helpful to them if your parents divorce which you know unfortunately is the norm in today’s society like I I wouldn’t go blaming them for something. Um, you know it’s it’s not their fault for the the outcome of of how it affected you necessarily.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Right.

Josh – You just got to learn how to to move past it and overcome those those challenges don’t let those go I may be preaching right now but I’m not preaching at Andrew and preaching at our audience. So I feel like that’s acceptable when I break those rules these are great rules by the way these are rules that we use in our own community. You know of of hill city.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Ah, dude, let me? Yeah, they are yeah.

Josh – Um, are similar worded rules that we we live by. But yeah, keep going andrew.

Andrew – I was just gonna say yeah man that spurred a couple good memories that you know I just prepped quickly for this but like um I remember a couple years fourth of July I’m my best friend James’s house um was just like the coolest event ever we would James and I his dad was a fireman and went big on everything so he would have us wake up at five Zero a m that night so I’d stay the night before get up at 5 a m and we helped him put a. Um, a whole pig on a spit and roasted it all day and like it was just a super fun day getting ready for this big fourth of July lots of fireworks. Huge cookout trampoline bounce house like all this stuff you know? yes.

Josh – Nice.

Josh – This is like sandlot like replayed out in your actual life.

Andrew – Yes, it was really fun. So and then when we were older. We actually got to help light the fireworks which was intense and fun. But ah, but yeah man that was one of those like high water. Awesome moments that happened a few times in my childhood.

Josh – Nice.

Andrew – Like roast and hog and then by like five p M It’s ready to eat and like no food has ever tasted better. You know than like the pig we helped roast and like monitored it all day and stuff. Um, but yeah, one of the the hard other like a hard moment in my childhood that.

Josh – Yeah.

Andrew – Like you were saying that I’ve reflected a lot more on as an adult was when my dad got fired unjustly he was in pharmaceutical sales and essentially got fired because he was like nearing that like full eligibility for pretty sweet retirement deal. Um. And they brought in a new boss who fired my dad and like 6 or 8 other people who were all in the region and who were all about to be fully retirement eligible so that was like ah from there there was like many years of of impact on. Dad and my family and you know all of that but it was like it was deeply unjust and to see him be treated poorly and and then you know have that play out while being not the only child but feeling like the only child at home witnessing those. Kind of dinner table conversations of like applying for jobs and like feeling discouraged about not getting an interview and maybe depressed and maybe not and all the things you know that had a bit big impact on me and took a while to unpack and understand for sure. Um.

Josh – Can.

Andrew – But like you were saying love my dad you know I’m glad for the person that he is and the the father that he is in my life but that was a hard thing too for sure so I don’t see us getting through all 4 of these questions in our time today but that’s probably okay, um, but maybe we could get to the.

Josh – Now yeah, let’s just hit the next one and then yeah, we’ll come back next week do you have things prepared because I don’t okay, cool.

Andrew – Ah, second one? Yeah yeah, do you want to go first or should I jump in with highs and lows of adulthood. Yeah I have a little bit prepared not a ton. But yeah so I’ll start with my highs. Um, so. Adventures actually I’ll start with college like adulthood I’d say is roughly eighteen on. But for me, it was really like when I first felt independence you know of like I get to make decisions I’m doing this thing so I went to this private Christian College indian Wesley and. In the middle of nowhere Indiana and I kind of went kicking and screaming like my plan was was really to run away from god um, and my parents were like well we will help you with school if you go to a christian school if you don’t good luck. You know, pretty much. Um, so I went and did a tour of Indiana Wesley and with my best friend James um, fully intending to just write it off you know and be like yeah I’m out but I had grown up following Jesus while also trying to follow. Ways the world the same time trying to live a double life like I’ve kind of talked about in the past but dude I remember this is like a high and low moment that that I vividly remember like we were. You know we were staying in the night at indian to Wesley and aiwu and. And I remember god just clearly speaking to me like this is where you’re supposed to be you know and feeling this like weight of conviction of like but I don’t want that like I wanted to run away from this life and I wanted to just go do my own thing I already got accepted at this. Ohio University Athens which is like a huge party school huge public school like I already got accepted I’m going to do that and god’s like this is where I want you to be? you know um and it was just one of those moments where I like knew new a piece of god’s will in my life. Um. And I didn’t want to follow it but I felt like I I felt like I had no choice because I had heard him so clearly I’m like crap. Okay, you know so but anyway like fast forward to like amazing friendships built. Real relationships built and like at Indiana Westland later in my freshman year was like that was the moment where I had that come to Jesus moment of like literally I kind of gave god an ultimatum of like I’m gonna be I’m gonna live as well as I can for you.

Andrew – Or I’m not gonna pretend to at all like this is a moment you know and in that kind of moment of god like waking up the next morning and just feeling firm in my conviction that like yeah I’m gonna I’m gonna do my best to live out a real relationship with with god. In my life going forward that was a true high and like that was the real moment where I don’t know if I was necessarily saved or not I think it happened long before that but that was the moment where I made the choice to like I’m gonna try to really live this out and it’s because I’m choosing it. It’s not because i. Grew up in a church or said a prayer. It’s because I am like making this choice of god I’m gonna try to live for you so that was a high um other than that man and just fast forwarding like I think about getting married to Janna how incredible. That experience actually was but then also quickly on the heels like getting in a yeah u-haul driving across the country to Colorado springs where we knew nobody literally for ah for a job selling roofs door to door. And an apprenticeship at our old church that paid like two hundred bucks a month for Jana to like learn ministry you know and see if she was really called full time into it or not um, dude like crazy leap you know and like. Really the whole time we were doing it where like we feel super excited about this a little bit terrified and we’re gonna see what happens you know? Um, so it was just that that was the biggest leap ever in my life up until that point. And maybe there’s been a few since but you know just like the the number of like I remember a low was feeling like even though Jen and I were grown closer together and had a great start of our marriage like. Feeling of low and like we had just come out of this Indiana Wesley and bubble small college environment with like all these amazing close friendships at our fingertips and then like this deep loneliness at the same time of like we’re thousands of miles from our friends like. Many of them are still in Indiana we’re out here together but alone you know, um, coming into and understanding some of the weight of what ministry looks like and feels like along the way. Um, but then the like Ray of sunlight bursting through was like.

Andrew – Friendships that came out of that big leap like man you and I one of the best friends I’ve ever had and that wouldn’t have ever. Our paths would have never crossed if we didn’t leap to Colorado as far as I’m aware um, not a good number of other friends followed by like crazy adventures like. Camping and backpacking in the Rockies float club which we’ve talked about floating down. Ah epic trout streams and crazy inner tubes with you know, being loud and bothering fishermen but having just so much fun going to winter retreats and and doing ministry together. With youth like so many good things. Um the lows and and I’ll just go real fast because we’ll have a few minutes I want you to get it yours into lows of adulthood have all to do with ah with the sanctification process in my own life of. Moments where god has revealed like and here’s what we’re going to focus on working on. Um I say the lows because those are the moments where my own imperfection not that I ever think I’m perfect, but my my imperfection is brought front and center. Has been brought front and center. Um in a way that’s like well I have to trust god to work through this and those are the areas where a lot of growth has come from in my life but but they’re not easy. They’re they’re hard to work through and it’s hard to face like. here’s here’s where sin lives in my heart and my life and how it affects others and here’s where I need god’s help to to work through this and and to live a little bit more righteously as I go but yeah, man sanctification is hard and. Those are highs and lows way too fast I could tell a lot of stories but those are a couple of the things that stand out what about you.

Josh – That’s great. Um, as I was writing my list as you were talking and I was listening to your stories things that reminded me of other things and then doing my best because remembering we are in a public form and I’m not just talking to Andrew I’m talking to everyone that listens. Crossing some of these things out where you’re like I probably shouldn’t share that because it involves other people that’s not fair. Ah so this list is a little bit here and there we’ll see but Andrew had that story about in college making his faith his own mine happen a little bit before that it was going into my senior year. Of high school and that’s probably where my I would start my adult story is recognizing you know Jesus calling me to ministry shepherding a sheep and then really dropping everything else to pursue that one one thing or that one dream that god’s placed on your heart. So I remember like preaching for the first time which is which was. A highlight and also a low light. Um because you weren’t good at it and people told you that you weren’t good at it which is fantastic for someone just starting out. Ah but ah like starting to catch that bug. You know I was in ministry early on I think I was nineteen when I had my first you know. Ah, job and ministry you know with junior high students but like so many formative and like Andrew said you know this is true of all minister. But when you get to do ministry friends and build those friendships and relationships and you know I was nineteen. We had a couple of people that were close to my age you know on our our leadership team but most of them were in their forty s and 50 s.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Um, in learning how to lead and in that perspective as as you honor those that you know have gone before you but at the same time I’m still try to lead in a direction. Um, but they were extremely gracious people. I love them while we actually lost one of them early using in his mid 60 s I think when he had a heart attack and. And man did that that wreck me that was like shoot. It’s probably about eight years ago that he passed away. Um, but just those those relationships that you get to build um inside those environments as you’re trying to chase after a common goal was was definitely a highlight the opportunity to to build something from nothing was a highlight.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Um, and just getting into you doing what god you feel like god called you to do and having you know having people that believed in you enough to give you that opportunity was was huge I don’t think these people listen. But if they ever did listen I want to honor them because these are good stories but you know pastor my pastor at that church was. Ah, Dennis Adams who I grew up at that church. So I knew Dennis for a long time and then Kurt Blocker was the youth pastor that gave me that opportunity as well. Both great men of god still pursuing you know a life of ministry and and investing in those around them and in different ways. But. You know, gave me an opportunity to to serve so I appreciate those guys I remember this isn’t a bad. This is a great thing but at the same time. It didn’t feel great in the moment. Um, so I struggle with porn probably from shoot I don’t know. Ah. Early teenage years if not younger than that through my mid 20 s and I remember sharing that with somebody for the very first time a friend of mine we’re sitting at Starbucks and like no joke and I think I’ve told this on the podcast before no joke. It took me remember like trust issues is it was Josh’s biggest thing.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Don’t trust relationship and it took like 45 minutes to drum up the courage to share with this person here’s my struggle on what’s going on. Um, as we sat outside of a Starbucks and their response was um, it wasn’t like it wasn’t demeaning it anyway. But it was like That’s that’s all you have to tell me like I thought you you killed somebody just because of the buildup like took me 45 minutes and they knew like I was like I yeah I want to mean and tell you something that I’ve been struggling with and then it just took me all this time but like that’s an exposing experience if if you’re not.

Andrew – Um, I thought you murdered and yeah, um, yeah. Um.

Josh – In a relationship in that way where it feels that way at times not unhealthy like have relationship build up to it. Don’t jump into that. That’s that’s not that’s not going to get you to where you want you to go or you want to go but like if it does if you’re not feeling. Exposed vulnerable in the things you’re not going deep enough in relationship with people I mean that’s true with those you walk with you walk with um I left that first church just because I got dissatisfied with the state of the Christian Church at that point.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Um, not in a sense of like screw church I’m out of it. But like this this question of there’s got to be more to this like church can’t just be we show up on Sunday we show up on Wednesday and we’re good christians like there’s got to be more of this whole thing so that started this whole journey of really. Really trying to learn what it meant to love god and love people and love people that don’t think the thing same way that you do you I left that church with one major regret. Um, you know we took a ministry from you know, probably 30 to to over a hundred in the three years that I was there on staff there which was great wins but as I looked back on it. Um I remember like I was like I don’t I don’t think anyone came to know Jesus in that entire time we could draw a crowd. We could have a lot of fun. We could put on big events. But I don’t know like to even to the point I might have shared this before on the podcast. But even to the point where like I I would screw up how to spell Gospel not because I don’t know spell Gospel I don’t I didn’t. Um, but like I would flip letters around because I don’t know how to sound words out so I can’t spell them if I don’t know them but I just never used it. It was the realization that I came to was like we never talked about the gospel and we never dug into these things. We just tried to build something that was fun and drew a crowd so when I ended up at my next church after that. Um.

Andrew – Close and.

Josh – Like that was the thing like we’re going to preach the Gospel wholeheartedly and people are gonna come to know Jesus I don’t care about anything else and that was the ministry that we ran. That’s the ministry injured and I met each other in and but so I left the church and for about 3 years I just kind of worked other jobs. So.

Andrew – Um, and.

Andrew – And.

Josh – I ended up at a at Apple for a good season and and learned what it meant to to build relationship with people that that didn’t view life the same way that I did that didn’t have the same worldview and how do you you know be friends with those you disagree with and a lot of different key areas and um, got to got to be friends with a lot of cool people and. Learn how to build relationships like it was ah it was there was a lot of healing in that season 2 of building relationship and being a part of I remember getting invited to a party and like thinking and I didn’t go to the party because I was thinking myself like well they don’t really want me there. They’re just they’re inviting. Everybody.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Home.

Josh – And then after the fact they’re like dude I thought you were coming like you didn’t you said you were coming. You didn’t show up those kinds of things you’re like oh I I can actually be a part of group. So there’s healing in that too because remember Josh has trust issues most of his childhood and into his early 20 s and probably still to some extent today. Just not as bad. So.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah, and.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Like that played into it. Um as well and you know knowing you wanted you needed to be back in ministry but didn’t know what that looked like ending up at a church. You know that was ah a blessing as well to get back into ministry after being out of it for 3 3 4 years um and then you know the journey of that there’s there’s more that could go but for the sake of time we’ll we’ll kind of cut it short here because we’re already at an hour I think we apologize that this is a long one but the other big piece of this too is that ah that I want that I remember like my brother. My brother’s a year and a half younger than I am a year and a half is that right? yeah year and a half um and like he was like he was he was a rock for me in a lot of ways that it probably never really gave him true credit for um through all those stories and through the childhood stories like you know we were you know it’s my only sibling that we share the same exact parents. You know both mom and dad and not just you know half siblings or step siblings.

Andrew – Here.

Josh – So like we journeyed for a long time together and um, you know there’s a lot of things you know he joined the navy got married joined the Navy and moved away. Um, which for the first time you’re like wow I’m by myself and you got to figure this out on your own. Um, you know you don’t have someone to lean on or or whatever and.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – I know Andrew Listens Man I’m getting teary-eyed. Um.

Andrew – Hey man I could resonate I remember I’ll give you a sec while you’re you’re working through it I can resonate feeling a lot of that stuff too when I was maybe a little younger. But yeah that you know you’re rock sibling moving away. It’s.

Josh – Thanks.

Andrew – It’s no joke so back to you and it’s okay, you know if you’re feeling it. But yeah.

Josh – Um, and I wasn’t yeah it’s just you know I know Andrew Listens and I I love your brother. We’ll leave it at that. But you know it it. We we we model this because we want you to to have the same type of relationships. You know there’s there’s ah, oftentimes in our own life like there’s blind spots that we have in our character. There’s blind thoughts we have in our behavior. There’s blind spots we have in how we view god and in the character of who god really is or there’s things that god wants to. To invest in you not whether it’s he wants to change inside of you for the good or the like or he just wants to bring blessing in in an area not blessing in the sense of like blessings and cursings but like he wants to give good things to those who love him. Um you know, ah, Paul’s words to romans to the romans. Um, like we miss those things oftentimes because we’re just not hearing god on that that wavelength or or that topic or whatever and and we need that community around us to speak those things into us or to remind us of truths that are true about us because of who god is and and what got his done in his faithfulness in the past. Um, and this is why relationship matters like you know, oftentimes you get to these places especially in our adult lives is you look all around and you may have a ton of friends people you spend time with and hang out with but you have this like feeling in the back of your mind constantly and that no one really knows the real you. So you feel like you never really belong in those those environments or those groups of people. But this is how you start to feel that you know you belong um is you invest in in getting to know each other through conversation. So that’s that’s why we’re doing this conversation series is we want to model this.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – And we want to model this to to those that listen because we think it’s important. Um, but 2 it’s it’s a huge tool for god to use those individuals in our life to speak truth into our hearts into our lives in areas that we may be missing and um, that’s always ah, a big win when we’re fostering relationship with both god and people.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Um, and right you know we’ve said this before but God’s about relationship, he wants you to phosster relationship with him. He wants a fo relationship with people as Christians we should be relationship experts. There should be no one else on this planet to do relationships better than we do them that we love people. Well.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – And we speak truth in the most filled graced way that we possibly can and that you know at the utmost what matters most to us is the well-being of those people around us and not necessarily you know, bashing people over the head with truth um and using it as a weapon rather as an ability for people to grow.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – You know? okay.

Josh – And to become who God’s called them to be so practice these things like we said we’ll post in the show notes where you can um, get these same questions and go through this same experience and that we’re going through. Um, we’ll pick up back on week one and maybe jump right into the second conversation as well as we talk more about Actually they probably align pretty well cause.

Andrew – And.

Andrew – Yeah, totally totally.

Josh – We’re to start talking about the faith story piece of it. Um, how we met Jesus and that kind of stuff so we’ll we’ll keep going with that Andrew Any last words as we close out this episode that we broke an hour again even though we are doing really really good for a while and keeping it to the 45 minute marker

Andrew – Hey, that’s okay, that’s okay, dude. Um, yeah man just thanks for for being vulnerable in in real I know it’s not easy people. Try to do this the stuff that’s hard is the stuff that tends to be good. So it’s worth it. Thanks for listening Josh good to see my friend.

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