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We Have Needs
Episode No. 88

Conversation Nine. We talk about unshared needs and the difficulty of sharing those needs with others. We all have God-given needs that must be met in relationship, but we would often instead give than receive and miss out on the depth of relationship.

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Resource – True Face: Beyond the Mask.
Verses – John 13:34-35
Verse – Matthew 6:32
Verse – Galatians 6:2
Resource – Bestself Icebreaker Cards


Josh – Hello hello hello hello we’re just 2 normal dudes trying to live this jesus life. My name is Josh.

Andrew – Hey I’m Andrew and we are this jesus life podcast Josh I just took your great sip of coffee how you doing what? ah.

Josh – Dude it had it happened again as the music is playing I was like oh crap. What do I say I I have no idea and then I was like just trust the habit just start with the None word and they’ll probably come out.

Andrew – Ah, just just just lean into it. This is episode 88 dude I still feel the same way every time I’m like wait is it my turn do I go what am I saying what am I saying? Ah, it’s so funny.

Josh – Ah, this is a new thing for me I feel like I’ve never like I’ve never screwed it up before early even like messed up in my head and now it’s like a thing. Fantastic.

Andrew – Ah, ah dude I I I got to be honest though I got to be honest I do hope one day you totally flop on it and you’re just like hello hello hello. Ah, my name’s.

Josh – It is summertime and that’s just where our heads are at these days.

Josh – Welcome man I always forget like ah, not huge ones I get a nephew graduating in California I’m headed out there.

Andrew – Josh how you doing like ah it’s so funny man it is summertime though. Yeah yeah, you got any big summer plans man. Yeah.

Andrew – Nice.

Josh – Um, and my brother just got back into the states last night from being deployed. so yeah so I think he’s he’s a few weeks somewhere and then he finally gets home. But um, he’s at least back in the states. Yeah, so at some point I assume I’ll go visit him.

Andrew – Oh Sweet the one who is deployed. That’s that’s awesome man. Good. Wow! Good. Nice.

Josh – As well. But I haven’t figured that a up. But yeah on that table I Forget like how much I love summer until we don’t until it’s just gone for a while that comes back. You’re like oh yeah, that’s right I Love Summer There is not a better better day.

Andrew – Yeah, it comes.

Andrew – Yeah, it is the best I love summer and and by late summer I kind of get a little bit tired of the heat and then I really appreciate fall because of that and fall in Pennsylvania lasts a long time. It’s like a month to two months of like you know.

Josh – Um.

Josh – Does it.

Andrew – Cool breezy weather leaves changing like all the things you know in in Colorado it’s like two days um but yeah man I’m all about it. We have some camping we have a camping beach trip coming up in a couple weeks and I’m pretty fired up about that I think it’s gonna be cool.

Josh – Nice. Are you taking the trailer. Do you still call it camping with a trailer is that still the thing.

Andrew – Or joined in my family vacation for some of the week yes Yes, we were going to like one I call it camping. Yeah I mean but it’s you know with the camper. It’s it’s a little different story than like a popup tent in the backpack. But.

Josh – Have you used the shower on the camper yet. Let me curious how well it works Well, the fact that you can poop and chart at the same time has to be fantastic.

Andrew – I Have not no I have not and I’ve not it works. Yeah, yeah because the shower is above the pooper. So yeah, you could sit on the pooper and.

Josh – Do you plan on on doing your ah your cold shower routine in the camper as well. While camping.

Andrew – You know do your business while you shower.

Andrew – I I’m sorry I I got I I am so sorry Josh you’re gonna have to carry this for just a minute I will be right back and I’ll tell you why in a minute.

Josh – ah ah I was like maybe maybe the ah the feed went out and that’s where he disappeared too. But no, he has he has girls that are excited for summertime so they’re going a little a little bat shit crazy but hey kids are kids and that’s what they do. Ah. Kind of the update everybody we’re in the middle of a series called conversations where we’re having None conversations. Um, it comes from a company or an organization called Trueface you can find them at this specific conversation will be linked to our show notes at this jus But we’re going through really. Ah, None or None conversations. This is conversation number None to to have with a close friend someone that loves Jesus loves you in that order to really dig into a None relationship just so you’re fully known but also to to dig into some of the ah the. Roadblocks that may be happening in in your life and how you view life and how you view god that is keeping you from growth with Jesus whether it’s a faulty view of god’s character or a faulty view of how you’re supposed to relate to god or all those things I think we talked a long while back. We. We had this statement that we said was um, sorry I’m trying to remember the statement off the top of my head as I wipe my nose ah sorry um, but there’s a statement of man if you’re not spending time with Jesus right? like that’s that’s the key of of the christian faith god or Jesus commanded us. Um, in Matthew he says love the lord your god with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind. Love your neighbor as yourself the key to this christian life is relationship. It’s foster relationship with god and fostering relationship with people and I find oftentimes people that don’t spend time with god on a regular basis or at least. Actual relational time. Maybe they practice spiritual disciplines they read their bible and they go through a list of prayer. But it’s not actually foster relationship with Jesus but those things is just hased that they complete um but I find those that don’t actually foster relationship with Jesus believe a characteristic about Jesus that isn’t true.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – And that’s that’s keeping them. It’s putting them in a place where they actually don’t like Jesus and I would argue. There’s no characteristic in Christ you know that that would want to keep you from him. Maybe your sin is keeping you from him or you know.

Andrew – Okay.

Josh – Like I said the the view characteristic view. You have of him That’s just not true. Maybe it’s like God’s just waiting to to smite me right? like yeah I’ve done too many. Yeah I’ve been dumb too many things and he’s going to hit the button and I’m going to be dead so I have to do more good things than bad things like it’s that mindset.

Andrew – Smite me? yeah.

Josh – Um, rather than Jesus went to the cross 4 your sin he loves you deeply. He’s always going to love you deeply. Nothing’s going to change that fact like those identity pieces of of who we are and I find when I deal with those characteristics of god that aren’t true I want to spend a lot more time with god. Um, you know we prayed before this podcast and it was just I’d even pray Andrews praying but I don’t know what Andrew was saying because I started praying myself but I wasn’t listening to him was being a bad friend. Um, but it was just one of those moments like thank you Jesus like I needed that I just need to know you’re there that you love me. Um.

Andrew – Um, yeah, ah.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – But yeah, so we’re going through these conversations. We get 2 conversations left I’m really excited because it sounds like Andrew’s back to find out what happened I would assume his daughter caught something on fire that was where my head went.

Andrew – I’m back I am back. It was not fire. Um, but no man one day if you ever have little kids you will realize that there are certain things that just become very dramatic and. Let’s just say my my 3 year old really desperately had to poop and she ah only I could take her to the potty she needed daddy to take her to the body and you know what when it’s time and it’s like gonna make her belly feel better I’m like yes I will jump off pretty much any meeting for a minute.

Josh – Oh gosh and that sucks.

Andrew – To get you to that potty so you can poop now I Hope she doesn’t poop Wow showering like we were talking about in the camper because that would be that would not work out inside the house nearly as well as it would on the camper. Um, not sure it would work out like it’s It’s possible in our camper but not advisable.

Josh – That’s funny.

Josh – It’s true.

Andrew – You know, um, and yeah man anyway, sorry I had to jump out like that dealing with a little bit of drama with both the girls being crazy. But um, yeah man I just you you ended that with like the idea around prayer just like how you needed that this morning and. Felt the same way. You know like I’m always every time we start. It’s like we have a window to to do this and I don’t know about you Josh but like I’m always tempted to just skip the prayer and be like now then we’ll get two more minutes you know or three more minutes or whatever podcasting. Um, but very rarely do we actually miss it. You know like it’s it’s really important to pray over whatever we’re going to say here to each other and to others that listen down the road. So anyway, man it’s a good reset and like. Just find in my personal life I’m almost always tempted to skip prayer. But when I do not do that I I never regret it. I’m always like yeah that was time better spent than whatever else I would have done so yeah man, it’s good. It’s good.

Josh – Nice, nice. Um, we’ve talked about them in the past, but it’s been a little bit of of some time you know we talk a lot about foster relationship with Jesus and looking for opportunity and different practices that help you do that. Um, and one of those things that we have found is hey of reading your bible and and trying to foster aj is difficult maybe listening to the bible read to you helps a little bit better but dwell is a great resource for that. It’s an app that lives on your phone. So it’s always with you has great playlists for lack of a better term.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Um.

Josh – Um, to kind of go through specific topics. Um, it’s read by people that actually care deeply about and passionate about reading god’s word remember we don’t do this again for just for the sake of it or to listen to it and check off a box that I’m a good christian for today but it should be a jumping off point for conversation with Jesus.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Um, so if you haven’t had a chance to check outwell yet and you can check them out at this Jesus that’s this jesus life podcast for Slash Dowell and definitely check them out and see if it can fit inside of your normal routine as you fo relationship with Jesus. But Andrew I know time is a short today as I have a meaning that I’m going to have to get to so let’s dive right into conversation number 9 where we talk about we are. We’re talking about what we need.

Andrew – yes yes, yes yes um number 9 number 9

Andrew – Yeah, me to me too. It is a lot easier for me to supply needs than to talk about what I need um which will get there and that’s kind of the purpose of this conversation.

Josh – And I’ll be honest with you. That’s a hard conversation for me to have.

Josh – Yep yep.

Andrew – Um, yeah man this do you want me to go first. Do you want to go first I’m cool either way all right tweet.

Josh – Yeah, go ahead. Yeah I’ll read it for you. Is it harder for you to receive love than to give love if so wide. Do you think this is.

Andrew – Man receive ah receive love um I would say and and I don’t think I don’t know I maybe even the why there is just like like I was foreshadowing of like I really like to be the None meeting needs. Giving serving I’d rather be that side of the equation than the None being served having my needs met being loved well like yeah, it’s it’s much easier for me to be on the giver side than the receiver side for sure. And I don’t know the deep root cause of that other than just I don’t know like that’s just that feels like how I’m built I guess um, maybe there’s something behind that where I’m like no I I want to be in control. So I like to be the giver. Not receiver. But yeah man, that’s that’s my short answer.

Josh – Yeah.

Andrew – And I know we’re gonna go into this much more. But but what about you where do you fall on that.

Josh – Yeah I think because of the way the question is worded that we’re all in the same boat. We’d rather give than receive and I think we I think we make that to be a virtuous thing. We like well of course I’m generous. That’s why I like to give rather a receive. But I think it really does come back to pride I think it comes back to control like you said I think it comes back to trying to protect ourselves because of people if we don’t have needs then then we can’t be hurt. Um, if those needs aren’t met, but the reality is every human has needs and we’ll get into you know specific actual needs that you know science is determined all humans need. But yeah I like I like to give rather than receive um and it’s harder for me to receive. Ah, because there’s a level of vulnerability that has to exist for me to None share a need so I can receive something or to accept a need being you know or accept. However, you say that except the receiving of.

Andrew – Um, the receiver of accepting needs I don’t know be served be served. Yeah yeah.

Josh – That need being that I don’t know there’s a lot of words right? there? Um, yeah, whatever be served there. We go ah and I think there’s there’s a level of voterability even and when that of like I’m weak. Um.

Andrew – Um, yeah I have a need. Maybe yeah yeah.

Josh – And I would say like this isn’t just a dude thing. Yeah I think this is ah this is is a human thing. You know sure you know men are supposed to be strong and in all those different characteristics. But um, like I think this is true of women as well like we’d rather give love than receive love because it’s safer for us.

Andrew – Um, yeah, ah exactly? yeah yeah.

Josh – Um, I’m in control when I give love 100 I can give how I want to give it I can give based on what they need and you know justify it in my head that I’m doing great things and giving love is not a bad thing. But if it’s not 2 way is a real relationship going on there.

Andrew – Ah. Of who.

Josh – I Guess is what it really comes down to um and it’s the same thing with God like I think there’s things God wants to give you I’m not saying like physical things or or you know quote Unquote Blessings I’m not someone that believes in blessings and cursings I think that’s a covenant theology. But um.

Andrew – Sure right.

Josh – Ah, do think God gives good gifts to his children. Um, and I think a lot of those gifts are just growth in you so you have the ability to handle life in a different way in a different perspective. Um and continue to hold great hope for a better future and great joy and peace and patience in the midst of trials. Even if life is hard. Um, you can hold onto those things because God has given you the gift of essentially growth like he’s adjusted and changed your character. Holy Crap. There is an antelope that just booked it down the street next to my house. The thing was Holen probably cause. Yeah.

Andrew – What? No an antelope an antelope that’s crazy man that is crazy.

Josh – I think they’re called antelope they look like antelopes and might have a different name in Colorado but the thing was is probably because he was all by himself. He’s like where is my pride of Antelope or whatever they call pack of Antelope or whatever their names are and he just just running down the street. Hopefully he’s okay, um.

Andrew – Um, that’s funny man that’s funny.

Josh – But yeah I think that’s a big thing. It’s this. It’s a pride control thing. That’s why we give love but we justify it to you like no this is the generous thing to do. We’re supposed to sacrifice for others and that is true, but really hard to have relationship with people that just give and don’t receive.

Andrew – He oh.

Josh – Probably experienced it or maybe you haven’t put your finger on that’s what it is but something’s going on. Let’s go through this list Andrew the question is what needs stand out to you feel free to add more but these are kind of the the there’s a name for these things. Um. Like core emotional needs relational needs for humanity like um like every human needs to experience all these to some level but there’s definitely more or there’s definitely some that are gonna speak more to you than others. But this one has.

Andrew – How is that what they are and.

Josh – 1 2 3 4 5 None I think there’s 7 here on this list. But I’m gonna give you all 10 of them and I think this is from like some psychologist or something like that I don’t know but acceptance I’m receiving another person’s.

Andrew – Yeah, sweet.

Andrew – Um, why there’s me.

Josh – Another person willingly and unconditionally being willing to love another in spite of offenses affection, expressing care and closeness through non-sexual physical touch and verbalized love Appreciation. These are all are these all a words. No. Okay, just the big ones appreciation expressing things or praise recognizing someone’s Accomplishments or Efforts Approval building up or affirming another affirming positive character qualities liking or loving someone for who he or she is.

Andrew – Are they always.

Josh – Um, attention. Conveying appropriate interest concern and care taking thought of another and entering his or her world comfort responding to hurting people with with appropriate words feelings and a touch. Ah, feeling and expressing sadness for another’s pain encouragement using another in persistent and and persevere towards a goal respect to value in regard Highly treating someone with importance security. Confident of Harmony in relationship free from fear of harm support coming alongside and gently and gently help carry the load um all and some of these in all honesty when I None read them? Um, ah. I Felt like some of those weren’t allowed to have like I’m not I’m not allowed to have um approval like that’s a bad thing to seek the approval of others. There was another one on here too. But I don’t remember i’ thought my head which one it was but some of them feel like these are bad.

Andrew – He yeah.

Andrew – He.

Josh – Needs to have because we’ve seen the the dark side of them if they become too important. They’re not balanced. Um, but you know these are all you know 10 are all human needs that every human needs to experience. But Andrew out of ease which one do you feel like really stands out to you.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Right. Man. So so 2 one is comfort um like man I I would like I’m a doer you know and I am not good at slowing down and like relaxing resting. Breathing out having comfort. You know I’m I’m pretty good at just like being on the go on the go all the time. Um, and and my life recently one of the things that I’ve been um, enjoying a lot and doing just for enjoyment is reading and for a long time I just. Wasn’t doing that because I was saying I’m too busy with whatever you know and and wasn’t doing that but like in the evening before I go to sleep each night I read for a while and and I’ve decided like most of the time I’m actually not going to read like professional development stuff I’m just going to read. Books I enjoy. Um, and I’m not gonna try to read them fast I’m just gonna like take my time and go through it and have like a sense of comfort about it like this is just something I do to enjoy and to get ready for sleep. You know, um, sorry my None ar old’s going nuts.

Josh – Are you pulling out. It’s all good Are you are you pulling out all your romance novels I Assume that’s what you’re reading, especially the steamy ones.

Andrew – You what. No more I’ve been reading books they’re more that are more in the line of like lord of the ring style books like Nerdy Ah fantasy fiction type stuff you know, but like I like it I’m cool with that and yeah, man. Yeah.

Josh – Got Jim.

Josh – Dude this is this is off topic but did you know that there’s board games that you can play by yourself right? Like that’s what I said I learned that today that there’s solo play of board games and I like that.

Andrew – Ah, but what? no I didn’t That’s crazy. Wow.

Josh – The craziest thing I’ve ever heard and seems ah counter productive to what board games were designed to do but okay, that’s fine. Whatever but I also didn’t know like there was a whole world of board games. Yeah, but that’s but like growing up the most complex board game we would play is monopoly.

Andrew – It does. But then again like that’s what that’s why then a lot of video games are right right? yeah.

Andrew – Right.

Josh – Had no idea there was a world of board games out there up until like five or six years ago and then I have friends that play and I call them nerd games because I just feel like you got to be a little bit of a nerd to want to play these things but they talk me into it so I play I like the manipulative ones though.

Andrew – Yeah, right to enjoy those? yeah and they are fun. Ah, right right.

Josh – Where you can manipulate your partners and and other players Those are my favorites but they won’t play him with me anymore. So I’m too good at it and slow little little offensive but that’s fine I’ll get over it. Yeah.

Andrew – Totally. Um, you’re like yeah this pastor is really good manipulating Everybody What’s that about?? Ah, um, yes.

Josh – There’s a game called Diplomacy which is essentially you just try to take over the world but you try to talk your way into taking over the world. Ah, and I have a friend that will not will not play at this again because I broke his trust but you’re like dude it had to happen at some point like someone has to win and the only way someone wins.

Andrew – Ah, oh no, no.

Josh – Is someone’s going to backstep the other and I’m not going to let you do it and I’m sorry you moved all your people off your flank and trusted me as you noticed I didn’t move my people off my flank.

Andrew – Um, ah, that’s funny. Josh right? right? You remember? Okay, None more tangent before we I shifted back to you. But yeah, comfort’s my big one. But you remember that game murder in the dark that we would play is like a youth game. Okay, so the none time I ever played that I was a resident assistant in ah, a in college and we had like a pretty big group and we’re at this like really cool outdoor camping spot staying there overnight as a team.

Josh – Oh yeah.

Andrew – And we had None murders me it ended up being me and and my boss we were both murders and we like wheeled and dealed and got down to the very end and it was like us and like None or 3 other people. Um, but like I I decided that instead of sharing the glory. Um I wanted to be the only murderer left. So so I I killed pete in that round to throw everybody off my scent.

Josh – No way.

Andrew – And he was like so he was so mad. He’s never let it go and if I talked to him today. He’d still be mad about it and he’d probably never play that a game again with me but I but I did win I won the whole thing I’m like Pete I couldn’t share the glory man.

Josh – That’s fair. That’s fair.

Josh – And during that phase of the game. Don’t you get isn’t all the murders like awake at the same time so he watched you do it.

Andrew – And to be just be ah awesome. Yes, yes, so in that round in that round. No we were going and we were like working together and like he got None guy and then right after he got him. It was like only pete and me and None other person left and ah and so right after Pete grabbed the elbow of that guy to you know metaphorically murder him I reached out and grabbed Pete’s elbow and the look across his face was just like utter shock of like what just happened.

Josh – Yeah.

Josh – Okay, yeah, yeah, exactly like like what did it? What’s that from Shakespeare E Two Brutus or ah.

Andrew – Ah, ah, but yeah, you know I’m like I’m gonna I’m gonna win this thing. Yeah yeah, a 2 Yeah, exactly yeah, exactly hey man when you’re playing a game of murder.

Josh – Not you as well Brutus or whatever it actually means yeah like that’s that was it is like are you really? I personally I would have probably blown up the game if that happened to me.

Andrew – Yeah, ah the whole rule though is once you’re dead. You can’t say a word until the game is done So ah dude. Yeah, anyway, that’s that right right? ah.

Josh – Oh don’t even care won’t even care I’m blowing up the game I’m like you would play by the rules and that’s not okay, but that leads to my emotional needs and.

Andrew – Hey Okay, yeah, yeah, what’s your what’s your big need or the one That’s so.

Josh – 1 of my high ones is security Andrew and that is not a secure position of relationship if your friends are trying to kill you ah be it pure that that free from fear of harm is important for me and the second that I don’t have that in relationship. My.

Andrew – And that’s funny. That’s funny right right? with Elbow pinches Great right.

Josh – My walls go up very fast. Um and probably go on the offensive pretty quickly right? after that. Um, but I think to some extent like all of these I can see a need for all these and and this is work that I’ve actually been doing for a handful of of weeks now. Um, it’s It’s funny how kind of things overlap on different groups that I’m all part of like I’m in a coaching group that has been talking about this for a while but um, like I can see a lot of these already but a lot of these like already naturally come to me so I don’t actually recognize them as. As needs because the needs have always been fulfilled like attention like I have a personality just garners attention most of the time. So I get attention. Um, and when I don’t I Probably you know, do something to gain. It is my personality. Um, but in like. In like an undercurrent way because I know attention seekers are bad. So like you kind of like figure out how to get it without approval kind of naturally it comes appreciation. Yeah,, that’s one that like I think you’re supposed to need it. Um, but I think it comes back to like. Those those feelings of like it’s wrong to need the praise for what you’ve done. Um, so I don’t know if I’ve trained my brain out of it or something like that. But it’s not something that I’m good at receiving like I when I do something good I know that it’s good.

Andrew – And.

Andrew – He he.

Josh – Like I’m pretty logical or even kill like I don’t I don’t need the approval to know that something’s good I’m actually like dumbfounded at times when I know it’s good and like other people don’t think it is. You’re like wait a second what? Ah like all.

Andrew – Think.

Josh – All the metrics say that it’s good I’m I’m really confused right now. Um, yeah, acceptance is another one up there as well like I don’t know if I told this story in the podcast or or if I was talking with my coaching group but um, like I remember as ah as a child. Um.

Andrew – Right.

Andrew – Stiffening.

Josh – Ah, being in a new school I was probably like third fourth grade ish and feeling like you weren’t accepted but not, you know at that age you can’t put language to it or at least I could and wasn’t emotionally smart enough. Um, but I remember like it was like right before we were going to move. We’re like doing some I don’t know if it’s gym class or just some stupid thing we were doing. As a class where like running around the playground and I remember a group of kids inviting me like oh you should run with us and you’re like whoa. That’s cool like it’s this thing of like I didn’t think I would be accepted and I got accepted into this place and that’s been a trait. You know all through middle school high school. Um I found to get acceptance and in more manipulative or destructive ways that weren’t actually helpful to acceptance rather than just you know assuming like I remember even being when I was working for Apple. They were throwing a party and they invited everybody to the party and I remember thinking to myself. Ah, they were just being kind like I wasn’t actually invited to the party. You know those types of things were like you’re you’re fighting against the need of acceptance. You’re like well I’m just not accepted and but the reality is like very I find it very rarely are you not accepted to to an environment like just.

Andrew – And who yeah.

Andrew – Who yeah.

Josh – Had seen it in. You know my adult life and even if you weren’t necessarily invited into those areas you showing up into those areas. Most people aren’t going to bat an eye. They’re going to accept you in those things. Anyways, you know for those that may be sitting there thinking like yeah I know they invited but I’m not really invited.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – You are just go you’ll you’ll enjoy yourself. Um, yeah, so probably for me acceptance and security are big ones. Not comfort so much because I don’t like romance novels like Andrew does so not young.

Andrew – Oh.

Josh – Curling up on ah on a there was a conversation at work recently where I came remember what they’re Called. They’re called like comfort pods or something like that. They’re essentially just a big blanket like a sealed blanket that you like crawl into like a sleeping bag. Um, and. Making fun of them because you’re like really, you’re You’re a grown adult. My response was there’s a lot of mother woundmbs mother wounds that have not been doneught with and this is why we need these little comfort things to to self-comfort yourself because you didn’t find it in relationship. Um.

Andrew – Um, sleep.

Andrew – Ah, yeah.

Josh – But I think it’s a big need and in society today where we don’t see it. Encouragement is one of those that like I don’t think people feel encouraged that often. But at the same time like I feel like there’s encouragement everywhere. People are encouraging whether it’s true or not so for me, it’s disingenuous and encouragement.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – A.

Josh – Like you’re just throwing shit out there and say man you’re such a great whatever and you’re like what what do you base that off of like you made a merit statement and like there’s no statistics that bank up that merits Now you’re just lying to them like use encouragement in good ways and see say true things.

Andrew – None yeah, right. And. Yeah, encouragement in real ways is like deeply impactful. You know, but it comes usually out of real relationship at some level or like yeah or a real experience. That’s like wow and even just trust like.

Josh – If you’re going to encourage somebody. But yeah, yeah.

Andrew – I Or respect like I respect the person in opinion this is coming from you know and and I know they were genuine. You know that’s when it matters a lot versus that like okay, go around the room. Everybody say something really nice when you’re forced to like that’s different. You know and it’s not. It’s not the same.

Josh – Oh yeah.

Josh – Yeah.

Andrew – Yeah man for sure for sure.

Josh – Um, yeah, so let’s let’s keep going as we kind of think we covered it. But how do you feel sharing those needs with somebody else.

Andrew – Yeah I yeah, you know I’m getting better at sharing my needs with people. Um, but but it’s not my natural you know out of that none question would you rather? um. Share love or or receive and you and I both have said like no, it’s rather give I’d rather be the giver for a lot of reasons. Um in that same way it’s it’s not easy or natural for me to say hey I really need x you know I really need time today to just. Get away and do something fun I really need time to whatever or you know it’s it’s harder for me to share my needs. but um but I know that about myself and and I’m trying to trying to get better at it is my my answer I guess like working on it because I know. I’m not great at sharing my needs with other people and I’m pretty quick to just be the doer instead of saying hey could you help out or do it. You know that type of thing. So yeah man, what about you? do you are you good at sharing your needs with other people. Oh right? As you coughed.

Josh – Yeah, you.

Josh – Done. Yeah. Um, sorry I coughed. Um, um, no, not ah and and it’s I find it awkward to do um.

Andrew – Sorry.

Andrew – Nope.

Josh – I Think it’s easier to do in the in past tense than it is like actively so like when someone does it for you I find it a lot easier to be like hey. Thanks Thanks for doing that that that meant a lot that meant a lot like um, you know you’re showing you love me I appreciate that like that’s easier than like hey this is where I’m at right now like. Need to know that this relationship’s secure even though we’re fighting like I need to know that we’re gonna work this out like you’re gonna you know you want to make it work as much as I want to make it work. Um, Um, yeah, I’m trying to think of like examples as it comes Up. Um.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – You know I think something that would probably be really helpful is like you know if you know those listening if if you have a group of friends like bring up this list and just share it from the perspective like hey which ones really like stand out to you of things that you need and then you can kind of turn it.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – You know the follow-up question or sense. It would be like how can I show that to you? Um I think it can be powerful like I was talking to a friend of mine about this list and um, one of his um, ah affection is is one of his is big.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Andrew – So yeah.

Josh – Um, shows you care things and you know he was sharing this with with the kind of people he works with and you know now the simple like hand on the shoulder means the world to him that he wouldn’t have known he needed before but because they kind of went through that exercise you know.

Andrew – Yet.

Josh – Now Everyone has a good understanding of like hey here’s the things that they need I mean these are and these are God given needs like don’t don’t feel selfish don’t feel um, ah, less than because you need something from somebody else like fight those things because. Like needs have to be met on both sides of a relationship for the relationship to be healthy and and and thriving and I think oftentimes. Um, we’re We’re so focused on protecting ourselves and giving other people things that we think they need that we don’t have these types of conversations.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – And it keeps us at a distance to some extent in relationship like think of it this way like say you know even from our perspective of like you know, giving needs or giving love to other people. Um, what if we’re giving the wrong type of love like.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Um, we’re trying to give approval or we’re trying to give attention like dude I need you to stop like you’re you’re overbearing. You’re always there like what is going on and you know what they actually needed was some encouragement or are they needed some acceptance just knowing that you’re gonna you’re in um, ah love them on conditional and conditionally.

Andrew – In yeah.

Josh – What they’re good and they’re bad. Um, you’re just showing love in the wrong ways to them and I I think these are just good conversations to have with people. Um, you know Andrew and I having this conversation I now know like Andrew likes to be comforted I can’t touch him in appropriate ways.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – I can’t touch them in inappropriate ways either for that matter because you know we do live at a distance but with my words and with my feelings I can’t show comfort to Andrew and I think the other here’s the other big thing too and I think I talked about this on the podcast at some point. But like if you’re not in touch with your needs and how you.

Andrew – Um, right, right? right.

Josh – Experience like all 10 of these acceptance affection appreciation approval attention comfort encouragement respect security and support. It’s gonna be really hard for you identify these and other people as well. So like we all have these needs at at varying levels. So it’s worth tapping into how you feel.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – That need being met so you know yeah when someone else has that need you’re better at at meeting that need for them I think we we missed that as well. But yeah, how do I feel about sharing these deeds more comfortable than ever but still not great.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s that’s a perfect answer and I would say the same for me the same for me and you know like yeah if your friend is sharing a response to this maybe another good follow up question would be like how could I how could I help. Figure out when you need to feel more comfort or when you need to feel respect or encouragement or security or you know that whole list friend or spouse or or whatever even somebody work with that. You have a solid relationship with it’s important to to respect people well and and show them you care. Not just because you’re trying to get something from that relationship because you care about them genuinely person. Um, and John John 1334 says a new commandment I give to you that you love None another just as eyes have loved you. You also are to love None another and that was Jesus talking.

Josh – Yeah, no nope.

Andrew – You know like love one another just as I have loved you. He was talking to his disciples. He wasn’t talking to to a crowd of thousands of people that didn’t really know him but were fired up to listen to him like he was talking to his people his close circle you know of disciples like.

Josh – And.

Josh – Yeah, yeah.

Andrew – No love others as I have loved you. That’s what you’re supposed to do like That’s what we’re here for this is how you’re supposed to live. Um, so it’s a high bar you know a high bar that was set and we can read what Jesus said to his disciples and interpret as it as that’s what. He expects from us too because that’s that’s the truth you know so we need to genuinely love None another and man I just I think in all of this I think motives matter a lot like I hinted at this a minute ago. But if you’re.

Josh – Yeah, oh.

Andrew – If you’re trying to show somebody that they’re accepted or appreciated or given them attention or comfort or respect so that you can get something from them. Um, you’re not doing it right? like that’s that’s missing the mark. It’s like.

Josh – Um, you know.

Andrew – And and maybe if you find yourself listening to this and you’re like yeah anytime I give somebody affection or approval or comfort or security or support. It. So I can get something from them. First of all, it’s good. You can admit that secondly pray about it. Like god I just realized this thing or maybe your holy spirit revealed this to me that I that I only give these things to others because I want something from them. Um, then just say like god would you change my heart and and help me. Not live that way would you help me live so that I can give other people dignity and love genuinely because they’re made in your image and because they’re valuable not because I can get them to do something for me or give me something or whatever. Um, because Christ wasn’t.

Josh – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Yeah, um.

Andrew – Loving on his disciples showing them genuine love and respect because he wanted them to go and build the church like no I wasn’t it. It was because they were made in the image of God and he’s like I’m gonna train and equip you with how you should live and what you should know so that you can be Kingdom bringers in this world.

Josh – Um, yeah.

Andrew – You know? um, but it’s because you’re people. It’s because you’re made in God’s Image. It’s it’s not because you are the most special group of people ever. It’s just because you’re made in God’s Image. So you have inherent value. So Anyway, I’ll get off my soapbox but just wanted to to mention that before we. Continue on I know we only have a couple minutes left before you got a bounce a friend.

Josh – Yeah, no, that’s great and I think too like it’s either the next verse after that or a little bit later but Jesus continues to say you know this is where he famously says you, you’ll they’ll know that you’re my disciples if you love one another which I think is a.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Is a pretty powerful statement and I think this is where a lot of christians I don’t remember who I heard this directly from I wish I did because I’d love to give him credit but it’s a statement that man. It’s stuck with me and it’s changed my perspective of how we live this this life with Jesus. Um.

Andrew – And e.

Josh – More than probably any any statement in the last ten years but the statement was you know there should be nobody on this planet better at relationship than christians we should be relational experts. Um, and I think it’s so true like so much of what Jesus has asked us to do. Is found inside a relationship so much of of our reliance on Christ is found in in building relationship with him like there should be nobody on this planet that does conflict better There should be nobody on this planet that that meets needs better. There should be nobody on this planet that shares our needs better There should be nobody.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – This planet that encourages better. There should be nobody on this planet. Um that that pushes people forward and spurs them on for for greater things. There should be no people on this planet better at at seeing the potential inside of people even when most of the world doesn’t see the potential right? like we should be those people and.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – And we should be known essentially here’s what Jesus saying like we should be known by that like the way that you guys love each other should be your greatest attribute and we’re not talking like I don’t know where the disconnect is with that statement but I just feel like in the American Church we miss it somewhere along the way like. It’s all service orientented and relationships twoway and I think we missed that I think we can try to love people without humility and without trust and that that doesn’t foster relationship right or humility and trust are are cornerstones to or to relationship and healthy relationship. Um.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Like I think that’s the piece like we even talked as as a leadership team for for hill city recently of just about this this idea of like you know we use this terminology community on a regular basis. We even use the terminology relationship. You know what we do we call relational discipleship and and even in the midst of that like. So many people have different definitions to those words that we should stop using those stop using those words or define them every time we use them. So like when we use the word discippleship we define it so we say well you know we’re we’re trying to make disciples and what we mean by disciples is. Yeah, Matthew for None Jesus calls Simon Peter He says come follow me and I’ll make you fishers a men. So the way that we you know define disciple is someone that knows and follows Jesus being changed by Jesus and on mission with Jesus excuse me I’m gonna burt. Um, yeah.

Andrew – Burp break. Yeah yep.

Josh – But in relationship we don’t do a good job or in Community We don’t do a good job of defining it on a regular basis. So. That’s you know that’s the kind of Commitment. We’ve made to each other is when we talk about it. We’re going to define it every time So when I say hey we’re we’re trying to build a community here when I when I say Community I mean we’re we’re trying to build a a a. Ah, group of people that trust each other we’re trying to build a group of people that are vulnerable and honest, we’re trying to build a people that are that are humble and and take ownership of their action trying to be ah build a group of people that when they have conflict they choose to deal with it because the relationship matters to them like like that’s the type of of Community. We’re trying to build and.

Andrew – Um, Yeah. Can hit.

Josh – You know for us I think that’s going to be a huge win because everyone has different definitions and we want to make sure you have skin in the game and you know our definition I think asks you to have skin in the game because it’s not easy. It’s going to scare some people off that’s fine. But when you get to a place where it’s super attractive like like Jesus is saying here in John thirteen like. They’re going to know your mind because of how you love each other that’s attractive and when you get to that place. We were going to like I don’t exactly know what’s going on here with your group of people but like I want in like I want what? what you have like yeah we have we have men’s and women’s groups running right now for the summer and we’re taking a break for a normal kind of structure. And you know we have we have some non-believers showing up to these groups because of exactly that they’re like I just there’s some people in here that love me really well and I love them and um, they asked me to come so I’m going to come and.

Andrew – Um, nice, yeah, nice.

Josh – You know and it’s you you get to the place as you walk with Jesus and the sanctification in your own heart and he’s changed enough character about you that you know evangelism becomes really easy because it’s not evanngelism and anymore it’s it’s just I’m just sharing my life. Um, and I look at their life and like man I could show you a better way. Um, not because of anything I’ve done or because I’m great or awesome, but because of what Jesus did one on the cross but None as you continue to shape and mold me you can experience the same thing I experience and when life gets hard. You can still stand strong and have hope like. That becomes more easy for you. Ah in my experience is as you grow in your relationship in depth in relationship relationship with Jesus and what it means to love None another? Well um, you need you grow those things these these tasks you know these things that felt like chores in the past as a christian and they don’t feel like chores anymore. It’s a delight and it’s excitement. We get to do this and be a part of this and I don’t say that like ooh look at us I’m so awesome I say that of like hey you can have the same thing like I believe it and if you’re in if you’re in Colorado springs and you’re listening to this and and you want to be a part of a community like trying to build this look us up hillcity Dot Church

Andrew – Yeah, you.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Ah, reach out to me directly if if we know each other um but don’t do it on Facebook because I’m not on there and I just got on there recently because it says it like closing my account or something like that. So I logged in and there’s a lot of messages in there that I haven’t responded to so sorry I don’t don’t message me there I’m I’m not gonna see it. Um.

Andrew – How now. Oh no, That’s funny.

Josh – But you can message be other places. But yeah, that’s my soapbox andrew for you I do have to run I’m not going to be a minute late to this meeting but ah Andrew my buddy my brother my friend I love you my friend next week is going to feel really mushy and Touchy Feeley

Andrew – Um, love it. Men? Yep Yep yeah. Um, yep, yep Yep! um.

Josh – Um, there isn’t really any questions we’re going to be answering. We’re really just going to be affirming each other so you get to witness ah that and I’ll be honest with you that feels exposing and that feels weird. And that feels way too touchy feelly for me. But I’m going to dive in and I’m gonna affirm Andrew the best I possibly can there. We go.

Andrew – We’re gonna leave it through it. Okay, we’re gonna lean into it I Love you man. Thanks for doing this and I’ll see you soon.

Josh – Yeah, thanks for listening to everyone that has we do greatly appreciate it remember check out Duwell this she’s life podcast dot com for Slash Duwell as always. It’s good to talk to you guys i’tnna say good to hear from you but I just heard from Android hear from you guys. We’ll see later.

Andrew – Ah, peace.

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