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The Sheep and Goats
Episode No. 43

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'” As we walk with Jesus, He changes and shapes our hearts and lives. We start to live less selfish lives for more selfless lives. It isn’t about what I could do on my own, but what Jesus does through me.

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Verses – Matthew 25:31–46.
Verses – James 4:17.


Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name’s Josh. 

Andrew: Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast, Josh. Hi, I’m man. Hey Andrew podcast. We are back at it, dude. I’m good. I’m good. Yeah, I’m a dude. I’m hoping my brain isn’t mush. As I, as you know, I just came off of a final interview, which I was excited about and I’m sitting here, like, I hope I can offer you something of value.

So. Listener. If you hear me offer anything of value, just give credit to God because my brain feels mushy. Um, Josh, how you doing man? 

Josh: Doing well. Can’t complain. The snow is melting. Um, so I just bought a new drone last week. Well, Same as the week before, but I finally got here last week. I had two days to fly it.

Um, but I don’t have one battery, so you can’t fly it for that long. And then it takes for a charge with the big old things. Right. And then we got hit with snow. So I had plans to like go to the mountains and fly this thing. 

Andrew: Like, cause I, I saw like everybody got different amounts, but that you were supposed to get like five feet at one time or something like 60 inches or something crazy.

It’s crazy, man. 

Josh: We didn’t get anywhere close to that. It was less course. I don’t know. It’s hard. Cause snowdrifts are so bad. Like the wind was blowing. Oh yeah. Like my backyard probably had five foot drifts. Wow. In it, like my dog went to like. Go poop when he went missing. 

Andrew: Yeah. And he’s white too. So 

Josh: that’s funny, dirty white though.

I noticed this, anytime it snows and he’s like running through the snow, you’re like, Oh, here’s a dirty, bad, right.

But I’ll probably make this about, we got like six inches. Yeah. Make it about skin 

Andrew: six inches. He’s crazy wind. Yeah. Yeah. He is patchy. 

Josh: So my plan is now that it’s a nice out again today just to go fly this afternoon. Awesome. And then I want to go up in the mountains and fly drones. Um, But I’m learning this thing.

Like it’s a, it’s an FPV drone, which is like, you see what it sees. It stands for. First person view, maybe I don’t know what the V stands for. Um, so you have goggles and all that kind of stuff. The thing Joad, you know, just under the legal limit of 90 miles an hour by the FAA. Um, but it has full, full manual and it’s like dummy proof for people that are getting an FPV.

Um, and I’ve always wanted to, but like FPV, you have to like make your own drone and like learn how to solder things. And it just seems like so much work. So it was glad that was very involved. Yeah. So I’m working to being able to fly this thing manually. That’s my goal in life right now. 

Andrew: That sounds pretty cool.

That that is going to be really cool. You’re going to have to send me a video, man. Cause that seems really intense and sweet. Yeah. Awesome dude. Well, I hope the snow melts quickly so you can actually get out of it. Do that this weekend. Yeah, man. Me 

Josh: too. But it’s your typical Colorado snow. Like it’s all sunny out and.

Yeah, all the snow from the concrete asphalt gone at this point. So, 

Andrew: yeah, dude, it’s, I’ll tell you what, uh, the last, like six days, uh, today’s gray and we had snow flurry this morning, but it’s all melted. It’s no big deal, but we have had like sunshine and I’ve got to spend like every bit of time that I can outside of been outside.

Um, and I swear it’s been like a breath of fresh air for my soul. Like I dude, I needed it. I needed winter to be done over here and we literally didn’t see the ground for a month and a half because we kept getting snow storms after that 30 inch blizzard we got, um, so I’ve been super ready and praise the Lord.

It is here. There are flowers coming up. My allergies are acting up. Ice neighbors, bees are going crazy. My chickens are happy. Like, dude, it is spring and God is good to change the seasons. 

Josh: I’ve needed a picture or a video, maybe your wife posts. And I was like, Oh, it’s like, you have better weather in Pennsylvania than we do here.

Andrew: Yeah. For now, for now. Yeah. You guys get sunshine more, but you know, we have our days, we have our days. 

Josh: Yeah, that’s true. Totally man. Doing this parable series. Hey, yo, I’m sorry. I was just looking at my levels as we said that really loud to make sure they’re okay. If you listen to the last episode, I’m sorry, my microphone.

This is my own fault. I turns up too hot. So. And was coming in hot, but we’re doing these parables. Um, we’ve talked, man. What are the parables we’ve we’ve talked about the lost coin, the lost son, the tower, the silence, the, uh, good Samaritan. 

Andrew: Something else. Awesome. Anyway, I think we did the two sons and then we, the mustard seed, dude, we’ve been, we’re like seven or eight in, at this point.

It’s awesome. And we have some more to go still, but you know, it’s 

Josh: been good. Yeah. So if you had a chance and this your first one kind of listening in, uh, definitely go back. Um, before that we, we went through a series of how to love one another better, um, and went through first Corinthians 13 and definitely check out those episodes as well.

Um, but as we go through the parables here, um, we don’t read the whole parable. And the main reason for that is we want you to spend time with Jesus. Um, and we want you to get through reading of his word in relationship with him. Um, so we think that’s more important than us. We’re reading a word for it so we can all be on the same page, but we give you a, just a brief overview.

So at least as podcasts makes sense, but you can always pause this podcast. Go spend some time with Jesus reading, Matthew chapter 25 verses the end of 25, which is like 30 through 46 50. Something like that is where we’ll be. Okay. But yeah, I guess we can dive, we can dive into this on Andrew. Yeah. 

Andrew: Mean, are we, I mean, you’re coming at it, fire and brimstone, right.

That’s where we’re going with this thing. It’s going to be good. 

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. More, more brimstone than fire brimstone. Really? Yeah. It just feels like brim, some really gets in there and really gets your attention. 

Andrew: I don’t even know what brimstone is, but I think it probably smells like sulfur and is really intense.

Uh, so. Let’s get intense, man. I’m ready. If 

Josh: you’re ready. I gotta Google this real. No one else can see this. What the heck? There’s no, 

Andrew: what is brimstone? Is that what you’re Googling? 

Josh: Yeah. Cause all that’s coming up or like video game pictures. I was picturing like brimstone to be kind of like asteroids on fire kind of thing.


Andrew: through the sky. Yes. Yes, that sounds 

Josh: let’s go with that. And if that’s not true, then let us know. But yeah. Um, fire is brimstone make 

Andrew: sense, brain stone and an archaic term is synonymous with sulfur. And in folks were odor of sulfur dioxide. Given off by lightning strikes. Lightening was understood as 

Josh: defined or brimstone.

Brim Steven saying it wrong. Oh, okay. It wrong this whole time. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So sulfur and fire that as associated with flight 

Josh: over was like a physical thing. Yes, I think it is again cast today. 

Andrew: Yes, exactly. Welcome to science. One Oh one sheep and goats. Uh, 

Josh: Andrew and Josh 

Andrew: today. We’re talking sulfur anyway, man.

Back to back to the point, let’s get intense with brimstone and fire, you know, 

Josh: defines brimstone as sulfur, especially considered as a component of torments of hell in Christianity. Torment 

Andrew: of hell dang man. That’s intense. Okay. 

Josh: We’re gonna bring you some brimstone today.

Uh, so here’s kind of the retelling of the sheep and the goats. Um, as simply as we possibly can, but essentially here’s the story. Um, and some argue this isn’t a parable, it’s just something Jesus said, but we’re going to treat it as a parable because why not? Uh, but Jesus essentially has all the nations.

That’s a, it’s a point of judgment when this judgment shows up, we’ll get into you. But, um, it’s a point of judgment. Um, we have the sheep and the goats, um, those on his right are the sheep. And those on the left are the Scouts. I don’t know if this is where the left and the right comes from. If like they’re like Impala, like conservatives were like, Oh yeah, let’s go with this first.

Cause the left are evil and they’re like, goats. Right. Who knows? We won’t put a, yeah, we won’t put anything on that. So the King separates the two East or the East and the West, the left, when the right, um, he says those, uh, on the right, you fed me. Um, you gave me a drink when I was homeless. He gave me a room.

Um, when I was shivering, you clothed through and I was sick. You visited me when I was in prison. You came to see me. Um, and then they’re like, what, what are you talking about? When did we do any of those things? God. And they said, well, when you did any of these things, for the least of these, you didn’t for me.

And then he looks at those on his left and he goes to the same list, but all in the opposite. So when I was hungry, you didn’t give me any food. When I was thirsty, you gave nothing to drink. When I was homeless, you gave me no bed. When I was shivering, you gave me no clothes. When I was sick and in prison, you never visited me.

And they said, what are you talking about? When do we ever see you. And he says one day, whatever you didn’t do for the least of these brothers of mine, you didn’t do for me now away from me for, I never knew you. Um, I don’t know if that’s how my skin putting verses together. Uh, he said, and truly I tell you whatever you did not do for the least of these, you didn’t undo for me, then they will go away into eternal punishment and the righteousness to eternal life.

Um, but that’s kind of the gist of the story. That’s 

Andrew: a good Jewish and I do, you know, I think you did. Yeah. That’s a good, just thanks for the recap, man. Um, I don’t think you missed anything. I mean, it is like, this is easy to read as, as just fire and brimstone and uh, we’re we were joking about it, but that might be where we’re at.

I don’t know. We’ll see. Um, but yeah, the only thing I would add to that is just that. After after God pronounces kind of judgment of, you know, the sheep and the goats separating left and right, um, depart from me, cursed ones into eternal fire, you know, that’s been prepared for you and the devil and his angels are now prepared for the devil and his angels it’s intense, but then he goes on and, and.

Jesus clarifies. Um, the Y it’s not like this, uh, thing. He’s just like, you guys are bad. You guys are good. Uh, he explains it like, Hey, like when I was hungry, you didn’t give me any food. When I was sick, you didn’t care for me. When I was in prison, you didn’t visit me when I was thirsty. You didn’t give me water, you know, like really driving home the Y um, Which is cool, uh, which is good context.

Um, but yeah, man, it’s a, it is an intense set of verses because it’s the one thing that my, I guess my first take is it’s the one thing that we, we talk a lot and a lot about love and the love of God. Um, and our, uh, worship songs have a lot to do about God’s love and his relentless pursuit. And to me, I love thinking about that side of God.

I love, uh, dwelling in that. Um, I love trying to, I’m a fan of trying to model my life more after that. Um, but the other side, like another attribute of God is perfect judgment and. And that’s not as fun to talk about or to think about or to pray or to, I don’t know, dwell on. Um, but that is an attribute of God.

And I think. At a minimum, whether, you know, we were talking before this, whether this is pre-trip post-trip midrib whatever, like reality is one attribute of God is that he is perfect in judgment and that will come about one day. Um, so I think this story Jesus told, or this kind of pronouncement, he told whether it’s a parable or, or not, um, helps describe, uh, How God judges, I guess so.

Yeah. What are your first thoughts? I know you retold it. So I guess your second thoughts, but what are those? 

Josh: Yeah. And, and you listening, you, you’ve probably heard these verses before. They’re, they’re quoted a lot. Um,

I think there’s a lot of things that go into it. Um, we’ll just say this at the, at the forefront, just so we’re all on the same page, like the meaning of this parable. And even if it’s a parable is debated among theologians. Um, so it could go into your different ways. We could completely get it wrong as we talk into this.

Um, but. Yeah, take it with a grain of salt. Um, if you take it at face value, uh, without context of, of the greater story of the gospel, um, it’s, if you take care of the least of these that you get into heaven, if you don’t take care of the least of these, you’re going hell eternal separation from God, 

Andrew: right?

Josh: But the problem is that doesn’t align with the rest of scripture. Um, you know, we live in a grace based relationship where Jesus went to the cross for the forgiveness of our sins and to restore relationship, um, with God, the father, um, because of that, it’s hard for us to be like, well, Then now I’m just confused, right?

Like, it sounds like that’s what he’s talking about, but I don’t understand, um, if I’m a follower of Jesus, but I’m not doing all these things well, am I going to go to hell? No, you’re not right. Jesus. Jesus told us because of his sacrifice. God will never forsake you in our leave. You, um, once you’ve come to knowledge of him, Um, and committed, you know, recognize the need of a savior, recognize Jesus, who he said he wasn’t did what he said he was gonna do.

Um, so if that’s where you’re sitting, like that’s not what these verses are about. Um, now there’s a lot of like background that you could dig into of like, why was it written this way and so on and so forth? I don’t, I don’t know how helpful any of that is. I think it’s just going to confuse everybody, but I will say this, um, Matthew’s writings.

Um, primarily written to Jews, um, Often take the tactic of surprise, right? Like we see, um, at the wedding banquet, um, you know, the, the guy that wasn’t dressed properly thrown out of me kicked out. Um, we, we see, um, we covered these verses a little while ago, or we maybe briefly touched on, but we covered a different parable that talked about the same idea of the 10 virgins and like not being prepared.

Right. And then, you know, being kicked out. Um, so there’s this idea of like, Uh, this surprise judgment that shows up. Um, and I think, I think because it’s primary audience were Jews, I think it’s, I think he’s just trying to get their attention of like, there’s something new that’s been established. You’ve got to pay attention to that with something new or you’re going to be thrown into judgment.

And judge was a big deal for the Jews. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think there’s that piece of it too, that you’ve got to kind of bring into the conversation. Um, and we’re seeing the same thing here, right? It’s this, if you’re not taking it, at least to these loving and least of these, you’re going to hell. Um, and I think.

Man, it’s so hard. So you have the social justice Christians out there that take these verses and run with them, right? Like this is the way of Christianity. And if you’re not doing these things, you’re going to hell. Um, I’d argue the century. I’m sorry. That’s not, that’s not the gospel. That’s not what Jesus sacrifices for.

You’re you’re 100% wrong. Um, and when you make the jump to that, I think you end up in scary waters. Um, I guess, I guess we could take a couple steps back and I’ll just lay it out from that perspective. Sorry. No, no, no. 

Andrew: This is good, man. This is good. Yeah. 

Josh: Um, I would equate these verses back to John 15. Um, when Jesus says, if you abide in me and all I bought in you you’ll bear much fruit.

And apart from me, you can do nothing. All those pushed a bunch of verses together from John 15. But, um, so I would argue as followers of Jesus. Um, if you’re in relationship with Jesus, you’ve been forgiven by Jesus. Um, you’re walking with Jesus, then you’re naturally going to take care of the least of these.

It’s going to matter to you. Um, but it’s a by-product of your relationship with Jesus or an overflow out of your relationship with Jesus, um, compared to those that don’t or necessary, or, you know, are going to be more selfish self-focused um, they have a matured in their relationship with Jesus, so it’s all about them.

And when it’s all about you, you’re not going to do things for those around you. You don’t even see the need. Of people around you. Um, so there’s that side of it too. Um, and that’s probably where I would translate these or, uh, commentate on these verses of, of what it’s meaning. Um, it’s really just an outflow of an inward journey with Jesus and heart.

It’s the same thing we talked about the first Corinthians verses and love loving one another. Um, like that’s an outflow, your relationship with Jesus now. The problem you’re going to run into is when you skip that step and it’s wives have to have to care about the least of these. I have to focus on those that are in prison.

I have to focus on the homeless. I have to do all of these things right. When we live in that faith, um, you’re, you’re gonna come up short. 

Andrew: It’s do, do, do based, right? It’s like you have a, you have your chest and your legs. Yeah. Yeah. Do do, do do do no, but I mean, it’s, you have a checklist and you can say, okay, am I good?

Am I good Christian this week? Or am I not? Um, and it’s, it’s not, uh, you know, man, you’ve, you’ve reminded me of this often of like we are in a grace filled relationship with Christ and the goal of Christian Christianity. Isn’t just to make you. Perfectly sinless. That’s not the goal. It’s to make you perfectly in relationship with God over time.

And I say perfectly because that’s when you’re dead and when you’re in relationship with God, uh, after death, but. You can get more and more close in relationship with the Lord and in God’s will, while you’re alive. I believe sin is always going to be a part of that equation. Some people don’t. But anyway, all that to say, um, yeah, I think you could read this and say, that’s my checklist.

Did I take care of the thirsty? Did I give them water? Did I. Uh, invite the stranger in and I closed them, uh, the naked. Did I go and visit those in prison? You know, you can make it a checklist, but behind the 

Josh: list. Yeah, exactly. And I think the problem with the checklist is. Does that mean? If I saw a homeless person, I didn’t give them a bed one time, but I did it for the thousand.

Other times that I saw homeless people. Am I going to LDL? Did I not live up to the standard? Um, and we would argue, yeah, you didn’t live up to the standard. Like Jesus is perfect and Holy that’s the standard. And if you don’t meet the standard and any sin enters the picture, there’s separation, um, you need forgiveness.

Uh, so yeah, you’re screwed. So now we look at these verses and say, well, Man, that means everybody’s screwed. Like I saw a lot of people inside of the road and I didn’t stop for any of them. I just act like I didn’t see them and I kept moving or I saw them and I winked at them or I waved at them just to show some acknowledgement, but I didn’t give them a bed to sleep in.

Yeah. I’m putting clothes on him. You know, that woman that was running naked through the streets. I didn’t try to give her my shirt. I just let her run naked. Um, I didn’t want to touch her. Uh, just kidding.

It’s so funny. Um, Uh, friends in high school would find out that I was a Virgin and that I had no intention on not being one and SaaS married. Right. And they’d be like, so you’re telling, I might’ve told this already on the podcast. I don’t remember, but I don’t think so. I’m gonna say so you’re telling me if you walked into your room and there was a naked chick, just all spread out, laying on your bed, you wouldn’t have sex with her.

You’re like, no 100% I would, but that’s never going to happen. 

Andrew: Uh, you’re like, listen, I, I am in no danger of this happening. Okay. We’re here. We’re here. We’re there. That temptation you’re like, yeah, obviously I’m a person. I don’t know what kind of 

Josh: love that you’re 

Andrew: like, how many times has that happen to you?

Colloid cliff, whatever your name is, you know, uh, terror. 

Josh: So my friends’ names in high school, Floyd and cliff. 

Andrew: Absolutely. Yeah, man, dude. Oh, you keep going. And then I want to, I was reminded of a Bible verse that I Googled while you were talking and I want to connect it to you, but you go ahead. 

Josh: Google skills.

Yeah. So I think that’s where the struggle becomes is you’re not going to live up to that standard. And this is why Jesus went to the cross, right? Like, this is why Jesus did what he said he was going to do. And he died in your place taking on your sins. And then he conquered death three days later. So you could find forgiveness and restored relationship with God.

The father. Hello through sanctification and through the process of you just walking with him and him changing you and molding you into who he’s called you to be, you’re going to be more and more like this person. Um, you’re going to love people better, whether they’re people, you know, or they’re strangers, um, you’re going to be more, um, inviting of those that you don’t know to come into your relational environments that you’ve created so they can come to know Jesus through them.

Um, you know, that’s just the natural position that, that we start to take. It was even richer in Christ. The problem, excuse me, in Christianity is we’d never mature that far. Like we come to salvation, we’re infants in the, in the faith, we’re still on, you know, mama’s milk. Um, and that’s, as far as we’ve gotten, we haven’t gotten to the solid food yet.

Um, in terms of how we live this kingdom, um, you know, here on earth before, you know, the King was fully established, um, and. And what ends up happening is we know that we should do more do better. Um, so we fake it until we make it right. Like we take that, that methodology. So instead of diving into my relationship with Jesus and focusing in on my relationship, Jesus, and let him start to mold and shape me through conversation, through prayer, through reading and his word and relationship and all those things.

When we practice Jesus habits. Um, instead of doing all of those things, we just jumped to the end. So we’re like, Oh, this is what good Christian is supposed to do. Let me just knock this list out. So I’m a good Christian. Um, and then it becomes a, then it becomes this like contest of like, who looks better as a Christian, um, inside the churches it’s Oh, Oh, look at so-and-so.

And so-and-so, they’re doing all the right things. Like they serve in children’s ministry every week. I saw them have like $600 cash in ones. Which I thought was strange, but he might be at a strip club during the week, but we don’t know, uh, in the offering back, like he really loves Jesus. Um, or like, did you hear about Sally and the sins that she’s committing this week?

Um, right. Like this becomes this weird game that we start to play rather than living in the grace in our relationship with Jesus. We, we start to. We’ll try to one up each other, just so I feel better about myself and my chances of getting into heaven than someone else’s chances of getting into heaven.

And that’s where that whole idea of like, if I’m just good enough, I’m gonna get into heaven. You’re like, no, that’s not the point. You’re never going to be good enough. That’s the point? I don’t know everything you say you’re not good enough. That’s just the reality. I’m not good enough. Andrew’s not good enough.

You’re not good enough. That’s okay. That’s why Jesus went to the cross, right? So you could be good enough through Christ rather than through, um, your own ability to do good. Yeah, because if the standard is you don’t miss anybody according to these verses, uh, any of these least to these, then, then you’re good.

But the reality is you probably already have. So now you’re screwed. Yeah. And does God grade on a curve? No, he, doesn’t sorry. Um, the only way we get into heaven is relationship with Jesus. The only way we could spend eternity with him, His relationship, Jesus, the only way we get to have hope and peace in this life is relationship with Jesus.

You know, as we focus in and dive into that, that’s where the source of all these things come. So I’d argue. That’s the point of these verses now, like we said, like I said, at the beginning of the podcast, um, These are, these are, you know, knowing no one defines these verses in the same way. Some take the stance of if you’re not doing these things, then yeah.

You’re not, you’re not going to find salvation. Are you 100% against them? Some argue this isn’t for the Christians, this isn’t for the church. The church has already been taken, but this isn’t final judgment. This is the judgment happens on earth, you know, during the. The great tribulation. And then, um, and then it might work that way.

Who knows? I would just argue, Hey, if you know, Jesus, your Lord and savior, um, your relationship with Jesus and that perspective, then you don’t have to worry about these verses you’re. You’re good. No worries here. Just focusing on that relationship and let it flourish and watch what Jesus does in you and through you.

And with those around you, especially with the least of these, as you walk with grizzly. 

Andrew: Totally, man. Let me. So as, as you were sharing that, um, which I agree with you on that, uh, that it is way more about the heart than the just actions behind it. Um, but let me throw a bit of a potential wrench into it and hopefully add a little bit of context.

So. As I was reading these verses. And as I was thinking about the, you know, you saw me naked and you didn’t close me, you saw me thirsty and it did it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you would have given me clothes, if you did probably put some thirsty, you didn’t give me water, you know, like you didn’t take the action you could have taken.

And in all of that, um, and not about me, but you know, these Bible verses, but, um, I was struck with the thought of James four 17, which says simply if anyone then knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sent for them. And. To me. I, you could probably read that and say it’s all works-based, but that’s never how I viewed this.

Um, because I think the key is that the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it’s sin for them. Um, I think that. You know, you go walking through downtown, Colorado Springs. I lived there for years, you know, and I know there’s tons of homeless folks around, well, if you went walking through downtown and you said, I’m going to do, I’m going to meet every need of all of the people that I see, you know, there’s way too many needs.

You couldn’t possibly do it. Um, but if you went through and said, God, if there’s anybody that. You specifically want me to minister to in some way, and you did that good. Then you’d be fallen in God’s will in that. And you wouldn’t be going in. Nively saying I’m going to fix everybody and everything. I’m going to check every box that I possibly can to be a super Christian.

You know, it’s, it’s not that it’s the heart of. Being open to meeting the needs, that God places in front of you and that God prompts you to meet. It’s your heart. It’s it’s. Did you do the actions that God prompted you to do, um, to serve others for his will? Um, or didn’t you, you felt the prompting, you knew it was what you wanted.

Um, but you didn’t do it that sin, you felt the prompting, you knew you could do the thing you could follow through and you did. That’s that’s glorifying to God, you know, and it’s, it’s not about the number of works or the type of works or, or whatever. It’s about the heart. Um, and I, that’s how I read James four 17 and that’s how I think it ties into this.

Um, hopefully that’s. Reasonably helpful. Um, and doesn’t go more in the term of, of works because I don’t think that’s the intent. 

Josh: Yeah, no, I don’t think so either. And the reality is like spiritualize, all of those elements, hungry, thirsty stranger, naked, sick and prison. Um, and you’re surrounded by those people everywhere.

Um, Like those don’t have to necessarily be physical attributes though. They definitely are. Um, those can be spiritual attributes, like they’re spiritually hungry. Um, they, they they’re chasing after everything, but Jesus, do I have an opportunity to introduce them relationally to Jesus, um, you know, Jesus of scripture.

Um, you know, they’re, they’re, uh, naked and exposed. Can I bring them into protection of the church family? Right. Like if we look at it from that perspective and all the relationship that could happen inside of that, like we’re constantly surrounded by people that are at least to these, um, whether society calls them least to these or not, it doesn’t really matter.

The reality is there, they are at least to these. So. If we look at where we’re at, just physically in space, you know, I live here in Colorado Springs, Andrew lives in, in Pennsylvania. Um, like there’s people all around us, whether they’re coworkers or neighbors or friends of friends, or however it plays out or friends themselves, um, like, however that ends up, uh, Sorry, I just got destroyed and just texting me in the middle of her podcast.

Sorry. I 

Andrew: thought I would be discreet. Okay. It wasn’t a screen.

Josh: Um, let’s figure it was my nephew. Again, my nephew has this bad tendency of texting me for my brother’s account. So I think it’s my brother. And then he’s like, Oh, I got you on go Josh. And you’re like, ah, stupid little kid.

My brother gets to read our conversations after the fact because where he works, he can’t have his phone with him building. Um, so he, he comes back to these long conversations between me and his 10 year old son. Um, and he’s just dying. He’s like, Oh my gosh. That’s great. One of those conversations just to take shots at Isaiah, um, is he tried to convince me that he never lived in Washington state, which no, we lived in Washington state.

You’re like dude, but he was convinced he didn’t so much convinced that he gave me a call to set me straight. But my brother’s reading all this and he’s just shaking his head and he’s like, Oh, that’s so funny. Um, he was young to his defense. He probably doesn’t remember any of it, but yeah. So from a spiritual perspective, like there’s all, there’s people all around us.

Um, that are hungry, thirsty they’re strangers that we should be inviting into a relationship with ourselves. So they have an opportunity to see our relationship with God. Um, you know, Nick naked, sick and imprisoned for sure that we have opportunity to bring the gospel hope. Um, the hope of Christ into all those pictures.

I’m like, that’s a, that’s an exciting thing, you know, last week, last week or the week before, um, I was at a client’s offices. And just talking with their employees about projects and whatnot, and, um, just watching just the things going on in people’s lives and hearing people’s stories. Um, and majority, I would assume don’t follow Christ in this office.

I don’t know. We never got that far, but, um, but there’s a level of like, uh, Lack of hope. And, um, what’s another, what’s the word, Andrew for like, like despair almost going day to day. Yeah. This is like zombies. What’s the word for it? 

Andrew: I dunno, zombie, just floating 

Josh: thinking on the other side, you’re like, Josh, it’s this word?

It’s chill out people. Yeah. Um, but yeah, like it’s just this, there’s this lack of lack of any life, um, lack of any purpose, lack of any meaning. Um, and it’s just, it’s heartbreaking, but, um, it also gave me great hope of like, man. Yeah, we want to usher in something new. That’s one of the reasons this podcast exists.

Like we want to be known as a place. This is where hope lives as the church. This is as followers of Jesus. And we have an opportunity to drastically change, not just Aternity and future life, but this life for these people where they could have purpose and meaning, uh, and, and passion again, about things that that’s what we’re really chasing.

Um, and I think it’s important to, um, To bring that into the lives of people around you. And if you’re sitting there saying, well, I don’t have many of those things I would push back and say, we’ll dig into your relationship with Jesus because you have access to those things. Uh, but so often we miss out on that stuff because we just don’t take the time to spend time with Jesus, to let him shape him all this, you know, he’s called us to be, um, and a big portion of that, of who he’s called us to be is, um, Opening those pathways of passion and purpose, um, you know, giving us a hope in the face of no matter what the circumstances is like, I would argue that’s fruit of a relationship with Jesus.

If you don’t have it, like go back to Jesus habits and dig into that relationship with Jesus and let the digital unlock so much hope that you can have in this life, um, that we miss out on, like, you know, I was going through old episodes. Earlier this week as we were working on the website stuff. But, um, one of the episodes when we talked about loving yourself, so we do like to.

Yeah, two week series, um, 34 and 35. I think something like that. Uh, if you want to go back there were called. It starts with you and it ends with you, I think is what the two, something like that. Um, but one of the statements that we made in there, I don’t matter if Andrew made it or I made it, but, um, it was, you are valued, you are loved and you are known, you have potential and you have a purpose.

Um, and I think. That’s the message that we get to carry the gospel, um, because Jesus believes that about every, excuse me about everybody. And then we get to bring that message to the people around us. Like that’s a powerful, powerful message for this life. Um, you know, removing everything that we get in the next life, you know, and relationship with Jesus.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. Man. Um, Do you know, I, I was just trying, as you were talking about the example of like going into the office and kind of feeling like everybody was just like floating and maybe didn’t have much hope and kind of seemed like zombies a little bit. Um, You know, like for the non-believer pathetic apathetic, apathetic, right.

Apathetic not care about anything. Right, right. I have apathy. Yeah. Yeah, man. That’s not a good place to be because your needs are alive.

And the Bible talks about apathy in the church and, you know, Basically says like, Hey, you are neither hot nor cold. So I spit you out of my mouth. You like, you weren’t useful, you know, you weren’t opposed to the gospel, you weren’t for the gospel, you’re just floating. Uh, so I don’t like lukewarm, you know?

Um, and don’t, I don’t know. I, at one point in my life, I tried to live, uh, put on a face of like, I’m the. I’m the cool kid who, you know, doesn’t let religion drag me down. And then the other face of like, I’m a leader in youth group and I’m, you know, great and Holy and have a solid relationship with God and man alive.

Let me tell you, um, that’s not fun. It’s not, it’s not good to, to try to live a fake life, whether you’re trying to live it in the right or wrong direction. I think. God deeply values, real relationship. And the obviously understands where your heart is. Uh, it, we don’t fool God with what we put on that might fool others or not.

Um, but, uh, man, like getting practical, uh, for, for the Christian who, and I know we only got like five minutes left, but for the Christian who, uh, Feels apathetic or for the Christian not apathetic, the one who, who sees needs and constantly feels overwhelmed and constantly feels like I’m not doing all that I could do.

If this is you listening right now. Um, Josh. I’d love your take on how you encourage them. Um, I would just say that James four verse that or read earlier, um, man, don’t look around at the world and say, I have to fix everything. I have to do everything because the reality is no. You and I can’t fix everything.

We can’t do everything. We can live into the kingdom through the sacrifice of Jesus and through the relationship that created with God, the direct personal relationship that created for us with God. Um, but I would just challenge you to say, don’t look around at the world and think you have to fix every single thing, but look around at the world, live your life, honestly.

And in real relationship with Jesus and. Each day or, or any chance you get ask yourself, Hey God, is there a need you want me to address? Is there a chance for me to be the hands and feet of Jesus, the physical church in action in somebody’s life today or this week, or this month? Like, could you show me what that is and give me the courage to do it live your life from that posture?

Not from. Every single thing I see that’s wrong. I need to address because there’s too many things, so many things that are wrong, and that’s just going to get you thinking it’s about your merit and your works, and it’s not. It’s about the heart. And it’s about, did you act, did you take the next right step that God prompted you to take?

So that would be my encouragement. Josh, you have. Thoughts to add to that? 

Josh: Yeah. Like I think it’s important to remember that that sin still rules the day. Um, so there’s going to be injustice. There’s going to be despair. There’s going to, at times you’re going to feel overwhelmed that you’re never going to be able to make a difference.

And I think this is why Jesus’ way of discipleship matters so much because it’s all built inside of relationship, relationship with God and relationship with one another. Um, because there are individuals that you can invest in relationally and make a huge difference in their lives. You know, going along the lines of what Andrew’s saying, like there’s going to be relationships that God puts in your life, that he wants you to foster and live out the great commission through.

Um, because it’s we talk about this gospel idea, like the gospel itself. Yes. It gives you access to hope, but unless you mature in your relationship with Jesus, you’re never going to experience that hope you just found salvation. You didn’t find the full life that Jesus promised you. And that’s where the great commission comes into play.

Like, yes, we want to make disciples of all nations. We want to baptize them in obedience to, to, to their relationship with Jesus as a representation of coming from dead to life. Um, and then we want to teach them Jesus ways. Um, and a good portion of teaching Jesus ways is teaching them how to have a relationship with Jesus.

So you can get to that place with like, Andrew’s talking about where Jesus is going to prompt you to invest relations people. He’s going to say. You’ve seen this same dude, six times. Now, I want you to have a relationship with this guy. Start talking to him, just invite him. Whatever happens to be, or your neighbors invite them over for a barbecue.

And I live in a neighborhood where. And when the weather’s nice, we spent a good amount of time out front. Well, it’s really easy for me to be tired from, from people all day. And, um, I don’t, I don’t want to spend more time with those that, I don’t know. Cause one, I hate small talk. Um, but you know, I choose to invest in that.

And now I know that they like cigars, um, because one of my neighbors was smoking a cigar at like, well, A couple of my neighbors smoke cigars, like all times of the day. So we eight 30 and I’ll be walking to go to Starbucks and I’m like, Oh, this smells so good. I like you. Um, weird. We’re connecting over cigars, but Hey, why not?

We can 


Andrew: friends over this. 

Josh: It’s a bridge, right? Yeah. There’s relationships all around us that God wants you to invest in, but you’ve got to start with your relationship with Jesus. Like, let it be an overflow of what Jesus is doing inside of you and how you invest in other people around you. I’m telling you as, as someone that like.

Um, probably like half introverted, half extroverted, like some people, yes. Give me life other people, especially small talk. I don’t know you that well, people just drain me. Um, but when I live in an overflow of what God’s doing inside of me and I’m living in an overflow of, of how guys just shaping and molding me, those relationships are so much easier.

Um, those relationships that are on the shallow end still. Um, we’re just getting to know individuals. I’m more courageous in taking risks to build relationships with those individuals. So I can blink bring them into relational environments. They can just see my relationship with Jesus up close. Like that’s the beauty of what Jesus has demonstrated for us all throughout the gospels.

And then the epistles, you know, expand even further, um, with. With that idea of like, no, it’s all about relationship it’s relationship with God and relationship with one another. So when I’m talking about the least of these, yeah. There’s at least of these people all around you, that God wants you to invest in a relationship with.

Um, don’t make it difficult. Don’t make it weird. Don’t think you’re going to conquer the world, just looking at one life at a time. That’s it just one life at a time I’m going to invest in and I’m going to keep investing in. Like, I don’t think it’s helpful, um, to. See someone hungry and just give them a burger for the day.

Sure. You fed them in that moment, but you have an opportunity to invest relationally. See if you keep seeing that person, you better know that person’s name like that’s, God’s prompting of like, dude, I see this guy every day. Um, I better get to know his story. I better start asking questions. Um, so he knows that I care, um, and, and invest in that way.

Yeah. Given burgers. Yeah. Take care of the physical needs, but there’s so much more that you have to offer as a follower of Jesus that you’re missing out on, on great life for that person, if you choose not to offer it. Um, so that’d probably be my encouragement. Um, everything stems from our relationship with Jesus guys.

I don’t know how many times we can say in this buckets, we set up all buns, love series. Yeah, we’ll say hit a bunch of more like you’ve got to spend time with Jesus. He’s the source of everything in your life. Jesus said in Matthew 15 apartment for me, you can do nothing. That’s the point apart from him, nothing.

So you’ve got to be in relationship with and practice those Jesus habits. We’ve talked about those Jesus habits. You can find on our website, you can find them in earlier episodes. Um, we go through all those things. We don’t do them because it’s what good Christians do we do them because we want to foster relationship with Jesus.

Um, and that’s what matters in the end. Right. That was helpful. So good, Andrew. So you gotta, you got to SKIDATA. That’s a good word, man. We didn’t, we don’t. You skipped Adol enough when 

Andrew: you bring that battle. I’m going to try to use that one stat. At least once more today, I got to SKIDATA too. Can I have 

Josh: something with meetings this afternoon?

I’m going to say that at the end, but man, I got to skedaddle guys. We’ll see you. That’s a good fun 

Andrew: skipping away. All right, dude. Hey, thank you for doing this. Uh, thanks for the awesome con ancient man. This is good. And 

Josh: as Melissa was encouraging, yeah, no, we appreciate it. Hey, we love you guys.

Andrew: Thanks for this on our show. It really means a lot to us and we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and with other 

Josh: people. And it also helps us out. If you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening on and also follow us on Instagram and the Facebook.

Now sharing this with your friends, isn’t just to get the word out of the podcast. We believe that we have the message of hope that’s found in the gospel of Jesus Christ and you sharing. This has the ability to transform the lives of the people around 

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