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Don’t Be a Turd
Episode No. 25

Seriously don’t be a turd and force itself on others. It is the easiest way to ruin relationships and get people to run away. Honor people, see them as people and choose to love them well in each and every interaction.

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Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this jesus’ life. My name is Josh.

Andrew: Hey, Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are. This Jesus life podcast, Josh, my friend, how are you doing?

Josh: I’m doing well. I’m sitting in anticipation because as we prayed before this episode, you started laughing halfway through our prayer, which Jesus was very pissed about.

He told me

Andrew: obviously he

Josh: was up just,

Andrew: no, I’m just going to you.

Josh: You say you’re not going to tell me. Until we start the episode. So I’m just sitting, waiting for, to find out what’s going on.

Andrew: You, you were obviously nervous about it because we needed the little pre intro saying this is episode 25. You said this is episode 15 and then were obviously checking the script.

Like, did he put something in here? No, I did not sure. Here’s here’s what happened. Josh was in the midst of a very. Kind prayer. Very good. One saying he was trying to say, Lord, would you just bless this conversation? And have it helped somebody? And the word that came out of your mouth was constipation.

Josh: What’d you just pledge

Andrew: this culture

Josh: thing is fair as well. Like maybe somebody listening right now, it was constipated. And you would like some prayer now. Yeah. Give them relief. Now constipation, isn’t a prayer that we lay hands on for obvious reasons. Uh, we have, we had a friend that was having. Yeah. We had a friend that was having issues with his nether regions.

Um, and Andrew offered to lay hands on his nether regions to, and I was like, Whoa,

Andrew: can you imagine if there was like, you know, how you got the rattlesnake church for healing? Can you imagine if there’s the constipation church where it’s like, that was their claim to fame. If you’re constipated, we can lay hands on you and you’ll poop, you know?

Josh: Yeah. It’d be, it’d be pretty close between. What I want to be a part of the snake church or the constipation church. I hate snakes. I

Andrew: hate

Josh: if I had to pick up a snake to prove that I love Jesus. Yeah, I didn’t love Jesus. I don’t love Jesus. Like, that’s just the reality of it. Um, I guess it’s not love Jesus.

I have faith that, that he’s going to protect me or however they do it. Uh, and then constipation, that’s a miserable day. Like there’s nothing worse than me constipated or bloated. Like, no, no, no. I stopped drinking beer because I felt bloated after. So I’m a beer and I don’t know. Almost a year probably.

Andrew: Yeah, that bubbliness. I sometimes I like to

Josh: drink a lot of wheat beers. So I wonder if it’s the, who I do, like less than LaCroix.

Andrew: Well, I was just gonna say sometimes that’ll at least give me the stomach, stomach, Gert, quilts, you know, that sparkling water. It’s so carbonated. Sometimes it’s like just super gurgly for awhile, not bloated, but you know of kind of sudsy.

Josh: Yeah. The, uh, there’s a new movie on HBO. Hm. Trying to remember it it’s like the pickle man or something like that. It’s with, um, Seth, um, Uh, who’s the dude that does all the weed movies. Seth Rogan. Yeah. It’s with him. So he plays, he plays two characters. One was his like great, great, great grandpa or something like that that fell into a pickle bat back in like the early 19 hundreds.

Um, or maybe before that, and then was preserved by the pickle juice for some specific reason that it came to life. In modern day and he plays the Gregory grandson and him, but there’s a scene in the episode. So like there’s scene in the movie before he goes into the bat, the grandpa that, um, they see like bubbling water in New York city.

And they’re like, Oh, like that’s what rich people get to have. Like, we aspire to have bubbling water. Uh, and then it comes to modern day. Uh, and, uh, the grandson asked, Hey, do you want some. Some bubbling water and the guy’s like you have bubbling water. He’s like, absolutely. Yeah, we can. And he was like one of those like machines that make it like the soda things.

And he’s like, yeah, we can just make it right now. And he’s like, yeah, I would love some sparkling water. And he’s like, I’ll even let you push the button. You’ll let me. Push the button to make bubbling water. You’re like, I wonder what the things are today that we look at and say, I aspire to have and tears when they come around and you’re like, it really doesn’t matter.

No, it wasn’t that

Andrew: cool. Who wasn’t that? Cool. Oh man, dude. Speaking of pickles, I don’t know if you knew this, but when I first, so. I didn’t really like pickles for a long time. And then it was like, uh, like my sophomore year of college, I was living with like five other dudes in this like little double dorm room that we put together.

So we all slept on one side and we all like hung out on the other side and had our desks over there. Anyway. Long story short, my buddy, Keith decided to, he needed to lose some weight. His girlfriend told him he was getting too fat and he’s like, okay, I’ll lose some weight. He hadn’t put on a lot of pounds to be fair.

Um, and his girlfriend was uttered. He, he married a lady who’s way better. Um,

Josh: he married her and you’re calling her a turnstile. Oh, hopefully Keith doesn’t listen.

Andrew: He might, he might. But he was like, I got to lose weight. My girlfriend’s getting fat. He’s like, but I don’t want to work out. So I’m just going to dress the clean cut.

Cut. What I eat. Cut my calories. So Keith decided

Josh: that he was,

Andrew: he went on a pickle diet where he only, he only pickled foods. So like pickle, eggs. Pickles, but his whole rationale was like, dude, he’s like a whole pickle, a huge dill pickle is like 10 calories. He’s like cucumbers have no calories in them.

Like you need like pickles and I’ll feel full, but I won’t get any fatter.

Josh: So the funny thing that happened.

Andrew: It’s dude, he lost like 30 pounds in like no time.

But the funny thing was like, it backfired because his girlfriend and all of her girlfriends at the time, like did not want to be anywhere near our room. Cause it just smells like pickles. Just smelled like pickles and farts.

Josh: But what happened.

Andrew: Is that everybody started bumming pickles off Keith, and it was his only food source.

So he was pretty pissed about it. So then we all would like end up taking a weekly trip to Walmart and we would all be buying like a big thing of dill pickles or whatever. That’s the pickles. So dude, we’d just be sitting around late night, like snacking on pickles.

Josh: I drew love me some pickles, dude. I didn’t tell you.

Well, imagine what it did was body image. The level of sodium that was entering his body, like had to be, had to do a number. He like, he

Andrew: definitely lost a lot of weight, but

Josh: he looked terrible.

Andrew: He was so sick and like, just didn’t feel good.

Josh: So it really backfired. But.

Andrew: But for, I don’t know, it’s always a funny pickle memory to think about for sure.


Josh: I, uh, uh, When I was little, I loved pickles. I’ll drink the pickle juice. I shouldn’t say I’d do it now, but I did as a child, drink pickle juice straight out of the like gr so good. But, uh, we were in a hotel. I was little and I had a jar of pickles. Why I had a jar of pickles in my hotel. I don’t know, but I did.

And I was drinking them on the bed. Now, you know, all the sheets inside of a hotel room are white. Everything’s white. And I was drinking this and somehow it slipped and like pickle juice all over the bed. Oh man. Stained it all green. Uh, my family is not happy with me. The whole room stinks. Yeah. I was not the favorite child

Andrew: that day.


Josh: Yeah.

Andrew: One time. Okay. Last, last story. Before we get into it, not related to pickles, but similar effect of it’s spilled everywhere. So we were, we were at church for this Christmas Eve service. And somehow my, like my dad worked for a pharmaceutical sale company. So he had all these things of like sample vitamins that were like orange flavored.

So he had all these like, like they weren’t bad for you at all. They were just vitamins, but they tasted like orange candy basically.

Josh: So

Andrew: I somehow snuck a whole bottle of those vitamins. To the church. So during the Christmas Eve service as well, the messages going, um, I was literally under the church Pew in front of my family or behind maybe, um, just.

Totally munching on all of these vitamins and like loving it. Cause I’m like, I can’t believe I have all this candy. It’s awesome.

Josh: And dude,

Andrew: I kid you not as the pastor was like starting their prayer to end the service, like right before we laid all the candles, you know, and have the Christmas Eve thing as he was praying, I just.

Puked vitamins and orange, orange stomach acid everywhere underneath the Pew on the green carpet. I’ll always remember it because I just went from like loving the taste of those vitamins to like, I never want to see one of these again, in my way.

Josh: It was bad.

Andrew: I got in some trouble on that one.

Josh: That’s for sure.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I used to drink. Dimetapp like it was, yeah, it was a drink, like straight up. So good. It’s funny. I probably still do it today. I had any diamond tap, but I didn’t know what time to taps for coffee. I don’t know, dude. I don’t know. I think it’s working. Go ahead. It’s for what

Andrew: I was going to say, I think it’s another, it’s a form of pickling liquid.


Josh: you can try, I’m not sure how that will play out, but yeah, you can definitely try it. I think you should try it before I try it. Yeah, I’ll give it a shot. Yeah, dude. I meant to tell you this, before we go to the podcast, this is nothing new with podcasts, nor does have anything to do with love. Um, well he does have some to do with, I love doing it, uh, but it doesn’t matter.

One another, but it could have something to do with, I guess it could in a long, weird, twisted way. So we did a, uh, uh, a murder mystery kind of thing weeks ago. So we’re like you get all the evidence and you play investigator and you figure out who murdered tons of fun. Yeah. Um, I’m kind of addicted now.

I’ve bought in like three or four of them. Right. Um, And now I’m on this crusade that I’m going to write my own. So I’m halfway done. I’m going to send you a copy of it, which is going to have like locks and all these other weird things. They play along with it. So you play with you and your friends to let me know if it’s any good.

A couple of other friends will send it to as well. And see if there’s anything to this. I’m going to package this bad boy up and sell it to you,

Andrew: dude. Absolutely. I’m in, I’ll be, uh, I’ll be a test dummy. That sounds great, man. Nice.

Josh: So we’ll see. So podcasts listeners that might be coming soon. We’ll see. Yeah.

Andrew: Josh’s murder mystery,

Josh: you know, but we won’t reveal the name for it by Josh. Yeah. Yeah. We’ll keep it a secret. We’ll make it fun. They actually paid us for it.

Andrew: That sounds really fun,

Josh: dude. We are still in the midst. Uh, first Corinthians 13, as we’re talking about this idea of love. And we’re talking about this idea of love, not in the sense of.

Though we could play a role in this of romantic love. We’re doing this in the sense of just love in general. And Jesus told us, love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind. Then the second command is like, it love your neighbor as yourself. So he said, if those are the, if that’s the goal, if that’s what we’re striving to do as followers of Jesus, then we should probably learn something a little bit about love.

And thankfully Paul wrote this, this chapter in the middle of, um, these leadership versus, um, her chapters in first Corinthians. That love is, and he starts with simply that about this. And he says, love is patient love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud. Love does not dishonor others.

And it’s not self-seeking it’s not easily angered. It keeps no records of wrong. Love does not delight in evil. But rejoices in the truth always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres love never fails. And we spent the handful of episodes. If you just found us, we’ve started at love is patient.

We kind of worked your way up to this point and you can always go back and check those out. But love does not dishonor others, and it is not. Self seeking is where we start today. And I just burped, as I was talking, I tried to hide it. I don’t know if I did, but it’s, I used to like sushi because that’s what I had for lunch today.

Andrew: That’s great. Well, you sounded good and you hit it well, and, uh, you know, there was, there was a slight pause in your reading, but you’re you covered it, man. Nobody even knew

Josh: it was solid. Well know now. Right. But let’s, uh, let’s dive into love. Does not dishonor others kind of talk about that concept there before jumping into the next one, though, they probably go hand in hand and that’s why we put them together.

But yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. I was thinking about this, uh, just a little bit and like this idea of not dishonoring others, um, like. I was thinking about what it means to honor others. And what, in one of our episodes in the last three weeks, I think we kind of talked about that example of like the, um, when you walk into a wedding, don’t set yourself at the head of the table, um, to where the guests, the, the, uh, host test to like.

Dishonor you and say, actually, there’s somebody more important, actually, that’s the bride’s, uh, father’s chair or whatever, and kick you down the table, but it says, you know, live live so that you take the lowly seat and the guest can honor you in front of others and bring you up to, to a place of honor.

Um, so it was just thinking about that, like, The, I think one thing, especially, you know, I don’t know if it’s unique to men and women or women or just all of us, but, um, man, if you dishonor somebody, uh, you are you’re in trouble. Like you’re not gonna, you don’t might not be in trouble, but you’re not gonna win any friends through dishonoring people.

Like we, we have a bunch of friends mutually and we joke around with each other. But we don’t dishonor one another. We don’t say like, no, no, no, you suck. And here’s why, um, or you’re really bad, or here’s why, or I want to embarrass you in front of your wife or your family or your, you know, other friends. No, it’s like we joke around, but it’s very, very different than dishonoring each other.

I feel like that’s a more harsh infraction to dishonor someone. Um, and I think it takes. Probably being intentional to choose to dishonor someone. So that’s just kind of 2 cents on it. What do you think?

Josh: Yeah. And to kind of take that a little bit further. So the term dishonor, um, as it’s translated, at least in the NIV, um, that’s what we’re reading from.

I don’t know what it’s translated through in other versions, we can look, but, um, Actually, it has a little bit more specific meeting than just dishonor. Um, it actually means to not dishonor others by being pushy, um, or too another way to say the same as love. Doesn’t dishonor others by forcing themselves on others.

Um, and I think that’s an important distinction, uh, and. In trying to figure out how do we actually live this out because you think of honor. And you’re like, well, what does honor mean to them? You just put them up, put them up and tell them how awesome they are. And you know, when they do great things to share those great things, like what does honor look like?

And I think this is a. Better definition of it of no honor. I don’t dishonor others by forcing myself on them. I’m not like forcing herself physically. Right. Right. You know, I would assume as you listen, like you understand what that means, like to force oneself of, to. To use your influence power, whatever, to manipulate, to get what you want, or to control conversation with certain mannerisms or, um, uh, emotion or attitude.

Like there’s a variety of ways to force yourself on others. And you know, these people too, right? Like this is one of the reasons I don’t want to be described as an eight because I don’t like most it’s. I mean,

Andrew: any agreements? Yeah.

Josh: Any agreements, because this is a, uh, Uh, usually a pretty large portion of their personality if they’re not controlling it, um, is they’re going to force themselves on to others to get really, to get thrown away.

Like that’s where it comes from. Um, yeah, like it’s a, it’s a self seeking methodology or mindset is probably a better way to say it. And I think that’s where it’s coming from. Um, they’re just trying to protect themselves and in protecting yourself, you’re trying to. Self seek about yourself. Like, it’s just how you protect.

But, um, so I think that’s part of it too, but he has that pushiness it’s. Um, can I, um, can I portray a strong attitude or strong position to get what I want? Can I, um, Convict them can, I, there’s a variety of different ways to manipulate to get that, that outcome.

Andrew: So speaking of eights and dishonor through being pushy, um, by the time you listen to this, the election will be either done or will be like.

Really close to that day. Cause we’re, I think two weeks ahead. Um, as you were talking about that, a question came up was like, I wonder if Trump has an eight, you know, like an unhealthy eight. Um, I kind of think so. Um, but he’s got a lot of characteristics of that, but I was also thinking, um, like in that last, in the first debate, the first of probably two total, it looks like there’s going to be one this Thursday, but, um, Remember where I don’t know if you watched it or not, but there was a moment where, um, Joe Biden was talking about his son.

But he was talking about a son who had passed away who was like in the military and Trump like kind of dishonored him, um, or, or just like breezed over it. He was like, no, no, I’m not talking about that one. I’m talking about your other son. And was like, it just really came off bad to a lot of people. And, uh, there were a lot of people who like, felt disrespected by that, um, through being in the military and through being military parents and everything.

And I was just thinking like, that’s, that might be a good example. I, I wish I had like the exact quotes of what was said, but that might be a kind of a good example of like being dishonoring through being pushy, like further, your own means is maybe that, or just. Politics in general, if we’re being real, I’m being pushy kind of for your own good, like I’m going to put somebody else down.

Uh, so that I look good or I look powerful or I look in control or just so that they look bad. I’m going to dishonor them through being pushy in front of everybody else so that they look bad, you know? And, uh, I guess the tricky thing is when I think about not the tricky thing, but I just wonder how you think this fits into it, but like, Jesus, uh, was, you know, God incarnate.

Um, and, and he was. Pretty pushy and pretty dishonoring to like the religious authorities of the day, the Pharisees, um, often, um, in the Bible, like he would kind of dishonor them and he would dishonor them in front of people called them like whitewashed tombs. Like you’re, you know, you look good on the outside, but you’re dead and decaying on the inside whitewashed tomb, um, like calm them, stuff like that.

Like you’re a pit Vipers, identity, thieves, all of that. Like, uh, so. I guess what’s the line or what do you think, how do you think we interpret that? Like love doesn’t dishonor. Um, and then Jesus has kind of example of like intentionally being cool with dishonoring, the Pharisees, or at least knocking them down a few notches.

Josh: Yeah. Um, I think part of it is truth is truth. Um, so with jesus’ examples with the Pharisees, like he wasn’t dishonoring those individuals specifically, he was, uh, essentially attacking mistruth or lies. Um, he was saying, this is what you’re doing. This isn’t true. This is how it should be. And he was making corrections statements.

Um, I don’t think they became. They may have been come across as I was the, he was like to the individual that he was talking with too, that he was attacking them. But, um, I don’t think that was the intention. I think the other part of this is we’re not Jesus. It’s true. So that’s true. So there’s a, there’s a, there’s some things that he’s capable of doing because he’s, well, he’s got a, that we’re just, we don’t have the, the wisdom or the know-how and how to appropriately it.

Uh, accomplish it. So I think it’s probably better to say, stay on the safe side, um, and choose to not like here’s, here’s the sticky part for me. So if I disagree from a theological standpoint on what you’re coming, like, what you’re doing, um, like I have this need inside me to correct the behavior. Cause I think it’s wrong now.

I don’t necessarily going crack the be here with you. I might just correct the behavior with the people around you because you don’t want to change. Um, but I’m gonna say something and I think saying something’s okay. Um, if you don’t want to listen, um, But it’s a, it’s a delicate, slippery slope is kind of what I’m getting at, cause that can easily become, I’m not dishonoring you.

Um, I’m not giving you the benefit of the doubt. I’m just, I’m going to, to throw mud as quick as I possibly can because I’m in the right and you’re in the wrong. Um, and that’s not going to do any good. So it really comes down to if, if I wanted say, say I fundamentally disagreed with something. About you, Andrew, that you said did whatever.

And I thought it was theologically incorrect. Um, I thought it was against Jesus and his gospel. Um,

I guess the question becomes, do I love you enough to have a conversation with you to dig into it if you don’t want to listen. Do I love you enough to have a conversation with you and with someone else? We both know and loves you as well. Um, so we can dig into it. Um, if we can’t come to terms on it and there’s a reasonable, um, your position has.

Uh, reasonable. Like it’s reasonable to have that position. I might think it’s wrong, but others can look at and say, I can theologically land, like see how he landed there. Um, then it’s probably something we let go. We just move on. Um, I’m not going to slander you this and that. I think the sticky part comes in of what if no one is looking at this saying, yeah, you don’t have any few logical ground.

Um, anyone that has. Like you can always, I don’t say that to say this. Like, you can always find people that will agree with you. That’s not hard. Um, you can, you can surround yourself with people that are going, gonna tell you what you want to hear. Yeah. That’s pretty easy to do. Um, but, but feel logins or the current, you know, stance on these things.

Nobody lands on the side that you’re on. Yeah. Um, And you don’t want to make a difference. Then we get into this weird ground that would be really, really hard to navigate. Well, so I’m correcting those that maybe listening to you. Um, just so they hear the other side of it, but doing that in such a way that I’m not pushing myself on you on them.

I’m not using my weight, my authority to get my way or even to change their mind. My goal is just to let them hear something else,

Andrew: trying to inform them.

Josh: So it’s okay. Yeah, and you get into weird ground. So like say you had this view and your wife was falling in and I’m like, man, she’s believing this view and they’re headed down to, to this Colt.

Do I say something to your wife? I don’t know in all honesty, that’s a crazy relationship that is right now. If we had a mutual friend and we have plenty of them, but if we had a mutual friend and that mutual friend was leaving towards going down this cult direction that you’re headed or whatever it is, do I have the ability to say something to them?

I think I do. Yeah. And I would take that chance and I would say, Hey, I know, I know this is what Andrew has been saying, and I’m not trying to. Change your mind necessarily though, if you do, I’m not opposed to that. Um, but I do just want you to hear the other side of the story or the other side of the situation or the other theological idea, um, inside of this.

Um, and so I, and it all comes back to self seeking, right? Like, it’s that dishonor others for my own, my own benefit. Am I doing this just to be right? Am I doing this open? More people are on my side. Those are all wrong reasons. So those are, I would argue simple. Um, Am I doing it because I genuinely care about you.

I generally care about our mutual friend. Um, I’m trying, I honestly believe that this has headed somewhere, um, that that is going to be hard to come back from. And that’s really the thing is if it’s something doesn’t matter, who cares move on. Like, if it’s a, if it’s not an issue that’s going to happen.

Destructive aspect of your life. And especially like, if it’s destructive in a big way, who cares, let them make whatever decisions they want.

Andrew: It’s their life. They, they

Josh: have a relationship with Jesus too. Jesus speaks to them, just like he speaks to me like, go ahead. I could be wrong. Um, but if it’s going down a path, you’re like, man, this is going to lead to some destruction that it’s going to be pretty hard to come back from.

Yeah. Uh, then yeah, you’re going to get more involved because you generally, but I think it’s motives. You got to keep testing your motives. And I think we’ve said this a lot over these whole things. It’s motive. It’s like, is it just to be right? Is it to protect myself? Is it, do I get benefit out of this then you’re wrong.

100%. You’re probably in the wrong. Um, you’ve got to get, and this is why friends are so important. Like people that love Jesus and love you in that order. And having them around you are so important because you’re, you’re not going to see things the right way all the time. That’s just the reality. We, none of us do.

Um, so we need those people to be around us that have a fair amount of influence with us to correct us when we’re moving down the wrong paths. Like that’s why Christian community was built. The way that it was built is we need these people around us to speak to us. Now they’re not doing it from a controlling perspective.

It is extremely important to point out, right? Like manipulation control. Um, trying to make somebody make a decision. Like we don’t have the ability to do any of those things. Right. I shouldn’t say it that way. We shouldn’t be doing those things. You may have the skillsets to do those things, but you shouldn’t be practicing with those things.

Um, so there’s that piece of it too, of like, if that’s the methodology you’re using, you’re 100% wrong. I don’t care. Because like, since reaching from us, some other sin, rock, play those games, um, you don’t get to control people or manipulate people because you’re you think your way is right. Um, That’s not love.

That’s putting your, that’s pushing yourself. That’s putting, forcing them, yours, yourself on them. Right. Like that’s not okay. Um, and I think that’s where we get into, and maybe that’s a better way to describe all this we’ve said all of this and maybe that’s the answer  um, of like, am I trying to control this person?

Well, like that’s, that’s not my place. Yeah. Um, and even with, with, you know, I think like, you know, my nephews are here right now, nine and eight, I think that’s right. My brother and sister-in-law listen so simple. I’ll get a text message, correct me if I got the rages wrong. But, uh, like I, I think of, of their parents, like controlling their kids is not the goal.

Right. Yeah. Like that’s not how you raise kid children. That’s not how you lead them. Um, and not, you know, put extra weight a burden on them. That’s unnecessary. Um, no, you do it through conversation and redirection and, um, not manipulation. Um, anyone has any changes as they get older, but like, so there’s that piece of it too, of like, What, what are you trying to do?

What’s your methodology? I think it’s going to say a lot about whether or not you’re dishonoring.

Andrew: Yeah. Yes. That what’s, your motive is really important, you know, because, uh, like I, uh, I was just going to make a joke. I was trying to say, uh, in some. Cheeky way. Do you want to join my call? Cheeky some cheeky way

Josh: now, um, I’m gonna pause for a second and I want to hear your cheeky way of trying to convince me to be like, Oh,

Andrew: I don’t have one.

I’d tell him you married

Josh: way

Andrew: under slept today. So I’m not .

Josh: Yeah. Um, I’ll pitch it

Andrew: to you later. Um, yeah, for sure. I don’t have a call just so you know, if you’re listening and

Josh: just so you know, um,

Andrew: um, no, I, you called it,

Josh: dude.

Andrew: Let me

Josh: let my Brandon company help you Brandon better if you’re

Andrew: that’s hilarious.

Listen, I haven’t Brandon company. Your called needs some help.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Tagline for Birch designs to plug myself here just for a second. Yes. Our tagline is we build, we help you build brands that people like to talk about when you’re not in the room. Ooh. I don’t know if I stole that from somebody, but it’s good.

That is good. I like that. That’s so good.

Andrew: If I had a call, I would probably be, uh, calling you up and saying, Hey. I want people talking about it when I’m not in the room, as long as they’re saying, because he

Josh: likes, you’re always looking for ways to make extra money, right. Because it just seems like what you’re supposed to do life life’s easier when you have more money.

Uh, and I’ve always done design things on the side. I haven’t, I’ve worked with some companies, but most of the time nonprofits, churches, uh, nonprofits and churches suck. Let’s just start there, uh, as a freelance designer, cause they don’t want to pay you money. They don’t think you’re worth it. That’s fine.

Let them go to somebody else. I don’t work with churches and nonprofits anymore. Uh, I, the work of businesses. And let me tell you the amount of money that I’ve made in the last 12 months. Like we’re we’re well over. We’re well, over here for what I make in my actual job at

Andrew: this point,

Josh: then we still got a few more months left, so who knows what’s going to land before the end of the year, but that’s awesome.

I sell that to say this.

Andrew: If you need branding help for your call, you can call Josh.

Josh: Oh, really? That’s really it. First Um, we, uh, 100% we’ll, uh, we’ll help you out if you’re looking for a deal. I know you don’t call. Um, yeah, if you’re looking, if you’re like, Hey, my budget’s a thousand dollars, I’m not your guy.

I’m like, man, there’s other guys out there. You can get a logo made for you really cheap if that’s all you want. Yeah, that’s right. But yeah, building brands. Building brands is an art form, man. And it’s fun. So let’s talk about, let’s talk about some names, some ideas of, of your cult. Like what do you want your, what do you want your, your cultists?

Is that the word to feel like what you want when you think of you, what do you want?

Andrew: What do you want them to where the, where the, uh, where the truth is? Uh, the truth are called where we just, we have an ankle on everything. That’s more true than anybody else, you know, like we get it. They really understand it.

Everybody else keeps missing stuff, you know?

Josh: Um, I’m not thinking

Andrew: I’m thinking like a pyramid with

Josh: no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’s already been used. You got to think of something new, but I’m telling you your message. Like there’s something to your message. I think. I think people are going to be into, yeah,

Andrew: I gotta be a little bit more

Josh: cheeky.

Yeah, more cheeky. We’ll have to figure out how to make your brand cheeky. Right? How do we work that in? But now I think there’s something too. I think there’s definitely a part of humanity that likes to be right over another part. I think he might

Andrew: nail it.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We’ll talk pretty quick.

Andrew: We’ll talk off air, but I’m thinking

Josh: dot org is where you want to visit.

Andrew: Well, I’m going to start with t-shirts. We can work my way towards the compound, uh, is all I’m saying.

Josh: Oh, it’s compound. So that’s the end goal.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s the car. Yeah. That’s well, that’s the middle. That’s the middle goal

Josh: there nation. Then you’re taking over the country.

Andrew: I’m going to try it and be like the Mormons.

Just get a whole state. That’s just

Josh: my,

Andrew: I got my standards for South Dakota, sweat. I’m thinking properly. South Dakota. Okay. You know, there’s a lot of funny stuff going on in South Dakota, so you never know that stuff. Oh man, that is a super

Josh: is not resolving is not resolving. So

Andrew: I’m not gonna

Josh: sack it’s available as we,

Andrew: I’m not going to fake start a call for money.

Josh: Always. That feels is nothing to do with our conversation today. It’s super manipulative. Um, but. I’ve always wanted to have a secret society. Like

Andrew: there’s, there’s like,

Josh: like secret tattoos, secret handshakes, really? Just so there’s people that are in a people that are out. Like, I’m just trying to draw lines in the sinews.

Andrew: Do you remember who I love? Me too, man, at youth group or youth camp, like this was like five years ago on our, our winter retreat. We did that game where everybody, the whole idea was unity at the end,

Josh: but the whole idea

Andrew: you secretly give like bracelets to people and everybody gets in, gets the brace.

You made somebody cry with that

Josh: because the whole thing we’re trying to, everybody has a saying every saying that you would say to know who was in, who was out. Um, I love hot dogs. And then they were respond with only on a boat. And that’s how you knew. That’s funny. It was a great idea. I still think I stand by that idea.

I think it was actually Denny’s idea. Um, if I remember correctly, so we’ll give her credit for a great idea, but the point of the illustration and we ran all weekend, but it ended with a, uh, a message and we talked about it, but the point of the illustration was, um, Like, look how look, how your influence spreads.

So like this person brought in this person and these people brought in these people, and that was the point of like, we’re trying to show, Hey, you’ve got to do something for the gospel. Take root. You got to do something for the guy, but look at the impact you can have with such a small conversation. Yeah.

So that’s the, that was the illustration and weren’t great. And even the crying girl,

Andrew: like

Josh: it was sad that she cried, especially in who it was. She was so sweet, but at the same time, it proved the point. Yeah, like here is your, like, it was a great additional illustration of like, here’s, so-and-so crying right here because nobody brought her in.

Like nobody told her that what the good news, no one told her what, what Jesus did and what he can bring to your life. Like no one did. And this is you’re going to have people just like this as we stand before God, like that was the point of the Australia. But yeah, we made, we made a girl cry because nobody brought her in and in the moment I was like, this could not have worked better.

Um, but after the fact you’re like, I am such an ass, then I created the situation for these things to happen. No joke. We’re coming back from camp years later, this girl is now a senior in high school, or just graduated high school, something like that. And in our, in our van, we just started sharing like things we admire about other people in the van.

Like typical church thing to do, because that doesn’t happen in most situations and we’re sharing this and that, and that was one of the things I shared with her was like, I don’t remember if you remember this, I assume you do, because it was probably on your counseling bill. I would assume if not yet, it will be, but me and like, yeah, you, you want it bad to be in the group and the group has screwed you over and over and over again.

And hasn’t brought you into the, in the fault. And I’m so sorry for that, but. The resiliency had to keep coming back. I admire. Um, and I’m proud of you for, so yeah, it did full circle, even though I made a girl cry, to be honest

Andrew: for them, but you know, like the whole, the whole idea of dishonoring others, there’s like the, I just think that example maybe maybe fits actually in this discussion because.

Like that was an unintentional thing and you felt bad about it. I’m sure a lot of people did. Um, and you tried to rectify it, right? You brought it back around you I’m sure. Apologized nearly in the moment.

Josh: Um, so,

Andrew: and then, you know, and resolve it, but I think the dishonoring, others like that, it would be that chance.

Like we talk a lot about. I talk a lot about how, like the, your words have the power of life and death tied to them. The Bible talks about it a lot. James talks about it a lot, whereas like your, your, the tongue is like a rudder of a ship. You know, it’s like a match that can spark a forest fire. It’s a big deal, you know, and it, and it can be used for really good things or really bad things.

And, um, I just think, like, even that example with that girl who was left out and who the whole group didn’t influence when they told everybody else she was the only one, not in the secret

Josh: society, there was other ones too. I’m not sure, but

Andrew: man, she’s one of those, maybe the, one of the only anyway, um, the whole thing, like.

In that moment where it came back around and you were talking about, again, the dishonor

Josh: it’s so bad now for her, I’m sorry, you’re talking like 60, 70, 80 people.

Andrew: It was a big group

Josh: and you’re sitting there not knowing what everyone else is talking about. Oh my gosh, I’m miserable.

Andrew: But the dishonoring thing would be to bring that back around a year later, a week later in front of that same group of people who was all in and she was out and be like, Hey, remember when nobody wanted to recruit you.

Like, there’s the there’s that like, that stab, like in the just gut, you know, like that’s the, or the chest, like that is like, that’s the chance to like really wound somebody or to like elevate somebody where you complimented the resilience and, you know, I’m sure apologize. Probably five more times in the moment, but like, there’s that chance to like really elevate somebody or just shut them down.

You know, and I think that’s the severity of like, why love doesn’t dishonor maybe is because it’s, it’s just like, you can really deal out life or death in those moments, you know? And you gotta, you gotta recognize that. Like, I don’t know, you’re a leader, man. And, and I I’m a leader naturally. And people look to whatever we say.

With some level, it has some level of influence, like with the people that we can influence it has influence on them. So, um, I don’t know. There’s a way, there’s a, yeah, there’s a weight that comes with that though of like, I can really deal out life and death and I can really push somebody towards Jesus.

Or it can really make them think about that crappy thing. I said to them that dishonored them every time they think about Jesus and they’ll never step towards Jesus again, you know, like that you can really deal out life and death with your words. So in a, in a weird tangent of a way, I think that example might, might fit well, uh, in this where dishonoring is like, Just a harsh blow, you know, um, can be a harsh blow.

So that’s maybe why love doesn’t dishonor.

Josh: There’s plenty of stories like that in my life of things. I was not honoring by any sense of the imagination with people. And, um, there’s a kid in the youth group when I was in the youth group that we paraded around the worship center, duct tape to a chair. Um, In the middle of the night and the kid never came back.

That was a big, you were in

Andrew: youth here, right? Like

Josh: it was when I was with wasn’t a

Andrew: leader

Josh: high school. Yeah. Yeah. I was 100% ass. Um, but there’s plenty of, you know, going back to this motive idea, like, as you evaluate your actions, like, what are you trying to accomplish? What are you trying to do and are your actions?

Um, cause let me, let me paint it this way. Um, You have a friend, this friend is, is headed down roads that, that worry you, um, that you’re seeing destruction starting to cause, and, and since our to take root and you’re just, you’re, you’re concerned about the dude. Um, so you figure, Hey, I’m going to get this person to change his ways.

Um, and. Really the end goal is what matters the most is that he stops and he changes his ways. So I choose manipulate by choose to get other people against him. I choose to share things about him that I shouldn’t be sharing with people because it’s conversation me and him had in confidence. It wasn’t designed to be shared with that, but I use those things to manipulate his behavior, to control his behavior, to get him to do it.

Uh, and eventually he decides to do what I want. Um, Now look at it from his perspective of sure. He’s doing one to one, maybe to some extent, he’s thankful that you got him to make these decisions, but there’s been a lot of damage done. Um, you don’t get to control and manipulate people. You don’t get to dishonor people and push on them.

Um, and they’re not be damaged done. So. Like, there’s always going to be that barrier between me and him until it’s dealt with and we work through it. Um, but I’ve done a fair amount of damage in that moment and are in those moments that are going to like, they’re going to cause riff and division. That’s just reality.

Cause that’s what it’s going to do. Um, and is it worth it? Sure. He’s not moving down this path anymore, but like I have no influence of the guy anymore. Like I’ve destroyed it all. I’m sure we got what we wanted. He turned from his ways, but was that the end goal? And this is where like, when you start to get into, um, some of the verses that Paul lays out, we often like to focus on the things that give us the right to be an ass.

Right. We’re gonna, we’re gonna kick you out of the fellowship because we’ve tried and tried and tried and nothing’s changed. And now it’s time to just throw you out. We get so quickly to that end goal a lot faster than I think Paul intended us to get there. Sure. Someone that’s living in direct violation of the gospel and living in direct violation who God has called us to be.

Yes. At some point you’re going to have to desensitize, um, because for the sake of the community moving forward, you’ve got to. But that is 100%. The last option you should have tried every other option that is not manipulative for controlling to get to that point. You should try to love him deeply in a well, um, to help them understand here’s my position.

This is where I’m coming from. This is what I think Jesus has said about this. Um, in deep love. And if I don’t then like, yeah, that’s going to cause that’s going to cause destruction and I’m not gonna, we’re not gonna get to one, but I think we so quickly jump to, well, Paul gave me the right to do this.

Sure. As a 100% last option, the early church, wasn’t throwing people out every day. It wasn’t a thing like nowhere in scripture, you’re going to find that we have a couple of examples where it happened, but it wasn’t the norm. Um, But we treat it as the norm of we’re going to draw a line in the sand.

You’re out, we’re in, um, like it’s just all that stuff. So I think I get the other side of this, of like, well, this is what Paul said. Sure. It is what Paul said, but Paul said it in a very innocent, very specific way of. Like this is N last result, not as a tool in the toolbox, I’m like, this is, I’ve tried everything else.

Nothing’s getting us there. Um, and now something has to be, and it’s not a decision made by yourself either. Like there should be decision made in community of yeah. And you should be only one trying to have conversations. Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. There’s a whole chain of responsibility around that and it’s like, Church punishment, you know, it’s not, uh, it’s

Josh: not a church discipline.

Andrew: Yeah. It’s not supposed to be used all the time. It’s like kind of a last read. It is a last resort, essentially. Yeah. But,

Josh: and if you’re using as a tool of control, your 100% incident period. Yep. I don’t care if you are the guy in charge.

Andrew: Truth, truth. Yeah, man. I mean, it’s it. I think when we abuse stuff like that, whether it be church discipline or reading, a small chunk of scripture, it’s starting a call around it.

The truth is we have a corner on the truth. We know the truth better than everybody else,

Josh: dude. Good tagline. We have the corner. We have

Andrew: the corner. On the truth. I think

Josh: I can sell.

Andrew: Yeah, no, it just need a Bible for build that backs that up then

Josh: I was like doing the broom stuff. I’ll send you some worksheets in easier works.

Okay. Okay.

Andrew: No, I, uh, um, man, I, sorry, I just got a text that distracted me, but. I don’t know. I, um, I think when we take a corner on something and manipulate that, uh, when we take a corner of scripture, a little chunk of scripture or an idea like the church discipline thing, and then we manipulate it and make that a core piece of what we do.

And like, that’s, that kind of becomes our guide.

Josh: Then we’re no longer honoring others. We are 100% dishonoring

Andrew: dishonoring. God. Um, not, not only others, like you just, you start off and you’re like, okay. From the, the core of what I’ve made my identity about is something that dishonors God. So of course you can’t honor people.

Well, you know, um, I’m not saying join the truth there’s so that you always have the perfect truth, but I think about it.

No, but I’m just saying like, if you’re not at least. Going from the motive of what is the Lord think about these things? What does God think about church discipline? How does it apply to this scenario? What does God think about how I react or how I treat the people around me, um, or how I live out love that that reflects his character.

Like if you’re not genuinely pursuing God in those things, then, you know, you’re probably gonna struggle with dishonoring people and maybe dishonoring God at some point.

Josh: So. Yeah. Yeah. I just think we said this early on in the PA in the podcast, like if you can’t love them well, and I’m talking sacrificially, well, I’m going to generally put your interests what you’re thinking above myself and what I’m thinking, then you’re not the person to have those conversations with people.

Like you can’t get there. You’re not going to be able to live out one, this, this part of the verse, but you’re not going to live by any of these verses if you’re not going to choose to love the, like, you don’t get to correct people. Um, if you can’t love that person, then you have no right to open your mouth about that person.

Um, I’m sorry. Um, and this is probably something I’ve learned in a couple of years of like, I always felt like if you had the truth and you had the right, then you had 100%. Like everything was on your side and you got to do whatever you want it, because truth is on your side and that’s just not true.

Like we’re called to love our neighbor. And if I’m not loving my neighbor and I can’t love my neighbor, I don’t have right to correct my neighbor.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that’s kind of the heart of this whole chapter first Corinthians 13, the heart of it is like, I can do all things. I can do great things, but if I don’t have love in it, Yeah, then it’s not worth, you know, um, that’s the through line is this is, this is how to love, and this is why love matters because it does, you know, it’s good.

So, yeah, man, that’s good stuff. I didn’t know. Uh, I I’m surprised we got there, but I feel like that was. Helpful to me to process, like, what is dishonored and why is it loved? Not something. Why does love not dishonor? You know, I think that’s pretty awesome.

Josh: That’s good. I’m going to, I’m going to read those verses.

Cause I think the ones you just referenced, I think they’re good, but this comes, uh, starting verse eight, verse eight is kind of the end of the thought, but love never fails. And we read it earlier and then it says this, but where there are prophets there, where there are prophecies, they will see where the tongues, they will be stilled, where there is knowledge.

It will pass away for, we know in part and we prophesy in part, but it wouldn’t completeness comes is in the verses. I was thinking of flurries, those verses,

Andrew: Oh man. Uh, here it is. Um, starting in verse one, um, It’s the first there’s the CS

Josh: 13. Oh, it is. You’re the first one. The Stewie cut out everything right.

Just said, uh, cause that was dumb. Uh, and we’re going to go with the through line as Andrew, you would say it said, uh, and Lori read those things and I’ll, I’ll just do it because of transitions. I assume.

Andrew: Go for it.

Josh: Um, but even tag on to that, Andrew, like what you said earlier, um, um, I’m just going to read those verses.

Cause if I think it’s it’s important. Um, but this is the beginning of those verses. So the verses we read start at verse four. Love is patient, but this comes before that’s as if we speak in tongues of mins or of the angels and do not have love. I am only a resounding gong or a clanging symbol. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries, all knowledge.

And if I have faith that can move mountains, but do not love. I am nothing. If I give all my possessions to the poor, if I give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but I have not, I have not loved. I. Gain nothing. I think Paul is being extremely clear what you do, doesn’t matter, no matter how great your gifts are, they don’t matter.

I don’t care if you are a great prophet. I don’t care if you’re a great preacher. I don’t care if you’re extremely generous. I don’t care. I don’t care if he’s saying it doesn’t matter. If you do not have love, you do all those things in vain. If you do not have love all those things, don’t matter. If you do not have love, he says you are nothing.

Um, love is the key to this all like that’s the secret sauce to make this all work is. How do I love Jesus more? How do I deepen my relationship with Jesus more? And how do I love those around me in a deeper, more sacrificial way, putting them before myself. And that’s why we’re going through these verses.

Andrew: That’s right. That’s right. That’s a good word, man. And, uh, if I could leave you with one final thought, I heard a verse today that, uh, encouraged me a lot and probably perked my ears up because it’s, it has stand firm in there. And that’s one of the things that God has spoke to me in the past, but at the, towards the end of first Corinthians chapter 15 first.

58. Um, therefore my dear brothers and sisters stand firm, let nothing move. You always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that you, your labor in the Lord is not in vain. Um, just want to share that to you, man, and remind myself of that and remind anybody listening of that, because I know it’s easy to go through.

Kind of normal life, whether you’re in ministry or you’re not in ministry or you’re a parent or a student or whatever, it’s easy to go through your normal day as a Jesus follower and feel like what I’m doing is not making a difference, what I’m dedicating my myself to. And like, if you’re trying to apply these things of loving people, well, it’s easy to still get discouraged and think that’s not mattering for sure.

But, um, But remember the work that you were doing is not in vain. Uh, so all these always press on in it and, uh, yeah, that’s, that’s all I got, man. But thank you.

Josh: Thank you for this also. Definitely. You’re definitely making a difference in her choosing to love those around us. Well, yeah. Uh, Hey, we were planning.

In all honesty, uh, to get to this next section of love is not self-seeking, but let’s be honest, we’re at our limit. Uh, you’re probably sick of listening to us and, um, we’re just going to push us off until the next episode. And so next week we’ll talk about love is not self-seeking. Uh, we may hit it just, just here’s here’s our thoughts on it and then move to the next one because I’ve been looking forward to the next one.

Love is slow. To anger. I think that’s going to be fun. Not anger is a trigger for me. Um, it bothers the hell out of me. So I think that one’s going to be a fun one to dig into, but Hey Andrew,

Andrew: good to see you, man. Thanks for listening to our show. It really means a lot to us. And we hope that it helps bring you closer to your relationship with Jesus and with other people.

Josh: And it also helps us out. If you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening on the go. Also follow us on Instagram and the Facebook. Now sharing this with your friends. Isn’t just to get the word out of the podcast. We believe that we have the message of hope that’s found in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And you sharing. This has the ability to transform the lives of people around here.

Andrew: We want to hear, you can email You can message us on Facebook and Instagram, or you can just visit But seriously, thanks for that.

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