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Trusting Leads to Hurt
Episode No. 86

Conversation Six. We talk through this false thinking equation (more right behavior + less wrong behavior = good Christian). We get into what our relationship with Jesus feels like in this episode and how it has changed in our lives.

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Josh – Hello hello hello hello we’re just 2 normal dudes trying to live this jesus life. My name’s Josh.

Andrew – I hey I’m Andrew and we are this jesus life podcast and Josh by the way you were talking in that I have a feeling you might have forgotten what you were about to say how you doing my friends. Ah.

Josh – I was 100% just funny because last week you talked about not thinking about and just saying it and then I had this realization like oh wait I talk first.

Andrew – Exactly dude I’m so glad you talked first. It makes my job way easier and I know we could record this and do it live or not do it live. But honestly, it’s way more fun this way man like it makes me laugh every week in some way or another.

Josh – Oh good.

Josh – I Agree it is. It’s weird and it gets you in the mood when you go podcast or how you say podcast podcasts.

Andrew – Ah, dude. Yeah it does yeah podcast I Try to say it as crazy as I can every time we are this Jesus Life podcast I go big on it. You know, go big. Go big.

Josh – White. Do it Howard I was gonna ask you life is good. Weather’s amazing. So if you can hear I have a pretty good microphone so mine I pick it up but my windows are all open and I’m not closing them because it’s too nice outside.

Andrew – How are you dude how’s life. Yeah.

Andrew – Um, nice.

Josh – We’re going to record with windows open today. How are you.

Andrew – Well, that is a win dude I’m good. It’s beautiful and and I know we were just talking about stopping you know at a decent time and I’m stoked to get outside Josh you’ll appreciate this. So. 1 hobby I have this time of year is ah hunting for morallle mushrooms which if you like mushrooms morlls are like amazingly delicious. So I had my best start to the morale season ever this year ah last year I think I found. 12 or 13 total. Um, granted I only looked in the woods behind my house and not that much this year like last weekend on on Friday I found ah 20 morelles. Um, and then I found one more. Yesterday. So I’m up to 21 on the season and we actually used all 20 of those and made an awesome morrell and pesto pizza on Saturday and dude I’m just excited. We got some rain we got warm weather coming in right now I’m going to be finding some morelles this weekend Lord willing. And making something delicious with them. So there’s my there’s my random hobby you might not have known about that I get excited about in the spring.

Josh – Where do you are you telling them? are you telling me? we’ve already had this conversation. Do you remember this? we did I’m pretty sure it was on the podcast.

Andrew – Wait. We talked about morells when did we talk about Morells and the fact. Okay, maybe we talked about morell’s last spring on the podcast but I have not told you I found 20 morelles no no, well maybe maybe.

Josh – No like within the last couple of weeks that’s true that’s new information.

Andrew – Maybe I told you I was excited because they were about to come out but I I hadn’t found any until last Friday well I was talking about the merits of hunting morelles with tiny children because you get they got that low center of gravity. Okay, so you knew about my hobby. my bad my bad but

Josh – No remember you were hunting for it with your daughter and she’s lower to the ground.

Josh – Yeah. Um, yeah, well like that’s true. That’s True. 2020 is impressive. Is there like a competition and in in your in your area like who can find the most.

Andrew – You did not know I had my best season start ever because that just happened that just happened I’m on the board with 21. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, man Only between only between my brother and I there’s no reward or prize or anything just some pride ah last year he stumbled Upon. Ah, yeah, bragging rights bragging rights? Yeah yeah.

Josh – If there’s not you should start one just so you can win.

Josh – Bragging that bragging rights with your brother is is gold. You can’t beat that.

Andrew – Yeah, except last year he stumbled up on a honey hole and found like 150 at 1 time so this year he’s found zero so far so I’m on the board with 21 Caleb where you at bro where you at yeah man, you’re right.

Josh – That’s funny. That’s funny, nice and just engines fun for mushrooms.

Andrew – I Did tell you some of that. But but some of that’s also new. Yeah, how are you I Guess any any random hobbies you have in the spring that you don’t do otherwise or not so much. But.

Josh – Spring Hobbies Ah no I don’t have any I don’t I don’t know if I have a ton of hobbies like that’s my problem. My problem is I get into something for a little while and then I don’t ever do it again and I try to spend as much money on it in that small season as possible.

Andrew – Yeah, right.

Josh – That’s my problem. So maybe my hobby is coming up with new expensive hobbies and only participating with them for two weeks and then giving up.

Andrew – Right? so.

Josh – That’s probably it. It’s all I got now. It’s just a lot more walks with my dog outside because it’s amazing outside. That’s really, that’s really up these days. This is I Always forget? Yeah I Always forget like this is the best time of year I Always forget how much I love spring into summer.

Andrew – So nice hey that’s still a good thing time outside is is good. Yeah. It is. It’s amazing. It’s amazing. Yeah, nothing better, especially in Colorado after a cold winter. Yeah, you shut it down. No heat. You know, no heat anymore crack the windows. It’s.

Josh – I love summertime like nothing better. Got to turn on the air conditioning for the first time. Yeah.

Andrew – It’s something else. It’s what’s up. Yeah man, dude let’s let’s stop talking about the seasons and morelles. What are we doing here bro. This is our sixth sixth or seventh time doing this. What are we up to today.

Josh – Yeah, so we’re in the middle of series. We’re calling conversations and the goal of conversations is um to foster relationship and community so you can be fully known and know somebody else fully. Um, so it’s 10 conversations that um. Ah, wouldn’t say progressively get more vulnerable but like progressively get deeper in in some way or another um, really circled around how we interact and view god from a worldview perspective. Because it it frames so much of how we engage in this life with with others and with people. Um, so we’ve talked through family of origin stories. We’ve talked through kind of our our spiritual stories with god and milestones and those kinds of things we’ve talked through our childhoods a little bit.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, and now we’re talking through kind of this next step about pleasing god or trusting god and in kind of what camp we we typically sit in as we interact with god but um, there’s some rules that we kind of live by Andrew and I break the first rule of of this whole thing which is you know.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Create a safe space or keep it confidential. You know what’s said between you guys make sure stays between you guys. But Andrew and I are doing this on a podcast with listeners so we break that 1 pretty quick but we we try to honor it like we want to model this for you guys that are listening so we try to be as honest, we possibly can without harming relationship and.

Andrew – Right? right.

Josh – What I mean by that is you know there’s we’re you know we’re we’re in relationship with a lot of people in general because we all are and we don’t want to harm those things by sharing something that maybe they didn’t want share so we try to keep it. Um, just us and thankfully a lot of these conversations can stay that way. Yeah, we can you know, especially today’s conversation

Andrew – Right? right.

Josh – We can keep it inside of just talking about ourselves without involving others and that’s kind of where we’re at, but this conversations this is conversation number 6 and just texts me and said he’s got some crazy noise for a minute that he’s going to mute for so I’m just going to carry it along. But before we do or dive into this next conversation we want to share with you a resource that we think is great. You hear us talk about foster relationship with god on a pretty regular basis on this podcast I think it’s numerro uno. Most important thing that you do in this life is how you foster relationship with god. Um god plays by relationship rules. You build relationship with god in very similar ways you build relationship with people. Um, you’ve got to spend time with him and one of the ways you can spend time with him is is reading his already recorded word and letting that be a jump off point for conversation. What we call prayer with god and one of a great resources called dwell. Um, duwell is a passionate audio bible app. Um, that will read the bible to you by people that actually care and are passionate about scripture and having those types of relationships with god so if you haven’t had a chance to check it out yet. You can go to this jesus life podcast dot com forward Slash Dowell this cheeselifepodcast dot com for it slash dwell and that will get you to a link just heads up so you know we do get a little bit of kickback when you do sign up through them. But we also wouldn’t recommend something. We don’t think is valuable to help you kickstart your relationship and foster relationship with Jesus so check it out.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Right? right? right? And okay, last thing we figure we figure you you like audio stuff because you’re listening to the art podcast If you’re hearing this. So yeah, go check it out for real.

Josh – This jesus life podcast dot com forward slash. Well nice Andrew go ahead and.

Andrew – And you can always do a a free trial with dwell to see if you like kind of what they put together. So yeah, helps us out a little bit and it’s also something designed entirely to help us just connect with God and and it’s always hard to do but super important to do So Yeah man. I Might have my high toddler talking to the background. So you know I’m gonna kick to you while you set this question up. My friend.

Josh – Nice First question is this? Um, why is it? Why is it often more comfortable to live by this equation right? Behavior plus less wrong behavior equals godliness. So more right behavior plus less wrong behavior equals godliness why do you think we fall into the cycles and.

Andrew – Dude can I tell you can I tell you a story or ah, okay so I traveled for work recently and I was coming back from the airport and I wrote in uber and I was talking to this guy. Who was from Morocco he was telling me that and he had immigrated recently from there and he happened to mention like ah man I’ve been so thirsty and I’m like what’s going on and I didn’t realize it was ramadan but ah he mentioned it and anyway like he was talking about. Um, what it’s like to be a muslim and I was just curious. You know like what is that what is that like and something he said stuck out to me where he’s like yeah I’m a muslim but I’m not in good standing because I I don’t go to the mosque 5 times a day during ramadan and prey. I don’t even pray 5 times a day I try to a couple times but I can’t get to 5 so I’m not in good standing and like we do this too as christians of like here’s the super measurable things that make me a good christian you know like here’s the things I can tangibly do. Read my bible every day give give money to the church. Give my tithe all of that. Um, but but basically like the thing that’s sorry Katherine’s coffin in the back. But the thing that stuck out.

Josh – M.

Josh – Thing’s just gonna die so much of checkman.

Andrew – She’s okay, she’s right behind Me. She’s good and she didn’t want to drink water but like but I think this comes down to like when you measure am I in good standing with God Whether whether you view God from the Christian perspective or you’re a muslim and you’re saying you know V in it that way. Not trying to throw shade at muslims like I’m just saying like that was a that was an example that stood out where he’s like I’m not in good standing because I’m not doing this behavior you know and we do that too like because it’s like I can measure that.

Josh – 5

Andrew – I can measure how many dollars I’m giving I can measure how many times I’m going to volunteer and serve you can measure if I go to church every Sunday and how many weeks I miss a year how many times I read my bible um like man that cough doesn’t sound good but you can measure. You can measure those things and and it’s a lot easier than what like what god calls us to which is really heart change and and your your behavior changes after that because your heart changed like god calls us deeper into like Jesus says come and follow me. You know and then like live like me carry your cross like I did that’s way harder because it’s not measurable. It’s not that like how am I doing percentage this year versus last year it’s like no let your whole heart change um as you pursue me let me change your heart as you pursue me and walk like I walked um, it’s just a lot harder. You know it’s heart change versus behavior. So that’s what struck me about that I don’t know if that resonates with you or if you have different.

Josh – Yeah.

Andrew – Takes on it but Behavior is easy to measure and and and last thing that’s what I’d call religion versus relationship is like is my behavior Super easy to measure is is my scorecard easy to fill out and how I’m doing with God like when I’m thinking through that mindset. That’s when I’m being religious versus being in relationship with god.

Josh – yeah yeah I think I think it’s more comfortable for us because it’s something we have full control over at least there’s a ah sense that we do like if I behave better if I do less bad things then I’m more godliness like it’s 100 % about control um like I can do those things where like this relation with god and where godliness comes into play like so much of it is outside of our control like you know we’ve talked about this before on the podcast but like the sanctification process the process of changing your character to be more like Christ. Like that whole process is is led by Jesus. It’s not led by you. It’s not Europe. It’s not based on your ability to do you know more good things and less bad things. It has everything do with your ability to foster relationship with Jesus and in the midst of that relationship. Be an active participant and do what he says um and he’s going to work you through that process.

Andrew – I yeah.

Josh – Um, so like I think the aim just gets off and godliness like shoot you got no access to godlineliness without Jesus sacrifice of the cross anyway, so good luck. But I think it is just control and I think there’s why so many? um religions and christianity included in this go down those paths is well I can control these things I can’t control the rest of those things.

Andrew – So right right.

Andrew – So yeah, right, right.

Josh – Um, and that’s scary to us like we don’t We don’t want to go down those rooms because I don’t I don’t know where it’s going to lead me I don’t know what it’s going to have me do like where you get down those scary places and in in the reality is like even the most mean well you know melt.

Andrew – Right? right.

Josh – Well-meaning christians and Christian leaders and um disciple makers can get people on this path without realizing if they’re on the like you got them on this path like you can talk about relationship. You can talk about with Jesus and what that’s like and then you know so you know quickly we start talking about certain behaviors. Um, and changing those behaviors and then you know we’re already off the path and then it just compounds from there but I really think it comes down to control for us and that’s why that equation is a better equation for us that we like it and we’re comfortable with it because I could control it and when I don’t control it I can blame myself for it.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Like you could have ah a sin that you’ve been dealing with for a long time and you know habitual sin you keep going back to and you can get frustrated and beat yourself up about it. But the reality is without Christ. You have no power over it anyways. So let him lead the process and maybe he’s not working on that specific thing right now he’s working on 3 other things that are more important. Um for your character growth. Um, that will actually affect that thing but not not directly. That’s gonna be indirect so when you do go to tackle that sin as he you know starts to guide you through it. It’s actually easier to tackle and overcome for you because you’ve already done the rewiring in your mind you need to do before you got there. So I think that’s part of its its control. We.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Always it always comes back control in most things like right like who’s who’s in control. Your life is is Jesus or is it you and and this kind of leads to the rest of these questions from today of this idea of where we trying to please god and let him be the control. You know in control are we trying are we going to trust god and let him be in full control.

Andrew – Yeah, you.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Well and dude right? along with that. Well I was just going to say one of the like supporting scriptures of this type of conversation is galatians 22 says I’ve been crucified with Christ and I no longer live but Christ lives in me.

Josh – Um, but yeah I don’t know if you have any other thoughts.

Andrew – Life I live in the body I live by faith in the son of god who loved me and gave himself up for me, you know, but it’s that like it takes it out of I’m living for me and like no I’m living my life for god and and it comes back to that control like you were talking about and and man. Yeah, it’s at times it’s it’s tempting to to just slip into the like I know we’re gonna talk about this in a minute but it’s tempting to slip into the I’m gonna do this and check this box and call it good for the day or the week or the month or year and and that’s it but like man. God didn’t call us into religion. He called us into a relationship with him through Jesus’s sacrifice um, not not into go and do these things and find the religious loopholes you want to do the other things that don’t please me, you know, like that’s the let’s the that’s why. Christianity gets such a negative rap in my opinion is like when we start living really religious. That’s when that’s when we we start looking for the loopholes of like how can I how can I sneak one through and still be religious. How can I do the thing I really wanted to do. That’s not god’s will. And and just be religious the whole time. So I still look good. You know, yeah man.

Josh – You? Yeah yeah, Well, you know that’s that’s a good portion of it too right? like these are the masks that we put on and we’ve talked about this before in these conversations like I put on this mask them better than I actually am but mask keep us separated relationally not just from others but from God as well and not because. God can’t overcome or engage in those places but because he’s gonna honor what we put into it. So if you know it’s the whole things of like God will give you the desires of your heart um to some extent even if those desires aren’t him like he’ll I’ll give you what you want.

Andrew – So yeah.

Josh – Um, or like or at least let you have what you want, Maybe it doesn’t engage in giving it to you but I think that plays into this as well that you know if if you want to put on the mask and you want to fake it God will let you do it and you just miss out on the fullness of life. You could be having now.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, and not just for the future. But yeah next question Andrew what is the mask that you are attempted to wear when your primary driver is to please god rather than to trust god.

Andrew – I yeah.

Andrew – Oh man. Um, so when we just talked about you know it’s the it’s the doing rather than um, rather than than being it’s the I’m doing all these things. So god is happy with me and pleased with me versus. Um. I’m I’m behaving as one who’s loved by god and and following him sincerely you know, um, sorry Katherine is she’s not feeling good. Um, yeah man I I don’t know what mask that is in name. But I guess the mask of religion is is the thing I can be tempted to fall into. Um I’m being honest and and I I know that about myself I’ve been trying to follow trying to get to know and live as ah as a follower of god for long enough to. To know that like that’s my default when I shift into like autopilot I guess um is just doing doing doing and not really letting my heart be open to what god might lead me towards so yeah man, the mask of religion I’ll say um. But about you What’s what’s the mask that you’re tempted to fall into or are put on not fall into that’s like Christian ease. What’s the mask you’re willing to you’re you’re quick to put on when you’re just trying to please god a friend.

Josh – Yeah I think it’s it’s probably pride. Um, and this is what I mean by that and there may be a different way to say it I just don’t have better language but like you get in this weird game of like god look at all the good I’ve done for you. In comparison to all the bad that I’ve done for you like 1 definitely outweighs the other like you should whatever because of this you should love me more. You should give this to me. You should whatever, whatever, whatever it and I think. I think those worlds are dangerous because it’s not necessary the world that god lives in like this relationship is sure your your character is at play here and and god’s trying to develop your character. You know, don’t let your character outpace your behavior type of thing. But. Like the conversation isn’t about um necessary or behavior like and I’ve I’ve shared this before but a lot of my prayers these days like they just feel a lot more like counseling sessions than than they do like prayers of the past like they don’t feel like.

Andrew – Um, yeah, um.

Josh – Um, working through a list and I need to pray for these people and they need to confess my sins and I got to think of all the sins that I can remember so I can confess these things and I need to do this. Oh I need to tell God How awesome he is and right like we and we all learn those things and those aren’t bad things like like it’s a great starting point to teach people how to pray. But it’s not the end goal and that’s.

Andrew – Right? right.

Josh – That’s the key that we need to kind of be sharing and this is true of so many things about the Christian faith is like we I think we sell a lot of things as this is the end goal like if you attend church and give that’s the end goal. You’re a good Christian you’re like no, that’s like that’s so early like that’s not even we’re not even close to the end goal with that.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Like that’s just getting you engaged that doesn’t even actually affect necessarily your your discipleship journey with Jesus and being a true disciple of him. So I think that’s probably the mask I put on is like I start to weigh the pros and the cons like look how much good I’m doing for you god like I should I should get something.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh – Um, I’m trying to think too like appeasing. Um, yeah I Guess it’s just transactional more than anything else is the mass that I’m trying to put on like I’m doing all the right things so you bless me kind of transactional mindset. But it’s transactional in other ways too like.

Andrew – Him Yeah here he. Great.

Josh – Um, um, um, what could it be? um and I don’t even know how to like you know I guess I guess we can all We can all think of a ah friend or someone we know that our relationship with them is transactional right? Like they’re getting something out of it.

Andrew – Um, right? yeah.

Josh – And that’s why we had do it and that’s really the only time they engage with us. It’s kind of like that. It’s not real relationship. We’re not trying to know each other better and we’re not trying to to truly support one another. We’re not trying to encourage each other for the sake of just who they are and their character and we’re doing it from the sake of I’m getting something in return.

Andrew – Bright rate.

Josh – And I think so often when when we’re just trying to please God I Think that’s that’s where I end up is like I’m just trying to get what I want out of God and if this is the right? you know? maybe this is the right change I’m putting in the vending machine. So I get what I want. Um I think.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – That’s where we I think oftentimes it’s where we went up and the crazy part of of even why we go down those roads in the first place like the crazy part is you’re never gonna measure up like there’s always gonna be more you’re doing wrong? Um, so like that’s just a that’s just a beat down of a life where you’re like I don’t want to play that game with god like I’m never.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah, right right? It is it really is yeah.

Josh – Go to be good enough. It’s never going to be right? I’m never gonna do check all the right boxes at the right time and I’m always gonna be a failure so you know rather than that let me live in my grit in the other grace that you provided through the cross and and and just learn how to trust you more rather than try to please you all the time. But I think pleasing God also comes from.

Andrew – In here.

Andrew – Yeah man.

Josh – You know how our parents parent in general. Not just our parents specifically but in general like that’s how we parent 9 times out of 10 is you know, please me you know do what I want you to do and we teach our kids to do that because it’s it’s easier than creating environments for no no no I want to create a trusting environment.

Andrew – Who. Um, yeah.

Andrew – Um, yeah, yeah.

Josh – And this place I had a friend ask me yesterday and I didn’t know how to answer and and I don’t think I have a good answer yet either because I just I don’t know I don’t have the proper I was praying about it last night I don’t have the proper language to explain it. But this is how I got close to it like when I’m living in a place where I’m trying I’m just trying to trust god.

Andrew – Um, yeah, um.

Josh – The question that it asked me is like what does it feel like like when you’re talking to God and God talks to you? What is that talking to you feel like and and the best example I could come up with and I think I showed this on a podcast couple weeks ago, but my dad used to take naps all the time he probably.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – He doesn’t take yeah I guess he still take snaps but I remember like every afternoon my dad is on the couch you know, taking a nap and I remember like as a little kid just like crawling up onto the couch and just laying with him and just sitting in his arms and I was like it feels like that like when I’m when God talks to me. That’s how it feels like it’s not this big booming God is.

Andrew – Yeah, that’s cool.

Josh – Distant It’s not this audible voice I don’t hear like it’s just this sense of like I’m I’m sitting with God and you know my dad’s telling me a story in my ear or whatever like that’s how it feels I feel safe I feel I get to be me I feel like.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – Behavior isn’t in the equation right now not on a on a scale of good. You know you know list of you know goods and bads I’m just God loves me because of his and that’s how when I know I’m I’m in a trusting place with God That’s how it feels.

Andrew – Yeah, who. Yeah, yeah, man and it’s ah it’s not It’s not accusatory like that’s that’s such a good That’s such a good like analogy you put out there and story you put with it because it’s it’s comfortable. It’s like full of trust it’s I don’t know. It’s it’s where you you know where you know you can be um, yeah yeah, man, that’s pretty awesome. So continuing on that track and I know this is only our it’s our last question of this conversation but take it where we will. You know But if you trusted god more fully. How would that affect your day-to-day life Josh like where would where would that take you to trust god more fully.

Josh – Yeah, um, so if you were to trust God more fully. So The result of that I think circumstances of life wouldn’t sway you I think even if they’re horrific. Even if they’re really bad. Um, and there’s a motion that comes with that I’m not saying you wouldn’t have a motion towards those things but I am saying like um, but you know your your world wouldn’t you know collapse on Itself. You wouldn’t feel hopeless Like. You’re looking at whatever those circumstances may be and in you know in the back of your mind or even at the forefront of your mind. It’s yeah God’s still in control like nothing changes God and I are still good and you know he’s going to walk me through this no matter how hard it’s going to get.. He’s going to walk me through this. Um, So I think there’s part of that That’s at play here. Um I think too I’m trying to think more practical ways of of how it plays out. Um, um, you you would definitely be spending more time with God than you are now if you were trusting God and we talked about this a few weeks back and. Hopefully it was a practice that people went through or ah exercise that people went through of like if you don’t spend time with God There’s are probably good Chances. You don’t like God there’s a character trait that you’ve applied to God and I would argue if you don’t like it. It’s probably not true of God. If It’s harm a relationship now if it’s like God doesn’t let me you know, smoke crack and purchase hookers. That’s a different story like like that’s that’s a different issue that’s at play but like there could be a character thing that you’ve applied to God if this is God’s Character. That’s just not true of God and I think that plays into this as Well. Like.

Andrew – And right sure great. So.

Josh – You’re gonna want to spend more time with him because you know who he is You know how much he loves you? Um, you know the grace that he shows you constantly, but even in the midst of that grace like he’s still there. He’s still pushing you forward. He’s still helping you work on your character. He’s still all the things that a good perfect father would do are. You know are are at Play. So You know how it affect your life. You’re Confident. You’re more confident than you you would have been before you’re willing to take more risks in life because of that confidence like because of that security you’re like yeah I can I could push it a little bit more. Yeah I could be more honest or or you know vocal and in this conversation or.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Yeah I can I can chase after that dream I didn’t think was possible and because you just you know we all know those places like you get to those places like you know there’s there’s that weird confidence that like you feel like you can take on the world just because like maybe it’s because somebody’s in your corner. Maybe it’s just because you’re in an environment where it fosters that like you have real community so you feel safe and.

Andrew – Yes, here.

Josh – And you’re willing to chase take you know chase and take tackle those things or like you feel fully accepted or or you know you you feel fully incurred whatever like there’s plenty of things inside of us that like push us to that that that place where you’re like yeah I can take on anything right now like that kind of confidence I think would be at play with you every day.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Relationship things wouldn’t shake you I think that’s probably where a majority of our our our Strife comes from in our day-to-day life is is probably inside relationships or money those probably the 2 biggies but like those things wouldn’t have a huvek the purpose that you would live with because you know you found something. That others you know, haven’t found yet or experienced yet and you have this opportunity to like let me show you what it’s like to live a life trusting God rather just trying to please the guy up in the clouds like there’s that piece of it too that starts to just multiply on you I think is at play as well. Yeah I don’t.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – You know you’re yeah, you’re more honest with people of who you are with the good and the bad like you’re just going to be you. You’re not putting on any mass like you’re comfortable and confident anxiety is not a thing it always goes back to like when um, Jesus met the woman at the well. Um I don’t know the reference I’ll top my head but I’ll grab it from Matthew and and John but when when the woman at the well and and Jesus tells her I’m going to give you living why living water and she asked what is this living water and you know he responds with you know it’s water. You’ll never thirst again.

Andrew – I Yeah sure.

Josh – And I think that’s that’s relationship with God like it’s this piece of like man I’ve taught this before too like um yeah, you have you have high seasons and low seasons with God like there’s downtime and there’s up times and like you know in those downtime that is time when when um God is testing your faith.

Andrew – To who? yeah.

Josh – At this point I think it’s all bullshit I Don’t think that’s true I don’t think that you have to go through the low times Now there’s gonna be times that test your faith in other ways circumstances will test your faith relationships will test your faith but you and God I don’t think he pulls his presence I don’t think that’s a part of the equation I think that’s that’s our own doing.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah I think you’re right? yeah.

Josh – Um, I think if he’s telling you he’s going to give you water that you’ll never thirst again. That’s not just salvation. That’s that’s water in general, you’re you’re never going to thirst again if you continue a fossil relationship with Jesus he’s going to engage with you more and more every day and as as you journey and as you understand new things about who god is and how to engage him.

Andrew – ME.

Josh – Differently and better. It’s just going to get deeper of relationship like you just think of like those couples that have been married for you know, sixty years and just the love that they have for 1 another like I saw video on Instagram where ah, um, the wife yells to the husband and they’re probably in their eighty s or 90 s.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – And she goes give me a kiss and he goes I’ll give you a kiss. But I don’t want all that I don’t want one of those sloppy kisses. You just saw the love for the 2 and she’s like can I get a hug while you give me a kiss and he’s like absolutely it’s just like those moments of like yeah like as you walk with people and you’re fully known by those people and the same thing as god.

Andrew – X Ah, ah yeah.

Josh – You walk with God Sure God fully knows you but he plays the game of of developing a relationship and you know getting you on on on a better place of knowing him and you get to that place where yeah, it’s just you know I don’t it just it’s a deep. It’s a deep love that that.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – I think we only find we choose to trust in god and trust god in relationship being fully vulnerable and honest rather than trying to play this game of transactional pleasing god but I know that was a long answer and I went to all these random things. But how about you Andrew if you were trusting god more fully how that affect your daily life.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – No, no, no, that’s it’s really good man and my daughter’s not feeling very good. So I’ve been muted. She’s coughing a bunch which stinks. But um, so thanks for for running with it like it’s awesome. That was all really good stuff. The only thing. I would add to it is like in times where I’m trusting god more fully I notice like there’s not There’s not really worry in my life. Um, that’s not something that can really like find a foothold or like stay with me very long worry just kind of like dissipates. You know. Ah, it’s it’s like yeah and with that it’s not just like where he’s gone. It’s like I feel more free and more full and present. You know like people talk about how to be present all the time and there’s like a million books out there about it especially now like. All the digital connection and how it takes away our presence and all this stuff and a lot of it’s true. But when I’m when I’m trusting god I’m not worried about things down the road. You know it’s like I’m I’m living out um living out what’s said where it’s like don’t worry about tomorrow each day has trouble of its own. You know, don’t worry about things you can’t control. Um, and yeah and yeah man that’s ah, that’s the biggest thing is no worry comes into my life. It’s just like yeah I trust that god. Is in control and and he’s given me stuff that I can focus on today but I don’t need to worry about and and when I’m when I’m not trusting god those worries stack up a lot more um about future decisions I don’t have to make yet or things that are going to happen that I don’t know if they’ll actually happen. Like no god is is in control god loves me god has a plan for my life. He’ll show up when he needs to show up in my life to guide those decisions and speak into those things and man. It’s just a better way to live and it’s a lot lighter way to live and it’s what I what I want all the time. But it’s not It’s not how I live all the time there are times where I’m not trusting god as much and I’m more focused on what I can do and when I slip into that mindset when I’m like staying in that mindset of my behavior trying to please god like we talked about um. Notice I find myself a lot more worried about a lot more things and um, you know and to bring it all back a whole lot less present in in what I’m doing in the moment and probably less useful to god or missing opportunities that god would put in front of me and just kind of.

Andrew – Blowing past him because I’m worried about something else or my mind’s not there or whatever or my heart’s just not engaged enough to listen to whatever he wants to tell me. So yeah, man, that’s that’s the 1 thing I would add to that is is when I’m trusting god I’m a lot less worried about tomorrow and.

Josh – Yeah.

Josh – Yeah, yeah, those are always good indicators for us to know where where we’re playing like because it’s not like it’s not you flip a switch and all of a sudden. You’re no longer just trying to please God that you’re trusting God like the switch goes on and off you go in and out of the lane till you you.

Andrew – Ah month from now and year from now you know.

Andrew – Right.

Josh – You know, learn how to do it better Whoa I Just like took my microphone out. Um, really screwed that one up. Um, so I think ah like give yourself grace. Um, but I think those are those are good indicators right? Like the last thing you said before I screwed my microphone. Um.

Andrew – And he.

Josh – To remember worrying like if you find yourself with a lot of anxiety well like anxiety’s always coming back to trust like who you putting your trust in and that’s where anxiety starts to to form itself like that’s a good indicator for us I’m starting to feel anxiety about a certain thing. You’re like oh I’m not not trusting God in this thing I’m.

Andrew – Right.

Josh – Um, worrying about it I’m playing all the scenarios out my head. Um, um, whatever, whatever, whatever like there’s that I think those are those are good indications to to watch out for um to know that we’re we’re starting to drift back to playing just this religious game of pleasing God and making sure there’s more good checkmarks than bad Check marks. Um, it’s worth and you know for those listening like you know I think it’s worth here’s a good exercise and and dig into this but like think through your life and try to identify one area like a specific area of life where you’ve been working really hard to please God Whether you’ve been successful at it or not but like.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Scenario You’re just keep like you’re just trying to please him or keep pleasing him. Um with it like maybe it’s your temper. Maybe you’re trying to be a good parent. Maybe it’s controlling sexual sin. Maybe it’s you know, practicing certain disciplines. Um you know, spiritual disciplines like it could be a variety of different things. Maybe it’s how you engage with with your neighbors or your family and. Not treating them like you know they’re nothing or not showing them value. Whatever those areas are that you’re trying to please God and and kind of think through that and what’s your typical behavior in those situations like what’s your typical methodology to to fight the sin or to um.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – Overcome or to do better. Whatever it is and and think through that now that you have that kind of image in your head start to imagine what it would look like if you switch the main driver to trusting God in that area instead of trying to just to please God in that area. Um, so it’s we’ll use sexual sin As an example.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – You can focus a lot on sexual sin and you could fight a pretty good game um to fight against sexual sin. There’s plenty of research out there on how to fight it on your own but it is exhausting. You do give in from time to time like it comes to the territory but instead of it looking at it from that perspective it saying God I’m going to trust you with this I’m going to trust that. Um.

Andrew – Right? right? right.

Josh – You wanted out of my life more than I wanted out of my life and and you want it to me to find freedom from this thing because of you know the destruction that it causes in my life and the lives of those around me but I’m going to trust God you in in the process of how it gets fixed.

Andrew – Great.

Josh – Um, so I don’t know exactly what the right next step is right now God Um, but I’m willing to talk it out and then it’s it’s talking it out when this happens or when these things happen I feel this way I think these things like it’s that type like you’re starting a conversation of like God I’m no longer in control of fixing this Um, you’re in control of fixing this.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Um, I’m an actor participant I Play I play a key role because it’s my life. But God you’re gonna guide me through it and we’re gonna talk about the things that you want to talk about that surround it and God Whatever those things are like I’m open and I’m gonna be honest about him and I’ll be vulnerable like I told a ah friend not that long ago like. I’m talking with God and this isn’t every day like this would be exhausting if it was every day but like if I know it’s a real conversation. Um, and I need to be honest with God about that conversation like if I don’t feel exposed in the midst of it I’m not doing it right? right? Like if I’m if I don’t feel like oh I’m I’m vulnerable right now like not vulnerable like.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah.

Josh – That So but like I’m exposed. It’s like when your your dog’s taken a poop right? and he’s like making D buy contact with you because he’s like I’m exposed like it’s that feeling of exposure that you should be feeling That’s a good feeling especially in safe relationship. It’s so a really bad feeling and bad toxic relationships but in a safe relationship with God That’s a good feeling.

Andrew – Um, right? right? right? yeah. Great.

Josh – Lean into that feeling. Um and and let God start to to reveal things and and start to to cut away things that are taking you down your temper issues or or taking you down you know, being impatient with your with your kids and snapping at them and um, like let them start to deal and some of these things like doing’t get wrong Some of these things are big things.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – Like it’s not going to fix overnight God’s going to do a lot of work. There’s probably a lot of underlying baggage that God’s got to wrestle through with you and and help you understand and how they’re all connected to get you freedom Ultimately from those things but like it’s a journey and the journey changes of God I Trust you with this like you’re in control of this now.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – I’m Goingnna engage with you? Um, not to fix necessary this but I’m gonna engage with you around this knowing if I keep foster relationship with you. These things are going to deal with themselves I’m going to be honest when they when they do come up I’ll be honest, um when I’m in the midst of them and trying to fight them off I want to talk about those things and we’ll talk about my thoughts around it.

Andrew – Yeah.

Andrew – Yeah.

Josh – With you I Want to talk about my feelings around it with you I talk about my fears around it with you and I want to trust you with it All. So I Want to give it all to you and that’s that’s not Easy. It’s hard but like that’s that’s a great exercise to practice like this is what it feels like to trust God It’s not easy like Sure. He’s perfect and. You know he’s you know he’s ah trustworthy and worthy of that Trust. But at the same time like we’re so distrusting people. It’s easier for us to slip into pleasing God and just doing the the bare minimum checking all the boxes and I feel we’re good with God rather than really engaging. Relationally um with God That’s that’s a hard.

Andrew – Um, yeah.

Josh – That’s a hard hard hard lesson to learn. But I find it extremely fruitful and I wouldn’t want to do any other way now that I understand it.

Andrew – Yeah, yeah, and man my final thought is this like getting practical. You were talking about markers you know of like markers of anxiety or worry. Yeah, you were talking. Oh no did I cut out.

Josh – I was talking and then Andrew cut out Andrew you there. Oh there, you’re back I think you’re back hi Andrew yeah.

Andrew – Am I gone hey I’m still here. Yeah yeah, no I was just saying my final thought final thought is this like man ah look for those markers in your life if you’re listening and I’m gonna do this too like for me I was talking about worry being a real one and and man. There might be some others that come up for for different people. So ask god like what are the markers in my life I should watch out for and he’ll tell you he’ll show up he will he will reveal those to you and those can be your kind of warning signs of like I’m not trust in god how I should and I want to change that. So. Josh my friend thanks for doing this as always It’s been awesome to hang out with you.

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