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Episode No. 28

Forgiveness is hard, but it’s benefits are for you as the forgiver. Loving others is Jesus’ command that brings the full life to fruition and we can’t love them if we can’t forgive them. This week we talk about the importance for ourselves to forgive in this life.

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Verses – 1 Corinthians 13.
Verses – John 10:10.
Resource – BestSelf Icebreaker Cards.


Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this jesus’ life. My name’s Josh.

Andrew: Hey. I’m Andrew and we are this Jesus life podcast. Josh, how you doing? My friend,

Josh: dude? I’m doing so good. We’re talking about a naughty list. Apparently

Andrew: like naughty lists, you know, like Santa Claus, it’s almost Christmas.

Josh: That’s fair. That’ll make a lot more sense than we dive into our topic. I guess it just sounded weird when you said it. I thought it was funny. It’s that eighth grade humor again? Yeah. Um, yeah, it will be, uh, it’ll be, uh, it will be interesting. We get to the conversation, but right now it’s just a, just a straight up naughty list and we’ll get plenty of those people reaching out and telling us that, you know, our, our titles to things have a sexual innuendo to them.

And we’ll say maybe just to you now, because you’re a sexual

Andrew: gunner

Josh: and that’s on you. Not me. Yeah,

Andrew: it is on them. It is on them. And Josh, your screen just went. Are you, did you just put a green screen in front of you? I know people. You can’t see Josh if you’re listening, but his picture is all green till I think he put a green screen up.

Josh: Is it

Andrew: straight up? Nope. Oh, you’re back. You’re back. Woo.

Josh: That was cool. My network does say it’s very bad now. It’s just bad. Not very bad. Nice. I don’t know what it is. I think. My wifi just doesn’t like my computer because it just sucks too much data. So I think it’s limiting my bandwidth. Um, because from your phone, I still get like 200 down or whatever.

And you’re like, well, that’s weird that this is fine, but this isn’t, um, dude, who knows. And then my. My webcam does like to do freaky, freaky things.

Andrew: You’re basically being censored. You’re being oppressed in this moment. I probably

Josh: wouldn’t being censored, freaking Twitter, putting, putting facts on the screen there.

Andrew: Yeah. All the most fun things to talk about are things that are not factual. You know,

Josh: you’re

Andrew: just totally like, I don’t know. This might be true.

Josh: Uh, yeah, we’re not trying to, they get political. There’s probably is voter fraud. I don’t know.

Andrew: I was going to say the earth is probably flat because you can’t prove the curve.

Yeah. Premiere

Josh: is true.

Andrew: So

Josh: Elon Musk can prove it for us. Cause you know, he said it in the space and we believe him

Andrew: tell you the conspiracy theory of that. You remember a while back, they launched a Tesla Roadster into the, into space. And there’s a conspiracy theory that got a lot of traction, that it was like his ex-girlfriend or ex-wife had gone missing a while before that.

And pushed people were like, she’s in the trunk of the car.

Josh: Yeah. I don’t even,

Andrew: I don’t know if that holds

Josh: true. Um, like I don’t man. Whew. That what’s going on. ILA must have that. He’s like. Yeah. That’s how I would get rid of her. Put her on the train.

Andrew: That’s the most reasonable way to do it. Just put the body in outer space and even to be found a hundred years from now or something.

Josh: Yeah. They find it like, Oh yeah. Elon Musk. The, the ruler of the universe. Yeah. He was sent his wife or ex-wife or whatever

Andrew: to see us.

Josh: Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. So that

Andrew: dude, but that would give me a sensor. That’s all I’m trying to say.

Josh: Um, that is true. That would get you censored, but let’s be honest, like, depending on, no matter how this election pans out, whether you, you take the stance of the mass media and say that, but I didn’t want already, or take the position of Trump and say the election was a scam.

Um, Say it ends up in court and Trump does end up winning. I dunno what happens to our country if that happens? Like, yeah, like I think if a war breaks out at that point, like, I don’t know how you would stop that. I think for the sake of, yeah. Of civil war, not breaking out in our world, uh, Trump just concedes and we all move on.

Cause we’re going to hope the Republicans are gonna hold onto the Senate. So we’re never divided.

Andrew: Yeah. Either way. Yeah. I just feel like you don’t want to look to government for hope, especially like right now, it’s just another great example of that. It’s like, don’t, don’t make an idol out of Trump. Don’t make an idol out Biden.

They’re just people and let’s be real they’re politics. So there’s some there’s, there are

Josh: nine people at

Andrew: that stuff going on.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Freaking politicians. What happened to that whole? Yeah. What happened to that whole, like, just. Like theme of like, we all, we know all politicians are lying scumbags.

What happened to that? I think we don’t say that

Andrew: everybody was just like, well, he’s a liar. All these other politicians are really good. Like we all just,

Josh: for me,

Andrew: it’s like, no, dude,

Josh: they all lie. That’s what they do. They didn’t want to call. They didn’t want to call the black president of the liar. That was the issue right there.

White people everywhere were like, ah, we can’t serve that. Um, This is probably did it, dude.

Andrew: Hey, speaking of, uh, our first question, what controversial opinions do you enjoy sharing

Josh: any, anything about politics? Think about

Andrew: politics.

Josh: Yeah, it depends on the right environment. Like I would be a lot more vocal on the internet. Uh, if I could just do it out of, of joy, of getting people riled up. But at some point I’d crossed lines, end up getting very upset, angry, um, which would not help. Um, so I avoid it, but yeah, there’s definitely a part of me or like just, can I poke the bear?

Um, just to see what happens when I poke him. Um, or can I expose anything when I poke him, sometimes you can expose some true motives, right? The bear enough. And they re you know, flip out

Andrew: thing was a bear. It just usually doesn’t end that peacefully,

Josh: you know? No. Well, that’s true, but you always poke a bear with friends, um, and particularly friends that are slower than you.

Yes. Uh, yeah. And in that case, it’s, you’re fine. You’re totally okay. You just take those friends that may be a little bit slower than you. Um, and you poke that bear hard and run, and then out of there you run. Yeah. Yeah. You just gotta make sure you’re not the one that bear catches first.

Andrew: Right? Third

Josh: then you’re good.

Andrew: I would not, I want to be eaten by a bear. That’s one of the ways that I would just really that’d be low on my list of like, Ways to die would be getting there at bear in the wild yeah.

Josh: Mountain lion, any, any really like predator in the wild, just haul that since leaving it’s

Andrew: a mountain lion sneaks up behind you and like grabs you by the neck and is probably a lot quicker if you don’t see them coming, which you usually don’t a bear is just like, it’s going to straight up charge you, throw your round for awhile.

Like despair is a bad way to go. It’s a really bad way to

Josh: go. You’re probably going to live a lot longer with the mayor. Yeah. Yeah. So the moral of the story is if, if your enemy, uh, asks you to go into the woods to go bear, bear hunting, he would, I don’t think they’d be that clear. I think they’d be like, Hey, you want to go check out some bears?

And you’re like, uh, yeah, we don’t spend time together, but sure. Why not? Yeah. Um, and then, then he pokes that bear and you die. Moral of

Andrew: the story is if your enemy asks you to go bear hunting, you need to figure out who’s faster.

Josh: That’s the real world start running, like start doing some sprints down your street just to get, get that.

Cause it does have to be long. Like it’s, you’re not going to run forever. Yeah. Yeah, definitely stretch before leaving the car. That’s a big one, especially stretching.

Andrew: Why are you wearing Nike’s? I thought we were going to

Josh: do it. I’m just ready. I’m just ready. I’m ready. You’re like, why is your finger pointing already?

Don’t worry about it. Just ready.

Andrew: Why do you look like you’re ready to poke

Josh: something

Andrew: nothing’s going on

Josh: here? All right, Andrew, here’s my question for you. What’s a deal breaker in a relationship for you.

Andrew: Deal breaker in your, we’ll say,

Josh: we’ll say non romantic relationships, because you shouldn’t have a two breaker in your marriage.


Andrew: I would say over time, like, just as thinking about friendships over time, if I’m the only one ever reaching out to like, try to hang out or talk or be friends, if I’m the, if it’s totally one sided, that’s an eventual deal breaker of just like, Oh, this person doesn’t actually want to. Be a friend or doesn’t want to actually, you know, they’re like a Fairweather friend of like, Oh, if it works out, we’ll hang out.

But I don’t actually care about that. That’s a deal breaker. Is

Josh: this your way? Is this your way of telling me something? Do I not reach out?

Andrew: Hey, do you want to go find your stairs?


Josh: was thinking

I’d love to I’m down. Let’s do it. Let’s see. Who’s faster. Yeah,

Andrew: I got it. I’m pretty quick, you know, um, on the short term, got a pretty good sprint

Josh: really quick. Are you definitely on the short term? Yeah. Well, I’ve raised a lot of people where they’re like, I’m going to kill you. And you’re like, yeah, Nope.

That’s not going to happen, dude. How have we never heard them?

Andrew: You know, we’ve done a lot of like sports and things, but now that I think about it, they’re usually more like big group sports. It’s never just like. A running race or something like that.

Josh: Um, let me ask you this question then. Andrew, how often have you had a running races with your friends?

Is that a normal occurrence

Andrew: dude? Like I’m in a running league

Josh: where we just show? No, I don’t think I’ve ever had a running race with friends. I think I’m fast. Let’s run

Andrew: faster. Let’s go about down. No, but I guess if we were like playing soccer together, football or something like that, then I might have some sense on that, but I don’t know, dude, maybe it’s 50 50 at this point.

We can poke some bears to see what

Josh: I think that’s the best way to find out. Yeah. Because I don’t think there’s better motivation. Like, dude,

Andrew: you want to really know who’s faster. Okay. Maybe we should reformat the Olympics, like the AstroTurf flat track cleats on no, like the way to really figure out who faster

Josh: is

Andrew: dangerous wildlife, uh, unsteady conditions.

Um, last-minute split decisions where everyone has to start at the same time and, uh, you know, It’s literally survival fittest. Let’s get your same bolt out there and see what happens,

Josh: you know? Yeah. I feel like, I feel like if the Olympics are really struggling in certain events to get some ratings, then that’s a great way to introduce a panel

Andrew: and pics of it.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s good. Yeah. Imagine swimming. And like you just throw a bear in the pool,

Andrew: just a straight up polar bear

Josh: in the pool.

Andrew: Cause they’re good. Swimmers, man. They can go miles.

Josh: Yeah. So good. Yeah. That’s funny, Josh. Yeah. What

Andrew: would you hope? This is a serious question. What would you hope would be said at your eulogy?

I guess just what are some of the things you would hope would be set in your eulogy?

Josh: Fella should never have poked


Andrew: bear.

Josh: Yeah. Right. I am dying from a bear. I’m not running that everybody, uh, set of my eulogy. This is the most attractive man in the world has ever lost.

Andrew: Um, all right. P

Josh: yeah, man, I don’t know. I don’t really care in all honesty. Let’s set in my eulogy. Interesting. Like I’m gone at that point.

Like I have no vested interest on what you think about me. Um, What for the , what if, what if, and that’s like my video to those there,

Andrew: I was just going to say theologically accurate at all, but what if you die? And then your soul just like sticks around and hangs out until your eulogy has been done. And then you go, yeah.

Josh: Uh, for some that may be torture. Of like, this is how unimpactful you actually were in this life. Yeah. Um, yeah, I would hope like I’ve accomplished something in my life. Like, I would hope that. It’s not just like, Oh, Josh was such a good friend and, you know, he loved those. He was like all good things. Sure.

But like, I I’d hope there’s some kind of legacy in terms of accomplishments of like, yeah, Josh brought this into existence or Josh played a role in this. That’s what I’d want in my eulogy. Yeah, that’s fair. That’s fair. Yup. These are these. These are pretty deep. Uh, these questions are from a company called what are they called?

I don’t know what the name is. Place scores. Yes. Best self icebreakers box. You can find them on Amazon. I would assume we’ll link to them in our show so you can quickly find them. Uh, but here’s the question. This may be deep. This may not be deep. It really depends on how his relationship is.

Um, but I think it’d be okay to ask this question. Describe your relationship with your father in one sentence.

Andrew: Hmm. Okay. This is on the spot. That’s a tough question. Describe my relationship with my father in one sentence. We are similar in

Josh: so many ways. That’s,

Andrew: that’s the truth, man. I, the older I get, the more, I think about all the things about my dad, where when I was growing up, I was like, Oh, that’s weird.

Why is he like that? Whatever. And now I’m just like, I get it.

Josh: So

Andrew: like, my dad had so many ways, um, I don’t know. I don’t know.

Josh: Yeah,

Andrew: he’s a good man. I love my dad and we have a good relationship. We both love deer hunting and here’s, here’s just

Josh: super jealous right now. Well,

Andrew: no, he has this killer spot. He can’t walk there.

It’s like two miles from his house, but he’s a killer spot where he’s like gets a big buck every year. It’s awesome. And it’s also in somebody’s backyard. It’s great.

Josh: But a miles from his house, that’s pretty impressive.

Andrew: Yeah, but, uh, dude, he, so I was traveling for work a few weeks back and like my parents knew I was traveling.

So I figured like, you know, uh, my dad texted me out of the blue and was like, Can you talk soon,

Josh: call me.

Andrew: And it was like, yes. So I called him thinking, okay, he’s in the hospital. Or he just found out something bad or like, yeah, thinking this is serious. He picks up the phone and I’m basically just like, Hey dad, like cut the small talk.

I’m traveling. What’s going on? Like this it’s serious, you know? And he’s like, Well, it’s just mainly calling to see how the deer hunting’s going.

Josh: I’m like, dad, what are you, dude?

Andrew: I’ll call you back in two days. You’re killing me. So, yeah, but I could see myself doing that down the road, uh, to my kids. So

Josh: yeah, that’s fair.

Yeah. That’s a hard, you gotta be careful what you text to people like you create a little fear so quickly. Yeah. My dad. Worked, um, just down the street from the, the County building where the San Bernardino shooting was years ago. Uh, and not only that he was in that parking lot. Um, I knew not long before that, because they were looking for new office space for their firm.

Uh, and like I was calling it like. Over and over and over again, trying to get ahold of him that day. When I heard the news, couldn’t get a hold of him and then eventually did. And like, dude, do you not know? I need you to answer your phone. This happened,

Andrew: you were just right next to the news where people die.

Josh: You got confirm. You’re okay. I can see your building on the newscast dude, jobs free freezing that close, but that’s

Andrew: free. Wow.

Josh: Well, the crazy thing is that my. So they, they, they own a law firm. They represent children, uh, in, I don’t even know abuse cases, those types of things. Anytime a child would need custody cases, I would assume as well.

Um, and, uh, my step-mom was going to represent the baby of. The two terrorists, uh, like she was assigned that case. And then I don’t know what happened to the case. She tried to get the case out of the County. Um, just for the sake of,  say no all the best in the sake of the child. Um, But I think the child end up going to like an aunt or something like that from the record that is intense

Andrew: kind of crazy.

Yeah. Dude,

Josh: that just got all serious. That

Andrew: went, things went serious quickly. Um, so dude, on this Tuesday, uh, and if you’re listening, the reason we’re asking random questions like that is because this whole season is all about relationships, relationships with. God, and with one another, um, really through the lens of how do you love?

Well, um, because love really is the key to any long-term relationship, whether friendship you’re, the way you follow God, um, your marriage, all of it love is, is a real key. So we’ve been analyzing and kind of working through slowly, first Corinthians 13, um, one through eight, um, Things like love is patient kind.

Doesn’t envy. Doesn’t boast. It’s not proud. It does not dishonor one another. It is not self-seeking it’s not easily angered. And today it keeps no records of wrongs. Um, so when we said there’s no law naughty list here. That’s really what we mean. It keeps no records of wrong. Um, love doesn’t. So, anyway, man, what are some of your kind of like first thoughts around this of, of love?

An attribute of love is that it doesn’t keep records of wrong. What do you think about that?

Josh: Um, I think out of all of the characteristics of love that are listed in these verses, I think this is probably the hardest one for people to swallow is true. Hmm. Um, because. For a lot of different reasons. I think one of the biggest reasons is relationships are just hard.

Like people are going to hurt you. Like that’s just, that comes with the territory. People you deeply love are going to hurt you. That just comes with the territory and you have to be okay with that. And I think most of society, rather than dealing with those things head on, would rather push those things away, um, and end up probably being extremely lonely.

Cause they’ll eventually push all relationships away except the really shallow ones, because it’s the only ones that don’t cause harm. Um, so I think that’s probably the hardest to. To wrap your head around and we all have great pains, right? Like we can, we can all share stories of, of relationship pains that have caused us a lot of, of harm, a lot of pain, a lot of heartache, um, and a lot of processing probably if, if you’ve taken the healthy approach to it.

Um, yeah. And for. For it to say, there’s no records of wrong. I know the pushback to that statement. Um, it’s like, you don’t know what he did to me, or you don’t know what she did to me. Um, like how can you say that this is the position we should take as Christians when they harm me in such a horrific way.

Now I don’t have any horrific harming stories. Like, yeah, I wasn’t abused. I wasn’t like any of those kinds of things. I don’t want to lie.

No, they have lots of bear poking to today. And then I am seven for Oh, bookings. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup.

Andrew: Some bad stories. They’ve worked through some hurt.

Josh: Well, they didn’t work through anything there. They’re no longer with us. That’s really how that is. It’s a bear. All right, let’s keep it going. Allegedly.

Andrew: Allegedly,

Josh: I don’t. Yeah, I don’t poke bear Cubs. I want big old grizzly bears.

Andrew: I go for gold.

Josh: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s fair. I don’t think I have any, I don’t know. I don’t think I have any supermassive hurt stuff in my life. Like I wasn’t abused as a child. I like, I’ve been, God’s given me grace in a lot of things.

Like there’s a lot of things that could have gone in my right wrong in my life that did not, you know? Um, so I’m thankful for that, but there’s, there’s plenty of small. Hertz. There’s plenty of small things where it be easy to keep a record of wrongs and it, um, almost might feel easier to just be like, well, they hurt me.

So, um, I can I get a pass to hurt somebody else or to act a different way or to

Josh: do whatever. But,

Andrew: uh, but I don’t think. That’s, that’s not demonstrated for us, you know, it’s not, Hey, you were hurt so you can go hurt somebody else. It’s like, no, it’s not, it’s not even like that. It’s more like you’re hurt, but you’ve hurt God with your sin.

So you got to forgive the way that God forgives you, which just, if, if we’re being honest, um, something mind-boggling to think about is that if you believe that Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross, And that he forgave all your sins, um, past present future, and that God created time and lives outside of it, but also chooses to interact inside of it.

Then essentially all of your sins that you’re ever going to do, it’s already been forgiven and they’ve already been taken care of by the cross now there’s I think we should still confess our sins to the Lord. Um, I think we should still work through them, but just knowing that basically. Any sin you’re going to do has already been covered by the blood of Jesus.

Um, now there’s trickiness to that, but basically I’m trying to say, knowing that, that what you’ve done is already forgiven and forgotten, um, in this way, by the Lord, that’s, it’s been covered over by the blood of Jesus. Um, and that, you know, when God looks at you, he sees his son kinda in your place. Um, Anyway, it’s it’s mind boggling, man, because I find myself when I sin, um, I find myself either wanting to cover it up or not necessarily wanting to be really quick to go to God and be like, here’s what I did.

I got to confess this and repent of it, you know? Um, My first thought is like, Oh, just that, that was a loophole like you and I were joking about earlier. Oh, there was a loophole there, like I’m okay. And then eventually crap I did really send, yeah, I got, I got to apologize for the cat that I got to ask forgiveness for that I got to repent from this.

Like there’s a process that comes in once you kind of admit to yourself and then to God that it was sin. So I don’t know all that to say. Keeping no record of wrongs is, uh, is a mind blowing idea

Josh: when

Andrew: I don’t even know how to keep no record of wrongs. I know how to forgive people. Um, when something’s been done to me, I don’t know how to just keep no record of it.

I don’t know how to like, fully erase it from my mind or from, uh, my actions, I guess. So it’s a little rambling, but those are my first thoughts on it.

Josh: Yeah. I think like if you, if you go yeah. Back and you think through like, um, relationships that ended poorly, um, relationships that, that caused you harm, um, I think there’s a tendency in people to hold onto those things rather than to forgive for those things.

And I think that’s the action that wipes out the records, right. Um, is, is forgiveness and, um, Forget. And I think this is the biggest thing that you’ve got to understand about this piece of love is, um, like forgiveness is probably more important for you than it is for that other individual that you’re forgiving.

That’s good. Like for you to hold on to unforgiveness for you to hold onto those wrongs, um, like that’s going to cause you more detriment and damage. Um, then too. To offer the forgiveness to that individual for your own sake, even if you did it from a selfish perspective, I was like, I’m not just trying to figure I don’t, I don’t care what happens to you, but I’m going to forgive you for my sake and process that because I can’t hold onto the bitterness that this is going to cause inside of me and you know, these people, right?

Like, you know, those super bitter people and you’re like, Oh, I bet you there’s some forgiveness issues in there. And that’s kind of why they function the way that they function. Like they’re hard. People that are entrenched in. Things are hard people to love because they’re just so on guard and they hold onto so much hurt and pain and they don’t process or deal with any of those things.

Like, so it’s more for your own benefit of like, Let go of these things and forgive in these areas. And oftentimes you got to wake up the next morning and forgive again when you’re in the midst of those seasons. But as time goes by as some more perspective, you know, uh, is gained like you start to let go of those things that don’t seem to be as such a big deal than when you’re in the midst of those things.

Yeah. And just kind of one of those, those worlds that we live in, like, it’s not easy, I’m not saying, Hey, this is, but, but for your own sanity, for your own sake, for your own growth, for your own ability to overcome, um, like you’ve got to, you’ve got to learn how to forgive and let go of these things and work the process of forgiveness, um, and work in the process of forgiveness is like, you’ve got to feel it.

Hmm, right? Like, this is how this person is harmed me. This is the emotions that it’s created inside of me. I got to feel those emotions. Like I’ve got to dig into it to really understand what I’m forgiving or I’m not, I’m just surface level. Hey, I forgive you. Let’s move on. Um, like nothing’s dealt with, like, you’ve got to dig into that stuff.

Um, and if you’re in it, You know, if you’re in a relationship with those individuals and it’s a relationship that needs to be kept, it’s important to be kept. And then you’ve got to dig into those things with that individual of just say, Hey, this is how I feel. You’ve harmed me. And this is what has, I just want you to know, I forgive you for these things, but I do need them to be out in the open because I can’t be the only one to carry them.

That’s not helpful for the future relationship that we’re going to have. Um, like you got to bring that stuff out.

Andrew: Man. That’s a good point. It is hard to walk her. It just takes so much effort to walk around carrying things that you have actively not forgiven. Um,

Josh: yeah.

Andrew: And, and I don’t think, you know, love keeping no record wrongs.

Like. There’s the, there’s the way God forgives, where I was trying to describe it, like Jesus, his blood and his sacrifice, cover that for it. For us, he essentially took the place of us needing to slaughter animals and do offerings and those types of things. He, he took that spot and took on our sin in a way that is hard to fathom basically.

And that is hard to fathom, but, um, I think when it says, God keeps no record of wrongs. Like, I don’t know if he truly forgets it. You said something to me as we were getting ready to start about kind of the Greek meaning of keeping no record of wrongs. Um, that may be, could you, could you unpack what it was saying in the Greek?

If you’re remember, you’re going

Josh: to try to put it now. You’re going to try to put things in my head and make me sound smarter than I really am. Um, When you

Andrew: set it, I didn’t say you made it up or that you spent time in Greece research and get it, uh, and came to the

Josh: cruiser. It’s the only place you could read the Greek Bible.

I don’t read Greek. Uh, I just have logos Bible software.

Andrew: I

Josh: do sign

Andrew: language. Uh, but I don’t read it.

Josh: Oh, interesting. Interesting. I thought Paul’s sign language is the same, but okay. I didn’t know. There’s different dialects. That’s super interesting. Um, no that, no, there is just absolute negative. Um, like there’s no record.

Um, like it’s not, um, um, it’s not wishy-washy, it’s not, um, no, in the sense of like, this is the goal, like it’s it’s no, and then the absolute negative sense of the primary word. Um, so there’s that piece of it, of just like the records we should be keeping it shouldn’t be these records. Uh, maybe your, your health records, dental records, kid shot records, all good records to keep sure how those individuals wronged you really bad rink.

Absolute negative. Yeah, absolutely negative on this one. Not helpful, but. And like, if we play it out, everyone agrees. You’re like, yeah, of course. If I held on all these things, it’s going to destroy that relationship. That’s not the issue. The issue then becomes, uh, yeah, that relationship is not worth keeping.

So I’m okay with holding onto these things because I’m just going to destroy that relationship. Yeah. That’s okay. Um, but you know, I think relationships matter a lot more to Jesus than, than we probably give them credit for. And it’s relationships worth keeping and relationships worth working through and dealing with and not just throwing them away.

I think, I think in today’s society and this is just off the top of my head, I think in today’s society, um, relationships are a lot more. Um, temporary than God designed relationships to be, or a lot less valuable than God designed relationships to be. Um, we’ve said this before, like, you know, I quote this verse all the time, but Jesus said, you know, I have come to give you life and give it to the full.

Or the abundant life in John 10, 10. Um, like I believe that life is found in relationship relationship with God and relationship with one another. That’s where you find the full life. That’s where the secret sauce unlock the keys. That’s where you find it. This is inside relationship. As you foster your relationship with God, as you foster a relationship with those around you, and the more people you foster a relation with those around you, the deeper life is going to be fulfilled.

The deeper life is going to be and more fulfilling it. It’s going to be. And I think that’s a big piece of what we’re chasing. Yeah. Um, that I think is easily forgotten, but like, cause the other side of it is, is, well, God is a God of justice. Isn’t he? Like, isn’t he going to be Jew? He’s only going to be bringing justice to those that have wronged me.

Uh, yes, but probably not in the timeline that you’re expecting. Um, and if they’re a believer. They’re forgiven for it. Uh, I know that’s hard to hear, um, cause you want, you want the pain that you felt for them to feel like I get that. Um, but in all reality, it, it, it doesn’t help her fix anything. Vengeance has never, never the answer.

It doesn’t work. Um, and at least from a human perspective, it doesn’t work.

Andrew: I think the Bible also pointed out some really like, There’s some really pragmatic reasons like you and I are trying to define why we should not hold onto this, how it’s like heavier for us to, to be the one who hasn’t forgiven somebody of some wrongs.

Yeah. Um, But like Matthew seven one and two says, do not judge that you will not be judged for the way you judge, you will be judged. And by the standard of measure you use, it will be measured to you. Then it goes on to say, why do you look at it? The speck of dust in somebody else’s eye when you have a plank in your own eye, um, after that, but like, that’s kind of part of the reality of like you and I, we’re not created to be.

Spiritual judges of other people. That’s not our role. You know? So the second that we take that role on and start saying, well, their sin is worse than my sin. They’re they’re going to live in, they’re going to go to hell for sure. They’re done. They’re out. I’m definitely good. You know, I’m way better than them, whatever.

However, you start judging and whatever sin you start focusing on in their life that that’s going to be. Part of the measure by which you’re judged. And that’s some like pretty, that’s pretty harsh to think about, man.

Josh: Are they pretty

Andrew: sobering to think about, I guess? Um, I think

Josh: there’s a difference. I think

Andrew: it will just let me say, I don’t think there’s, I don’t think calling sin is calling sin.

Sin is not a bad thing. I think we should understand what sin is and what sin is not. But I think the judgment side is maybe like saying they’re unforgivable. They did this thing that is so bad. They’re gonna burn in hell for sure. That I don’t know. I think there’s difference between judging people for the sin they commit and just calling out what is, and is not sin.

So anyway, what were you gonna say?

Josh: Yeah. Uh, I think those verses, I don’t think they’re. Judgment versus in the sense of final judgment versus I think he’s speaking to right now in this life, this is how we function. Um, so to kind of go along with what you’re saying, like it’s not an issue of, cause it’s the following verses that really start to shift that whole statement, like deal with the speck in your own eye before you get a deer suspect

Andrew: or the hole

Josh: or the log out of your own eye before you deal with a speck in someone else’s.

Yeah. That’s perspective issue. That’s a do get over yourself. Like you’re not as important and it’s not even an issue of calling sin out. It’s an issue of you don’t get to make the judgment call about somebody else. Yeah. Um, and. And I think the other pieces of this, of like, I can look at your life and say, Oh, look at all this sin.

Um, well, I don’t deal with that sin so I can call that sin out. It’s not what it says either. Like, yeah, it doesn’t say there’s not a sin categories in that statement. It’s just sin. Like I have logs in my own eyes that I’m not dealing with. Um, why do I feel like I have the right to come after somebody else?

Um, and I get the whole. You know, only God can judge me mindset and that back to all those things, I, I think you probably win the argument than the other side. Um, if we really pushed down into it, I think that is God’s heart. Um, that we’re not sitting around judging one another. And I think we we’ve even talked.

I know we’ve talked about this on the podcast. Like when we’re calling sin out in our brothers and sisters of us surround us, I’m not doing it for the sake of calling since sin, that doesn’t, who gives a shit, I’m doing it for your own sake. Like if I see something going on in your life and you’re like, I want to call those things out, not to bring judgment on you.

But out of great love for you, because I know what sin does. Sin destroys. That’s all it’s designed to do. It wants to kill you and destroy you and steal hope from you. Um, so I do it out of great love for you that this is you’re going down a path that I think is going to be detrimental and harmful. It’s all out of love.

I’m not calling out sin because it’s sin. Yeah. No, like that’s not theirs. We’re not going to find anything that lives in that world. Like that’s just not the goal. The goal is relationship. The goal is to love one another around us. Um, I can call out sin from a distance all day long, but like, what’s that going to do?

Yeah. Like it’s not going to help anyone. It’s not going to help the individual because one from a distance, they don’t give a shit. Like throw your mud, like you’re, you’re at a distance. Right. And the other side of it is like, yeah, I’m not doing it. I love either. Cause I don’t like, I don’t know you well enough to be close enough to you to have real conversations about things I’m like yes.

Dealing with sin as important because sin as destructive, it’s not just destructive to your life. It’s destructive to the lives that you are around it and influence over and have a connection with like, it’s going to be destructive to them as well. So yeah, we want to deal with sin. We want to call sin out.

Hopefully, it comes from a perspective of I’m confessing my sin to one another and it’s not, I’m getting sin called out inside of me. Hopefully I’m self-aware enough and man enough or woman enough, uh, to, to do like do do what’s right. And, and ask for forgiveness when I’ve sinned against somebody. Uh, and it’s not getting called out and we’re just sweeping it under the rug kind of thing.

Like that’s not the issue. Yeah. But if it’s not done in love, I think you’re 100% in the wrong move on. It’s not like, not your issue. So yeah. Going back to the conversation at hand of keeping records of wrong. And those were, I think there’s a level of justice that we demand from God. And we think God is for that.

That I think we hold on to this, this past hurt this past being sinned against this past whatever, um, longer than we should be holding onto it. Um, and I think it’s keeping us from experiencing everything God has for us in this life. Um, and I don’t know about you, but like that’s what, that’s what I want.

Yeah. Like, I want to experience the full life. I want to experience what Jesus has for. I want all in everything about it. I like give it all. And then if there’s anything that’s going to keep me from it, like, yeah, I want to deal with those things. Cause I don’t want to be, I don’t want to lose anything that God had intended for me at one point.

Like that would suck. I would hate to get to heaven and be like, man, and God just picked man, Josh, like here’s this situation, this situation, this situation. And yeah. And you chose to go the other way. You chose it to hold onto it. You chose to whatever you chose to hold the record of wrong against that individual.

And you missed out on this, this and this. And you’re like, what? Like, are you serious? This is what held me back. Um, and I think the other part of it too is when you live. In this place of holding records of wrong, you foster a culture around you. That’s going to do the same. Totally. So depending on how much influence you have, maybe it’s with your kids, it’s with your family, um, it’s with maybe your, your, a boss it’s with your employees.

You’re a team leader, whatever. Like you’re going to foster a culture where, where victim hood is the norm.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t like to be around people that are victims. Like at least the victim, I should say it that way. The victim mentality, people are going to be victims.

Andrew: I believe the air who constantly think to themselves, I’m really a victim today.

This really horrible thing happened to me. That defined. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s just

Josh: draining, draining personality types. Yeah. But you’re going to create that culture around you. Like if you have. Unforgiven sin. You haven’t dealt with these things. You haven’t dug into these things. You’re still holding onto these things and they come up in conversation, right?

Like you say things about that individual. Um, and maybe it’s not directly, but indirectly you’re, you’re bringing these things up. Um, like, sorry, like if you’re thinking about the person a lot, I would assume you’re still holding on to issues with that individual. Like, there’s been plenty of people in my life that have harmed me that have done me wrong.

And I don’t spend any time thinking about them. Like, let’s just, it’s not worth it. Like, why would I want to go down those roads to hold myself back from achieving what God has for me?

Andrew: And maybe part of that is you learned the lesson at some point. Maybe you just have always get good at this, but maybe you learned a lesson at some point of like, I let that person occupy space in my mind and my heart and my thoughts for a year.

And it was brutal. So I can’t do that anymore. You know, I don’t know how you learned that, but it’s a good thing you did because I know you well, and I can attest to some of the hurt that’s happened in your life. And the fact that you don’t walk around thinking about that and dwelling on that and feeling like a victim, but that you’re like, no, God, I’ve, I’ve forgiven them in my heart.

Hope God forgives them, but I’m out, you know, it’s done. It’s done. So I don’t know how

Josh: you like to say. Yeah, not my problem. Well, I think the only way you can is just going through it yourself and like yep. And there’s probably been plenty of times throughout my life. I shouldn’t say probably I know there’s been plenty of times throughout my life that I’ve held onto those things and I haven’t dealt with them and, and, you know, it went on for years and years and years, and it would manifest itself in ways that you didn’t even realize that you haven’t dealt with it.

Um, But I think choosing the right way to deal with it of just choosing to forgive, even though you could S you could say, like, what happened was horrific. It’s not okay. Um, God should bring justice to it, but it goes back to, is it my place to, to foster that? Is it my place to demand that God brings justice to those places, right?

Nope. And I think this goes back to the Matthew seven versus the red, like, no, like sure. I can point at all the specs in someone else’s eye. But that’s not my job. Right? Like my job is to worry about Josh, not your

Andrew: eye and like in a literal sense, they’re not the eyes you were given,

Josh: you know? Yeah. Not my eyes, not my problem.

And I think we create, we make other people’s problems, our problems. And they’re just not like if it’s a toxic relationship, get out of the relationship. Like when we start to talk about love, we’re not saying. Love deeply and toxic relationships, right? Like, like you’ve got to have boundaries in relationships or you’re just going to get sucked in and never find freedom.

Um, like you’ve, you’ve got to put those boundaries in place, but in most relationships love is, is the key. And even in toxic relationships, love still the key what’s best for both of us, um, moving forward. So we can both experience the goodness of God. And what he has for us in this life is to sever the relationship.

Yeah. It’s just good. If your ways that’s okay. It’s not bad. We see examples of that throughout the new Testament, right? Yeah. Like we see Barnabas and Barnabas and Paul,

Andrew: Paul,

Josh: I don’t know why I just couldn’t think of, but there’s been plenty of arguments over relationships and then splitting of waste.

Yeah. That’s okay. Splitting relationships is fine. Um, but it’s out of love that you should be splitting those relationships of, Hey, you’re not going to be the best you. Yeah. I’m not going to be the best me. If we keep trying to make something work, that’s just not working. Yeah. So let’s, let’s just split wise.

Let’s go two different ways. Yeah. Are you good with that? I’m good with that. Awesome. Let’s do it. It’s better that way. Um, and

Andrew: before you keep going on that, cause that’s a, that’s a good, that’s really a good thought.

Josh: The conversation itself too.

Andrew: It might be, I don’t know. We’ll figure it out or, or we won’t, but I was just thinking back to just these.

The verses of love, keeps no record of wrongs. And I was thinking about like, you and I have built a lot of trust over years of being friends and years of doing accountability together, praying for each other, really knowing what’s going on in each other’s life, um, or what isn’t going on. And, uh, and I think about that.

And if, if, like, if I was sitting across the table from you with an actual motive of. I just want to get dirt on Josh. I just want to understand what all the bad things are. I just want to, I’m trying to get out. If I want to write a list of here’s all the things that Josh did wrong or that messed up or hurt me with overtime or whatever, if that’s my motive.

Josh: I like how you talk about enough facetious way. Like it doesn’t exist. I know you have a list. I’ve seen it keeping their Joslin.

Andrew: It’s just a few notes. Okay.

Josh: You just brought it up. I knew there was

Andrew: no, I’m kidding. Um, but like just the motive of that, of like, I’m going to keep this down. I’m going to, um, you don’t have to literally write it down to keep a record, but I’m gonna, you know, remember this thing I’m in it to basically get dirt on somebody versus the.

I’m in this because I love Jesus and I know that I need some help to love Jesus. Well, and to live out the things he wants me to live out. Um, and I trust this person and they’re going to call me out when I’m, when I’m out of line and they’re going to encourage me when I’m living well, you know, um, like that’s, it’s just two such different worlds to say I’m going to love people well enough that I.

Call them out inside of relationship and in a way that pushes them closer to God versus I’m going to keep this list that I’ve told up at the exact word worst moment for them to really seal the deal or to make sure everybody can judge them too. You know,

Josh: it’s like,

Andrew: I don’t know, to me, that’s like the difference that’s.

That’s almost like the way Jesus lives and was portrayed in the Bible and the way that like Satan is portrayed in the Bible of like, no, no. Yeah, just dude, Jesus, just take the jump off the temple. I know we’re still like 200 feet up in the air, but the angels are going to catch you, man. And if you do that, I’m going to give you this whole world.

You can have everything you want and it’s like this. Yeah. The slight of hand of like, no, no, just you just break that one little thing and you take the jump, I’ll record it. Everybody will know about it. I’ll report back to God on it and I’ll make sure that you can’t do the thing that you’re supposed to do.

That’s most important, you know, that’s like Satan in that. Um, and G’s just like, no smell I’m here for, but it’s like, I don’t know. It’s just this it’s. Nasty to want to be like, I’m here to build lists of people’s worst things. I’m here to not forget wrongs. I’m here to hurt people. I’m here to bring it up at the moment.

You don’t want me to bring it up and it’s to hurt you, you know, versus I’m here to encourage other people and push them towards Jesus.

Josh: Yeah, that’s good. I think, I think this is a good. Sign that something’s wrong. Something’s going on that if you can look at an individual and think to yourself, I’m better than that individual.

Yeah. Yeah. So like I’m less sinful than that individual. God loves me more than that individual. God wants to bring judgment upon that individual, but not upon me. Right? Like if, if that’s your posture, then you’re 100% in the wrong and you’re probably holding on to some wrongs and you’re making some lists that you shouldn’t be.

Yeah. I think it’s a good side of it. That is good. That you’re constantly looking around you that you’re like, I’m better. Like, because in all reality, It’s just not true. Like we all got our sin. We’re all assholes at times. We’re all dicks at times, we all do things that cause harm to one another at times.

Sure. I might not have did it in this one situation, but I probably did it in four other situations. Like that’s just the reality of it. Like it’s in order to think that I’m more spiritual or closer to God, then that individual is like, You’re 100% in the wrong in something’s going on. And you need to have some conversations with Jesus about it, to dig into it, or have some conversations with those that love Jesus and love you in the order.

If you’re struggling to hear Jesus saying those things to you. Um, not that he’s not saying those things to you, but you probably would just have other crap and you’re not listening. So now you need a physical voice to say something. Um, so I think that’s probably a good, a good tracker. Like if you’re looking at safe, I’d never do that.

You probably would like you look in sale. What kind of asshole would she on his wife? Well, if the circumstances were right and I didn’t have the guards up. I could probably be that asshole. Right. Um, like,

Andrew: yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Like, I don’t want to say, I don’t want to think that my guards are better than his, the reality is if the circumstances were right.

I could be exactly where you are right now. I get it. Right. And you can do that. Almost anything like murder. Sure. If the circumstances were right. Yeah. I probably could commit murder, but that’s just the reality of it. Yeah. Probably not premeditated. I would hope it wasn’t premeditated. Um, but let’s run poking

Andrew: American count.

When you know that one person, I don’t think I,

Josh: I didn’t kill him. I just spoke to bear. Like not my that’s no blood on you did wear your running shoes. You should always wear your running shoes, going into a forest with bakers. That’s just good bikes. Uh, so I think that’s a good, I think that’s a good barometer.

If that’s the right word, I think it is, um, to, to use of like, in this situation, I’m looking at this person, do I think I’m better than that person? And if the answer is yes or you ask your friend, cause you can’t answer that question, your wife or your significant other, and you’re just like, Hey, so this what’s going on, you know, what’s going on.

Do you think I’m better than that person? Do you think? I think I’m better than that person. And they’re like, Oh yes. Then you’re like, Oh shit. Should be the response. You’re in the situation back in Matthew seven of like, I’m looking at the, the specks in their eyes. When I got logs, I got to deal with yeah.

Dealing with those things, how much better word our world be? If that’s our posture that we took. And then we did the work that we needed to do with Jesus to bring out that the ugliness of that, the sin of those things and let them deal with those things and shape us and mold us. Yeah. I’m like, that’s just the reality of it.

Like we could all be in the same boat. Like sure. We’re saints. 100%. We are Jesus’s. If you’ve given your life to Jesus, you recognize that he is the son of God, that he did die for your sins, that he did conquer death. You’re his, you in those moments, you’re forgiven, you’re taken care of. Um, I don’t know where I was going with that.

Cause I went into the gospel, um, nothing wrong with

Andrew: that. I was going to say, well, let me add a thought on the flip side. There’s that if you walk around, if you walk around and you catch yourself thinking I’m better than this person, I’m less sinful than this person or whatever,

Josh: I would never do that.

Andrew: Yeah. I could never do that. Those are all good things to think about or to check yourself on. This week, or this month or year, whenever you’re listening to this, hope it reminds you of it. Another one is maybe I’m kind of making this up, but like, if you’ve just prayed for someone’s sin a thousand times and never said anything to them about it, that might be another one of where you actually think.

Maybe you’re just better than them or, or maybe you think, Oh, this is so important that I got to pray for them about it, but I’ll never say anything to them about it, but I know. Yeah. Bless their heart. It’s that, that culture of that, that’s not good either. So that’s, that might be a couple kind of ways to think.

Are you constantly praying for somebody’s sin and you never said anything to them? Um, or. Do you just believe you’re better than other people? Um, both of those might point back to you. Haven’t actually forgiven some things in your life and you’re holding onto that. The weight of what it means to actually keep a record of wrong.


Josh: that’s, that’s a good, heavy record to carry.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: Nobody. Cause it is a heavy record to carry. Like let’s be honest. You really want to write down all the times you use just your spouses, an example, but how heavy would that record be of how often they’ve hurt you?

Andrew: Yeah,

Josh: like. That’s going to be a heavy record.

Why carry that around and let that damage your relationship and what God wants for that. Like not worth it, like, and you’re creating a culture around you. That’s just causing more and more damage. Like if that’s what you’re bringing to the table, like you’re just going to cause more damage. Like someone’s got to change it.

So you’d be the person that changes it. Even if other people are still in that world, you be the person that changes it. And I think that’s more attractive that, that lifestyle of keeping no records of wrong than those that do keep records. Um, and I think you’re going to start winning people over to that way of living of like, no, I’m going to choose to love people.

Well, Yeah, like you just want me to do,

Andrew: nobody wants to be friends with the person who constantly thinks about all the ways everybody else is wrong then and waits to bring it up at the moment that hurts those people. Most, no, everybody wants

Josh: to be

Andrew: friends with the person who gives them grace and tries to direct them and help them be better.

People to look more like Jesus, um, to live this Jesus life, as we might say, like, People want to be friends with that person, not the one who’s constantly judging in the background. Nobody wants that. That’s my daughter’s favorite catchphrase is nobody wants that. Um, she’s two years old and it’s awesome.

And nobody wants that. Nobody wants to carry the weight of that record. Uh, once they’ve done it for a while, they’ll realize they don’t want to. And, uh, yeah. Yeah. It’s just not worth it. So. I dunno. I hope this has been helpful. I feel like we got somewhere on that idea, but

Josh: you have some go ahead. Yeah. I think taking it one step further is like, how do you, well, how do you actually forget?

Like how do you actually let those things? And we briefly touched on it, but, um, I think you’ve got to feel it. Hmm. Um, like you’ve got to let the emotion and I know I get it. I’m a dude. I’m right there with you. Emotions, not my thing. Um, much easier just to shove them under the rug and move on. Um, but shoving things under the rug and moving on don’t deal.

It doesn’t deal with anything eventually just going to explode out of you. Right. That’s even uglier, right? It’s like a big old zit. That’s just everywhere right on the mirror. And there’s like this mirror now.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: Bad day for everybody. Um, so like, You’ve got to deal with it. Um, if you don’t trust yourself going down those roads, because the pain is so great that the, whatever it is, um, then bring somebody else into the conversation.

Yeah. Um, let someone else walk with you in it. Like I think this is what it means to carry one another’s burdens. Um, let them feel it, like you feel it that’s okay. Um, the benefit that they have is they’re going to feel it in the moment. And walk away, um, cause it’s not theirs to carry longterm. Um, but in the moment they can help you carry it.

Um, and if you’re at a place where that’s not working, then seek real help. Um, find people that do this for a living and the professionals at it, um, that can help you deal with these things. And if that individual is not leading your towards forgiveness, if that individual’s not leading you towards, um, the Jesus life, uh, that’s the wrong individual and find a new individual, uh, but find a counselor, find someone that loves Jesus and loves you.

Um, it can help you walk through those things because finding, finding freedom from those things, erasing that list, man, there’s not a better feeling in the world to walk around, not holding things against anybody. Like that’s a good, you should be able to say, yes, I have no enemies. Like that’s just me the norm of your life.

Like, let’s be honest. Why would you have an enemy in any of it? But if there’s, if there’s wrongs going on, deal with them and move on, uh, you know, take your ownership of your part. Ask for forgiveness, move on and ask real forgiveness. I don’t know if we were talking about this, but like, I don’t know. Did I share this on the podcast?

I did apologize to a coworker last week.

Andrew: No, you told me before it happened that you were going to

Josh: yeah. Um, yeah, I learned, I heard, I heard a coworker, um, a few months back and, and I wanted to make that right. Um, the. The temptation in those moments of trying to make it right is, uh, I don’t remember doing this.

This is not my fault. It was not my intention or my intent to do this. Um, I’m sorry that you didn’t took it that way. Right? All wrong ways to apologize. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Um, the apology is, Hey, I’m sorry. I did this. I’m sorry. I harmed you. I’m sorry that I caused, like, can you forgive me? Um, And that was my apologies.

My apologies. You did start with, Hey. I just found out that the PSU thing, this is why it took me so long to apologize avoiding it,

Andrew: but I found out

Josh: I’m also sorry for what I did. Yeah. And then this is what I did. Or even if it’s the, this is what you perceive that I did. Like, I’m not going to say it that way, but that’s how they perceived it and it’s caused harm.

And for the sacred relationship, I want to make a better, so I’m just going to say, Hey, I did this, this and this. Whether I perceived it that way personally or not, it doesn’t matter. That’s how they perceive me. So I’m going to apologize for it because I care more about this relationship, uh, than, than letting it go into the rug and act like, and is it that big of a deal?

I don’t know. I don’t think it probably was to that person, but it’s, it’s still the right thing to do to apologize for things you’ve done wrong. Um,

Andrew: and it could have easily festered into. A huge thing because every time they saw you

Josh: and I think it was festering yeah. Into a huge thing, like with other people that knew about it.

I wasn’t one of those people, but like, I think it was becoming a thing. It didn’t have to be a thing. So I had to apologize and make it right. But that’s how you apologize. You just. Like, if you want to make it right, it’s not about defending yourself. If you want to fix the relationship, it’s not about how you perceived your, what you thought really happened.

It doesn’t matter what matters is someone feels like you hurt them and you want to make it right for the sake of that relationship to continue. Because if you don’t like say they hold onto it. Well, at this point, it’s not my problem that they hold onto it. Right. Like, I can’t do anything about that. I’ve done.

I’ve done what I can to try to make it right. Right. If they want to hold the record of wrong. Does between them and Jesus, they can deal with it, but I’m not going to function. Like there’s a record of wrong that exists anymore. Like I’m just going to function like we’re in a relationship. We’re coworkers, we’re on the same team.

We’re trying to chase after the same goals. I love you. I hopefully you love me. If not, that’s okay. Didn’t say this has to be mutual for me to love you. And we’re just going to move on like that. But yeah, there’s a right way to apologize and a wrong way to apologize. And I would say 90% of the time, people apologize in the wrong way.

I would say 90% of the time I’ve apologized in the wrong way. I’m like, I don’t want to put that on other people only like, um, I’m in the boat just with you. I get it. It’s easier to defend our actions, but that doesn’t fix relationship. Defending an a defending apology is not an apology and is not going to fix the relationship.

You got to keep the end goal in mind. Right? The end goal is relationship. The end goal is I love you well in this relationship. So are my actions in this moment, helping that or hurting that. And if they’re hurting that, cut those parts out and just focus on the things that are helping that, whether you think you’re just in it or not, doesn’t matter, all that matters is I’m trying to help relationship.

And that’s what Jesus said. I want you to love me, and I want you to love others. Well, we got to be good at it. It’s not easy. It’s not the easiest life we’re called to, but when we dig into our relationship with Jesus and let Jesus foremost and shape us, we get to see that fruit pouring into the relationships around us.

We get to see new eyes and the relationships around us. I would argue that. We are better followers of Jesus in terms of following Jesus, loving him and loving others. Well today than we were a year ago. Um, because we’ve chosen to take Jesus command seriously, and we’re going to love people. Well, um, because that’s, who’s called us to do

Andrew: yeah.

Love people. Well, forgive people as well as you can work on getting better at forgiving people, uh, because the weight of carrying unforgiveness is a weight you’re not supposed to carry. And it’s a weight that God doesn’t carry towards us. Um, That’s true. So don’t put yourself in that place. It’s a bad place to be in and a man that’s, that’s practical and helpful of just how to, how to do a real apology.

I know I’ve often been tempted that I, whenever I need to apologize, I’m often tempted to first kind of rationalize,

Josh: always attempted, I would say

Andrew: like, yeah, personally for me,

Josh: I’ve always attempted to rationalize and justify and, and to make it

Andrew: like, well, I didn’t do anything wrong, but here’s all three reasons why you felt that, you know, Hey, it’s like, no, just, just own it.

You hurt somebody else.

Josh: And there’s a part of you that feels like it’s wrong. You’re like, well, I’m just feeding into their unhealthy. No, like, stop it. Stop looking at the damn specks in their eye. When you have a log, you gotta deal with

Andrew: your own eyes. That’s going to like it hurts or if you’re,

Josh: it hurts the people around you because logs are, are aren’t little, like you move around and they’re going to hit everyone around you.

Like it’s causing damage. You don’t even realize freaking log.

Andrew: You can even put your glasses on. Right. It’s a big deal. It’s a big deal. But bro, that’s all I got. Hey Dona. That’s all I got

Josh: you. Just forgive people, man.

Andrew: Forgive people. God forgives us.

Josh: Hey, we’re going to keep this series going. We’re a little over halfway through first Corinthians 13.

Uh, the first eight verses love is patient love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It’s not self-seeking it. I screwed that up in the it’s does not dishonor others. It’s not self-seeking it’s not easily angered. It keeps no records of wrong. Next week we’ll we’ll cover love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.

I’ll say this. It doesn’t mean what you think.

Andrew: Geezer

Josh: tune in next week.

Andrew: Thanks for listening to our show. It really means a lot to us, and we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and with other people.

Josh: And it also helps us out. If you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening on and also follow us on Instagram and the Facebook.

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