Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just to normal. He was trying to live. That’s a jesus’ life. My name’s Josh.

Andrew: Hey, Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast. Josh, how you doing,

Josh: dude? It’s been a while. No,

Andrew: it’s in a minute. Yeah. Um, and, and this is no, we didn’t. You’re right. We, uh, we were slackers for sure. Last week we were just kind of took a week off.

Josh: But that’s okay. It’s

Andrew: good to see yours.

Josh: That’s

Andrew: what everybody wants, dude. This is great. Good. Okay. So I was listening to our last episode and in the last episode, I announced that I’d got like two or three eggs that day and I was pretty pumped about it. I literally had a 10 egg day yesterday. Dude, I am getting chicken eggs, like crazy tanning day.

Yeah. And today I got ate the day before that that’s like day before my 10 X. Okay. So chickens are good. Chickens are good. However, one randomly escaped to the other day and I have no idea how I walked back there to just check on him. And one was just walking around breakfast, the chicken of all chickens,

Josh: probably fly.

Andrew: Yeah. Well, yeah, but no, I have the top fence. It’s fenced all the way around. I think it’s a down sale.

Josh: Maybe

Andrew: they did. I couldn’t find it, man. So the breakfast,

Josh: he likes to dig holes, convince a different dog to go out and stay in the yard.

Andrew: That’s fair. That’s fair enough. Yeah, well, so they’re good. Overall. It sounds like Jack is conniving and overall good as well.

Yeah.

Josh: Yeah,

Andrew: dude. This is a, uh, this is a unique episode because it sounds like it’s just you and me right now, but, uh, it’s not,

Josh: but I see another person.

Andrew: Seriously.

Josh: If you look

Andrew: to your left, you seem very close.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, no,

it’s not at all.

Andrew: Not

Stewart: going to tell me under the bus like that.

Andrew: You’re not even

Stewart: looking. Doesn’t

Josh: do social districts. No, no, no. In general I do just in this moment. I’m not,

Andrew: no, honestly, if I was a middle school, school dance chaperone, I’d probably separate you two a little bit.

Josh: Oh, we’re not that close.

Andrew: Close man.

Leave room for Jesus. All right.

Josh: Yeah, it looks like that camera up. Now he’s touching me. You’ve heard his voice, but let’s properly introduce or do we call him stupidity? I’m not sure he appreciates that. He likes to go by stupid

for his friends back in Nashville, but our editor, this is Christian’s Stuart.

Andrew: Thanks for

Stewart: having me on guys.

Josh: We’re excited.

Andrew: Yeah. It’s

Josh: nice to call them our producer. Yeah, he is corrected and there’s occasions, right. He wants to be called her editor because he wants to know credit told about, finished to him.

Andrew: We’re learning the bids, you know, and, uh, and that’s part of it. But anyway, Stewart, we used to play, play a spike ball together. Often we used to hang out at cookouts often.

Josh: That was like the cooking.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. We played spike ball right before you left. That’s true. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. It’s Colorado. And then I did Josh.

You’re next, bro?

Josh: I like it. Yeah. And you guys can always come back. So

Andrew: yeah. So Stewart. What? Uh, I wish I was there so bad, then we’d have three mic problems, but I wish I was there. Um, Stuart, what have you been doing in Colorado? How do you find yourself sitting next to Josh and, uh, well, I know how you find yourself on the show, but what have you been up to, man?

Why are you in Colorado again? That is a great

Stewart: question. Um, first of all, it’s been a couple of years and so it was just time. Um, and I came up with a buddy of mine. I had an extra week and I’ve started editing podcasts a lot. And in doing that, I’ve got some flexibility I can fly and drive around and I really missed Josh a lot, found myself crying at night and just couldn’t explain it.

Josh: Hello, he’s being serious

Stewart: message. And it’s just like, man, it’s time.

Andrew: I’m coming out

Josh: here.

Andrew: Well, I’m glad you’re here. That’s all I’m trying to say is I’m glad you’re here

Josh: with you. It was like a whole business. We’re just, yeah. Non-paying he has a fair amount of pain gloves. Well,

Andrew: he’s getting them soon. I can feel it.

I could feel it

Stewart: already. I’m going to, okay. I said it all the time.

Josh: Why is this bad?

Stewart: No, I’m just, I mean, I’m kinda joking, kind, not,

Josh: it’s nice to have record that was like,

Andrew: I’ll go into minutes

Stewart: and I’ll just delete everything before that.

Andrew: Don’t delete everything before that. Come on. Now let’s be authentic.

Josh: Kinda just, um, maybe evaluate where we’re at. Look at what Jesus is, speaking to us individually, and to share that.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, I it’s been awhile and, uh, and you guys are just coming off of a retreat. Um, that, that you, you know, kind of put together and led pieces of Josh, you put together Stuart, you led worship and were a part of it.

So I just felt like it might be a really good time to do a conversation around what is God saying to you? Um, that kind of idea. It doesn’t have to be like the audible. This is what God told me. Yes. But maybe it is. I don’t know. So, um, I just figured we can catch up and talk about that. I have a tiny bit prepared on it, but more than anything, I was hoping that with you bros coming off a retreat, you might have some great, like.

This is what God spoke to me, or this is, um, what I learned about myself or something in that time. So that’s a rough topic. Um, it’s not a

Josh: rough time. It’s like a rough set of topic. It’s a great topic

Andrew: set up for the, for good topics,

Josh: I guess w right. Um, we. We, I mean, hosted what we call that Jesus get away up in beautiful Breckenridge Colorado.

Now, one of my favorites to visit this house that we rented did not disappoint and Breckenridge is different and the amazing people did not disappoint, but Stewart was already coming out and hanging out with a friend this week. He likes a lot more than me, but I won’t be hurt by.

Andrew: Uh,

Stewart: I’m going to break in there.

This podcast can not be an opportunity for you to say things about me, but then I don’t have enough. As soon as you speak into it, you know what

Josh: I’m saying? Live in,

Stewart: and that’s what I’m doing. I’ll let you know every time you do that, I’ll be jumping in.

Josh: Cause usually we take shots for those listening, uh, just between Andrew and I just hear some of the editing cuts them out, but now he’s, uh, but we’re up in Breckenridge.

For the, to get away, really, we spent a lot of time talking about the idea between performance and trust. How do we perform for Jesus or self-reliance or self-effort compared to how do we live in relationship with Jesus? Um, and it was a great weekend. Uh, but students was coming to see a friend and that’s what it was, uh, things like, Hey, I’m going to actually be out the week before.

And I said, how sweet would it be if we could get students to lead worship for us with a bunch of people that know him and, you know, he led worship for years past and just a nice moment of reminiscing. Uh, but the weekend was great. It was great opportunity to kind of look to the past and remember great stories, um, and also kind of look to the future.

Um, but yeah, it was, it was a great weekend for

Stewart: us. Yeah, thanks for inviting me out, man.

Josh: Oh, thanks for coming out. But my friend.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s awesome. When you like Josh, you were a pastor for a long time. Like you’ve led a lot of retreats, but how much? I guess I’m just curious, like when you’re, when you’re leading people through that type of experience.

Like, do you feel like God speaks to you more in the, in the preparation for that time? Or as you’re like delivering? I know you’re not just like preaching constantly or whatever, but you’re, you’re leading. Right. So do you feel like God speaks to you more as you’re preparing for the weekend or as you’re actually like delivering the content?

Or do you have a good method to like go through it with people? Like,

Josh: I don’t know. Oh, that’s a good question. Um, I guess it depends on what the structure of the retreat is to generally, um, because there’s so many moving parts on the retreats that I’ve planned in the past. Most of jesus’ speaking happens before we ever get to the retreat and I’m just trying to execute and get through it.

Um, but this retreat, we kind of took a different approach to you. So we spent a lot of time in conversation with, um, I didn’t preach at all. Um, it kind of said that we can, and that was really the only talking that I did for everybody. And then we split into groups, um, In environments like that, I was definitely able to gauge the conversation.

I’ll let you speak more than just the planning though. Like the topics that we chose to cover, um, have been something that had been brewing inside of me and Jesus speaking inside of me for the last six months to a year. So it was just kind of helping other people experience what I’ve experienced. Um, but yeah, this was definitely move it.

It was a

Andrew: good weekend. Cool man. Yeah. I just, I’ve never led through that type of, I mean, I’ve, I’ve led in like the volunteers on the side of that, you know, I’m a part of those things, but I’ve never been out front essentially for themselves. I was just curious Stuart in the same way, like leading worship.

Um, if you don’t know people, uh, Stuart led worship with, um, with us, uh, when we serve together in ministry, all three of us, uh, he led worship for. Quite awhile a couple years, two, three years. Um, that’s how we got to know each other was serving together. So when you’re leading a worship in general, like, I don’t know.

Do you feel like I’m speaking to you in that time or is it just something you’re like. Gifted to lead in. Like, I don’t know. Talk to me about that.

Stewart: I want to say that my aim in just being there and facilitating the singing of songs is really, it’s a communal thing. And so for me, the, the beauty of it and the experience is hearing other people say things about who God is all at the same time and just kind of reaffirming and Bree connecting in the faith, um, by all committing.

Kind of too. And that’s why, you know, lyrics are just really important, I guess when you’re, uh, choosing songs, you want to make sure that basically you’re just setting the stage for good conversation about who God is and what’s God, God has done. And so I think this weekend, the biggest thing I was looking to do is just find a few songs that were approachable.

And then, you know, as the weekend goes on, I don’t want to say that somehow Josh and I sat for three hours and planned out every topic. And cause that would be a lot. Yeah. But just being attuned to what God’s doing and yeah. Um, Not getting in the way of that and not making it about the worship experience

Josh: and like, isn’t that the secret.

So often they’re like, I think this is where we struggle is as leaders inside the church is we feel this need to create disciples of ourselves rather than help people become disciples of Jesus. Um, and I think. Sue did that. Great. And you just explained it great in terms of like, it’s not my job to get people to follow me.

It’s my job to set the stage and then get up. Um, so I think that’s a lot of what it happened this weekend and there’s a lot of great conversation that happened. And I know there’s a lot of pondering that happened, you know, comments like you either pray this much in a day, not organization. Organized cause we have a ton of that, but I didn’t pray as much as I did over the last couple of days that I’ve prayed in years.

Um, so I think it was a healing experience for many and one reconnection for many, but let’s kind of get back to the topic at hand. And what is Jesus kind of teaching you?

Andrew: Yeah, I was so it’s funny. I put this out as we should do this discussion, uh, and I may have, I didn’t have a great answer for it. Um, But I was thinking about it.

Cause I knew we were going to talk about this tonight. And, um, man, a couple days back, three, four days back, um, Psalm 33. Uh, I listened to that. I was like, while I was getting ready in the morning, I listened to like a bunch of songs that day and Psalm 33 was one of them. And, uh, I guess in this season, um, there’s just a lot of, of demands on my life and a lot of responsibility on my life.

We joke about the 16 chickens, but dude, I care about them. I don’t want to let them die. I don’t want their food to be out or water to be out. And that’s just one of many, many things on top of like raising a toddler, trying to be a good husband working to provide for my family. I’m trying to make good decisions.

I don’t know. It’s just one of, many of the responsibilities kind of in my life. I was feeling kind of the weight of just responsibility in my life life, um, a few days ago and I was starting to get, uh, Starting to put myself too much in the seat of, I actually control stuff in my life. I’m starting to think.

I control things that I don’t starting to have some kind of fears and anxieties over things that are totally out of my control. Um, like the job situation I’ve talked about in the past, there’s a job I’d love to have that I interviewed for that. Uh, got all the way to the final and, and other people did as well.

We still have no idea who’s going to get a, an offer or if anyone will get an offer. Um, so there’s, there’s that kind of hanging in the background of like, you could provide better for your family with this, you could do more with this. It’d be more stimulating and difficult, all these things that are like things that I want ambitions.

Right. I have that I started to worry about. And, uh, and I can’t control at the end of the day at all. So there’s a lot of that kind of creeping up. In my mind. And, uh, when I heard Psalm 33, um, there was a chunk of it, uh, verses 13 through 22, which I’ll read. Um, it says from heaven, the Lord looks down and sees all of mankind from his dwelling place.

He watches all who live on earth. He who forms the hearts of all who considers everything they do. No King is saved by the arm by the size of his army. No warrior escapes by his great strength. A horse is a vain hope for deliverance to spite all its strength cannot save, but the eyes of the Lord are on those who fear him on those whose hope is in his unfailing.

Love to deliver them from death and keep them alive and famine. We wait in the hope of the Lord. He is our help and our shield in him or her through Joyce for we trust in his Holy name. May your unfailing love be with us Lord, even as we put our hope in, you. Um, and that’s just been like going through my, my mind a lot of times, especially that line about like, um, a war, horse.

Can’t save you, even though it’s super strong, that doesn’t matter. So that that’s been going through my mind and honestly, um, it’s just been me trying to, I feel like God is saying to me, You can’t control this stuff. Don’t try. It’s just going to stress you out, you know? Um, and he hasn’t spoken that audibly, but he gave me Psalm 33 to literally listen to and think about, and it’s just kept going back and back and back.

Yeah. In my mind. So I’m like last night that was rocking my daughter in the middle of the night and yeah. And, uh, when she was awake, crying about whatever and, uh, trying to get her back to sleep. Then the worry and fear was starting to creep back up about things that can control. And I thought about that passage and just said, God, I can’t control this stuff.

You can take it from me. Like, I don’t want to worry about it. I know I shouldn’t worry about it. Cause I know I can’t control it. So somewhere in all of that is what I think I’d say to me kind of this week. Right? You guys good?

Josh: I think we said it. In the last episode, if I remember correctly, but there’s like this direct correlation with what we try to control to how much we worry.

And this kind of leads into even what Jesus has been speaking to my life over the last six months is just the importance of relationship and the importance of trust inside a relationship, not just with him, like the vertical, but also zonal. And the level of that. We shouldn’t live in against trust and vulnerability and honesty with one another is just as important with Scott himself.

And I think for most Christians, we probably do a much better job. The vertical and horizontal doesn’t feel safer, but I don’t think we do a good job of the vertical. And I think that’s the piece that Jesus has really been showing me like, Um, I was at a conference a few weeks ago and someone just made this comment or statement, you know, this whole thing is about relationship.

And you said someone, you know, when you were at the Bible, kind of the whole split it up with your fingers, put your finger on it on the page. Uh, and it’s going to be about relationship. So the guy just essentially it’s relationship, right? Like, um, Jesus has asked in, in the gospels, what’s the greatest commandment.

Jesus replied, love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind. And the second is like, it love your neighbor as yourself. Like it’s relationship it’s relationship with God and his relationship with one another. Um, and. I think that’s just what Jesus has been really leaning into me on over the last few months of how do I have better relationship with Jesus?

And we’ve talked about this right over the pot. Like you’ve heard it, you know, we went through spiritual disciplines and we talked about spiritual disciplines because of the, um, Importance of those things to develop relationship, not to do those things, but the result of those things should be Michael.

And that’s more relationship with Jesus. And I spend a lot more time being it’s own report about. From what I’m hearing, what I’m thinking about with Jesus than I have had at any point in my life. And I spent a lot less time in worry or fear about things like in this is kind of where we set up this retreat way.

This last week. It was, Jesus told those standing around you, that the seeds destroyed life and give it to the full or others are sending it to the abundant life. And, you know, I look around at Christian from that smell, what. Seems to be the case. They don’t seem to have a full life for an abundant life or an exciting life, a life where they’re like, man, I never thought any of these things were possible.

Not that sense of prosperity, but in the sense of depth, in the sense of meaning and those kinds of things. Um, so I think that’s a big piece of this. I can feel it a lot more killing, destroying, and, and stealing. Right? So it’s helping others. Find that the full life that Jesus promised us. And I think a big portion of that full life, don’t try and do it on your own.

It’s not about self effort. It’s 100% about living inside of the grace that she has provided through sacrifice on the cross and inside relationship with him. And then the other side of that is I’ve got a love of people that do the same,

Andrew: the tricky part is that all of what you said. I know. And I agree with, and I’ve been in agreement.

For a long time on those things. But then I find myself at two eight, I am rocking my daughter back to sleep and fear and worry starts creeping up. We literally just talked about fear and anxiety recently. Um, and you’re right, man. Maybe it’s, uh, maybe it’s that I’m not leaning into relationship enough. So God is teaching me this lesson of don’t try to control what you can’t control.

You know, I got it. I know about it. I’m aware of it. I’m present in it. All of that, but, um, anyway, that’s a good reminder for me. Um,

Stewart: yeah. Yeah. I think it’s important just to say for a second, you know, when we’re emphasizing relationship with God, I think it trips a lot of

Josh: people up

Stewart: because we understand what it means to have a relationship with the person sitting next to you.

We understand what it means to have a relationship with a family member, a friend, because they’re human. So. It seems like we get really tripped up just on the concept and the language of how does

Andrew: relate

Stewart: yeah. With us. And how do we relate to him? And obviously the great example of Cod relating to us is becoming like us,

Andrew: which is huge.

Stewart: But another piece I think it’s important to think about is how does God talk about

Josh: our

Stewart: relationship and his word? And it seems to be like a familial

Josh: relationship.

Andrew: Hmm.

Stewart: And so being able to understand that God sees this as a father, son, father, daughter,

Josh: relationship

Stewart: DOD sees this as being heirs. And, you know, I have not gotten wrapped up in a wheel yet, but when that happens, I will have a deeper understanding of these kinds of things.

And so when we say have a relationship with God, it’s so easy for people to get to. The pleasing God,

Josh: because

Stewart: there’s not great context for what kind of relationship that is.

Josh: That’s good.

Andrew: That is good.

Josh: And that’s the hardest part of this concept of this idea is I don’t. Noah terminology, you use that redefines it for you because the terminology I’m using.

If you’ve spent any time in the church, you’ve heard this your entire time, you’ve been there, like God sent his son Jesus to restore relationship. Um, but it’s, there’s a different piece to this, of what relationship really means, like in familiar. Yeah. I think that’s a part of it. And I was asking your dads, I’m like, okay.

Now that you have a daughter, now they have a son. Cause that changed your view of God, the fathers, you know of you. Um, and some do some don’t, it kind of depends on the person, but I think there’s something really of that. Okay. I do absolutely anything, uh, right for my daughter to win, to succeed, or I do absolutely anything for my son.

Like. It’s the same thing that God looks at us. Like I absolutely 100% with all of his being loves us. He’s not going to love us anymore and he’s not going to love us any less. And do we sit inside that love? Like one of the concepts we talked about this weekend was, um, I believe that God loves me, but when I screw up, I think he likes me a little less.

And I don’t know if we fully am. I think that’s a hard topic to embrace, but at the same time, like there’s really something to it. Like when I sin you feel this temptation to beat yourself up, I’m a horrible person. God, and God responses I sent, I sent my son Jesus to take care of that. It’s done it’s over with move on, live inside the grace that I’ve provided rather than this self-effort of, I have to.

Eradicate all sins in my life. Right? Like, you know, you can even take, take the example of sexual sin because it’s the easy one. Right. Everyone knows how to, how it’s dealt with. And we all feel that temptation of it and inside of sexual sin, like the solution to it always fight the temptations, fight the triggers.

It’s all about self-effort white knuckle this thing and get it down and get you down to the root. And then you. You’re a good Christian, but in reality, Jesus loves you in the midst of the sin. And Jesus loves you in the midst of you committing these, these acts. He’s right there with you in the midst of these kids, many of these acts, and it’s not actually about the accents.

Right. Um, and you’ve heard this said, and I just, it was enough in terms of fighting sexual sin, um, of you just have to lean into more relationship with Jesus. Like, if I lean into more relationship with Jesus, it starts to rewire my brain, the things that I want, the lies that I’ve believed, and it, the fight becomes less and less and less against my sensations.

Um, and you’re like, that’s not enough. Right. That’s usually like, yeah, that sounds great. Yeah. But it sounds very up in the clouds and kind of shit. Like they can’t be all. There’s got to be something I have to do. And I think that’s the big piece that Jesus teach me. It’s not about self effort. It’s not about performance.

I’m sure. Well, I assume sooner I’m a Saint that still since, and there’s a big difference between the two, right? Like if that’s where I need to live inside of. And when I live inside of relationship and I really start to love Jesus more than I love the sins that are around me. Well, listen is around me are less of a temptation.

Because one of the lies we believe is the sin is going to give me greater pleasure than my relationship with Jesus. Um, and when that starts to shift and change, you’re like, Oh no, no, no. Like my relationship with Jesus, what’s the most important. Um, and then, you know, it’s the whole idea and it, you know, it’s like Christians have this, um, belief down at salvation.

There’s enough I can do. And that’s going to store me back to the creator because of my sin. And I believe in faith that Jesus was who said he was dead. He said he was going to do, and I am forgiven. But then somewhere along the way, that’s not enough. And I started to take the reins back and I say, it’s up to me to combat my life.

It’s up to me, the white knuckle with himself after yes. And perform better. And then God’s going to love when I’m going to be closer to Jesus, but none of that’s true. Like jesus’ sacrifice on the cross restored relationship. I’m now a new creation. I have all. Of Jesus ever going to get, and it’s an expansive, I got an infinity amount and I have no right now in the midst of my sin as a new creation.

And I think that’s the hard piece for people to grab, but man, is it freeing when we get it right? Like that’s the thing where I get to live in abundance interest in essentially worry free life because I know my God is in control and I am in relationship with a God that deeply loves me. That always likes me no matter what my actions.

Stewart: Yeah. You know, something, I think people get confused on and I love that you brought this part of the topic is that it seems like we as believers apply the same. Thing in salvation that we do in w in the walking with God. And so the concept that you have, everyone who has truly come to see the sweetness of the grace of Jesus, came to it from a perspective that they had nothing to offer him.

That is not. Um, unnatural to the human and Christian experience. But this concept that when your sin, when you’ve crossed the line, or you have this understanding that a line has been crossed, but when you cross the line and you sin against God and you don’t feel close to him that somehow

Andrew: you put the pre.

I don’t want going to call it preach salvation. I don’t

Stewart: know if that’s the best term, but you put this pre salvation concept on this salvation relationship,

Andrew: which is that

Stewart: sin in the beginning is what separated us from God

Andrew: and created

Stewart: not only not relationship, but in internal posture being. Against being unrighteous and unable to be with God.

And so it seems like the biggest.

Josh: Hurdle

Stewart: for believers, including myself is to somehow not fly this old concept to this

Josh: relationship

Stewart: because it’s easy to go close to Cod. My sin exists,

Josh: therefore, somehow we’re just

Stewart: Adam and Eve in the garden getting the Apple again. And somehow we feel like the whole thing needs to

Josh: happen in order for us to be

Stewart: right.

And man, I

Josh: put that. Yeah, I think we all do, but yeah, there’s so much freedom in that.

Andrew: That’s really good. And Stewart, as you were talking, I, uh, Something popped in my mind. Um, earlier I was, um, I was grilling outside. I was grilling some food for dinner and my daughter was out there running around and we have all these plants like right next to the porch.

And. She knows that those are not plants, you can eat, but we have a garden. So she kind of thinks in the back of her mind, all plants are things. Yeah. You can eat, you know? So, um, basically, uh, she leans down and rips a leaf, um, like hugely right off, right out of the ground. And, uh, And I’m like, Hey, you can’t do that.

That’s not, you can’t eat that Katherine stop. Like, don’t do that. Don’t rip these leaves, you know? And I take it away from her, put it away. And, uh, 30 seconds later, she runs back over there, rips two out, you know? And I said out allowed to her, um, I was like, actually, yes, send it to myself because I felt like I was talking to myself and just said, um, I feel like.

You just don’t even hear me sometimes. But then in the back of my mind, I’m like, but if I say there’s a snake back, or do you want a cookie or something? It’s like, you clearly hear me. Um, cause that’s what I was thinking was like, you, you hear me, but you’re not listening. You know? Like I just feel like you’re not hearing me so often.

And, uh, and as you were talking Stewart, I was just thinking like, Out of this like familial context with God as our father, how often man, does he do stuff or say stuff in our life? And not that he like looks in all frustrated at us and says, feel like you don’t even hear me, you know, but how often, um, At least for me, I feel like pretty often he probably could look at me and be like, you only hear me when you help you.

When you want to hear me, you only hear what I’m saying when you want to hear what I’m saying, when you’re trying to hear what I’m saying, when that answer suits you, Andrew. Um, but when I tell you not to rip that leaf again, you know, it’s like, you didn’t even hear me. It’s like, I didn’t say anything. So I don’t know that just pops in my mind for what it’s

Stewart: worth.

Josh: Yeah. And I think it’s that proper view of our sin and in jesus’ sacrifice for that sin, right? Like God calls things sin because of the destruction that they cause not in just our lives, but in the lives of those around us. Um, so like it’s out of a place of great love. That he gives us commands, avoid these things.

Like, and I think that’s the point we constantly miss. Like, I feel like it’s this list and just trying to complete, and then I’m a good person. And Jesus said, no, no, no, no, you’re already a new creation. Like I’m already at youth through my spirit. Like nothing else you need to do, but these sins are going to cause destruction.

Like, and I love you enough to tell you that avoid these things or they’re going to cause destruction. And I think that’s where we, we constantly miss it, but let me read this as a caution. So does Paul writing to the Colossians chapter two, you and I says we were all dead in our sin, this kind of in our conversation.

Um, but we were all dead in our sins and in this. In the uncircumcision of our flesh, essentially, meaning just not of God yet made you alive with Christ. He forgave us of all of our sins. He canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us. He has taken it away and nailed it.

Yeah, I think we believe that it’s salvation, but we don’t believe that moving forward. Hmm. And I think there’s so much freedom where we choose to believe that my sin is taken care of. Now. We still confess our sin. We still ask for Jesus when we can suppress her sins to one another, because of relationship and because of restoration.

Even in the midst of those moments, like God, no saying I don’t like you, or God’s not saying you are not enough. Um, because you’ve fallen short. He’s saying no, no, you’re already a new creation. I’ve already taken care of these things. They’re done. They’re over with let’s move on. Yeah. And I think we miss that often.

Andrew: That’s good.

Stewart: Yeah, that’s a reminds me of, I don’t remember what C S Lewis book it is. Maybe you can help me out here, but there’s a group of, it’s an allegory. There’s a group of people on a bus from hell trying to go to heaven. Right. And as they enter into God’s presence, they start to just become these hollow faded versions of themselves, because they’re not,

Andrew: what’s really real.

Stewart: And it’s this idea that sin is not, what’s really real. And people who engage in sin are engaging in something that’s got. An expiration date on it, man. So yeah, this concept of really just understanding what God says about you and who you are and who he is because at the end of the day, that’s the only thing that’s really going to be left over.

If

Josh: that makes

Stewart: kind of the point that you’re trying to make is just this concept that if we allow our sin

Josh: to,

Stewart: if we treat our sin differently than God does

Andrew: to work,

Stewart: we’re not engaged in a

Josh: reality

Stewart: playing a game. And so the goal of,

Andrew: I

Stewart: don’t want to say the purpose of the effect of sin believer.

Andrew: Is

Stewart: opportunity to come back and, and almost recommit with God of seeing it the way he

Josh: sees it.

Okay. That

Stewart: makes sense.

Josh: Yeah.

Stewart: Instead of seeing it the way,

Josh: I think kind of tag onto that, I think oftentimes we think our job as Christians is sinless. And Jesus. Didn’t ask us to send Les. He said, love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself, lean into relationship.

Trust me, like that’s where we live inside of like, that’s the goal of our lives as followers of Jesus. Like this Jesus life is about relationship. It’s about diving into relationship with Jesus. It’s about diving in relationship with each other soon as a part of that story. Hope we’re learning things along the way.

And Jesus is maturing Newkirk, Newkirk creations to combats in that is destructive in our lives and allies around us. But the goal is to be more people. The goal is to sinless. The goal is to be in more evil relationship with Jesus.

Stewart: My only qualification with that would be, so we look in scripture. It’s not that God asks us to sin more or less.

But, um, I mean, you get a lot of sin

Josh: no more.

Stewart: So there’s this piece of, it’s not about, and this is I guess, where you start to feel a little complicated, but it’s not about

Josh: being good enough to get over. This are.

Stewart: And then I feel like, then I’m God. I feel like you do where you really appreciate the gifts I gave to you.

There’s this concept and it’s the concept of fruit,

Josh: um,

Stewart: being kind of being grafted in which the concept that you’re talking about, Josh, which is be connected to the fine

Josh: and allow

Stewart: the light to come in you and sustain you. And

Josh: watch

Stewart: the fruit and that’s a negative here. It’s not, don’t show this, don’t do that.

It’s beat in and walk in love, walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you’ve been called. And he gives us the ability to do that as we remain in him. We

Josh: offer that

Stewart: to him as a cool

Josh: gift. Yeah, that’s good.

Andrew: Yeah. I think the last point of what you said stir is, is key and is gold of just, we don’t do that.

You know, we are called, uh,

Stewart: Jesus often

Andrew: would say, therefore, go and sin no more. Um, Two people that he had just healed from physical things. Okay. Go now send no more, you know, and it was like this, what the heck are you saying? Like said no more. Um, I’ve always sent in some and I’ve always sacrificed some.

So what do you mean go and send no more. And man, that was really good. The way you said that of just like you’re grafted in, uh, to the body of Christ you’re grafted into, um, God himself in a way. Therefore go and sin no more through his power, not through being perfect and not through trying to get to the, if I just commit only seven sentence today.

I’m good. You know, not to try to pass the test. Because it’s not up to you, whether you pass the test or not. Um, it’s, it’s what Jesus did on the cross that, that matters. You already passed the test, therefore going send no more, you know, like,

Stewart: I don’t know, he’s on the planner and he’s trying to not make a point, but he’s trying to help people understand.

Uh, which is it easier to say, pick up your mat and walk or your sins are forgiven. I’m going to be able to show you how I’m able to do the second one.

Josh: I’m going to show you the first

Stewart: one. And so I do think that this command and no more is for the person

Josh: in the story

Stewart: it’s for us. I think it’s true that applies to

Josh: believers.

Stewart: But I also think that he was up to some home and trying to show kind of. And the prodigal sign you’ve got the older brother. He was kind of trying to just throw a different group of people sometimes, and the Apple can make that claim.

Josh: Yeah, no, that’s true. That’s good. Good. Yeah. The times we take the position though, the older brother, right?

Like in the store of the product was sending the, into the story of the prodigal son. If you’re new to this Christian life is the younger son kind of turned his back on the figure of God and the story, which was the dad ran away with his inheritance, kind of squandered it all and then came back with his tail between his legs and the father just walk them to him with open arms.

The older brother was like, what the heck Jesus, or what the heck father, like you had this big party for him, but you wouldn’t even give me this. And his statement to him was, you know, when, when Gary, your brother was lost, so now he’s found and where that’s going to be celebrated and you have everything that I have.

Why are you upset?

Andrew: This was a good tangent. And I feel like I, uh, I don’t know if this is a tangent or there’s the whole point of the conversation. Um, but I dunno, is there. I’m just curious with you guys is God, is God speaking anything to you, uh, these days or, or recently, um, that I don’t know that you want to talk about?

Stewart: Yeah, I’ll jump in. I think I’m learning a lot right now. Kind of drinking through a fire hose and my faith and to get the kind of wide. The far away picture of you, um, you know, most of my doubts and issues and just insecurities in my faith come from an intellectual standpoint of like, God, this doesn’t make sense, God.

And since you don’t make sense, you can’t be real. And so I would say that the last, let me five, six, seven, eight years of my faith has been very, um, feelings. Oriented. It’s like, if you’re going to have a relationship with me, come do it. And what I can feel of it, um, is what is, how I’ll know that you’re really there because I don’t understand you.

And that leads to a faith that is very circumstantial because you have to get together with believers and you have to sing the song and you have to pump yourself and you have to feel close to God. And I think God is, um, that’s using the last year or so of my life to, um, reengage him. In some way intellectually or just with my mind to be able to understand that how he represents himself in the Bible is sufficient and helpful is the wrong word, but that he’s created, he hasn’t rigged the system against me in a way where I can’t understand the most important parts about who he is.

And so a lot of, I think what I’ve been experiencing is, um, so that’s the firehose part. It’s even understanding what is sin? Who is God? What is the, what is the scripture, um, kind of those big concepts. And I think something that I’ve really been focused on the last, I guess a couple of weeks is a concept that lives at my church, which is this idea of, um, If you want to create an environment where people have the ability to grow closer in relationship with Christ, which is what we’re talking about.

You need the gospel and safety and time you need all three of those things. Um, and for me that has been an important kind of equation that I’ve been. Walking around with the last few weeks. And I think the biggest piece right now that I’m kind of honed in on is the safety piece. Um, you know, for example, the greatest example, Jesus Christ was incredible at creating safe environments for people to be with him and for people to hear the good news of who he was.

And, um, I, so I think, you know, being able to go to this retreat and just hearing what. God’s doing in Josh and how he wanted to use that retreat. It was a lot about, um, faith versus what was the other word

Josh: you used? Uh, works

Stewart: for me. I love that. Um, yeah, and this concept of a performing iron is not a safe environment to understand who Christ is because it’s so antichrist.

And so for me, I think a lot of what I’ve been focusing on lately is walking into environments and just really trying to understand how do we create an area where people can be safe, feel safe to be themselves. And it takes, I think Josh kind of. I learned this weekend. There’s nothing I can do to walk into a room and then boom.

And everybody just feels safe and all this

Josh: stuff just starts pouring out.

Stewart: It’s really

Josh: an exercise

Stewart: in some ways it’s a muscle that we are so bad at. Um, but it’s the muscle that allows us to trust Christ. Because I don’t feel safe

Andrew: because I don’t

Stewart: feel like God is safe at some level, or at least I can’t trust you.

I just don’t have the muscle to trust Christ. I think that’s been the thing that just keeps coming at me again and again, and again, you have to pursue safety because until you do, you’re going to stay in

Josh: yourself.

Stewart: And that’s what you’re really good at. And to kind of like

Josh: back onto that, like that safe environment doesn’t happen by accident.

Like someone has to take the first risk. Like I have to model, uh, open, vulnerable, honest me, uh, with the good and the bad, all that is with other people. And that’s the terrifying part. Right. But that’s the only way that we get that safe environment is someone has to bottle it so it can be safe and there’s risk in that.

Um, but the second it’s modeled and others kind of catch the vision that they start to function inside of it as well. And now you have real honest conversation,

Andrew: Stuart, I’m just glad, uh, You’re still here. As you were, as you were talking about being in a space of like feeling driven a relationship with Jesus.

Yeah. I don’t know. I didn’t say it as well as you said it, but as you were talking about being in that space and that space where it was like more about, I feel it, so I believe it’s true. And I just feel like that’s a, that says a spot that’s really like precarious to be in, I guess. And, uh, A lot of people don’t come from back from that.

And I think thing, most people don’t come back from that. Um, honestly, and I think that like, if you want to know my primary, one of my primary goals with this podcast is that I hope somebody who’s on the edge of not coming back from that listens to this and decides to reengage with God in a real way, decides like, Oh, I can actually live out this jesus’ life, not to be cliche, but I can live out this jesus’ life in a real way as a normal person, as a person, people want to be around maybe.

Um, and I can, I can actually do this. It’s not just something that I. Experienced in youth camp and not just something that I have to do. Cause my parents say I have to be in church. It’s like no fast forward to a young adult, mid middle aged adult, whatever. Um, who is like, I dunno for the last while it’s just been feelings based and I’m not feeling it anymore.

Like it’s easy to not feel it. So when I say I’m glad you’re here and I’m glad you are kinda. I’m glad you’re here, man. Like I’m, I’m glad you’re digging in and, and learning what these Jesus rhythms are about in a different way. And to me, that’s like, I haven’t thought about how Jesus was great at creating a safe place for people to be.

Very much, but it’s awesome that he’s teaching you that so glad you’re here, man.

Josh: I think too, like I think a lot of Christians are there. Maybe they don’t realize it, but yeah, like I think this is one of the reasons you’re seeing the, the charismatic movement kind of explode right now is it’s it’s I need to feel Jesus.

Um, and I feel Jesus by worship, or I feel Jesus by, uh, The experiment, prayer. I feel like there’s all these different things that like, it’s feeding that feeling, being inside of it. Mmm. You know, I look at my own life and I’ve been right there, so I get how you can get there. Um, but being the depth of relationship when you live inside of a grace and truth and, um, There’s less like feelings for lack of a better term involved.

Um, like that’s where things start to get fun and real where you’re like, Oh yeah, like, sure. Life sucks right now. I feel that, uh, if it does it doesn’t for me right now, but if it did, uh, but at the same time, the depth of relationship and more importantly, better word is trust that I have with Jesus is the thing that kind of reignites and pushes me, uh, through hard seasons.

Yeah. Awesome, dude. That’s pretty exciting stuff to me. It’s moving. Yeah. Yeah. And I think all of us, you know, sometimes just a little bit in perspective, to be able to see those things, but he’s constantly speaking and he’s constantly teaching us. Um, there’s definitely depth of relationship and we choose to start trusting him rather than trying to perform for him.

Andrew: Yeah. I 100% agree. Um, I dunno, I, uh, one other thought that I, that I had, um, about this kind of discussion was that maybe like in our lives, there are. More macro themes of what God is teaching us. And there’s like small examples that pop up Monday, Wednesday, Saturday, you know, like in our day to day normal life experience.

I think there’s small stuff. Like the Psalm 33 thing that I talked about. That’s like, I don’t know if a month from now, I’m going to be thinking about Psalm 33 a lot, but this week I have been, you know, um, but in the last. Nine months to a year almost. I’ve been thinking a lot about like, I don’t hear God loudly speaking in my life, but I hear him.

I feel him to go back to what you were saying, Stuart, I feel, and I, I understand things more deeply about God these days, I guess. And maybe that’s cause like I’ve my. Patients stretched with a toddler and, uh, and feel responsibility and all these things. And I’m just, I’m learning the lessons that I’m learning, the things I already knew to be true, but per level in my life.

So I feel like in this season, God has just reteaching me or teaching me in a way I can hear a little bit better. Um, all the things that are. That I should already know. He’s just very kindly reteaching me these lessons deeper. Can you

Stewart: give us some example of that?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, um, when we talk about worship, um, there.

I think I talked about this on the podcast, but I was listening to a podcast and I was holding my daughter and then this podcast piano was being played and it was singing a pink Floyd song. Um, and the lyric was, so you think you can tell heaven from hell, um, blue star or blue skies from, from rain. Blah, blah, blah keeps going from there.

And that line of, so you think you can tell heaven from hell I was holding my daughter, I was outside. The breeze was blowing. It was like beautiful day. And, uh, and as I was hearing it, I was just looking around and I was worshiping God in, in my soul in a deeper way than I have. Then I have in a long time while.

Being in corporate worship. And maybe that was it because I haven’t necessarily in corporate worship for a while. Cause of Krone virus, all this craziness you’re living in. Um, but in that moment I was worshiping God in a, in a very. Real way in my mind and in my heart. And I was, uh, I was talking to him and I heard this pink florid lyric of, so you think you can tell heaven from hell and I was thinking about, you know, this, like you take the bite of an Apple Genesis one or two.

Um, and you’re going to have the knowledge of, of, uh, life and death, the knowledge of, um, Yes. Knowledge of good and evil. No, I was thinking about, sorry. I was thinking about that. So you think you can tell heaven from hell and I was just looking around and in that moment, my answer was absolutely like this moment, this moment is of heaven on earth.

You know, this moment is like, A moment in the kingdom of God, where I’m looking around and I’m seeing the beauty of all the things that God has created. I’m seeing the wonder of, of my, my child being just loving life, you know, and I’m listening to this podcast, listening to pink, Floyd lyric being played over piano and yeah.

And connecting with God in a unique way. So I learned a lesson about worship in a deeper way. In that moment of like, it doesn’t always have to be the, the words are on the screen and it’s this, it’s this one thing, but I was just worshiping in real time way. And I know that I already knew that, but, but that’s an example or it’s just like little stuff like that pops up often in my life, in the last nine months.

And I look back like later that day and I’m like, Whoa, that was, I knew that, but I know it better now. You know, so that’s the overall season, not men.

Josh: I think once you like it, it’s reading scripture and it having a deeper, more meaningful media meaning, um, of something we’ve read a thousand times. So let’s just use kind of the verses that, that Stuart use of John 15, which is, you know, you, if you remain in me and I in you you’ll bear much fruit and I’m going to prune away.

Like those verses, like, oftentimes I read those verses my performance, right? Cause if you love me, you’ll be commands. Yeah. And that’s how I always do it. So it’s just, it’s more of, if I do more good than I, the Jesus gonna love more and I’m remaining in the vine. Um, but now, now I read and I said, no, no remaining advisors relationship.

Like I’m going to dig into relationship with God. Just like I would dig into relationship with. With you or with Stewart, I’m like, this is I’m just going to dig into relationships. So I’m going to invest time here. I’m going to have conversation here. I’m going to be vulnerable and honest here, I’m in this place.

So I can expose myself to the creator of the universe and remain in him. And as that happens, as I remain at him and I start to see the fruit of that, yeah. You’re going to see less sin in my life. Um, No, I’m a new creation. That’s still sends and you’re going to continue to see that, but I’m going to continue to mature and things are going to start to make more sense, like remaining in him, isn’t about performance.

It’s about relationship. So if I do, like, there’s just those little things of like, um, versus what we’ve heard a thousand times that you’re like, Holy crap. That’s what Jesus meant by that. And there’s plenty verse there’s just one that kind of came to mind. Um, That if we really lean into these things, you’re like, Oh man, this is what, this is what Jesus meant by that.

Like there’s depth of this. And yeah, like we miss him all the time. It’s the same of the old covenant, right? Like Jesus goes to the religiously since it’s like, you missed the point. Like it wasn’t about that. It was about relationship. Uh, and you know, he cares to reexplain everything, uh, and they’ve kind of built their entire lives on these, these false narratives.

Cause we thought it was up to us and it has nothing to do with our performance.

Stewart: Hmm to kind of piggyback on that. I think Andrew, since you kind of took a moment on the podcast to explain what your hope is, Um, yeah, that the podcast would kind of be able to do for listeners. Uh, I dunno. I’m just, my brain has just been there going, wow.

There are, um, there are people on the other side of this conversation, and so I think it’s important for me. Yeah. To just say, you know, we’ve been talking about this faith versus performance and I think it’s so easy. To get hurt or to get cynical as a believer, we’ve all experienced that. And I don’t want to pretend like there aren’t barriers in the church to finding the gospel.

And I want people to be able to hear that the goodness and sweetness of Christ is worth pushing in just a little bit more.

Josh: Before.

Stewart: And if you have cynicism, um, pointed towards the performance, don’t point it towards the God who sent his son,

Josh: the man

Stewart: to give him why for you. Cause there’s nothing worth.

Being cynical about in that category. And just thinking about this concept, it really hit me, just this idea of like,

Josh: okay, you can be hurt,

Stewart: you can be confused. Um, and the, the good place to go to that is the safest place, which is the grace of Christ. And so even just how these verses become sweeter. Um, in some ways we’ve created, we’ve created

Andrew: barriers

Stewart: to the gospel.

Yeah. Um, and I’m still jumping over

Josh: the hurdle

Stewart: almost every day.

Andrew: And so don’t be

Stewart: afraid to, um, you know, if somebody looks at you and says, you know, the grace of Christ is great, but blink, um, you have the. The right and the privilege to look at them and go, that’s just not true. Um, and be respectful and lean into Christ, but, um,

Josh: insight and love.

Stewart: Yeah. And say it absolutely in love. And just, it’s just this idea that like, that person needs Jesus. So, um, it’s really easy to get beat up by the people who seem like they’re doing it better than you are. Yeah. But man,

Josh: those

Andrew: we’re all

Stewart: in the same boat. Christ didn’t come to save a group of people one way and another group of people another way.

Josh: Yeah.

Stewart: So I just think that’s great to mention.

Josh: Oh, that’s cute. That’s a really good, I think we definitely do dates those listening to hear, but we need to hear it as well. Um, it’s like, it gets so convoluted so quickly when we get hurt. Um, like we put that onto God or we put that on, uh, I’m never gonna open myself up again.

Um, and you’re going to get hurt. That’s just the reality of it. Living this Jesus life I’m living inside of the gospel. You’re going to get hurt. People are going to hurt you. Um, but it doesn’t mean we should stop doing it. And I think this is why Jesus, and, you know, even Paul and Peter and the epistles, like they talk so much about humanity.

This is why. It’s so important because he, you know, he wants and said, you’re going to hurt each other. It’s going to happen. Not, but you’ve got to commit to this thing. You’ve got to dig it like you’ve got upset or committed 100%. I’m all in. Even if I get hurt, I’m gonna keep going down this road of, of true relationship, a true love for one another, um, and dig into those things.

But now it’s a story that was really good. I’m going to start

Andrew: slowly now, Stuart, I, uh, Almost two men, a me did I almost into my,

Josh: to add to this.

Andrew: Dude. Okay. When you say, I say 2d booty, way more in this phase of my life than I ever have when Catherine has a super large loud fart and it’s just like, Oh, you got a Doody booty. Huh? And she laughs

Stewart: his booty back.

Josh: Let me shake my booty. Shake my moody bag.

Andrew: That’s awesome. Now, man. Yeah. Stuart, I’m encouraged just hearing you say that. Um, because yeah man, that’s my heart is I feel like there’s so many people who grew up in the church, uh, grew up. Uh, around the church, uh, or just even served in industry for awhile that, uh, that are now just really far from it and really burned by it.

And I just feel like we’re, we’re losing people left and right. That could be taken ground for the kingdom of God in really good ways. And in really normal ways in jobs, in finance and jobs, in hotels and jobs in airports. Whatever jobs that aren’t necessarily ministry. I feel like we have lost so many people, uh, that, that we’ve burned them out by the way that we, uh, believers have behaved inside of churches.

That, uh, that it hurts me. It makes me feel like if we just, why don’t we just try, why don’t we use our platform a little bit to try to encourage those who are at the edge of burnout. At the edge of saying like, I’m done with this thing, you know, I haven’t heard from God in months. Well, maybe you have, you probably have, maybe you just ignored it.

Maybe you didn’t know it was God talking in that moment. Um, so I just, I don’t know. I want to encourage people who are at the edge of just walking away to just give it a real shot and give Jesus a shot, because what you said about. God’s grace about the grace of Jesus, man. That is so true. And it’s so good.

And I need to hear that more often, you know, even though I’m, I’m living this Jesus life, I need to be reminded. So if nothing else, and I think this episode has achieved that for me.

Josh: That’s what we miss. I think that’s why we harm so many people in our wake is we don’t fully understand the grace that Jesus has shown us.

So we don’t show that grace to other people, like we’re really good at sticking to truth. Right. I’m really good at drawing a line in the sand, telling you when you sent it screwed up, but I’m not really good at loving you well inside of grace. Uh, so that just when I don’t, they just create shame, right.

That just creates more mass that people put on because now they don’t feel like they’re in a safe place. Going back to Stuart’s comment to be who they really are. Yeah, the good and the bad, the ugly and everything in between. But when we start to live in the grace that Jesus has shown us, the compassion comes out of me at such a high level for other people that when they sin, it’s not what the heck’s wrong with you it’s man.

I could be right there with you. How can I help carry this? How can we walk on this together? Um, and the same for me, right? Coming back, like when I’m living in the grace of Jesus shirt, me, I’m more open to people showing me grace as well when I’ve screwed up. So I can be my true self and be more honest with who I am.

Um, so others can, can experience Jesus’s grace. Right. Um, but yeah, no, this is a great conversation guys. I’m glad that we were able to do it. And at least for me in particular,

Stewart: yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, me too. And, uh, Stewart. It’s funny, Josh Yukon, Stewie. I always call you the, um, but, but, uh, I don’t know. I think we should make this happen again and, uh, doesn’t have to be next week or whatever.

I know. You’re just going to be traveling back home, but, um, I without asking Josh about it would love to invite you back into this,

Stewart: on the show soon.

Andrew: So I can’t say no. Exactly. That’s true.

Josh: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, you can edit it out if it’s bad

Stewart: to be really sweet.

Josh: Maybe then when we do this, we can all be in person sitting across the two from each other.

Stewart: I was going to say the next time we do this, we could all be in different States.

Josh: That’s an option too. I was just hoping to get face to face

Andrew: both. I want to, I want to do both, but, uh, but yeah, man, um, I don’t know. My, my parting thought here is, uh, is, um, I’m glad. We’re all back. Uh, we’ve we’ve all been in the church, uh, for a while.

We’ve all been trying to follow Jesus for a while and, uh, and I’m just glad we’re here. I’m glad we’re not somewhere else. Uh, in this moment, I’m glad that, uh, Josh and Stuart, you guys are here. Um, I’m glad I’m here and it’s, it’s not by Mo my own effort. It’s not by and white knuckling anything. And I don’t think either of you would say it is either.

Um, but it’s by. Just trying to show up and trying to understand the grace of God, trying to understand what it actually means to try to live like Jesus. And given myself a little bit of grace instead of just a just punishment. When I, when I don’t live up to the standard, I want to live up to. Um, so anyway, I’m glad we’re here.

This conversation has been great.

Josh: Yeah. Parting thoughts from my side. I think you listening are pretty darn good at the truth piece. I think, you know, what’s right. And you know, what’s wrong and you know, when you do wrong and you, when other people do wrong, I think it’s really important to focus on the grace piece since you got the truth piece down.

So well, so spend more time on that side. Yeah. And if it’s a balance for a season, I think that’s 100%. Okay. I think living inside the grace, that Jesus shown us, showing that same grace to those around us, having great compassion and love for, for ourselves and for, for others, um, is going to have a massive impact.

On how you view this life and how you function inside of this life. And I think you can generally find the John 10, 10 life, the life to the full.

Stewart: Um, my party it’s. So it would be that this episode was set up as a conversation, uh, with friends and man we’ve been totally encouraged by sitting here with the two of you and just talk about Christ. And so my encouragement to you guys would be, if you didn’t get anything out of us having a conversation, Please go have, have these conversations about Christ with other people who know and love Christ, um, to kind of get into the meadow a little bit.

We’ve done this. We’ve been blessed and we can tell God is here. Um, and this is part of how it happens. And so my party

Andrew: is

Stewart: get out there. If you have to make a podcast episode to do it and never released it or release it, it’s worth it.

Josh: Okay, that’s good. Hey, if you just call upon us, um, thank you so much for listening.

Subscribe to us. We’re on all the big platforms. If you have it, the platform we’re probably on it, it has the opportunity to rate us. Please rate us only if it’s going to be a five, if you think, or just right. Okay. Just one subscribe from us and never think about us again. That helps us. Yeah.

Stewart: You can rate it less if it’s because of the edit.

Sorry, I take that back. I’ll edit this

Josh: out. It’s like, Hey, we love you guys. We pray for you guys. Every time we go onto this show and we think about you guys always, but thank you so much for listening and as always my friends, it’s good to see you and Stewie. Thanks for coming on. Sorry to do work.

Andrew: It was good to see you both.

Thanks for doing this. This was awesome. We’ll do it again, maybe in different States and maybe in person as well. Thanks for listening people.