Episode No. 004
Shame sucks and most people have it and live in it, but you don’t have to. As a follower of Jesus you have access to freedom. Join Andrew and Josh as they talk about shame, grace, and finding freedom. Be sure to listen to the very end of this one (or just skip ahead), it is pure gold and very helpful.

Verses – Galatians 5:1-12.
Verses – Romans 8:1.
Article – Breaking the Power of Shame.
Sermon – You’re Not A Hostage Book – I Declare War.


Andrew: This is episode four. Shame. Shame on you. Do you ever feel shame? Why? When, how? Let’s talk about it.

Josh: Hello? Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal guys trying to live this Jesus laugh. My name’s Josh.

Andrew: Hey, Hey, Hey, my name’s Andrew and this is this Jesus’ life. Episode four. Hey, yo,

Josh: yo, how come

Andrew: dude? I just built a chicken coop and, uh, put the 17 chickens in and they discovered that outside is a thing. Their minds are blown.

I’m feeling happy. How are you doing?

Josh: I’m doing well. That’s, that’s pretty exciting stuff. Okay.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah dude. They’ve been chickens to the world. Like,

Andrew: dude, they literally were living in a box for like four weeks, five weeks, you know,

Josh: so a bigger box, cause I saw pictures on your Instagram or these chickens and they’re pretty big.

Andrew: It was not big enough. I mean, it was like, I dunno, maybe like two and a half, three feet wide by six feet long. But it was. Definitely not big enough. In the last day they were in there, they were like kind of fighting with each other a lot. They did not want to be in that box. They wouldn’t be, you know, outside.

And then I took them outside and they loved it.

Josh: Do you feel like a mother hen a little bit and you’re like trying to manage all of these children at once?

Andrew: Yeah, I do. I mean, I’m like, Hey, what’s up breakfast? How are you doing? Karen and Karen, Karen sucks, but. Breakfast,

Josh: no offense if your name’s Karen, but Karen is one of those names that you’re like, I don’t know.

Probably suck as a person,

Andrew: right? It’s not your fault. You’re bad. But, uh, yeah. Karen, I think leads the flock maybe, but she’s real aggressive, like comes in hot real quick. You know, I was trying to pick my fingers and toes, whatever,

Josh: Peck, other chickens,

Andrew: not that I’ve seen. How does

Josh: a chicken show dominance. I

Andrew: don’t know, but there’s literally a pecking order.

You know, like we use that expression a pecking order, but it’s like Karen Peck’s breakfast, breakfast, pecs, the next one.

Josh: Next. If you were like, you have more social status as a chicken, then you pick the person below you below. You

Andrew: know, you get pecked by the person above you. But what happens if your chickens blow you?

But if you’re at


Josh: top of the.

Andrew: Food. Anybody, dude, anybody pecks you and you just Peck them like crazy. And so some of the other hints like

Josh: cannot do is my dog. And then also people that I lead is I bite them in the ear to show dominance. Is that a part of. Being a chicken owner.

Andrew: Yeah. But chickens don’t have visible ears.

So what you do? No, I do know what I do is when Karen is being real be at me, I grabbed her and I pick her up. And it looked her in the face, and I go, Karen. And then it would just pet her until she comes down. And then I

Josh: said, anything that you’re going to say like shaker, which is reminded me of that commercial that was playing there for awhile, that don’t change.

Child abuse is never the answer.

Andrew: No, no, no. I don’t shake her, but I do pick her up and let her know, like, you can’t move like I got you. So that she knows like, Whoa. He is a strong God, but he’s benevolent.

Josh: He

Andrew: is always nice to me. You know,

Josh: I just grabbed my dog snack and I like stare him down in the eyes and would just be like, whatever you’re doing, you need to stop.

For example, I can’t keep my dog in my fricking yard lightly. That

Andrew: means like, do you have .

Josh: No, he’s usually out front, like he doesn’t go far, but he’s still leaving and I can’t figure out where the hole is. Uh, like I’ve gone around and around unless he’s like pulling the fence out, crawling under, and then pulling it back.

I’m not really sure I was good.

Andrew: Now he could be. Jack is crafty, like he does

Josh: not always climbing over it, which like my parents used to have a dog that climbed over a fence. Yeah. And he’s just like climbed like a human being like over a ladder, which is kinda nuts, but I don’t know. I think I’m going to go buy a GoPro really extra, some excuse to buy a GoPro to put on my dog.

Was he

Andrew: attached from the drone? And that’s

Josh: what I should do. I should just put my drone up,

Andrew: dude. You should know how long

Josh: you fly for like 45 minutes. And just tell her you should ask him

Andrew: if you just put it up a hundred feet. He will. He’d never know about it. Five minutes later. Yeah.

Josh: You still your daddy?

I’d have to find my drone though. It’s packed in storage somewhere. I’m well aware.

Andrew: Speaking of storage somewhere, um, ashame uh,

Josh: she’s ready. She’s ready for your segue.

Andrew: Shame, shame, shame on you. You know, Josh, I would like you to lead with your, like you talked about, like you were a real advocate of what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

So why don’t you just lead with that story

Josh: was, uh, I think that’s a great tagline

Andrew: until you went to Vegas. And then

Josh: until I went to make, I don’t think, no, I’ve been to Vegas as an adult. Um. It’s not as exciting as you think it is. Maybe it is if you get into all that stuff, but it’s just not me. My sister got married in Vegas.

That might’ve been the last time I’ve been to Vegas.

Andrew: Yeah. I was still totally joking about the whole Vegas thing cause it’s like, it’s like it was at one time.

Josh: There’s that one time when we went, we went to Vegas and then you got so wasted, you ended up on top of that hotel and we couldn’t find you. Oh.

And then we went. And then so-and-so, like lost a tooth and got married to some stripper. There was a crazy,

Andrew: Oh, you know what? That was just the movie, the hangover, um,

Josh: hanging. I thought that was

Andrew: us. You know, I don’t think I’ve ever been to Vegas, like, not even like stopping through, like on in the airport.

I’m never thinking,

Josh: I think Vegas is a place, it’s worth the trip at least once you do. Um, just to see it like, it’s. Ridiculously big.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s fair. No, I just thought of that because

Josh: it’s like they’re expensive. Yeah.

Andrew: I just thought of that cause it’s like, it’s kind of like a shame thing to begin with of like all of our country’s like, Hey, Hey, what happens there?

Stays there. Like, we don’t need to talk about that back in Wisconsin, you know? Or whatever. Like it’s kind of weird that there’s a city that’s like. Off limits almost.

Josh: Yeah. In chains of change is an interesting topic because I think it shows up in a lot of different forms. And I think, I think the enemy uses it to keep us from experiencing the freedom that we find in Jesus.

I think humans use it to try to control us, um, to keep us moving in the direction they want us to or, or whatever happens to be. I think there’s parts of shame that are. I don’t want to say they’re okay, but they’re, they’re natural, but it’s something we get to overcome as followers of Jesus. Like we don’t have to live in that shame.

Yeah. I think that you want to think, I think it’s helpful to differentiate between shame and guilt because I think you should see me guilty like when I sin against God or I sin against. People. I should feel guilty about those things. Like I should feel like I’ve done something wrong and I need to make a right, but I shouldn’t feel shame about those things.

Like, I think shame attacks your identity, so you’re a jerk. You’re an asshole. You’re always going to be this way. You can never get away from it, right? Like that’s attacking your identity, right? It’s putting a label on you where guilt is, Hey, you’ve done something wrong. Now. Make it right. Um, and as followers of Jesus, we should feel guilty when we sin for not feeling guilty when we sin.

Then probably pretty far down that road and scary territory. But, um, Hm. Yeah. But the beautiful thing about the gospel and about what Jesus did on the cross was when I feel guilty, I asked for forgiveness. And forgiveness is given. It’s not given with conditions. It’s not given. It’s just given. So done and over with her.

Um, you know, we see in scripture, you know, that God takes our transaction transit. Trans, our sin

Andrew: and sin as far as

Josh: the East is from the West, right? Like, it’s, it’s wiped clean. We’re washed white as snow. It’s done. It’s taken care of, and it’s no longer a defining feature of who we are. And that’s a hard piece to embrace, right?

Like from the sense of, I have to admit that I’ve done something wrong, not only to God, but those to those that I sinned against. Yeah. I in around us, um. Yeah. But yeah, I don’t know. It’s, it’s a crazy world we live in and shame is all around us. Um, and I think people use shame to try to control us, and I think that’s the piece.

As Christians, we need, like, that’s not okay.

Andrew: Yeah, I think, I think people use shame to try to control other people. And, and I say that like we’ve all seen a hundred movies maybe where at some point in the plot it’s like the mafia knows or your boss knows or whatever. Somebody knows that you have like.

Done something wrong or cheated, and then they use that as like leverage to get you to do something even crazier, you know, of like, Oh, I know you cheated on your taxes, so I’m gonna get you to do that, which is 10 times worse. You know, like, that’s the classic kind of, um. Plot line for a villain almost is like something you did was, was pretty bad, and then somebody knew about it, who was much worse and got you to do something way worse, you know?

Um, so there’s that. But, um, yeah, man, I don’t know. Shame is a tricky thing because it’s like. Like we see shame in the Bible in Genesis. Like first thing, like ver first couple chapters like Adam and Eve take a bite of the fruit, you know, the Apple as we always picture it. Um, and, and then, you know, next thing they know that they realize I’m naked.

You know, like I’m in there hiding from God. God’s like, why are you hiding? They’re like, cause. Cause I’m naked. God’s like, who told you you were naked? You know, like I know you ate the Apple. I know you did the thing, but why didn’t you just tell me? Yeah. Cause I ate the Apple. I ate the fruit. I did the thing you said I shouldn’t do, you know?

Yeah. And it’s like, shame kicks into the Bible immediately. So, um, we’ll,

Josh: shame says, shame says hide. Shame says, cover it up. Hide it. Um, keep her from, from view. Um, where I think as we live as followers of Jesus is you, we live inside of grace and grace says, own your sin. So like, you’ve done it, own it. Um, and then we get to move on from it.

Now, if you have people that aren’t letting you move on from it, like that’s on them. Doesn’t control you, like let them be them and you just move on. If you need to cut the relationship, cut the relationship. Um, but yeah, and, and this is the beautiful thing about sin in general, for sure. This is the beautiful thing about great, about sin in general is a much better way to say that.

Um. Is that when we own our sin and we bring our sin to light, like sin now loses its power. So all that shame that’s solely to hide this covered up. Don’t tell anyone about it. The second you let that out, as terrifying as that moment may be to confess, then I’m like, there’s a piece of that that just is freeing to it.

Like it’s out in the open now. So the same power it used to have over you. It doesn’t have the same power anymore.

Andrew: It’s gone. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I, I’m. My pastor brought up Galatians five one today, and it says, for freedom Christ to set us free stand firm, therefore, and do not submit to a yoke of slavery again.

Um, and that’s a kind of throwback to the rise up stand from situation that I talked about last episode. But more importantly, dude, can you imagine. If you were a slave. Um, like any context, not just here in America. Like, you know, anytime throughout history, if you were a slave and then you were freed from that, and not just free like somebody,

Josh: but

Andrew: somebody was like,

Josh: yeah, let me picture this so I’m your slave.

I’m picturing that I’m your slave, right? I picture you’re not a good slit slave owner. You’re not going to be using cruel, not physical, but like very emotional.

Andrew: But I pick you up and hold you and go Josh and it don’t shake you, but I don’t know

Josh: why, cause I’m confused. But all of a sudden you’re always picking me up and like staring me down.

I’m like, I didn’t do anything. I’m just sitting here just

Andrew: pecking me. Yeah,

Josh: yeah, yeah. And I feel like you probably don’t feed us that often.

Andrew: Dude, do you have a 10 pound container of food in there?

Josh: You just, it’s weird. It’s, it’s weird that me being your slave, I became one of your chickens as well, and it kind of, they coincide with each other.


Andrew: when we think about it though. The chickens kind of are. They kind of are my slaves, so I’ll treat

Josh: you just like you keep them to produce. And the SOC, they stopped producing. Just cut their heads off.

Andrew: They’re going to be done. So

Josh: I don’t want to be one of your slaves at this point. I’m pretty scared and terrified.


Andrew: would feed and water you. Well, that’s all I’m going to say. Okay. Um,

Josh: but now I’m finding freedom, right? To go along with the illustration a lot better. Not for what was just described to me. Somebody

Andrew: like a whole foods level customer comes in and buys you, you know,

Josh: super sweet. I’m like, your pet

Andrew: dude, premium price.

You are inside. Not like in the shed. You were like in your living room. Like you roam when you go up. It’s like, it’s like everybody that’s okay. That was just Josh. Like he’s, he’s part of the family essentially. Okay. Here’s where the crazy thing comes in. You are like, Hmm, I don’t know that I can make it.

I’m not sure I’m worth it. I’m not sure I should be in this family. I’m actually gonna go be a slave for somebody else, you know, and you like go back into that life. Um, and you live as a slave again at a check-in slave or, or a real slave, you know? Um, but the. The crazy part about Galatians five one is that like Christ saw us, um, in our slavery to sin.

He came in and was like, I’m going to free you. You know, I’m going to give you a path out of this. And then when you’re an active follower of Christ on a daily basis, you’re like, am I going to sell myself? Back into slavery, or am I going to take another step away from that? You know, like, so what do you mean then I think that’s where shame comes in though, is like, I’m going to step towards Christ.

I’m going to step further away from him. Um, I’m going to step more into righteousness, more into holiness. Through obedience or, um, or I’m going to step backwards and be like, no, that slave slave life was actually a lot easier cause there was less on my plate. You know, I could just do what I wanted, but at the same time you’re like, but I’m free, but I’m free.

But I’m free. And I think that’s where shame comes in. Um, in my mind is where you’re choosing bondage or you’re choosing sin when you know you’re free. Maybe that’s when shame comes in.

Josh: Well, the reality is that sin, CRE, like sin, grades bondage, whether you’re a follower of Jesus or not, sin creates bondage.

Um, it creates a life that is eventually going to lead to death. Um, that’s what, you know, scripture tells us that we see throughout the epistles we see throughout Jesus’ ministry. Um, but the, so the piece of it all is getting back to, um. The slavery pieces when I choose to sin against God and then I choose to stay inside of that sin, like God’s gonna let me make those decisions.

Um, it’s one of the things like, there’s oftentimes like Guidewire, why do you let me make these decisions? My life would be so much easier if you just did it for me and you just kept me away from my temptations and I didn’t have to deal with any of this stuff. But then you’re not in real relationship right now.

I’m not choosing God. God’s just dictating everything for me. But I live in a world and in God has created such a world that I get to choose certain things. So when I choose sin, like that’s taking me back to. Slavery. Now I’m holding onto this the sin that I’m constantly dealing with. Like I struggle with pornography from, you know, my early middle school, probably even before middle school, all the way through my early twenties.

Um, and it was that piece of like, here’s something that has a constant hold on me, um, that I can’t get away from, but I’m super secretive of it. I’m hiding it because I don’t want it out there because I’m ashamed of what, what I’m doing. Um, and so many times you’re like, God, why? Like, why don’t you just take this away from me?

Just don’t, you’re given any option, which would be fantastic and great, but at the same time, it’s not freedom. Like now I’m just being dictated or being a puppet of, of a grand master somewhere along the way. Yeah. Like there’s a choice in this, but there’s freedom when we bring it out. Like I remember the first time I ever confessed that sin to somebody.

Like I’m sitting outside, I’m with a friend at Starbucks and it probably took me 45 minutes, no joke for me to muster up enough courage to say, Hey, this is what’s going on. Like I started with like half to confess something to you,

Andrew: and

Josh: then I’ve spent 45

Andrew: minutes. Not saying of like

Josh: finally getting it out there, and that’s my pride.

That’s lack of humility. Like that’s all those things fighting in the way. But the second that’s out there, like now I’m able to actually conquer these things because the sin doesn’t have the same bondage on me that it used to because I’m now bringing it out there. But shame is going to hold me in that.

It’s going to keep me from ever experiencing that because nobody can know that I’m doing these things or nobody can know that I’m having these thoughts or nobody can know that. You know, last night I was. Like you, you at some point you’ve gotta be open and honest to let all that stuff out. Um, and I’m not saying like let it all out to the world.

One saying like, stand on the street corner or get on a stage or posted on your social media, hop on the

Andrew: podcast and share it

Josh: on a podcast and say, Hey, let me just, that’s the podcast we should have Andrea and right. We shouldn’t create another podcast on top of this podcast. And it’s just, just that.

Andrew: Here’s the worst thing.

Josh: No, no, no, not about us. We bring on other people to confess their

Andrew: sins.

Josh: Let’s call it the confessional. I’ll brand it tonight. It’ll be the new thing

Andrew: that would likely actually work, but no,

Josh: in my work, I’m not sure that we just like, don’t you want to live in freedom? Like that’s our selling point.

And, and use it as a manipulative, you know, tactical, like, don’t you want to live in freedom? Like you really believe who Jesus says you should get on our podcast and sharings. No. But find those people like we talked about this last week, funds people that love Jesus and love you in that order and confess those sins to another, right?

Sin loses its power when we bear one another sin and bear the burden of that, of, of those sins. Um, but

Andrew: yeah. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Speaking of shame and all of you said, or all of what you said was, was good, but one of the first times I felt shame in my life was I was six or seven years old. And um, and my sister I think turned 12 like, I think it was her birthday party when she was turning 12 maybe 13.

So. I’m six or seven, somewhere in between there. And um, Larner and her friends are like hanging out and I want to hang out with them, you know? And we had finished dinner and they were like doing the next thing for her birthday party. And I was probably like wanting attention cause I was the youngest child, you know?

So long story short. Uh, I kind of got kicked out of the party by my sister. Like, get outta here. You’re being littered. Cause I was

Josh: there and stepped in and they’re like, Adriana, get out.

Andrew: No, no. My parents were like, you know, like we have 10 kids in the house. Like it’s too much there. Yeah, they’re hiding at this point.

So my sister is basically like, dude, chill out, you know, um, in, in harsher terms, like you’re being deterred. Um, so, okay. Fast forward, I find myself. In the garage. Um, downstairs, like I left the party, I went downstairs. I was feeling really sad for myself and feeling like, Ugh, like this sucks. Like I got kicked out of the party when I didn’t.

I left the party. Um, and. So there’s a trash bag that looks like a nice seat. Um, and mind you, we’ve eaten shishkabobs for dinner. Um, and there’s a trash bag sitting right there in the middle of the floor. So what do I do? I walk over there with like slightly tiered filled eyes and I just sit straight down on that trash bag.

You know what happens? Shish kebab goes straight.

Josh: Like your books then your butthole? No,

Andrew: no, no. My butt cheek,

Josh: but

Andrew: probably an inch into my butt cheek like. Really, really in there.

Josh: Oh

Andrew: dude. So

Josh: now the person that probably ate that chicken shish kebab probably had COBIT. And then you’ve been spreading covert ever since,

Andrew: you know they did.

And yes, I know I’m, it’s my life’s work. So, um, no dude. So I jump up, I’m screaming, I’m like yelling. And at the same time I’m still like mad cause I was kicked out of the party. So then like. My parents or somebody shows up down there and was like, what happened? And I was like, I was sad when our sat on this trash bag and Oh, I’m like, I’m bleeding out of my butt now, you know?

And I felt shame on like multiple levels of like. I was ashamed that like they wanted to kick me out of the party. I perceived it that way. I was ashamed as sat on this stupid trash bag that I never said on trash bags,

Josh: you know? But thinking that you were trash, I’m trash as you sit with the trash.

Andrew: Yeah, I’ll sit on the trash bag.

Um. But, and then, uh, shish kebab, a wooden shish kebab goes just straight into my buttock. You know? So that’s been like a memory that’s just stuck with me of like, I felt shame and it resulted in feeling more shame cause I sat on a trash bag. So, so my, my

Josh: question is like, can you still eat shish kebabs?

Like his is such a, sorry, scarring, sorry. That when you see them, like all that emotion comes back.

Andrew: Dude for a while. I don’t think I did, but I gotta be honest. Like right now, if you were like, Andrew, it’s your birthday. What do you want to eat? I’m making the best thing possible. I’d probably be like, dude, make me some steak.

Shrimp and shish kabobs. Do it first thing. Not on the same secures cause of different cook times, but that’s fair. Mix it up. Do it right. You know? Interesting. Yeah. So

Josh: now you’re like looking straight at your shame and you’re like, I’m going to eat. You

Andrew: can’t eat that.

Josh: We’ve got nothing on me.

Andrew: Hey. Oh, but yeah, that’s a goofy story, but maybe it, I don’t know.

Maybe it matters. Maybe it’s just, but it’s,

Josh: it’s, it’s good in the sense, even if we go along the lines of, like, the silly illustration of your trash, go sit on the trash kind of thing. Yeah. Right. Like, yeah. But that’s like, that’s what people do all the time. Like, because you’re this, um, like there’s, I guess there’s a pathway that you live on, right?

So shame tells you to hide it. Um. But the second that you own it, shame, shame should no longer enter the equation, but people are going to shame you. Oh, you’re that guy. You did that. Or you’re that person and and, right. So you have to overcome those things. And then you have this, these senses or these feelings of inadequacy or insecurities that are kind of coming up.

So like, I’m not enough. I’m not good enough. I’m not smart enough. I’m stupid. I’m always going to be this. Whatever it happens to be there, you can put, put almost any blankets out of, I’m not. Blank enough right. And that’s where shame starts to attack you again. It’s the enemy kind of whispering in your ear over and over again of like, ah, nah, like you’re that sick of that dude, that thing.

Or Oh no, you’re, you’re that more on that did that thing, or, um, or it’s people doing the same thing and doing the enemy’s work saying those things to you. But the thing I think that people have to really grab hold to where we’re freedom is. Is is found, is when we choose to say, no, Jesus forgiven this.

Like it’s done. It’s over with. It’s taken care of. It’s washed from my record of sin, and I get to move forward. Um, and no matter what people say, or no matter what the enemy says, you just have to keep repeating that thing to you right. Like I, I’m the person that Jesus created me to be. I’m loved and deeply cared for.

Um, and those are the things that I hold on to because those things are true, whether I feel them or not. They’re true. Like we see them throughout scripture

Andrew: doodle. I think you are totally right. And, um, and just thinking back to your example of like looking at porn and feeling the shame surrounded that I haven’t looked at that at porn in a long time.

And I went through a similar. Process of like getting through that, getting out of it, the rise up stand firm. That was part of that story. Um, basically men, like, I think that’s something that’s very relatable, you know? I think that’s something that a lot of people struggle with in and male and female.

Like a lot of people struggle with that right now. Of. Porn where so much of that whole thing is feeling alone. Like I’m the only person looking at this, you know?

Josh: Like,

Andrew: I don’t want to tell anybody. I’m the only person looking at this dude. I heard a stat recently, I don’t know if this is totally right, but I heard that over 30% of all of the entire bandwidth of the internet is porn.

Josh: Like, like

Andrew: that’s like. Dude, a third of the servers are just porn,

Josh: especially in covert. Right. They have nothing else to do.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, but isn’t that wild? Just like a third of the internet is like a shame factory, you know? Cause like there’s not many people that own that. Positively like, dude, I just watched this porno.

It’s so awesome. Some of you

Josh: said, you’re like, I don’t even know. I don’t know. Cute.

Andrew: But when you’re, when you’re trying to follow Jesus, it’s like, hi. No, he’s not a fan of this. Like,

Josh: you know, I’ve, I’ve worked teenagers for a long time, so I’ve heard that that confession on a regular basis of, yeah, you know, I’ve been doing this and I kind of want to have the same response that my youth leader had.

When I told them that, I think it was called the ministry, like duh, like Kersey struggle with

Andrew: this. Yeah.

Josh: You and everybody else you’ve seen today.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You’re not alone, by the way. And I don’t say that to

Josh: downside anymore,

Andrew: but

Josh: yeah. I don’t say that to downsize the sin like it’s in, it’s extremely destructive.

Um, play in those

Andrew: people think they’re alone.

Josh: That’s the thing. The only one doing

Andrew: it. I think they’re the only one,

Josh: but that’s so many different things. We don’t have to like. Get into the pornography piece of it. It’s so many different pieces of like, only I’m thinking these things, and you’re like, no. Like you’re not the only one thinking these things are only, I’m the only one that gets this angry about this, or whatever.

Like, no, you’re not. But at some point, if you really want to. To find freedom. You’ve got to bring all those things out. You don’t find freedom like so many people you talk to that eventually get it, and it all comes out that, you know, we’ll go back to the porn thing, that they’re addicted pornography. Um, so often you hear this watch, I was going to take care of myself.

I was going to recover myself. I was gonna, I was gonna I was going to win this battle myself. And the reality is seen as really good at what it does and takes you to places you never thought you were going to go. I’m like the reality, like you think of the porn you were looking at when you were 11, 12 years old now, when I was 11, 12 years old, it was dial up internet.

So you’re like, well, okay, AOL, it’s all you’ve got mail and you’re like, now I’ve got porn. Um.

Andrew: Uh, I remember receiving free 30 minute, um, like 30 minute access passes discs by AOL in the mail

Josh: or your mom does on the phone and uh, yeah, like shoot up your connection or get off the phone. I need to make a phone call, dude.

Andrew: Crazy. Huh?

Josh: Yeah. You think you’ve got it hard today? You gen X or whatever comes after millennials, right? You’ve got

Andrew: nothing on the wifi. That’s not, you

Josh: have internet in your pocket. You’ve always had it.

Andrew: Oh, that’s

Josh: right. I used to have to log in to the internet. But even in those moments of like what you were looking at then compared to what you were looking at when you overcome or what you’re looking at now, um.

And how far you’ve come. You’re like, I never thought I’d be looking at rape pornography. I never thought that this is the thing that would get me off. But the reality was like you started with just looking at boobies and it progressed and sin sucked you in and enticed you with even more, and it takes you down these crazy roads and that’s what like, and then you start, then you’re in this shame cycle and you could just never get out of it at somebody.

You’ve got to put your, put your foot down, you have to stand firm and say, not enough is enough. Like I’ve got to bring all this up like I’ve got it. Let this out there. Yeah. Someone needs to know that this is what’s going on. Um, so I can start to, to essentially fight back against the shame and fight back against

Andrew: the sin.

Right. And dude, I think, uh, when I think about shame, um, I think your example is spot on, but the biggest piece of it is kinda that first step of, I’m in this alone. Like. Nobody else I know is struggling with this. And I say struggling, but I really mean nobody else I know is losing to this lbs I know is like jumping into porn the the moment that they’re alone, you know?

Um. How did

Josh: this become the port episode, Andrew?

Andrew: No, it’s not. It’s not. We’re going to talk about porn later, dude. No, I’m changing it. I’m thinking of birdie made off. You know, the guy that like did the whole Ponzi scheme thing, like

Josh: totally fell for it kind

Andrew: of thing. Yeah. No, no, no. Actually, no. I’m thinking of him like Bernie himself.

Like, dude, you imagine the moment. That he convinced his buddy, Josh, you know, his close friend to actually invest in, in BS, and he knew it was BS where you just gave me $10,000 and I’m like, I’m going to make you a millionaire. And then that night I had like, can’t sleep because I’m like, dude, I just stole Josh’s money.

I feel horrible about this, you know? But what’s the reaction. I’m not going to tell anybody. I’m going to tell everybody this is the best thing and you need to invest to that. You know, like maybe that’s not a perfect analogy, but I think it’s shame that drives that type of thing of like, yeah, I took, I took my, one of my best friend’s money.

And now I need to figure out how to get him to take some of his best friend’s bunny. You know, like how do I widen the net and spread it out so I don’t feel alone in this thing? Or how do I.

Josh: Well, it’s like what I

Andrew: did so, so nobody knows, you know?

Josh: And I think that’s essentially like piece, right? Yeah. And

Andrew: then eventually it’s like, this dude stole $400 billion and you know, he’s in jail and everybody else just lost money and

Josh: homes and retire.

Or you wonder like, and I don’t know that story as,

Andrew: I don’t know it super well

Josh: to be able to speak to it, but like. Say we give the guy the benefit of the doubt and at the get go he was just trying to invest people’s money and try to help make money. All of a sudden he started to lose a ton of money.

Yeah. And instead of coming clean about, Hey, this is what just went wrong, this is what just went bad. He said, no, I’m going to try to save it. My pride can’t take that. I can’t get out there and say, Hey world, I’m a failure. It’s gonna say, I’m gonna try to hide it. Um, so now I just need to get more people’s money so I can make up my friend’s money and make him the money.

And then it just. Grows and grows. It’s like that a kid’s story that you hear of like the monster, the lie monster that you know is all tiny. And then you know, you lie a little bit more and it gets bigger and bigger. And then you have to lie other lies to cover up other lies and you have to keep track of all these lies and all of a sudden you feel like you know your life is.

Is out of control and you don’t know how to stop it. Um, it’s that whole idea of like, it’s shame just trying to keep us and the like, and this is the beautiful thing about the gospel is like, we get to come clean and we get to find forgiveness and it’s done over with, like, that’s the beauty of it all.

Like the second we realized that piece of it is like, yeah, like if I just came clean about this, I just let this out. Um, it’s now forgiven. We get to move on. Um, and it doesn’t get to control me anymore. Like, I don’t have this secret in the, in the back of my mind at all times, wondering if they’re going to figure me out.

I just get to be me. It’s the same thing about your identity, right? I just get to be me. Like, I don’t have to worry about what you think of me or what you don’t think of me. I’m just going to be made and be the person that Jesus called me to be and try to live a life that gives him glory. Um, but if I just live inside that, then there’s freedom inside that.

I think this is where people really kind of getting in the freedom conversation. Back to Galatians five one. Yeah. Like, you know, Christ has given us. Freedom. I should know these first

Andrew: freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm.

Josh: It is four, four, not yet in crisis. Sentence is free

Andrew: and don’t submit again to the yoke of slavery.

Like stop it.

Josh: And it’s so many different parts of our life of like when you give lies. In general lies at the enemies speaking to you. When you give it ground, like you’re back in slavery. I’m now controlled by that image that, that the enemy has put on top of me, or that label is probably a better term that the enemy was put on top of me while I just get to say, no, that’s, that’s just not me.

That’s not who Jesus has said that I am. Um, so I get to live in a different level of freedom, um, that maybe I didn’t have before, before Jesus showed up. Um, but

Andrew: dude, what’s the. What’s sounds crazy, uh, what, I’m not trying to reinvent a or our last episode, but what’s the first step out of it? How does shame, like if you’re living in shame, what.

Porn, money addiction, I don’t know anything like awkward socially. If you’re living in shame, what’s the first step out of it? If you’re trying to follow Jesus, like how do you act? How do you react? How do you start to get out of it?

Josh: Um, it’s probably two things. I think, um. One of the identify what the shame is, right?

Like if it’s the shame of sin, your responses confess sin. Um, if it’s the shame of identity, however you’re being attacked in that way and just talk to somebody, but let it out. But either either responses, let it out, right? It’s either you’re confessing sin or it’s confessing thing, you know, lies that I’ve believed or whatever it is.

Like I think this is the biggest piece of, of Christian community that we mess. Um, because we’re so afraid of what they’re gonna think about me. We’re in and rightfully so. Like, let’s be honest, that the church has done a really poor job. Even just drawing, because. You’ve been, because you’re dealing with whatever and you kick them out.

Like, you know, maybe you’re dealing with depression and you can’t come out of that shame because I’m weak. I’m stupid. Why? Why would I fall for depression?

Andrew: Yeah. Everybody else is fine. Yeah.

Josh: So I can’t tell anyone about it like that. Shame like, you know. Doing what it’s done, what it does, but you got to bring it up and you gotta talk to somebody about it like you’ve, you’ve got to let it out like shame doesn’t find and to end, part of it is there’s humility inside of that.

There’s fear inside of that because you’re exposing yourself. Like going back to the vulnerability conversation from last week, I’m like, you’ve got to let those things out. You’ve got to have those conversations, find those field, love Jesus and love you, and then just kind of dump on them. Um, like we call it, you know, carrying one another’s burdens.

Like that’s part of Christian community and for whatever reason we don’t do it well, and I’m sorry if you can’t find that community around you, but start praying for that community to come around you and it’s not going to be perfect. It’s not going to be safe. I’ll be on it like it’s never going to feel like me confessing my sins to Andrew.

You want our meetings? Never feels great. It never feels like it’s

Andrew: never, I

Josh: never feel like Andrew’s gonna love me no matter what. Like those thoughts don’t come through my head. No. The thoughts that are running through your head is, and you’re gonna think I’m a freaking scumbag, or Angela to think that I’m an asshole, or Andrew thinks whatever age is going to think like those are the things that run through my head.

At some point, you just gotta take a risk. You just gotta take some risks and say, this is what’s going on. And then, you know. When shame starts to kind of fight, you know, lose its fight, you’re going to start to find some freedom because it’s just, this is who I am. I’m, this is what’s happened. I’ve been forgiven for it.

Now we get

Andrew: to move on. Okay. Something you said, this is what has happened and not just like happen to you. You know, maybe this is what I chose, but, but this is what did happen. You know, just telling the truth and then saying, this did happen. Yeah, I chose it. I made it happen. I covered it up, whatever. This is what happened.

Um, but this is not what needs to happen anymore. I can live in freedom. You know, it was for freedom that Christ set us free. You know, like there’s a lot of free and that it was for freedom that Christ set us free. Therefore. Don’t be a slave. Again, don’t submit to that. Again, you don’t have to, you don’t need to.

Nobody wants you to, you know, and if you muster up, I would say the courage, honestly, to confess that to somebody who loves Jesus and loves you. You don’t need to walk in that anywhere anymore. Like you’re a new creation. You know, like Christ, I say a new creation, but you are. Made new through graced. We are made new through Christ.

That, I don’t know, man. When when you confess it, it breaks the power of that sin and that shame that is just kind of the voices in your head. You know, just the constant, I’m bad, you’re bad. I’m bad here. But like it breaks that and it’s just like, no, this is what happened. Yep. Not what’s going to happen anymore.

Like this is a bond in my life that has just suffered. Why, you know, for Christ. Like because of Christ, he severed that bond, the Holy spirit cut it, whatever. I don’t know the theology on that, but the God kind of called me to the higher order and I’m going to follow that and, and there’s going to be another bond.

That’s the, that’s the kind of rough thing is you, you break one thing. You and I both stopped looking at porn a long time ago. Dude, there’s still, I caught you up a few weeks ago and had to confess to you and I felt nervous. Chashu is going to hate me and judge me and think I’m horrible.

Josh: I did things, but

Andrew: yeah, obviously did.

But, um, but there’s kind of, there’s, there’s new stuff, you know, it’s not just like, I’m done with that thing. Um, it’s like, I’m done with that and I’m struggling with something else, you know?

Josh: But it’s just, there’s, yeah, it’s a lifestyle of humility, right? Like, this will grace lives. It’s realizing that I’m not enough of my own.

Um, the beautiful thing is Jesus is, and I just got to lead inside of that. Like when shame shows up, it’s like, it says hide, right? And hide is hide is okay if you hide in the right places, like if you’re hiding inside of, um. Activity and you’re hiding inside of your mind. You’re hiding away from people.

Like that’s not good hiding, but we can hide inside of Jesus. Like the reality is if, if it’s sin that’s causing your shame, like Jesus already knows your sin, like, and not only that, despite your sin, Jesus still loves you. Like Romans. Romans tells us that, right? Like Paul tells us in Romans, like, um, you know, Jesus loved us so much that even when we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Like. In the midst of our sin. Jesus loved us. Yeah. Um, yeah. So like live inside of that run towards Jesus when when shame starts to show up conf like, the reality is if you’re not confessing your sins to Jesus before you’re confessing your sins to your, you know, those that love Jesus love you, like you’re not being forgiven for your sins because that person doesn’t have the power to do that.

Right? Like you’ve got to go to Jesus first. Yeah. And the beautiful thing is he’s going to love you no matter what. No matter how horrific your sin may be, no matter how bad, what you’ve, what you’ve done is like, Jesus still loves you because Jesus loves, has loved all creation in the midst of the ugliness of their sin.

And my guess is your sins, probably not as bad as some of the sin that’s out there, but it’s still sin. It’s still creates a separation between you and God. But Jesus loved you in the midst of that. Um, and knowing that like. No matter what you’ve done, um, Jesus is still is in. He’s never going to leave you like, it’s not this relationship of like, if I do enough bad things, Jesus is like, right.

I’m done with him. Like this is ridiculous. He keeps coming back to the same thing. No. Like the beautiful thing is Jesus forgiveness is, is freely there. If you choose to ask for the forgiveness, he gives it. He’s not going to go anywhere. He’s not. He’s not out. He’s, he’s right there alongside with you in the midst of your sin.

He’s alongside there with you. He doesn’t want to see you destroying your life the way that you are, but he’s right there with you just waiting for you to return. Right. Waiting. You should have turned back to him and heightened his place. Right? Yeah. Beautiful thing is, jeez, already taking care of your sin.

Yeah. Like what he did on the cross is more than powerful, more than, more than capable of covering anything and everything you’ve done.  and we’re going to do,

Andrew: no, I was just thinking that of like, uh, it’s often hard for me to imagine like  dude, it’s hard to imagine dying on the cross for anyone like, or dying in any way for anyone

Josh: could die in a nice way for somebody else and it’s still struggling with that one.

Andrew: I could be like, no, I’m going to sub him. Like, I know you’re about to die in a car wreck, but I’ll take your place. But dude, then fast forward and you’re like, no, I died in that car wreck in your place and you’re still being an idiot. You know? Like, dude, I wouldn’t feel much love on that of if you’re like driving way too fast and like not wearing a seatbelt or whatever, you know, like you’re still doing the things that led to that wreck, you know, to begin with.

Like, Hey. It’s kind of mind boggling to be like, yeah, Jesus saw you in that car wreck. Are you going way too fast? So are you not wearing a seatbelt belt? Not paying attention, whatever. Um, and then jumped into that, uh, took your place in the driver’s seat. Wow. You’re going way too fast with no seat belt on with the music up with all the wrong things, you know, not paying attention.

Took your place head on collision, and then, uh, fast forward 10 years and he sees you in that same position or worst one, and is still like, no, I want to take your place again. Hm. I want to be in that seat because I still care about you. You know, I still love you. I still died for you. Once I do it again, you know, it’s like, it’s all, and that’s like,

Josh: Oh, it’s so good though.

Like you think of you and Jesus tells, um, you know, how many times do you have to forgive your brother, you know, seven times, seven times, seven times, or, you know, it goes, and, um, you think of like. Yeah.

Andrew: Everybody knows how it goes, and we don’t have to quote it, but it’s like, it’s like, Oh, seven times I could, I could forgive somebody seven times.

Yeah. Could you, what about seven times? Seven

Josh: 77

Andrew: maybe. What about seven times seven? 10, seven times seven. Uh, just, okay, keep going. Sorry.

Josh: Go ahead. Put the beautiful thing is, that’s how Jesus forgives. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yes, we want to repent. We want to turn from our sin because our sins destructive. But if you have repetitive sin in your life, um, yeah, you want to overcome it, you want to get away from it.

Because until you do, you’re not gonna able to get to those next steps. Um, but every time you do it, Jesus forgives. Mm. Every time you do it and Jesus, and you ask, Hey, Jesus, like, here’s how I’ve sinned against you. This is what I’ve done. That was the opposite of what you told me to do. I’ve sinned. Please forgive me.

Jesus isn’t like, Josh, this is the hundredth time you’ve done this. You’ve asked for forgiveness a hundred times the ledger,

Andrew: or it’s

Josh: Josh, you, you’ve, you’ve asked 7,068 times like, enough is enough. Like figure it out, right? No, Jesus, you’re forgiven. My sacrifice on the cross is taken care of it like you’re 100% completely clean.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: Like that’s, that’s a crazy thought. Right? Right. Whoa, that’s, that’s a, that’s the kingdom shift, right. Where we look at life. And so that’s not how life works. Like you do something wrong. I don’t care if you ask for forgiveness, you’re going to pay the price buddy. No, Jesus forgives. And not only that, at times

Andrew: Jesus forgives

Josh: and you don’t have to deal with the consequences of that.

Not seeing it all the time. Most of the time you do do with consequences, right? But there’s times of Jesus not only forgives you, but it takes away the consequences. How mind boggling is that?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, that, well, that’s back to the thing of I, I’m not just saying, Hey, you’re forgiven. Like it’s cool. It’s settled.

It’s like. I think I referenced to this before, but the good Samaritan, not just, Hey, I took you to the doctor and you’re good. You’re cared for, but it’s like, I took you to the doctor, made sure you’re okay. Prepaid three months of treatment and told him, Hey, if it takes more time, just bill me. Here’s my home address.

Like, you know, as much time as is needed, take care of it. It’s like that over and above to where you wake up and you realize. Wow, dude. Like, no, I was, I was forgiven, but I was actually forgiven. No strings attached. Well, there’s strings attached maybe of going send no more, not, not even strings attached.

There’s expectation of, I want to lead you into the way that’s right. As Jesus, you know, he wants to lead us into the way that’s right. The God honoring way. And um, kind of plays out how to do that. But when you screw up again and again with the same thing, it is truly like. Welcome back. You know, welcome back.

Like I, I’m so glad you’re here. I’m glad I TAed for you for that, you know, because I see what you could be. I see the, the hands and feet of Jesus that you could be. If you submit to this, and if you screw up again, I’m going to be right there. You know? But, but don’t believe that shame. Don’t submit to that.

Josh: Like, you know, I don’t

Andrew: know, man. That’s the, that’s the tricky part of shame is it just snowballs into the why so quickly. And maybe we’ll talk about it again. Maybe we won’t. But, um, but I feel like the crappy part of shame, the reason it has hooks in it is like. You’re alone. Andrew, you’re alone. Josh.

You’re the only one mess, like struggling with that. You’re the only one. And in this pain, like I think that’s where shame just has deep hooks, I guess. Um, yeah.

Josh: Generally tell somebody in general, like the enemy wants to isolate you right. Like, cause there’s, there’s power in the community of Christ.

There’s power in the body of Christ. So what we call the church, um, not the organization, the people. Um, and some churches, some organization churches do it better than others in terms of actually forming the body. But, um, like there’s the beauty of. Uh, of people supporting you in, in, in this life of here’s my struggles and here’s the lies, and believing, here’s this shame that keeps kind of holding onto me to be able to open up and be honest about those things.

Like that’s real Christian community. Like that’s what we’re chasing it. And on the other side of that, it’s like, even though Andrew’s confessing to me the same sin for the 15th time, like, what’s my response? Is it like Andrew, like, dude, like, seriously, figure it out? Or is it Jesus’ response? Hey, Jesus, forgiven you.

Yeah. Cause the reality is like you’re probably sick of the sin is as is. I am hearing about it. Like you’re probably more sick of it, right? Because you’re

Andrew: like the 15th time, I’m telling you then I’ve thought about it 400 times, not told you 300 times, you know, whatever that,

Josh: yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like think of it from their perspective, like the level of shame that they may be battling.

Like show some compassion in the midst of it. Um, show some care that like, cause the reality is you can be there just as much as they are. Like it’s no different. I’m no better than you. The beautiful thing is Jesus is there for both of us and he’s creating us into the new creation that we are, um, for both of us.

Um, and it’s this pride thing on both sides of it. That’s pride. I don’t want to share or it’s pride that like. I’m better than you. So like, yeah, keep dealing with your crap, but like, I don’t deal with that crap or that’s not the world. Like, that’s

Andrew: not, that hasn’t chickens running around. Like, I know where my food is.

I know where my water is

Josh: and maybe my sins differently than your sin, but I guarantee you you’re my sins just as destructive as your son. Right, right. Unchecked.

Andrew: Yeah, man. Shame has. Deep hooks. Like it’s, it’s tough, you know? But it’s a tool of the enemy. It’s like, you know, it’s of this world. It’s not, it’s not a thing that’s of Jesus.

You know? Jesus never uses shame that I, I’ve read the Bible a couple of times and I’ve read all the stories of Jesus a bunch of times. I’ve never seen him use shame. So I’ve seen him use honesty, like talking to the Pharisees, like you all are a bunch of tombs. You’re dead on the inside and you’re whitewashed on the outside.

You look really pretty. You’re sarcophagus, you know, like you look beautiful and ornate and awesome on the outside, but do there are cockroaches eating a dead body on the inside. Like that’s bad. Like that’s nasty. Yeah. That’s the mummy on the inside. So let me, he uses honesty, but not, never shame. Never liked the arm twist of like, you’re really bad.

And I knew it, but, but you don’t want everybody else to know it, right? Yeah. Cause I could tell everybody, but no, never does. Never that. It’s just like, yeah, honesty. Never shame. Sorry. Are you going to say,

Josh: so let me ask you, this is in the world. Let’s say you’re sitting there, you’re listening to our podcast, you’re saying, yeah, like I’m living in shame.

I need to tell somebody about it. But when you look through your life, you’re not seeing followers of Jesus. You say it this way. You’re not seeing people that love Jesus, love you in that order to the extent that you would like. So now you’re like, now your excuses. Well, I, you know, I have no one to tell, so I’m just not going to tell anyone.

Like, that’s not my fault. Like, what’s your response to those guys? Or

Andrew: girls. Man, that’s tough. Um, first response is get to a place of honesty, uh, and tell Jesus in a really honest way. And for me, that’s never looked like going and finding a priest or, or even a pastor, honestly, sometimes maybe a pastor and in growing up, but.

Get to an honest place. Um, for me, that looks like literally kind of humbling myself, getting on my knees, you know, putting my head on the ground, getting on my knees alone in a quiet room, a separate place, not in front of people being like, Jesus. You already know this, and I know you then know this, but I’m going to tell you in detail of the thing I’m ashamed of because I need to get it off my chest with you to start with.

I need to confess this to you, and I need to, you kind of share the burden that it is on me to you, um, because you can take it and. And for me, when I walk into that kind of moment of confession. I need to feel kind of honest to the point of like, you might reject me because I feel bad about this, but I got to tell ya, because I think you can take it.

I believe you can take it. So I gotta tell ya, you know, start there. Start with like a confession that may look super different for you than for me. I don’t know. But I feel real humbled when I get on my knees and put my head on the ground and I can’t see what’s going on. And I’m just speaking. Honestly.

Um, so you start there and then, man, if, if you don’t have anybody who loves Jesus and loves you in that order, you can email us. But, but I’m not, that’s not a plug for this show. But if you seriously don’t feel like you have anybody, you can email us and let us know. How we can be praying for you or what we can say to your situation.

But, um, but even if you do that, pray that people physically would show up around you, that God would kind of show you like, Hey, Josh loves you. Whoever you’re Josh is, you know, um, this guy loves Jesus and loves you. You should talk to him, you should trust them. You should confess kind of in that, just as honest as you confess to me way, um, to them, to him, to her, whatever.

So that’s my, that’s my 2 cents. Um, I don’t have any notes on that. You threw that question out there honestly, but I don’t know, man, anything you would add or change to that? Cause I

Josh: just think

Andrew: like, confess to God real simply real honestly. And then. Pray to find somebody. And I think

Josh: you said it too, like confess in detail.

Like so often we like to confess it like, Hey God, forgive me for looking at that girl that way. No, no, no, no. What were you looking at? What were the thoughts going through your head? Like, you know, um, we hear whether it’s true and I’m not totally sure, but you know, there’s rumors that Martin Luther kind of the kind of started the Luther movement and, um, kind of shifted the, the evangelical church from the Catholic church.

Um, is, is, uh, said to say that he confessed for 24 hours straight on a regular basis, and you think like, well, like my confession is like. Maybe 30 seconds, like it’s super quick, but you start to think of it from their perspective of like, no, I’m going to, if I confess in detail, like here’s, here’s God, here’s the way that I want.

It creates a level of like, here’s the ugliness of my sin. This is the destruction of my sin. If I’m able to be open and honest about it and just let it all out, I think that’s a big thing. Um, and then the other part that you share, I think it was great to like you, if you email us, you can email us at hello it.

This Jesus’ life, podcast.com I’m sure.

Andrew: I don’t know how he does somebody in person.

Josh: Yeah, we’ll, we’ll try to get you connected to a church to find that community. But you know, the reality is, I think you’re probably around believers if you are a believer, right? And maybe they don’t love Jesus and love you to the extent you want them to, to be able to confess these things too.

But the reality is if you’re in a place where that’s not the culture, start the culture. Like be the first one, be the courageous one to say, this is what the Christian looks like. This is what Jesus said, said, confess our sins to one another and it loses its power. He said it so this may feel really weird to all of us, but like.

Here’s what’s going on in my life. And I need to tell you, because you’re followers of Jesus, and maybe you’re not great followers of Jesus, but you’re followers of Jesus. You’re the ones that are around me. So I’m going to confess these things to you, right? Be the courageous one and take that first step.

And maybe you, you create a culture and a community that didn’t exist before. Um, and this is the new normal where you really do carry one another’s burdens and support each other and hold each other accountable. But. Yeah, no, I think what you said it was great, dude.

Andrew: Thanks man. And Hey, let me just ask for reference.

I know we’re kind of close to time, but like. When you’ve confessed something to Jesus or to someone, especially to Jesus, like what is the, how did you feel like in that moment? Or what’s the kind of next five minutes or five days or five years, like where you’ve really said like, here’s the thing I’m ashamed of and I know I send in, take it from me, Jesus, you know?

And then maybe there’s some next steps of like. Talking with people, letting them know and making some changes in your life, you know, like how does that feel, man? Like what’s the immediate and the long term? I guess

Josh: it depends how I do it. Um, yeah. If I do it the super generic way of like, Hey, Jesus, I was angry.

I send this way. I looked at this girl this way. I’m super simple. We move on. Nothing changes. I don’t feel any different, but I think this is the part of the issue with our prior lives is we don’t have conversations with Jesus. We have like drive-bys and it’s like throwing pennies into a well kind of thing.

God orders. Yeah, right. That’s exactly it. But when those moments where I’m like, no, like. This is, this is kind of a big deal. Um, and when I go into detail of like, here’s how I sinned, Jesus in this specific situation, this is how it played out and this is how I sinned, and then it happened again in this situation or it, this is another sin and I need to go into detail of that when I go through that rock and roll, um, and I go into that detail like, that feels free.

Now you’re out of the end of it. You’re like, man, like. Now, Jesus don’t, not that he didn’t know, but now I know that he knew. Cause I told him like that whole,

Andrew: yeah, I offloaded it knowing he knew, but it’s still offloading. Yeah. That’s the

Josh: excuse to have like, well she has already know so I just have to like hit the high points.

But there’s something that does to your soul when you bare yourself in that way. Like when you expose yourself in that way. Yes. Jesus already knows what you’re going to say. Jesus knows this. He was present when he did it. Um, he knows when you’re in the midst of those things. Um, but when you go through that, that, that process, there’s something about that part of confession for your own soul of you really are letting go of the burdens of it.

Like I’m now putting them on Jesus who was on the cross. Not only that. I feel the gravity of that situation now in a deeper and more meaningful way that Jesus sacrifices and just to beliefs, you know, I carry, it’s, it’s an action that he did that drastically transformed my life. Not just in a moment of time, but constantly from here on out.

Like there’s a gravity inside of that. I think we miss, like prayer’s important in, in, and I know we live busy lives and it’s really easy just to kind of go through the motions of just having this conversation with a friend, uh, last week over, of course, you know, bourbon and cigars, cause

Andrew: that’s where all the conversations have

Josh: happened.

Um, and we got on this conversation of like prayer and what does it really mean? How is it? And I said, do you ever notice, I don’t pray for my meals. And he said, no, you don’t pray for me. It was what kind of freaking center are you joking. Good friend. Right? But I don’t pray for my meals and I don’t pray for my meals because I think it does more damage to our faith than good.

Um, because we’re not really praying to Jesus. We’re talking to the other people at the table. We’re not taking the time to really dive into of, of Jesus. I’m in deep relationship with you and I want to pray now, if you are. Then do it great. But I don’t like, I’m just trying to get to eating, so I just don’t do it because I think it devalues what a prayer life is supposed to be and the richness that it’s supposed to be and, and the conversation that it’s supposed to be.

And it’s the same thing when

Andrew: we’re

Josh: confessing sins to him. There’s a richness to it. When I dive into the ugliness of it and I recognize God, how I’ve, I’ve harmed you and I, I’ve, I’ve hurt you because of what I’ve done against you. And, and now I’m going to find. Full freedom because I’ve genuinely let it all out.

Yeah. Right. Like, that’s when I find freedom. And then you, you go to those around you and do the same thing. Um, I, I think both feel is scary at times. Um, in terms of exposing yourself. Um, I would say this, if you don’t feel like you’re exposing yourself, when you’re confessing your sins to God, you’re not doing it right.

Like, you’re not confessing enough. You’re not exposing it

Andrew: enough, a little bit nervous. Honestly going into it and during it a little bit nervous of like, I don’t want to say this next word, but everything within me needs to say this next word, you know? Yeah,

Josh: yeah. There was an ugliness on that, but like you said, Jesus can handle it.

Just know what it was when it happened, and not only that, he took that sin on himself and then he died for it.

Andrew: Dude, he better

Josh: be a body of the lit

Andrew: he’s not, or, or the things that were said about and the things that he said. Aren’t true, you know? But test him like test that. Can he handle my sin by looking at porn, my doing this, doing that, lying to this person, whatever.

Can he handle it? Dude, I feel like it’s been a, a warm embrace every time. You know? Not even physically necessarily, but just kind of that.

Josh: Yeah.

Andrew: Thank you. You know, like it, that’s, that’s kind of the sense I get back after after have really confessed. Something to him is just, it’s never like. You suck. Get out.

You know? It’s not that. It’s never that. It’s kind of the opposite and it’s awesome,

Josh: so that’s good. Yeah, dude, I really hope people make it this far in this episode like it was, it was okay up to this point, but man, like. This is solid gold that like if you choose to live this way, folks like this is life changing.

This is where you find freedom. Um, deliver this level of humility and exposure to your life, not only with others, but specifically with Jesus. Like this is where you find freedom.

Andrew: Yeah. Because it sucks. And then it’s awesome. Yeah, and then it sucks again because you find yourself in this, in I’ve, I’ve sinned in this different way and I’ve covered it up.

I’m ashamed of it. I’m probably the only one. Then you get to a point and you’re like, Jesus, you died for me, did all this stuff. I’m the only one. I already had all this other stuff, but I got to confess this thing and I don’t want to, and then you do, and it’s like. It’s like, yeah, I still love you. I’d still die for you today.

And I’m so glad you’re here. You know, let’s go to the next spot. Let’s go to the next spot. It’s just, it’s, it’s filled with grace and it’s good and it’s honest. So I hope they do. I hope somebody does, if they, if they care to. So,

Josh: yeah, man. Hey, that’s, that’s our episode, dude. We just talked about shame. I think a big one of us finding freedom and hope again in this world, but Hey, next week we, we, we’re going to tackle cursing right.

Yeah. What’s on the schedule? We’re going to talk all the bad words,

Andrew: all the bad. Oh man. All the bad words cover your ears because bad words coming back and come at you. I mean, will market your market? Is

Josh: it explicit? Sorry, we should

Andrew: we, that might get. That might

Josh: be the first time that a Jesus podcast has been marked as explicit,

Andrew: not getting exposed to it for sure in advance.

For sure.

Josh: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you’ve made it this far with us cause I think at the end of our conversation it got to real real. Um. Life changing information. I think Jesus was speaking, and I think he, that has the potential to really shift, um, your future and shifted towards freedom.

Um, um, Paul said to the Galatians, um, but Hey, thank you so much for listening. If you haven’t subscribed to us yet, it always helps us out just to get the word out of, of what, um, Jesus is doing here at this Jesus left podcast. But subscribe to us, um, rate us on, uh, all the platforms you can rate us, but wherever you listen to podcasts, Hey.

We’re probably there.

Andrew: Um, if you loved it, tell everybody if you hated it, tell us very quietly.

Josh: No, no, no, no. Tell everybody too.

Andrew: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, that’s true.

Josh: If you hated it or loved it,

Andrew: share

Josh: it all. I’m totally okay with you sharing it. You could say, these two guys are fricking morons. They’re the dumbest idiots I’ve ever, ever could.

But at some point they have to say our name,

Andrew: and then w. Like,

Josh: I’ll be honest, I’m on social media and you’re telling me how something, something so stupid. I might go listen to it cause I want to hear how stupid they’re. Hey Andrew, as always. It’s good to see my friend.

Andrew: Good to see you. Thanks for the awesome conversation. .