Josh: . Hello? Hello? Hello. We’re just two normal dudes. Try to live this Jesus life. My name’s Josh.

Andrew: Hey, my name’s Andrew. This is the Jesus life podcast, and this is actually our first episode ever, which. To me. I just want to say something crazy, but I’m not going to, cause it’s our first episode, like I might later in the episode, but right now, no.

Like I’m sticking to the script that doesn’t exist. I’m

Josh: sticking to like, yeah,

you want to not behave, but you’re trying to behave

well, obviously

Andrew: it’s like when you’re sitting in church and you’re just like, this is really funny because the preacher has a list, but.

Josh: It was be distracting. I’m not sure. I’m not sure I can handle that.

I’m not mature enough. Well, nine,

Andrew: 10 years old, you know, you’re seven

Josh: well over seven years old, and I don’t think I can handle it.

Andrew: Yeah. Obviously I said that to deflect. Uh, yeah, I heard that right now. I would be, let’s be, um, uh, this is the start. Of our podcast. So first of all, who are used slash like who are we and what’s your deal with Jesus?

Like when did you meet Jesus? What’s your obviously quick story, cause we’re not seven years old, we’re old farts at this point. What’s your story man?

Josh: Which is, it’s kind of weird, right? To think that we are old, like. Yeah. I don’t feel old. I don’t feel like an adult yet. I don’t know. But you start to think like how long it’s been since we’ve been in high school and we’re, we’re pretty old, dude.

Devil. Before we dive into that, let’s, let’s talk about this. Why this podcast, like why did we start it? Let’s start with you why we started it. Because. You approached me like I don’t know what, six months ago, and said, Hey, let’s do a podcast. And I just came out of a pretty unhealthy situation. I had no intention of doing a podcast, so I did absolutely not

Andrew: part of this answer for you.

I want to hear how did I convince you? It’s not even that I convinced you, but what changed? You know, what made you say, yes, let’s do it. Um, dude. Hi. I just, first of all, I love podcasts. I feel like they’re just an amazing way to fill your head and in your downtime with like incredible ideas. And, um, and I love listening to them.

I feel like it’s, it’s a chance to like listen in on conversations that matter or that could matter. Or even just ones that make you laugh. I don’t know. But it’s, it’s a chance to be. STEM where you want to be and you choose to want to be. Um, podcasts are, and I know that sounds like fru fru or whatever, but I just feel like they’re so far beyond the.

Like marketing brand or Coca Cola commercial or anything. They’re just real, you know, they’re just gritty. Like, this is a real conversation. And I think that, um, now more than ever, we just need authentic, real conversations. So this podcast for me. It’s not meant to like evangelize people necessarily to, uh, to trick anybody into following Jesus or to make anybody make a false confession.

Cause there’s people in the back road that you want to have, see you raise your hand. I follow Jesus today. It’s not that. And it’s like. I want to, I want to show, this is two dudes who love Jesus, care about one another. Um, in that order, talking about things that matter and things that don’t, I want to, I want to have just a, a kind of normal life conversation of like.

We love Jesus and, uh, and we want you to know what that looks like day to day. Cause it’s in the day to day stuff that you choose to follow Jesus or you don’t. So I don’t know, man, that I want a lot of places in that. But that’s, that’s my hope is that this could be a demonstration of what, at least our lives look like in that way.

Josh: No, that’s good.

I’m trying to think, like what changed my mind. I’ll come back to that. Um, I think for me it’s just this idea of, um, when I look at Christian friends and I look at Christians that I know, um. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of hope. It doesn’t seem a lot of joy, excitement for living this Christian life.

Um, oftentimes it feels like a beat down and a chore and sure, there’s aspects to the faith that play into that. But, um, it’s getting people back to like, man, it’s exciting to follow Jesus. Like, what, what, what could we accomplish and where could he take you? And that excitement just building up in sign of people.

Like, I’d love to help them get back there. And I think that’s where the podcast is for me, is can we help people just normal people like you and made to do this? Like I think, I don’t know, there’s so many different versions of Christianity out there and there’s these, there’s this, you know, side of hyper spiritualized Christianity where everything in the smallest of details has meeting that applies to you directly.

Um. And then the other side is this legalistic side of Christianity, that it’s a list of do’s and don’ts. And I have to do the right thing to please God. And I’m not recognizing that Jesus loves me because of who he is, not because of who I am.

Andrew: Thinking about what grace actually is.

Josh: Right? Like what do they actually die for?

Like what, what did he really give you? Um, so yeah, I think it’s hopefully presenting a different. Do you, or a different, whatever the word is. Um, rather than, you know, what, maybe the stereotypical Christian looks like. Yeah. It comes down to like, you know, right before we started this podcast and I dropped my water bottle and I said a curse word.

Um, it’s like one of those things, right? Like it’s life. It is what it is. I’m not going to hell because I just said a curse word.

Andrew: Dude every

Josh: get in my views, my theology on curse words though, either we’ll wait for a future podcast for that.

Andrew: We’ll talk about that at some point, obviously. But what I want to tell you is that my, uh, 19 month old daughter, every night during bath,

Josh: she’s 19 months old.

That’s crazy.

Andrew: It is insane. She’s speaking and coherently, but at bath time, which is after dinner for night cause she loves baths. Um. I say, what kind of music do you want? And half the time she says Jesus and the other half, half, she says bluegrass, which is, yeah, which is the Avett brothers or old Crow medicine show.

I know I’m from

Josh: Ohio

Andrew: and you’re just like, dude, that is so hick. But one. One line of the aver brothers that, uh, I’ve always loved and I think you would resonate with is that, uh, during one of their songs it says, um, Jesus, sometimes I use curse words when I pray and I’m just like, Oh, that’s fair dude. In the last 48 hours I’ve been there, man, I’ve been, um.

I feel like God’s been been just doing a lot in my life in the last couple of days. And, uh, I don’t know. Sometimes I,

Josh: you see, like, it really comes down to like, are you really praying if you’re not cursing? Like that’s the real question, right? Just kidding. Yeah, we won’t go that far.

Andrew: Well, no. Well, if you’re not.

If you’re not speaking with the same, um, like when I curse, I never, I never do that casually. Maybe, maybe for a joke. And I say curse when I use a potty word, you know, as, as our society calls it. Cause I think a curse word is like a curse, you know? But when I, when I use a potty word, um, I do that with emotion.

Maybe I’m trying to make somebody laugh. Maybe I’m just really mad. Maybe I hit my finger with the literal hammer, you know? But there’s something behind it. It’s not just like a, I’m throwing this out for no reason. And, uh, I feel like that’s, that’s the nature of prayer is like if you are having a real conversation and you’re really talking, there’s something behind it.

No, you’re not just like, Hey, how you doing,

Josh: Josh?

Andrew: What’s going on?

Josh: Well, there’s a, there’s a realness in Iran this, right? Like, yeah. Typically curse words, unless they’re a part of your just normal language. Um, which there are some curse words that are permanent, normal language. Um, they’re coming from a place of rawness.

It’s frustration or anger, excitement or happiness. Right? Um, and like if you’re not having those kinds of conversations with God, man, you’re missing out.

Andrew: How old are they? I mean, cause that’s where he meets you is like where you actually have. Need like Jesus, this has been a horrible day, and as I look at it, the entire reason it’s been horrible is because of me.

Josh: That’s fair.

Andrew: Can we talk about that? Even though I don’t want to talk about that,

Josh: like that, those prayers are actually easier for me. Then the prayers of God, this is a horrible day, but it’s your people that made it horrible. That’s all. Do something about it.

Andrew: That’s funny. That’s only because you have been a pastor for a lot of time.

Um, and I, I’ve only been in like a lot of volunteer leadership roles of church and stuff. So do you. Before we keep going down this good rabbit hole. Who are you? Uh, why are you doing this?

Josh: Who am I now? You said what you wanted

Andrew: to become,

Josh: but

Andrew: what are you, yeah. What do you hope for it? Who are you.

Josh: I’m Josh.

It’s good to meet you Andrew, for the first time. Just kidding. We’ve known each other for eight years. I think. Something like that

Andrew: ad agency called us

Josh: and put us together. They said, Hey, you YouTube. It works so

Andrew: well. No, eight years. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. I’ve been in ministry since 2004 with a hiatus in the middle of it, um, to go work for the way the real world as pastors like to call it.

Um. Grew up in a Christian home, gave my life to Jesus going into seventh grade, as far as I can remember. That’s the first time I ever remember hearing the gospel. Um, now is the hellfire and brimstone means style of gospel, right? Avoid hell rather than you come to repentance. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, but spent most of my life in youth group and, um, you know, it was your typical youth group kid that was open every time or was there every time the church doors were open.

And, um, you know, most of my friends that I spent majority of my time with were from the church. Um, then I got right into ministry and, um, you know, out of high school. And, um. I have found myself in a place where everybody that I knew and I interacted with regularly were Christians and kind of got dissatisfied with that version of church.

Um, is this all it is? And kind of Jesus took me on a. For four and a half year journey, uh, trying, you know, trying to teach me what it meant to really love God and love people. Um, so I went to go work for a different couple of different companies that held very different views and moral standards than I did and learned what it meant to be a friends with, with non-Christians, those that don’t believe what I believe, um, and love them well and care for them.

And it’s still a journey. Um, it’s a journey that’s not over. I don’t love people and love God perfectly, or even well at times, but, uh, that’s kind of the journey. And, uh, God brought me out to Colorado and, uh, I’ve been here for eight years. Uh, I guess a little, little over eight years, maybe, maybe not quite eight years yet.

I can’t remember when I moved here. I mean, that’s,

Andrew: that’s where you and I met like four weeks has been. Like at least a year. Nobody knows what time it is.

Josh: Yeah, but it’s true. I forgot what day it was today. Yeah. And I even like went to church online and I forgot what day it was today. Yeah. There’s,

Andrew: there’s literally any day right now.

I do forever from

Josh: visit so many churches to go to

Andrew: any church across the U S forever

Josh: on churches that like. You know, my first ministry job, um, as a junior high director, uh, and that church has never broadcast their services before, and now they’re broadcasting because of Corona. So I get to kind of see what’s going on and at least get a small peek into their church life again.

Um, but yeah, so we met because I came out here and we met at the same church, and you know, you and I have been doing life together for a while and been accountability partners for. Year and a half, two years, something like that, dude,

Andrew: at least a couple of years. Yeah, so it’s solid friends

for

Josh: sure. Yeah, so it’s kind of bringing the audience or people that are listening into our time, our conversations, maybe not to the RA.

You know, truth side, at least not at first. We got to get to know these people before

Andrew: we’re both eight.

Josh: We gotta we gotta build that trust before I, I’m vulnerable and open up, but we’ll get there. Um, but yeah, that’s kinda my story. And, um, you know, still learning what it means to love God and love people.

Well, uh. And I just hit my chair. We’re on zoom right now, so you can see me. Do you seem to just drop

Andrew: like a fan, but nobody else, nobody else can see you on these first few episodes. So it’s just,

Josh: you know, playing with buttons on the bottom of my chair and I just have the foot.

Andrew: That’s the thing behind work meetings that nobody knows is like, that happens on camera or on conference call, but it’s all fun.

Zoom right now, more than anybody wants to admit for sure. Yeah. One time before I go. One time before I answered the official question. One time I was talking to the dude, and fortunately it was a one on one meeting and uh, I was on a wooden chair. We had just moved to Pennsylvania. We were living at Janice parent’s house and I, my chair split into.

As I was talking with headphones in

Josh: like, but till the ground

Andrew: dude, but to the ground faster than I imagined. There was no warning.

Josh: That’s funny.

Andrew: I did do. The fun part was suddenly I went from this view of zoom to only the very top of my head, which

dude on my headphones stayed in the entire time. So he heard,

and then I stood up and was like. Dude, my chair literally was broke.

Josh: I’m sorry. And I think it was

Andrew: right after new year’s, and I said something about like, maybe I need to start like dieting, you know, or something

Josh: like that. But it was funny.

Andrew: Ridiculous. So that’s,

Josh: it happens. What’s, what’s your story, Andrew?

Andrew: Yeah. Well, um. Pen. You did it so, so eloquent, eloquently and quickly. Um, but I,

Josh: we’re friends because you just prompt me up and kiss my butt constantly. Makes me feel good. Right?

Andrew: Yeah. That’s what I’m here for. Me. Um, no. Uh, I grew up in Southeastern Ohio and, um, I grew up in this like. Pretty hick town, um, but middle-class in it.

And, uh, all my best friends were like farmers and just salt of the earth kind of people. And I grew up in a head, uh, church that preached the gospel a lot. And, um, but kind of did it on this side of heaven, like, kinda like, you know, you get saved. To become a Christian, and here’s how to like, uh, bring others into Christianity through argument, you know?

Um, but even at that, like, man, my, my parents, they’re still together. They’re, they raised all three of us kids. And, uh. They’re great people. They love Jesus, and they’ve loved us, and they, um, brought us up. Well, I would think, uh, I think, um, so anyway, um, they, as a result of, of their up bringing and being a part of the church, um, I remember praying for the first time to accept Christ when I was seven years old.

Um, and I was in the bathtub and I was like. I want to pray to receive Jesus. That thing we talked about, I don’t remember if it was on a Sunday or a couple days later or when, but I remember thinking about like the church service, I want to receive Jesus, you know, and it

Josh: felt like some of your best thinking in the bathroom and the shower.

Andrew: Totally showers. Slash. Bathtub. I needed to get a whiteboard in the shower cause that actually is like. Half the time. I think of really good things in the shower, and then I can’t put them back together

Josh: the same way. Just yell to your wife, honey, write this down.

Andrew: Totally. I’ll try that next time. We’ll see.

Um, Jen is super submissive. No. So, uh, so that probably won’t work out at all, but anyway, man, from there, um, I like. I got really good, like in mid high school, uh, at going to church and being like, um, somebody in the youth group that my pastor looked at as a leader. Um, but also like on the soccer field and track course, I guess.

Rink, I don’t know, the rate track field, um, whatever

Josh: track is what’s called. Yeah.

Andrew: On track,

Josh: on the track track,

Andrew: on the track, I got good at being a jock. That was pretty popular as well. So it was like going to parties all the time. And then on Wednesdays and Sundays going to youth functions and I just have like two pretty isolated groups of friends.

And, um. And man, I lived that way through the end of high school where it was like, I, as I got older and older, like it, it ate at me, man. Like I did not like it. So, um. I went when I was 18, I fully intended on going to a college, Oh, you Athens, which is like a huge school number. Then it was the number one or two party school in the nation.

And I was like, I’m going to go there and just have a good time. And my parents, um, who pray for me every day and have for as long probably as I’ve been alive. Um. We’re like, Hey, we’re not going to help you financially if you go to OU, Athens. Um, they might’ve said that. They might’ve never said that, but they’re like, just go at least check out a Christian university, you know?

So I went to one, and, um, it was the first time in my life. Where I felt God’s directive call on my life of like, you have to go here. If you don’t, you were in the wrong, you know, like just, just really kind, but really, really clear. You have to, or. You’re in the wrong. Um, so anyway, I went there and like, dude, midyear in my freshman year, um, I was looking around and I was like, everybody here is a liar.

Like they, not everybody, but so many people here are just like filled with joy, you know, or like. They seem like your pointy toy, like everything is great. This is the best. Like that’s for no, like they seem too good to be true essentially. And as I look back on it, dude, that was just me, uh, being like, seeing through my lens of like, I’m too, I’m living two lives and, um, towards the middle of freshman year before Christmas break.

I remember praying a prayer of, God, I want to be fully for you. Um, or I don’t ever want to pretend like I am.

Josh: Let’s go do

Andrew: something for, you know, and well, it’s like, it’s an ultimatum, which I wouldn’t like encourage somebody to do necessarily. Um. Unless it’s honest, I suppose,

Josh: but I made deals with God my entire childhood.

I played, I played hockey growing up and I was a goalie and like if I was having a bad game, it’d be like, God, I’ll be the best Christian in the entire world moving forward if you let me win this game, I’m not sure I ever worked.

Andrew: Yeah. If she couldn’t let me make the saves, I will be.

Josh: I will, I will stop doing all the bad things.

Yeah.

Andrew: Quit it all, man.

Josh: No, I just,

Andrew: yeah, that’s awesome. No, man, it was, it was funny. I woke up the next morning and you know, cause it said that, that ultimatum late at night as I assume you stay any series ultimatum, um. It’s late at night, you know, and then you go to bed or you stay up all night. I went to bed and, uh, dude, I just woke up with this like, um, I don’t know.

It was answered, uh, in my soul, even though not like in words, it was just like. Yes, I’m real before me, you know, there were no audible words. There may be a drink stuff all night. That was like awesome. I don’t know, maybe I’ll see it one day and have been, but um, but I woke up just like stubbornly, stubbornly con sure are convicted.

Sure. That like God was real. And that, uh, it was the God of the Bible and that I should live for him, you know, so I’m not perfect. I’m super far from perfect. I messed up in big ways that I’ve called you recently about, you know, talk every week and it’s like, there’s some stuff wrong with me, um, but just called you the other day.

And, um, there’s some of that, so not perfect. And I don’t think that’s the way Jesus necessarily intended it. But. Um, since that day, which was just before Christmas break, 2008, just before 2009. Um, I’ve been trying and I’ve been, I’ve been trying to live a God love and life and, uh, and the life that looks maybe more like Jesus over time.

Um, for sure. So

Josh: how’s that been different for you. Like living this life compared to living the life you live before that decision or that moment?

Andrew: Man. Um, as I think back about it, like the thing that killed me about that was I was focused on like, what would my parents think if they knew the truth, uh, versus the truth.

You know, what my life looked like, so I had to, I feel like. All these things in balance, and I had to remember a lot of stuff. Um, that, I don’t know, I just had to maintain a lot of lives and I think it’s been freeing in a lot of ways, tack like an understanding of who Jesus is. Um, but at the same time, it’s been, um.

Yeah, it’s you get to know Jesus and you get to understand his standards. And, uh, there’s always an upward call, you know, there’s always like, uh, okay, I got through this day or week or month, and then you look back at it and like, man, in my best effort, maybe, maybe I’m at like 70% of where it should have been.

But then when you know Jesus, you understand like you’re obviously never 100% perfect if you were, you don’t need him. But when you know him, you understand that grace where it reminds

Josh: me of, um, the office episode with, um, Pam’s mom or Pam’s grandma. Uh, I think it’s at the wedding, and they’re talking about being perfect.

And she’s like, if perfection wasn’t an option, I wouldn’t live.

Andrew: Yeah. As PM’s pregnant and like doing shotgun wedding, just secretly for grandma or Nana or whatever she called put at you. Oh, yeah, yeah. But yeah, man, it’s, it’s that, except, uh, except the grace-filled version. So I don’t know. I just feel like there’s always a next step, and I think that.

As exciting as as heaven will be one day. Um, I think that Jesus lived for the here and now, you know, like, I think his teachings were for today and tomorrow and the next day. So I guess that’s the cool thing is it’s not, it’s not dead, you know? Um, yeah. Anyway, aside from my, uh. It testimony like I, um, the only way I’ve ever been paid by church was for to run the coffee shop.

Um, you know, I’ve never been a pastor. Um, I’ve always been a leader probably cause I’m an Enneagram eight, you know, so people are just like, that guy has a plan. You got some serious opinions about.

Josh: It’s funny when you say that you’re an eight, oftentimes I think you’re lying to me. Um, mainly because I don’t like any eights.

All the needs that I know. I’d rather not spend any time with them. I like to spend time with,

Andrew: I think I hang out in

Josh: my mind boggling to me

Andrew: most of the time, but under stress, I’m just like, no. Yes, no, yes, no, never. I just move. I don’t know. That wasn’t a great example, but I moved very directive, you know, eight, but I like hanging out with you too, even though.

It’s kind of hard for me to believe urinate as well. Um, but anyway, more than that,

Josh: maybe we both misrepresented their numbers and we’re still trying to figure it out, which I think is the Enneagram is,

Andrew: yeah, for sure. So, dude, um, anyway, um, this, this sounds, uh, a little bit goofy, but I have a question. For you in this time.

Um, like with coronavirus

Josh: going to propose to me,

Andrew: I was deciding which question to ask, um, with coronavirus like full board going and like, I guess some States are opening a little bit, but it’s been a weird season of lockdown and we’re still kind of in it. Um. What’s the funniest thing about it?

Josh: What’s the funniest thing about it?

Uh,

I have no idea. I’m not sure there is any funny things about it. At least not, that’s happened to me. Now.

Andrew: Well, I have, I have a thing that I think is funny now. You’re just saying like, you’re taking the high road.

Josh: No, no, no, no. I’m not taking the high road. Like, this is a serious situation. We can’t joke about it.

I’m just like generally thinking, no, most of this has just been boring. I can’t think of anything that’s been fun or even in like funny. Um. Like it’s those probably the funniest moments are like when you’re meeting with your team, um, and like, there’s this outbursts of just like frustration, like not because you’re angry at what we’re talking, usually you’re not talking about anything of importance.

Um, but it’s just like these moments of like, people are just like, I’m so sick of being home and not being around people and I’m just to take it out on all of you right now. That’s, that’s probably the one time that I’d be like, that’s pretty funny. Other than that, just. Usually pretty mundane and boring, like I can’t wait.

I didn’t realize how much of an extrovert I was until going into of, we were like, I need to be around people.

Andrew: That’s fair. Man, your example is, is good and so relatable to so many. Um, the thing that I think is funny about it, which, let me preface this with, there’s a lot of very unfunny stuff about it. Um, where at what, like May 3rd right now when we’re doing this first episode.

May 3rd 20, 20. So we’re in the thick of it, but, and I know it’s getting more and more intense across the developing world. Like there’s a lot of very not funny stuff happening, um, or international nonprofit. And I get like 40 disaster, uh, emails a day with specifics of what’s going on. And it’s rough. So the funniest part to me of this entire thing is that America’s first response to major pandemic on the way was, I have to buy 90 rolls of toilet paper immediately because like, dude, I think that shows something like everybody’s

Josh: like, what started it?

Andrew: Dude?

Josh: Maybe they’re like the last, maybe the last time I had the flu it was I needed a lot of toilet paper, so that’s why they weren’t, I got toilet paper. Like, I wonder if we could go back to like that moment in time where like it shifted. Like people bought the toilet paper. New, started to report on it and now it became a thing.

Like everyone has

Andrew: everyone who in fifth, sixth, seventh or eighth grade had a pants pooping moment. Um, they thought to themselves, yeah, everybody at once who pooped their pants and fifth, sixth, seventh or eighth grade, like the middle school, prime years. I wasn’t one of them. I just call

Josh: my next question.

Yeah, super curious.

Andrew: I didn’t do that, but I think everybody you did is just like get 200 roles right now. I wouldn’t have ever, I wouldn’t ever have to deal with that again. Um, if I got to go, I need to know my toilet paper is solid for this occasion. Um, just to find

Josh: that as one of those, like. It’s going to be like, it’ll be years from now.

It’s like for, um, um, nine, 11, not nine, 11, sorry. For the millennium. We went 2000 rolled around. Um, like my stepdad, my TK, yes, that’s the word. Um, it’s been awhile. Um. My, uh, my stepdad bought like tons of gasoline for this generator that could power our entire block. And um, it’s going to be like that where like it’s years later and you have all these toilet paper rolls and you’re like, what am I going to do with them?

Like I guess we’re just regular handing them out as like birthday and Christmas presents just to get rid of this stockpile of toilet paper.

Andrew: That paper roll will forever be an icon out of this thing. Yeah, well for sure. Yeah. What do you think? What do you, Jesus, it’s like saying I’m in this time, like I know that toilet paper thing was dumb, but it is kind of funny.

But like, what’s he saying? Either I don’t know, to you or do you have any idea what he might be saying to like. Wider, no people’s, you know, like

Josh: that’s way above my pay grade in terms of what Jesus is doing right now or not doing right now. Like if he’s in this or not in this. So I’m not sure I ever take a possession or a position, sorry, on what that may or may not be.

I don’t think it matters. Um, I think our response to it matters. Like, yeah. Um, how are you dealing with this? How are you still living out the great commandment, the great commission in the midst, in the midst of this as Jesus commanded this to you? Um, yeah, but not why, like I don’t know what the want to go with that personally.

I don’t know. I don’t know if there’s like anything specific to Corona that Jesus is teaching me. Um, you have a lot more time on your hands to kind of set think. And sit on the back porch and just pray and listen to God. Um, but the thing that’s kind of impressed on me over the last, I don’t know, three or four weeks, I was just telling a buddy about this couple of weeks ago, um, is this idea that like.

And we, we talking with good Christian faith about loving people to love people well, and, um, Jesus puts it, you know, love others more than you love yourself. And I think the eye opening thing for me in the midst of that was you can’t truly love somebody without sacrificing for them. Hmm. Um, and at least for my personality, it’s like I can love people.

I can do things for people. I should say that way better than love people. I can serve them, I can care for them. Um, I can put on the facade of care for them, but all reality, like if I’m not really sacrificing anything for them, I’m probably not really actually loving them. Like, either it’s convenient for me to do these things or I get something out of it.

You know, it’s like when Jesus tells us, um. Actually, I don’t think it was Jesus, it was in the epistles, but um, you know, if you know, it’s easy to love our, our family. It’s easy to love our brothers or sisters. How much harder is it to love with a stranger that’s never going to love you back? I butchered all those verses.

That’s the Josh Bertrude translation.

Andrew: Wait, that doesn’t it say like nobody would die. No man would die for a righteous man, but one might die for a friend.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. It’s those verses. Yeah. Um, but that’s like, that’s real love right there at that point. So it’s like, for me, it’s, it’s taking a step back and saying, how, how do I sacrifice in this moment?

Um, for the sake of this person, for whatever they might need, whatever, whatever the issue is, or whatever. The form of love I’m showing them is, and we’re not, like, it’s more than just like, I’m going to sacrifice my time and energy, though those things are important and you know, they have an impact on our lives.

Um, like there’s a greater piece of that. Like, um, Bob Goff likes to say, um, I can’t remember when, which book, if you haven’t read anything by Bob Goff, by the way, you need to phenomenal writer. Um, but he has a book called love does and love always. I think there’s two books. Um. And he has this concept inside of them that says, I should have to love you for the next 30 seconds.

Like it’s that I’m just gonna live for the next 30 seconds. It’s like in those difficult situations with those difficult people, with those enemies that I’m called to love, and he shares stories, pretty remarkable stories of how evil. Um, an individual is, and he chose to love this individual that caused him and so many others pain.

Um, how do you love them? Well, um, it’s how do you sacrifice for them? Um, and what are you giving up so they can, it can experience not just your love, but Christ’s love, right? Like, that’s the ultimate goal. Um, so that’s probably the biggest thing I’m kind of wrestling through now. And even like going back and reflecting on.

Different situations through my life and be like, man, like it was just me being selfish that took that situation to that place. Or it’s me being selfish and not engaging enough, um, to love that person. Well, and you know, we split ways or whatever happens to be. Yeah. But what about

Andrew: for you? I don’t know.

Well, like you said, well, uh, I don’t know what in the world Jesus is saying to. All of humanity, like I don’t know which way is still steering the ship. Um, but I know he is. Um, but man in my life, um, Easter just happened not long ago, which again, coronavirus everything feels like 10 times as long or way less as long.

So sense of time is weird cause we’re not going places we normally go. But. Easter happened and on good Friday, normally. Well, our church that I was excited to go to their good Friday service because we moved to Pennsylvania, not, not that long ago, you know, so I hadn’t been a good friend by service. I was excited to go check that out and um, do the service didn’t happen.

So it was good Friday. And we were at home, and it was just, uh, my wife, uh, Catherine and I, Catherine’s, my little daughter for those listening. Um, and anyway, we were just at home and I think we put her to bed and it was like, you know, seven 30, 8:00 PM. And I just. Man, Janet and I were talking about the term good Friday.

Um, and like growing up I always felt like, what’s good about this? You know, it’s only good if, you know, Sunday or Monday or whatever, you know, a couple of days, two and a half, three days from now. That’s the only thing that makes it good. So I was just thinking about it and I like, it was impressed upon me.

Like. Dude. What if I was one of those people following Jesus as like one of the disciples of like, this is my dude, and I don’t think he’s just a good guy. I don’t think he’s just a prophet. I think he is the savior of men. I think he’s the guy that all the other books are about. I’ve seen him do all this incredible stuff.

I watched him literally touch a leper three feet from me, not covert 19 six feet away. Like he got up there, touched him. I was three feet away because it’s a leper, you know, like seeing it from that perspective. And then, um, then on a good Friday, uh, that dude. You watch get nailed to a cross and you’re like, no, not real.

No, not gonna happen. Um, then, uh, you watch him yelling out in pain for a long time and slowly he dies and maybe you hear what he’s saying as that happens or maybe you don’t know, like you’re in grief cause that’s your dude. That is the guy that you put your faith in.

Josh: And then you’re sitting there like, dude, that was their King Messiah that they were waiting for.

Like he was the one that was going to call and change it all,

Andrew: everything. And then for the next few days, you’re sitting there and you’re like, you’re probably hiding your face from public. You’re quarantining, if you will, and it’s just like for the next few days you are thinking like, I’m the idiot.

Josh: Yeah.

Andrew: How did I get sucked into this? How can I go back and tell people like, dude, if, if Peter doubted as much as Peter touted when Jesus told him before the rooster crows, you’re going to deny me three times, dude. Like, you know, every one of those dudes, which would include me cause I’m not some special person, um, doubted like I’m the idiot.

I was wrong. How do I tell my family? How do I. Make up an excuse of like, I got sucked into this thing. You know? And I just tried to like live in that for a few days cause I never, I’m an optimist man. Like I don’t, I don’t want to live in that. What’s not good about good Friday, you know, talk and thinking.

And this one was unique to me cause I. I could, you know, there wasn’t much noise. There wasn’t much going on, or there was no going out. We weren’t planning for a big event. Uh, we were staying

Josh: home and,

Andrew: uh, I don’t know. I just like it, it honestly, that was encouraging to me because it was like. Yeah. If you sit in that for a little bit and you process that, like I think most of us would, then, uh, then you come out of it on Easter Sunday, uh, or whatever of like, Jesus is resurrected on that day and you find out, you know, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, whatever day you find out, and you’re just like, all that.

That small voice in the back of your head that was like, no, you were right to follow this dude. He is the guy still, even though you can’t see it in this moment, in that moment, you hear he’s alive and you’re like, I can’t find out right now. You know?

Josh: How often does that happen in our lives though, right?

Like that seems to be the story of faith, right? Like our faith increasing is going through those moments. Like you’re coming out of the year of the chicken, right. Where, you know, a lot of things didn’t happen the way that you wanted them to. And, um, in the midst of those bad days, right. Those three days, that time in between, I’m really like, like God, I thought you were God.

I kinda thought you were all powerful. I thought you could intervene in anything. I thought you could fix this and you haven’t done any of this. Um, it’s in that waiting, right, that our faith increases and grows and makes the fulfillment of our waiting that much greater. So like when Jesus does come through or you, you see enough time’s gone by and your perspectives change.

So now you’re like, Oh, look at how he was at work. Maybe not the way that I thought. And it makes those moments so much sweeter. But yeah, getting through those three days, Oh my gosh, we should write a book

Andrew: on it, dude.

Josh: This, I get through three days, like this is how it feels. This is what it looks like.

Andrew: And I agree with all of what you just said, but at the end of those three days, at that moment when you realized like that tiny, tiny voice inside my head that was like.

Andrew, you were a rational person, like Jesus was the dude. You knew it. He’s worth following all of that. That moment where that proves right, and you’ve got to go like. Many, many, like I knew the whole time. That’s what I was thinking was just like, like how many of the disciples were just like,

Josh: what’s the guy I told you?

So I told you this was legit. Yeah.

Andrew: But then in the back of their mind, they’re also thinking like, dude, I help. He cannot read minds

Josh: because I hope he was really,

Andrew: yeah. So I don’t know, man. That was cool. That was, I don’t know that I would have thought about any of that in that same way, if coronavirus wasn’t a thing.

We’re all a pandemic we’re all dealing with, you know. Um, so that was cool for me, school. And then aside from that man, which ironically, just in the last 48 hours, goddess told me, uh, to be way more vulnerable in my life and way more honest about the things that. Um, that I’m struggling with because I do not want to do that at all, ever.

And, um, anyway, he just, he smacked me in the face and was like, yeah, you gotta you gotta be honest and vulnerable about the stuff going on in your life. So, um. I’m working on that. It’s only been a day and a half, and, uh, and I’m not going to

Josh: spill.

Andrew: Yeah. But I, but I, I don’t know. Maybe I wouldn’t have heard it if it wasn’t during a pandemic.

Who knows? Um, but I think God speaking a lot, and I don’t know what he’s saying to everybody, but. I know he said those two things to me, so that’s good.

Josh: Well, I think like for most people going through this, I guess if they embrace it as followers of Jesus, if they don’t, then maybe they miss that. But like we live such busy lives is where organs like our schedules are full.

We take pride in the fact that our schedules are full. We move from one thing to the next. You know, at my last church, like we were just crazy busy. Like I always, my schedule was always falling. There’s definitely a massive part of me that took pride in that of like, look how impressive and important I am because I’ve all these meetings that I have to, I have to attend.

Um, but now all that’s gone. Um, so part of that is like, if that was your identity, like that’s going to do a number. Right? Um, but now you’re in this season of like. You have more time on your hands to slow down, to be still, to listen to what God is doing and, and to have conversations with them. Um, like you’d have conversations like we’re having right now, like just a conversation back and forth and things that they didn’t have time for.

They now have time for. So like, I wonder, coming out of this for the church and by the time you’re listening to this, um. We’re probably out of this, depending on how quickly we get these kinds of things up. But I’m like, I’m curious what happens to the church coming out of this, like do we see a greater, and I, when I say the church, I’m not necessarily talking about organizations, I’m talking about the people of God.

Like, do we come out of this more in tune to God’s voice and how he’s moving and, um, a deeper love and a deeper appreciation. For things, um, or do we try to get back to the status quo as quick as possible? Um, I think one of the biggest things, and I’d be curious what your thoughts are too, just on this too, but I think one of the biggest things are the importance of relationship.

I think if nothing else comes out of Corona, I think that’s probably one of the biggest things. And the churches, the groups of people that gathered together. And, um. Relationship was a big portion of their, their church experience. They already did life with people. Um, I would assume they continued to do life with people through this, for those that it didn’t, and don’t do life with people in that way.

I think they’re going to struggle. My guess is their faith is going to be affected or they’re going to walk away and not come back. Um, I think churches that didn’t build or organizational churches that didn’t build. Culture of relationship and community and true relationship and community. I think you’re going to see them start falling off the map a lot faster if they haven’t already.

Right. Like giving’s down across the board. That’s the thing. Um, the no denying it. Uh, and if they don’t come back, giving stays down. Um, but I dunno, I think. Whether God’s in this or not, I don’t know. But I think coming out of this, I think there’s a lot of benefit for the church. I think we’re going to be healthier in the long run.

I think followers of Jesus are going to be healthier in the long run. I think relationships is going to be at the forefront of what we’re doing and what we’re thinking now. Um, and hopefully, you know, there’s a new normal coming out of this rather than getting back to the old ways. But.

Andrew: Dude, I don’t, I don’t think there’s going to be any, getting back to the old ways, I think so much has shifted so quickly that, uh, that it’s going to precipitate change.

And like one of the guys, an elder of our church, um, you know, we’re in May 3rd right now. Um, he really thinks that it’s going to be like September till we’re back at church. Which dude. Think about that. I mean, it was

Josh: possible, like for large

Andrew: it, what was it like mid, late March when all of this really ramped up in the U S USA?

Josh: Yeah, I think we like trying to remember, I want to say the ninth we all went remote from work and I think state shut down the week after.

Andrew: Yeah, so it’s just like. Dude, what does it look like after doing this for roughly six months? You know, and

Josh: I think,

Andrew: I don’t know, like I, I think there’s going to be a ton of change.

I’ve worked from home for most of the last seven years. Um, which. For me home is fortunately now on a big yard and a big garden. And I have a project in the basement that I’ve been working on. So there’s been a lot to do in this kind of downtime, but I’ve still been working and, um, I don’t know. It’s been been a weird change cause it’s like so many people around me have come to this, like I’m working from home.

Placed in and figured that out. Um, for me, I’m just like, dude, I’m busier than ever. I have an under two year old, a kid who needs a lot of a basement project, a garden, which has got baby chickens, like there’s a lot to do, but, um, bring it back, uh, church, what that might look like. Dude, I think the church, it.

Josh: I

Andrew: feel like it’s a separation from of the wheat from the chaff, which I think, and I don’t say that to be like prideful, um, at all. I just think, like you said, in better words, the churches that cared about relationship and push towards that are gonna thrive and the ones that didn’t probably aren’t like.

I don’t know, man. And I feel like also the people who cared about relationship are gonna thrive. And the ones who didn’t kind of have a hard time like, dude, I can’t imagine going through this and seeing nobody this entire time.

Josh: You know? I know. Like, I don’t know how to do

Andrew: it. Like, dude, that would, that’d be brutal.

Like it’s, it’s hard for me to not see 20 people, you know what I mean? Like Jana and Catherine and I, only people we’ve seen are my inlaws, Chris and Laurie throughout this whole thing. Cause we were hanging out with them so often. They live like seven minutes away. We’re hanging so often that. It was like all this, all the restrictions came about and we’re like, well, we hung out for three hours last Thursday and we did this last whatever.

So we’re like, we’re just going to keep hanging out. We’re going isolate from everybody else. They did the same thing, but. Um, aside from that, like our faith, our, our, our church quickly pivoted. Um, which I would say we’ve been about relationship the whole time. Quickly pivoted, started doing Facebook live, Instagram, live like DeVos every couple nights, like all kinds of things to engage people that, um, wouldn’t normally be in the building necessarily.

And I think it’s been awesome, you know, and I’m excited to go back. To the building at some point. Cause I just, I feel like there’s going to be a lot of people who are going to be like, you know, the Easter weekend. Like I, I heard what you guys were saying, Trinity church, you know, and I’ve never met anybody here, but I want to come be a part of it.

And I’m like, like, I think that’s going to be the response. Um, so. But at the same time, I think we’re always going to be pushing, um, content about Jesus on all the social media platforms going forward where we didn’t have to before. But now we have to. So

Josh: you’ll be curious . Yeah. Like is this their new normal?

And they keep doing it. Cause so there’s churches knocking out of the park, like the content that in the church today in America where we live in two worlds, right? Like we live in community and we live in content. That’s what we do. We produce, both are pretty soon environment for both. Um, and the churches that are really embracing.

How do we provide community and content in this digital world? I think, I think you’re going to thrive. I think you’re going to see some cool things from a, um, innovation standpoint that like people are figuring out that maybe they didn’t, the church didn’t do before, and that has an impact, uh, to share Christ, uh, love and sacrifice with the people that didn’t hear it before, but also.

Innovation and how, what is church community actually look like and how do we engage each other and love each other? And, um, there’s definitely gonna be a moment when it’s finally like, Hey, back to normal. That’s going to be like, yeah. Probably feel like Easter to some extent. Like that kind of feeling where you’re like, this is like a really good day.

Like I get to see my people again. I get to hug and touch my people again

Andrew: and get to be like, I always knew it was true. I knew Corona with him. Like all of it.

Josh: Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah. So I don’t know. It’d be, it’d be, yeah, it’s such a weird time.

Andrew: It is a weird time, but dude, um.

Josh: I don’t know

Andrew: what, uh, I’m not even sure the exact right way to say it, but like what’s different about you as a follower of Christ going through a pandemic then if you didn’t have the hope in Christ and when I, when I say didn’t, after the hope in Christ, I just mean like.

I always benchmark that against like didn’t have hope in Christ is like, I don’t believe in God, or I don’t believe there’s a way to know God personally. So maybe like the, um, I dunno, maybe I think God’s real, but I don’t have a name for it. You know, it got, um, it’s just, I think God’s real, so that’s who I benchmark it against.

But like. As you go through this pandemic and fear is like being actively pushed to you by every media outlet

Josh: because that goodness right

Andrew: here draws eyeballs. Um, it’s being pushed. People are scared. What the heck looks different about you as a, as a person who knows Jesus in this moment? Then if you didn’t

Josh: know Jesus?

Yeah. Um, that’s a good question. Like. The fear piece doesn’t make any sense to me. Um, it’s like when you see it,

Andrew: like, Oh,

Josh: no. Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s what doesn’t make sense to me of like, why is this the norm? Like, yes, Karuna is bad. And yes, here in the United States, I think it just passed 60,000 deaths, um, which is an incredible number for a bad reason.

Um, but the fear piece. I don’t know. I don’t try to live my life by fear in general. Like I’m not a fearful person. Like I don’t make decisions based off of fear. And, um, typically I try not to even engage the emotion. Um, but let’s be honest, I don’t engage most of the emotions, so that’s just one of them.

But I’m just kidding. Um, I’m not, I’m not getting it all. I don’t know. Yeah, I guess I can see how people get there. It’s that like hopeless feeling of like everything’s going to be different. It’s never going to be the same. Um, my life is over and you know, I, you know, both you and I are both fortunate that we have jobs in the midst of this and our jobs are safe and all those kinds of things.

Um, so I wonder, like, those that are in the service industry and those industries that completely just shut down and they have no income. Yeah. And they’re relying on the government to be their savior in the midst of this, like, yeah, I get that fear. Like I can, I can understand that piece of it, but I think it’s just, you know, it always comes back by God’s bigger than this.

And I know that sounds cliche. I get that. Um. But you walk long enough with Jesus and you see them do some pretty remarkable things. Like you and I lived through nine 11 not that we lived through nine 11 in the sense that like we were actively affected by it, by the

Andrew: acts of,

Josh: but, but we were

Andrew: very cognizant of that hope for sure.

That was part of life.

Josh: And there’s fear in those moments. And. And how they acted out. That fear, I think was probably easier for them cause they could blame somebody, right? Like, Oh, I’m just going to blame all the Arabs. Right? And I’m just gonna hate Arabs from here on out. We just got them

Andrew: bombed. Somebody

Josh: in Corona is a little bit different than that of like, well, unless you, you know.

Jump on board with the extreme right wingers and China and all those kinds of things, right? You’ll get into yet,

Andrew: and it’s like 10 billion people or whatever their number is.

Josh: I can promise you that

Andrew: so many people,

Josh: I think that, I think the entire earth is like 7.7 billion, but China, one of them, 1 billion.

Andrew: Okay. It’s a big number.

Josh: But like, so I get the piece of like, I can’t blame anyone, right? Like, I get blamed the supernatural. I guess I could blame God, or if I believe in a high rating, it’s his fault. Um, I don’t know that it’s easier, I think for us to cope when, when we can blame somebody. Um, probably with most things in our lives.

But, um. Yeah, the fear piece, like I guess logically I understand that people get there. Um, but I’ve been walking with Jesus a long time. Um, I’ve seen him do greater things than this. I’ve seen him, um, not that I believe in the whole God has for, you know, the United States. I’m not in that camp. Um, I think we’re just a country, but, um, I think, God, I th.

I think if you walk long enough with Jesus, um, there’s a level of faith and trust that we know, no matter what happens, good or bad, we, no matter what happens, he’s in control. And because he’s in control, I have peace. So I’m not worried about it. Um, now I can worry about it, man. We can get it in the midst of it.

All right. My mom thinks she had Corona, so like it was in my house and I’m probably asymptomatic. Who knows? Um, we can all died. Like, why I want to go down. Why do I want to go down those roads? Like of what could, what if like what if lives are just, that’s a hard life to live. Like that’s a life that’s going to eat you from the inside out, um, and

Andrew: not allow your cart anywhere.

Because what if somebody swerves across something and hits you or. What if you’re at a fast food restaurant and the grease catches on fire and it blows the probate, like there are so many, there are so many ways that you could die. And those are extreme examples. But like as a, as a parent, something that.

I have thought about a ton of times, and I know you have to not knocking you for not having a kid. It’s just like as a parent, you think about the worst case often of like what is the worst case scenario of having a frog pond in the backyard. We had this little frog pond and it’s like. I can quickly think of the worst case, uh, about

Josh: that.

Andrew: But man, if I just dwell in that all the time, then I dunno. Should I board up my, my door that goes out back in? Should I make a 10 foot fence around it or fill it with concrete? Like what, what’s the appropriate response to. Some level of potential danger. You know where coronavirus is? It’s a thing. It’s a real thing.

And there’s people that have died from it, and it’s like, it’s a pandemic, you know? But if we know Jesus, then it’s like, Hey, you could die any day. Keep dying in moment. So. How can you be prepared to die without constant fear and thinking about it? You know,

Josh: like anything to like. And maybe death is the scariest unknown for people.

I don’t know. Um, but like there’s a piece of it that not knowing what happens after that, and granted, we don’t know 100%, right? Like we live in faith of what we believe happens after, after death, but there’s comfort in that too. Like I’m not worried about and not I’m going to heaven and there’s pearly Gates and everything’s perfect.

It’s, I’m with Jesus wherever that happens to be separated from him. Right? Yeah. Right? Like, I don’t know. And my scariest things are like, what have you suffer in this life? And you can’t get out of this life. Like that’s real fear. That’s the scary thing. Like if, I don’t know how, what the symptoms to the extent are with Corona and how you actually die.

I know it’s respiratory in nature and art attacks and aneurysms and those kinds of things. But yeah. Um, can you imagine like suffocating to death? Like the fear of the other side isn’t the scary thing. It’s how it could happen. That would, that would get me. But it’s at the same time, it’s not things I, I spend a lot of time thinking about.

It’s just not my personality. And Jesus can be in control and I can, I can just live in that and be okay with that. Um, now, if I was in a different situation right now, and like life was hard, and you asked me these questions, I’m might have a different answer, but now life is good. So I don’t, it’s not, it’s not a difficult answer to answer, but know what you’re talking about.

I don’t know if I ever told you this, um, but I have like this constant. I shouldn’t say constantly, like it comes up every like, I don’t know. It used to come up a lot and now it comes up like every year or so. But I have like this daydream or like this experience where my son’s like, I don’t have a son, but if I did, he’s like eight or nine years old and he’s riding his bike and he gets hit by a car and he ends up in ICU.

Andrew: You

did

Josh: mention that we don’t know if he’s gonna make it or not make it. This is just weird. I hope it never happens. I hope it’s just this. You know, the or my brain playing crazy things on me, and it’s not God preparing me for what may happen in my future. Um, but it’s in those moments, right? Like what is our faith going to do in those moments that holds us through?

Um, but it’s the same now. Like there’s people losing their loved ones and their life isn’t over, like their life is going to continue on without them. And it’s what do you do with that life now? Right? You can’t change the past. They’re not coming back. I’m worn, grieve, feel the pain of that loss. Um, but don’t sit there forever.

Like, your life’s not over yet. Like there’s still other things to do. And in our faith, we’re going to look at it and say, Hey, if you’re still breathing, Jesus does, God still has planned for you. Like he’s not done with you. There’s still hope here. Um, so chase the hope. Um, and I think that’s where. I think that’s probably where our faith in our strength comes in and see seasons like this or fear doesn’t take over.

It’s, we still have hope, but it’s not

Andrew: over, dude.

Josh: Even though the family, you may be single for

Andrew: the. You did tell me that one time, the kind of daydream of like the absolute worst case scenario, you know, you get married, you have a kid, like it’s all going great, and then seven, eight, nine years later, like they’re riding their bike and get hit by a car and you’re in the ICU.

Like that is horrible. Like I don’t want anybody to be there anybody, but. I get that. Like I think that is like you, that is our ability as humans. So imagine like here’s the worst case thing. How do I

Josh: react?

Andrew: What does God do in that? What do I do? Why? Why did that happen? All of

Josh: that.

Andrew: But man, and this is going to put you on the spot, and maybe a good question to answer with, and I, I’m happy to answer too, but, or a question to finish with.

But like, dude, if I’m, if I don’t know Jesus and, um. And like my, my grandma, not even my grandma, my mom just died from this and I’m not that old and she’s not that old. Like, man, if she just died of Krone virus and all this crap is happening and I don’t know Jesus and like, what the heck, how do I process that?

And like as a, as a person that knows Jesus, like. What do you do if you know me? You know, like let’s say your answer doesn’t have to be perfect, man. This is only for you. That’s a hard one. But like

Josh: my heart breaks, just thinking about it, like that being a possibility, right? Someone experiencing that, like

Andrew: can I probably, like I think about if my.

I’ve thought about this often. My, my dad is 66 his dad and his dad before that died at 65 and I’m just like, my dad died at 66 you know, right now, what would I do? I don’t have an answer. So

Josh: it’s like,

Andrew: no, I don’t have a great answer.

Josh: And the. The stereotypical Christian response. It’s a horrible response, and I don’t think it’s biblical or Jesus at all, is everything happens for a reason.

Yeah, yeah, sure. In the grand scheme of things, I guess that’s somewhat true. I’m in the midst of a horrific situation like this. No. Like

Andrew: right. And remember, this is like, this is me, you know me. Well, yeah, but I just don’t know Jesus and this scenario, you know?

Josh: Yeah. Um, I don’t think there’s anything you really can say.

Yeah. I think you just be there with the person. You don’t try to answer the questions and there’s hard questions running and I don’t know, it was an okay and acceptable answer. What they want is comfort and care. Like they just need to know people are in their corner, um, wanting to love them and care for them and sacrifice for them any way that they possibly can.

Um, but I think too often we think as Christians that we have to have all the answers and that’s just, it’s just not reality. It’s untrue. Um.

Andrew: Um,

Josh: yeah, I don’t think, and you know, there’s. There’s a piece of it that, yeah, I carry a hope that maybe you don’t carry. If you don’t, you’re not a follower of Jesus.

Um, and I’d love for you to experience that same hope and then your life’s not over that. As hard as this is. Um, and as this, this situation is to Mark you and Mark your future. It doesn’t have to define your future. Like you can still push through this and hopefully find hope and normalcy. Normalcy again.

Or at least maybe not normalcy, but like a new normal and that you’re someone that

Andrew: normal with

Josh: a normal, with help, like your mom is now gone. Um, that’s gonna. That’s gonna. Change who you are to some extent, but it’s not going to, it doesn’t have to change your future necessarily, like Jesus is still for you.

Um, so yeah, like how do you find the right time in that situation to share that hope? Like the last thing that dude wants to hear in that moment is, Hey buddy, you’re a sinner. Right. Well, I don’t know if your sin brought this on, your mother might’ve. Who knows? But you should repent of your son and find Jesus.

Right. I think there’s this other side too, like this whole idea of everything happens for a reason. I think we as Christians,

I think way too much of ourselves to believe that everything that happens in our lives. God initiated or God allowed specifically for you because the reality is God could be teaching you a lesson about whatever right now and that could affect my life. Does it mean God’s teaching me that specific lesson I’m in?

It doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to learn anything from this experience. All it really means is you’re going through something and the byproduct of you going through it is affecting me. It’s the same thing with like choices, right? Like. We get to make our choices and your choices are going to affect my life.

Right? Your instinct, this is the thing that pisses me off probably the most in people, is when your insecurity does affect my life. Oh, that drives me nuts. Um, deal with your insecurity. Stude um, but yeah, I don’t think we’re as important as we think we are. Do I think there’s a greater skill

Andrew: at play? More important than we think we are is the weird thing.

Yeah. I think Jesus from the sense. I think, I think God use this as like you are the reason I sent Jesus, even billions before us. That is true.

Josh: When we get into the hyper spiritualized the things that everything is about me. In all reality is there’s some point 7 billion people on this earth, and Jesus much is involved in nonbelievers lives as he isn’t involved in believers’ lives.

And then all of that works together in some grand scheme of things that is way beyond my pay grade. Um, and way beyond my understanding because God is much greater than that. And hopefully we get to heaven and we stand before him one day and all this gets revealed and we’re like, Oh, that’s how it all.

Connected or play together, but I don’t think it’s as important about us to make comments like that. To agree being individual is not comforting by any sense of imagination because you literally just said, uh, God killed your, your mom, and you’re like, well, I don’t know if that’s true or not true, so I’m not taking a stance on it.

Death is a real thing, and sin. A death is the result of sin, and sin is still rampant in this world, and that’s not going to change until Jesus comes back. And that’s going to have an effect in death, is going to continue to live until Jesus, you know. Returns and it all, you know, is put back to how it’s supposed to be.

But, um, yeah, I don’t know if there’s a good, there’s a, I think he’d just be there for the person. Like, let them know you love him. Let him, and you sit with him. Like, you know, my brother had a good friend. His mom passed away. He was a freshman or a sophomore in high school, and so super young, um, mom had diabetes, um, had a bad.

Instance with it and passed away. And, um, we spent, you know, handful of nights over there. There wasn’t a lot of talking going on. There’s a lot of crying going on and just sitting there and being there, I didn’t have any answers for this family and I don’t know why any of this happened. Um, but I can be there for him in the midst of it.

Um, I can try to love them the best I possibly can in the midst of it. Um, but to end this with a story onto it, with this story, same, same situation. Um, I’m coming home. It’s like two or three in the morning. I’ve just spent the last six hours, um, just sitting quietly with a family that just lost their mom deep.

You know, someone who they deeply cared about and loved. Um, I’m driving home and there’s like a pothole in the middle of the road. So I swerved around it and there’s a cop behind me, um, ways behind me, but I noticed him, right? But he saw me swerve. So I keep driving and I drive like three or four miles to get to my house, and he follows me the entire time and I’m like, you’ve gotta be kidding me.

And then I pull into my neighborhood and he flips on his lights and pulls me over, and I’m like, you’ve gotta be kidding me. And like. Starts through all those normal like DUI questions, right? Like this dude’s drunk and I’m just going to have to prove it, um, to the point where like, he’s questioning me about my driver’s license, not having the right address on it.

And I’m getting into like logic questions just like. Test my whatever. Thankfully I didn’t have to get out of the car and like do the perp walk and walking the straight line. Uh, but

you guys, the bad day, I didn’t tell him about it for years. Well, I ain’t even doing it wrong, and I was like, I feel shame. I know. Oh, we need to cover that in this podcast at some point. Shame, shame. I’m not a fan of shame. We need to dive into that one. That’s a biggie. Yeah. But Hey dude, this was our first podcast.

Andrew: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Josh: What happened? Let me go. Does the whole story

Andrew: go? What did he say? Just like, Oh, you’re fine. And you told him like listen was what was happening.

Josh: I did tell him what was happening. Like he’s like, where are you going from on a friend’s house? He just lost his mom. Uh, and then, yeah, you have no, he eventually let me go.

I was literally like less than a block away from my house. He didn’t believe I lived there. I think he followed me home, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Um, but it was like a rental house at the time, and I think the previous tenants were drug dealers, um, because random cars, like all different times a night were like, pull up right in front of it.

Some were like, get out. It’s like start walking up and then like run back to the car and just take off and you’re like, what is going on here? It’s such a weird neighborhood. Um, but yeah, it wasn’t as, I can say that I was pulled over for a DUI. Because it makes for a good story. Yeah. But it wasn’t actually

Andrew: lie.

Josh: I was, yeah. I used to say this too. I got, this happened twice to me now, but, um, I used to say all the time I got fired by a church. My first job, um, I was custodian and we like to say we got fired cause we thought it was a funnier story. Um. Did anxious, latest all off so they can hire one full time person to do, to clean toilets.

Uh, but now I can’t say that anymore cause he got fired from another church, which is a whole nother story probably for a different podcast day. But, uh, yeah. So it’s a funny story up to this point. I can’t, I can’t use a joke anymore cause he was fired.

Andrew: That’s a good point. And I do think at some point we got to talk about shame and how we react to it, how we react to it, but how, but also how we should react to it.

For sure.

Josh: The fact that Jesus died for it shouldn’t exist.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, yeah. This was. This is our first episode of podcast, and I don’t know if it was any good, but I

Josh: feel it. But I assume if we keep doing it, it will get better with us. We’ll keep pushing through this and eventually we’ll get really good at this and be a lot more entertaining to you than we actually had done,

Andrew: so.

Right, right. And if you’re one of the like two people that don’t know Josh Nye, and you have to happen to listen. Give us a few episodes, give us a little time, because you never know. It may turn into something good,

Josh: but actually enjoyed it at some point.

Andrew: Yeah. But this much, I promise you, we’re just normal cats, you know, and we’re trying to try and do this thing, right.

We’re learning along the way. So, um, as imperfect as a close as that is. That’s all I gotta say. Um, for me. You want to take us?

Josh: Hey, if you haven’t subscribed to us yet, please subscribe to us. Yeah, that’s right. We can’t ourselves, this Jesus life podcast, just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus life.

Hey, thanks for listening.