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Love Hopes All Things
Episode No. 32

Hope can be difficult to find and hold on to in this life, especially here in 2020. But it is possible to find and truly enjoy no matter the circumstances of this life. We believe hope is found in relationship; relationship with Jesus and with others. Listen in on this episode as we talk about finding hope and keeping it.

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Verses – 1 Corinthians 13.
Verses – 1 Peter 1:7.
Verses – Revelation 21:4.
Resource – BestSelf Icebreaker Cards.


Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name’s Josh. 

Andrew: Hey. I’m Andrew and we are this Jesus life podcast. Josh, you, my friends look like you have some fresh breath in, you are ready to go. 

Josh: I do. I’ll have to tell you off camera what that really is, but I’m not getting a recording of that.

Um, but you know, my breath is fresh. That is true. Sometimes she would pause 

Andrew: mint, mint spray. It 

Josh: looks to me Canada, but NACA. Do you remember, but NACA from back in the day, I assume it’s still around. It was like the original version of like. Spray like breath, spray. 

Andrew: Nice. 

Josh: I don’t know if it was the original version, but like I had it as a kid cause I thought it was cool.

Um, but I also had a, you know, executive desk in my room. I thought that was cool, 

Andrew: dude. I have come back to that thought so 

Josh: I know I’m fine. Not might not have been that cool. That’s what I’m coming into. You know, it 

Andrew: made you who you are. So you rocking your freshmen de spray and your executive desk, 

Josh: you were ready strict.

Cause we had a, we had a conversation before this, of how your formatting on events that you create on new documents you create for us. Yeah. Just or poorly written, um, don’t capitalize the right words, putting extra things that don’t need to be there. And I have to go back and change them all because he won’t allow, 

Andrew: I will try not to do that out of, uh, out of trying to get under your skin.

I want to do that more, but I’m going to try not to. 

Josh: I 

Andrew: a fuck. I’m being honest, 

Josh: but dude, I’ve tried to change our standing event like four or five times. So it’s in a better format words. You can switch 

Andrew: it up, I’ll change the recurring invitation. So that, 

Josh: uh, so the funny thing is, is grammar. Grammar spelling don’t even don’t even recognize you could spell things wrong.

I wouldn’t even, I wouldn’t even like register, but because it doesn’t look right, someone’s going to buy that Academy. 

Andrew: That’s fair. 

Josh: I guess that’s all that matters to me. The things just look pretty. 

Andrew: Yeah. That’s fair, dude. Speaking of looking pretty, dude, this is 

Josh: our last episode. Me. Yeah. This is either our last episode of 2020, or it’s going to be the week.

The first week of 2020, depending on how our editing goes in, right where right. Episodes get published. But either way, like coming to an end of 2020 for most people, probably really excited, I’m hoping 20, 21. This is going to be speaking of hope, hoping in 2021 is going to be a great year. Um, and a part of that is just believing.

It’s going to be a great year. You’re going to make it a great year or not. And I think we’ll get into that conversation as we talk about love, always hopes, but, um, yeah, uh, 2020 was a rough year for a lot of people. Um, but I think we should look at the great side of it. And let’s talk about what are our highlights as followers of Jesus, as people as, uh, Friends as whatever other categories that we can in this moment, as I stall to figure out.

Yeah. You probably have some enemies out there. I would assume we all do some, I might have enemies. I don’t even know we’re enemies. Right. Um, if you are an enemy of mine, you listened to our podcasts. Uh, reach out. Let me know that we’re enemies because I don’t think I have any right now. So. Yeah, please reach out, 

Andrew: let us know we’re in peace.

Josh: Please declare yourself. So let us know, uh, reach out my phone number. Hasn’t changed. It’s still the same. So reach out and be like, Hey, Josh just wanted you to know we’re enemies and I’d be like, okay, well, thanks for that. Okay. Awesome. One last name 

Andrew: so that we know. 

Josh: Oh yeah. Do you want to, yeah, I want to just random people out there and just, Hey, just want to know you’re my enemy.

And I’m like, wait a second. 

Andrew: Just from Colombo. Just call like, wait, who, who is called? 

Josh: What’s it said, yeah, like I don’t even know who to call. How can we be enemies, 

Andrew: dude? What, so yeah, some of the highlights of 2020, because yeah. And I know for a lot of people, it’s like, there’s a million memes, there’s a million, we’ve heard it expressed way too many times of like 20, 20 worst year ever.

You know? Um, and we’re at the end of 

Josh: that you seen the, uh, the video going around on, I think it’s on Instagram, um, of it’s like a. Dude, like acting like he’s an angel and like God walks in and says, Hey, have you, have you finished planting all, all of, uh, the twenties, you know, the 2020s, like have you, have you hit all 10 years and planned it all to the events?

And he’s like, wait, More than 22, like there’s more years. And that just whole joke of like, it all packed into one that was supposed to be fun decade. 

Andrew: No, I haven’t seen that, but that, that would make me laugh. I dude, there has been, there’s been some bummer stuff of the year, but you know, we’ve also probably talked through a lot of it because we started this in pretty early 20, 20.

Which is cool to think about that. We’re like, we’ve been doing this for like eight months, nine months at this point, which is wild. Um, but men, well, 

Josh: this is episode 32, like who thought we’d have made it to 32? I didn’t. I hope half-heartedly did speaking of hope. Yeah. Uh, yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, this is going to go forever.

And we’re going to have billions of listeners at this point. Um, we don’t have billions. I’m a little disappointed by the billions fact we don’t have 

Andrew: as well, but you know, we’ll get to billions. 

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and we’re making so much money on this because we advertise constantly, uh, because we’ve just figured.

We’re going to get to the point where it’s just advertisements in the art of this podcast is going to be transitioning from one advertisement to the next it’s going to be there. I think that’d 

Andrew: be the worst 

Josh: podcast. If it was 

Andrew: just a series that 

Josh: I listened to some of these podcasts 

Andrew: for minutes and minutes, minutes.

Oh yeah. That’d 

Josh: be bad for a certain amount of time. I’m okay with the ones that like. Like, they gotta make their money. I get it. But they put them all together. Yeah. So I’m a fan of those ones. So you just skip, skip, skip, skip, skip. Um, and then you get over it, which is really nice, but like Nixon, then 

Andrew: don’t tell them.

Josh: Yeah, no, they’ve got to know. They’ve got to report that stuff now. I feel like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like Apple podcast tells us when you stop listening. So what, um, 

Andrew: what has been some of the best stuff of 2020 in your life? Just like. I’ll be 

Josh: honest, my 2020 was great. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say it was a bad year by any sense of the imagination.

Yes. There’s a pandemic going on 300,000 Americans have died from, um, I think it’s 300,000 from, from the COVID and that’s horrible. Um, the pain that those families and those loved ones have to be feeling has gotta be extremely difficult. But, um, for me, I didn’t have any of those experiences. Um, I know a fair amount of people that have gotten COVID, um, but they’re all healthy individuals and, um, no pre-existing conditions and whether they’re just fine.

Um, but yeah, I traveled a decent amount in 2020, probably more than most years. Like I hit up the Northeast, I hit up the Northwest. Uh, I hit up the Southwest early in the COVID. Uh, we had. Impromptu beach vacation. Um, that wasn’t a plan, but like, yeah, the second you 

Andrew: can work with, Hey, you want to go to for a week?

Like, it, it started as a couple of days, I started 

Josh: the year with like, so it was like, yeah, I started the year with, I don’t remember what the trips were at the beginning of the year, but I know one of them was spring training. So we hit up some spring training games, like a week, maybe two weeks before like the world shut down.

Um, And then we weren’t remote and we were going to be remote till, um, well into 2021. Um, so we’re able to really work from anywhere because. You know, the government has lifted those tax requirements for paying taxes in certain States. Um, and I’m going to milk it as long as I can. Like I plan to go to DC area beginning of next year, depending on how things pan out and whether the lockdowns all happen there, I’d hate to like go somewhere and be stuck in a house for 14 days before you could see anything.

Uh, but no, I’ve done a decent amount of traveling. Um, my side is doing great. You know, I’ve been in this money this year than I ever have. That’s huge. Um, I’m part of a coaching network. That’s kind of leaning into, um, discipleship and, and relational discipleship specifically. And what does that look like on, on a larger scale?

And, um, yeah, there’s lots of projects and different initiatives and things in my life that kind of launched over the last year and a half, uh, that are really starting to come together, uh, hosted a retreat that you were supposed to be at and you ditched me on. So there’s. Yeah, Harmon  um, uh, yeah, but yeah, it’s been a great year.

I can’t, I don’t know if there’s anything in my life I can complain about. I assume there’s probably something I can think about and like come up with a complaint, but yeah, no complaints from me. 

Andrew: No. I mean, you know, earlier this week we were talking and Jack had just pooped on your steps. So that type of stuff still happens.

You know, you got all kinds of stuff like that, but yeah, dude, it’s, it sounds like it’s been a really good year for you personally. I I’ve had a lot of similar type experiences where it’s like on a. Like large scale where like, Oh, it seems like everything’s bad. But then on my personal life, I’m like, well, things are going pretty good.

You know, overall, um, he had before the world shut down, I had a lot of travel early in 2020. Um, I got to go to Honduras Nicaragua. And then a bunch of domestic trips, I was kind of all around, um, the U S whether it be Orlando or Phoenix or a few other places, like I have a lot of travel early in the year.

That was really cool. And most of that was for work. Um, but it was, it was super enjoyable, all the same. Um, Aside from that the world shut down and it couldn’t have been timed better because it was our first year. It has been our first full year in this house and we have a big yard and a big garden. Now we have chickens, but there’s been like so much to do, just to get ready for like, like spring man.

It was crazy. Like, I was felt like I was mowing all the time. I was working on the garden all the time, but it was awesome. Like all that work paid off. We got all kinds of amazing. 

Josh: Just the amount of money that you made off the, all that weed you guys grew in the garden. Like I was all, I had no idea you’re growing a hundred thousand dollars worth of marijuana.

Like Janet became a drug dealer apparently. Right. She’s like selling all these to neighbors and friends 

Andrew: and kindness dealer. Impressive kindest one you’ll ever know. Yeah. Yeah, man. 

Josh: I would say kindness, one, you ever known to you cross her and then life can be really hard for you. You’re my diet. She might cut 

Andrew: things start well, but they’ll end badly.

Josh: Jen is not one. I want to piss off. 

Andrew: It’s true. It is true 

Josh: now. So probably don’t wanna piss this one off. 

Andrew: We did grow in town. It tomatoes though. Uh, no, but the garden, that was awesome. 

Josh: That was Beethoven. I’m putting, I’m putting quotes in the air skies, right? Tomatoes, 

Andrew: cherry tomatoes, 

Josh: please. Listen. They’re tomatoes.

Andrew: All organic. 

Josh: I forgot your mom’s Barb. Barb. Listen, they’re tomatoes. Oh my gosh. No. 

Andrew: On top of that, uh, the goal of getting chickens, I know we’ve talked about that extensively, but it went from idea to reality. Getting the coop, 

Josh: um, 15 of them or 16 of them, 15 of them. We 

Andrew: started with 17 we’re down 15. It’s all good.

15 going 

Josh: strong. 

Andrew: We had, we have a pool at our house and we had an awesome summer, um, swimming a lot, uh, that was like perfect for 

Josh: the, for it to freeze. 

Andrew: Um, I don’t think it will freeze all the way down because in ground, but the top player freezes, you know, but I drained water and stuff. 

Josh: It’s hard enough that you can walk on it.

Andrew: I wouldn’t try. I wouldn’t try. And I dropped. 

Josh: It only has to be like what, like. Three inches or something like that. 

Andrew: I feel like it’s gotta be 

Josh: no, I it’s gotta be less than that because hockey hockey rinks are like an inch and a quarter thick mass. Yeah. I don’t know. You don’t crack all the way to the bottom.

Granted, they’re probably supported by a slab of concrete, but right, right. I was just thinking like, I’ll come visit you and I’ll bring some hockey skates and we could skate on your. Your backyard pond? 

Andrew: No, that’d be like totally cup of liner. 

Josh: Zero 

Andrew: chance. Sorry bro. 

Josh: Oh, there’s a liner. Yeah, 

Andrew: there’s a, a rubber liner that goes down the walls.

That would be pro 

Josh: skate near the edge. Here’s skate in the middle anyways. 

Andrew: It’s not that 

Josh: big. My brother’s family just moved down out to the East coast. They’re probably like a couple of hours. Show me, I’ll sit, send them over with hockey skates to test it out. And then it’s going to work all come out.

Andrew: It’s like a great time, but you should come. If you come in 2021, you should come hang out. I built a 

Josh: have to make it a long trip. 

Andrew: I started the big basement remodel. Well, I built a bedroom down there. Um, putting in a new floor, have a little bit of work left to do, to fully finish it, but the bathrooms fully functional the bedrooms pretty much all the way done.

Um, it’s pretty solid. Um, had an awesome time, like I said, in the pool and like doing some cookouts over the summer, um, Bunch of people we know got COVID, but everybody’s kind of recovered and doing well. So that’s awesome 

Josh: from your cookouts. 

Andrew: No, no, no. Not during our cookouts, just since then, you know, in the fall.

Um, dude, I think I, well, you know this, but I don’t know if I ever said it on the podcast, but, uh, our second child is on the way we are having a COVID baby. 

Josh: Um, do we just drop that? 

Andrew: I don’t know if I 

Josh: told the people off. 

Andrew: Um, but we’re having another girl. And that is going to happen. It’s December right now.

That’s going to happen hopefully in January and hopefully not in December, uh, but it could at the end of the month. So, um, that’s going to be a wild transition to go from one kid to two, but I’m really excited about that. It’s going to be good. Um, On top of that work has been okay. You know, but we’re in the midst of this pending reorg that never seems to come.

It seems like it’s finally going to come at the end of January. So praise the Lord for that. So there’ll be a lot of cool change on the Workfront once that does. Um, and then, I don’t know, man, just, uh, I feel like. A lot of things have been good in this year. This podcast has been one of them. Like it’s been really fun to do this weekend and week out to be intentional about what are we going to talk about some weeks we plan a lot better some weeks we don’t.

Uh, but Josh, 

Josh: Hey, this season we’ve knocked out of the park in terms of planning. Yeah. Uh, it was the first season where we’re like, uh, Hey dude, we’re recording later today. 

Andrew: And let me just say, we have our whole next season planned. We know what we’re going to be talking about. Roughly we know the big idea, what we’re going to be talking about, which is awesome.

So, yeah, man, it’s been a good year and I, like, I was just telling my wife, we were in a walk the other day. I was just telling her like, I’m just really optimistic about what’s to come about 20, 21, and maybe this leads into hope and kind of what you were referencing, but, um, but I’m just. Filled with, like, I see all these things that are coming.

Obviously I don’t see the future, but in my mind, as I look at things to come, I’m like, there’s just going to be a lot of good things in 2021. Um, obviously that doesn’t affect my hope in Jesus and the hope I have in the Lord, but it’s like in my personal life, I just feel like there’s a lot of things to look forward to.

And. It’s awesome. You know, I’m not walking into this year. Like, well, it’s going to be worse than 2020. No, like for me, 2020 has been pretty awesome. And I think it’s going to be, yeah. Even better 20, 21, you know? So I 

Josh: think a lot of people like, like as you talk to people, even people that have been hit hard, they’ve lost jobs.

They’ve lost so much income, um, going through lockdowns and COVID and all that, um, are looking at 2021. Like, you know, that’s going to be a better year. A bit, just because 2020 was so bad for them. 

Andrew: Was it right here? You 

Josh: can’t be good. Can’t get any worse. Like there’s not a place where like can get any worse than this.

Yeah. It’s, it’s interesting to be like off conversations with friends that, um, like I don’t ha I’m not in the same circles as often with, um, and just the level of despair that exists inside of kind of the cultures that they’re a part of. I just don’t feel like I don’t, you know, our, our business is doing great because our business was designed for, um, Um, remote, 

Andrew: you know, 

Josh: um, yeah, the digital, the digital world, um, and just helping churches get into that digital world.

So like, of course we’re doing well now we’re going to take a hit when churches take your head and they’re going to take a hat. Um, like I think they’re already taking a hit in terms of finances and, um, they’re just hoping they still have a church when this is all said and done. Um, But there’s gonna be people that aren’t going to come back.

That’s just the reality of it, you know, for a variety of different reasons that I won’t get into. Cause I think it’s depressing. Um, but at the same time, like I just, I often to, after that, I forget yeah. That there is so much despair out there. Um, that I just, cause I don’t, it’s not in my bubble. You know, the people I see every day, which for the most part of coworkers, I’m like.

They’re not in that place. Like, you know, life’s great for them, you know, we all have jobs and, you know, we’ve all gotten raises kind of thing. So, um, Kelly, just not a lot. So it’s, it’s hard to relate in a lot of ways. Um, there’s definitely a part of me. That’s just like, Hey, pulp, the bootstraps, like life’s still great.

I’m like, don’t live in that. That sucks. Um, but I’ve also been in those seasons and I’ve been in those seasons of not even that long ago. So like I get it. Um, and it’s, it’s. It’s important. I think for me to remind myself like, Hey, like, you know what that feels like, you know what it, you know, what, when it feels so difficult to, um, keep hope, you know, what it feels like.

So don’t forget those things. Cause I think they’re, they’re helpful when you’re in a place of great hope and great seasons and not a lot of complaints. That’s the easiest time to follow Jesus by the way. Uh, things are great. Uh, when things aren’t great, um, becomes a lot more difficult to follow Jesus. Um, mainly because it’s all built on our own emotions rather than just Jesus being Jesus.

Um, so there’s that piece of it too. So I think it’s just, as we dive into this conversation of, you know, love, always hopes as we come to the end of, of these love versus, um, we have love. Uh, always protects love, trusts, love, hopes, and love. Perseveres will be our, Ooh, I just hit it. That’s our last episode of this, this series.

Yeah. Dang. We have one more left. 

Andrew: That’s crazy. Well, technically we have always perseveres and then we could do love, never fails. Or we can do that as part of a looking back wrap up, but it’s okay. It’s okay. We’re close, man. Isn’t that wild? We’ve done. 

Josh: Like, that’s crazy 

Andrew: all these attributes and we’ve walked 

Josh: through the slope.

So you knew it was coming cause like we’ve been planning for what’s next and even for what’s next after that. But um, now that’s finally here. You’re like, wow, that’s crazy. And what’s next kind of give you guys just a heads up. Think we’re gonna just, and we’ve been pushing this. Um, in from time to time.

Um, we’re just going to talk about loving yourself. Um, just because, uh, so much of our inability to love, God love people and our inability to be loved by God and loved by people is because we just, we have a. Uh, unhealthy view of self hits. The 

Andrew: what’s causing the structure of myself, but I’m trying to love other people.

That’s where things go a little bit 

Josh: wrong. Yep. Yeah. So probably should have did that one first before this, but we didn’t think about it till halfway through this when we’re just kind of thinking through feedback of like, Oh, like, this is, this is a struggle for people to make this jump because of, so, Hey, we’re going to cover that next.

It’s only gonna be a couple of episodes. Yeah, I’m going to be a handful of episodes. We’re still trying to convince Andrew’s wife to come on with us. She is a, uh, I don’t know if she’s licensed yet. She’s in process of getting licensed. Cause I know Pennsylvania’s license process is kind of nuts. Um, but she is, uh, educated in the, in the.

In the, uh, the counselings, uh, and we’re trying to convince her c’mon, but she won’t do it. So if you personally know her and you’re listening, send her a text and just be like, Hey Tanner, go on this podcast. Cause their content sucks and we need to get a better answer. We need to help them with that. 

Andrew: You would really help them out.

Josh: Uh, 

Andrew: Josh has some extra AirPods and I was, uh, trying to convince him the other day. Hey. That’d be a great way to get Jana on the podcast, just to briber. Uh, if you do three episodes, 

Josh: you know 

Andrew: what you want 

Josh: AirPods though? 

Andrew: I don’t think she would care that much. She has some knockoff ones and she’s like 100% satisfied with them.

So yeah, probably not. 

Josh: Um, but should we need something hippy-ish to it’s true. 

Andrew: It’s true. Yeah, dude, 

Josh: maybe we’re on birthing tub. Like permanent one. You don’t have to rent one. She just always has one. I was just like, Oh, let’s have a 

Andrew: plugin. Um, just have it set up for any time. Yeah. 

Josh: Yeah, just in time she’s ready.

Or even like other people she knows they can come over and she’s like, I got a permanent one. It creates like a, there probably your creates like a, an understanding, but you’re gonna have like 15 kids leave. You are permitted, birthing, tub require do like you can’t just have to. They’re like, well, you’re gonna have to, to be pregnant again.

Andrew: We’re going to keep this a single no. Oh gosh. Still man. I, um, As we talk about, you know, we’ve, if you’ve been listening people, whoever’s listening. Um, you know, we’ve been talking through all the verses of first grade, these one through eight kind of attribute by attribute, focusing on love and relationships with each other and with God, and, um, love, always hopes.

Uh, it always hopes, um, and. That’s sad in first Corinthians 13, but the reality is hope can be tricky. Uh, hope can be like, I was trying to explain joy to Catherine the other night, my daughter, a two year old. And because we were, we lit that advent candle. That’s the joy. Kendall, you know, we’ve been doing them every night.

And I was trying to explain it as like, joy is bigger than your circumstances. Like happiness might be like, I just got a really good cookie. It made me happy. You know, joy is deeper than that. It’s all about. It’s a, it’s a level of, I’m always happy, Catherine. 

Josh: Yeah. How old is your two year old catch on to that one?

Is she, she remembers which candle is 

Andrew: joy. That’s it? That’s a win for now. You know, that’s a, she goes, are you going to light hope, joy, peace. And I’m like, yeah, that’s a win. 

Josh: Like, great. 

Andrew: But, uh, it’s funny, but if nothing else for me to try to put things in, how do I explain that to a two year old? Is good challenge, always.

Um, but yeah, joy is like that, that deep baseline of like, I can be satisfied with whatever in good circumstances and bad circumstances. I can have joy and my faith in Jesus and my relationship with God. Um, I feel like hope is one of those things. It’s the underlying. It’s not reliant on what happens today.

It’s not relying on six months from now. If I have a day where I’m looking around and I’m like, wow, 20, 21 is way worse than 2020 for me, that might happen. Yeah. But I can have hope. And I know that in that time I will have hope and I don’t, I don’t think that’s just because I’ve made these great choices, um, in my life.

I think that’s because I have a real. Relationship with God. Um, and I think that’s, I’m thankful for that, you know, but it isn’t something that I just wake up and choose. Okay. Today I’m going to be helpful today. I’m going to have hope. No, it’s like today, I have hope because of all these things I know to be true because of a walk with God for a while.

So I don’t know. It’s one of these things that’s kind of tricky to talk about. I guess I’m trying to say, cause it’s more like, uh, uh, Way of thinking. It’s more like a, this is just part of how you think it’s not reacting to your current circumstance, I guess. So that’s my long setup of hope is hard to talk about.

Josh: Yeah. It’s hard to, it’s kinda what it seems like. It’s, it’s hard to put your finger on like what, what is hope and. Like how has hope manifested in our lives. Um, but when you see it, you know, it’s, it’s, it, it’s kind of like one of those situations. Um, I won’t use the other comparison to that, to that analogy.

Um, but like, man, Circumstances, definitely shouldn’t play a role and this is the hard part to get past it. This is hope this is faith, and this is trust. A lot of these, these categories can get put in the same thing cause they’re foundational. Um, and, and when we let circumstances dictate those things and circumstances are things happening to us, the emotion that we’re feeling in the moment, all those kind of stuff dictate whether those things are hope or not.

Um, like that’s when you get into trouble and, and. You know, the secular world figure this out. This is why you see so many journals out there right now of gratitude journals. So what they’re designed to be, you just write down all your gratitude because the secular world has figured out what Jesus has already said, that, you know, your circumstances don’t dictate where your hope comes from, where your joy comes from, where your mental health comes from.

It comes from, from your foundation and your foundation is, is me it’s relationship. And I would argue, it’s not just Jesus. We said this last week, it’s not just use, it’s also your relationship with other people are going to stay because there’s things that Jesus provides through other people. Um, and that’s how he’s designed it.

Um, but I’ve been on this journey for like the last year. I I’ve had this tagline of this is where hope lives. And you’ll see that tagline on our website for this Jesus life podcast. Um, you know, um, we’re in process of building out a company that uses that as well as we provide resources. Um, and then I have another organization that, that uses it’s tackling, um, And really coming down to, uh, trying to figure out a way how’s that true?

Like if this were hope lives, like how, how can you make that true somebody else? Um, and as I’ve dug into it over the last year, cause at first you’re like, well, yeah, I want you to have hope. And Jesus is our hope. So like let’s just live into that. But for whatever reason that doesn’t work and it’s not that Jesus doesn’t work.

It’s okay. The way that we’re approaching it as, as Christians and as the church isn’t working. And that tagline came from this idea of like, when we look at Christians and when I was looking at Christian, I even think we said this when we started the podcast of why, one of the reasons why we started the podcast was like, when I’m looking at the Christian life and I’m looking at people that I know follow Jesus, I don’t see a lot of hope.

I see a lot of despair, a lot of frustration, a lot of sadness, and it doesn’t feel like joy. It doesn’t feel like excitement. It doesn’t feel like I get to do this. I get to be a part of. Of what Jesus is a part of and what he’s doing in his kingdom. And I gotta play like that should be exciting. That should be fun.

And I just didn’t see that around. So this journey started there of like, well, how can I help people find that again? And I think we’ve landed on it in a good portion of that through this podcast of, well, we think it happens in relationship as Jesus thought it happened in relationship. It’s the greatest commandments, love, God love people.

Um, and that’s where we find hope. That’s where we find the full life that Jesus promised us. Um, and. You know, this is why we’ve leaned into, how do we love people? Well, for the last, however many episodes, 12 episodes, right? 12. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because it was 20, we ended the first season, but, um, so there’s that piece of it too, of like, If it’s relationship, then how do we help people dig into relationship?

And it’s to really two types of relationships, right? Like it’s the relationship with God and how we, how do we invest in that relationship? And we went through a whole Jesus habits series, and we talked about spiritual disciplines and we didn’t talk about it because that’s what good Christians do. And you need to grow in, um, knowledge and understanding.

But we do those things because these are the things that foster relationship with Jesus from our side, because. Yeah, right. It’s all relationships are two-sided. These has done his part. Um, and it continues to do his part in terms of foster relationship. And then this is how we, uh, essentially do our part or, you know, mirror Jesus, uh, in some ways.

Um, so we can build into that relationship, um, and find hope and find foundation, find strength in that relationship. And then the other is with people. Like there’s so much life that’s given through people when we chose to take the posture of no, I’m just going to love people. Well, man, life is so much easier.

It’s so much more fulfilling when we just choose to love people. Well, it’s not always easy in the moment of like, yeah, yeah. I got to love this person. Well, this is how I know I’m supposed to do it. I just really don’t want to do it like those. Those moments are difficult, but in general, like life is just lighter.

It’s easier because a lot of people, well, that’s just what I’m gonna do. Um, people like you more, it’s crazy. It’s people, there’s other people that don’t like, like, like, like you less, um, comes with both sides, but there’s more people that like you more like life just. Easier that way. Um, and there’s so much life.

So I think there’s a lot of hope that’s found to kind of sum up my rant here for a second. Uh, there’s a hope that’s found in Jesus in that relationship. Um, there’s a hope that’s found in relationships with other people specifically with other believers, as we walk with them and find those people that love Jesus love us in that order and let them invest in us and us invest in them.

I think there’s that big, that big piece too. Um, this whole hope thing as well. Um, but I guess we should get practical. Like we’ve been, 

Andrew: I’ve got a few thoughts before we get too practical and too useful, more, uh, Headspace thoughts. Uh, I don’t want to get too useful, too quick. 

Josh: I don’t want to help you beetle.

Andrew: No, I won’t. I just want to provoke thought, keep you in this hopeful thought. No, Josh, I typed this out and I jokingly attributed it to you. It might be from you, or it might be from some theologian or something, but it says no, for me, it’s a quote. You said, um, that you at least vocalized will say, this is by Josh Bertram says love 

Josh: Hosan Herman.

Andrew: Hey, don’t do that. You can’t do that. 

Josh: No,  80% of my sermons were stolen 

Andrew: from just take the attribution. All right. It was vocalized by Josh Bertrand 

Josh: who was localized. 

Andrew: It was once said by Josh Bertram would love hopes because it knows the end of the story. And one of the verses that, uh, I polled is from, uh, the end of the Bible, Paul Tinder kind of show notes.

It’s revelations. 21, uh, verse four and there’s only 22 chapters in revelations. And it’s at the very, very end of the Bible intentionally. Cause it’s about in times, future state, all kinds of stuff. So, uh, revelation 21, where 

Josh: is this again? 

Andrew: What, 

Josh: where, where is it? What’s the reference? Is it 

Andrew: revelation or revelations 

Josh: that’s revelation one revelation.

Andrew: Well, they’re just, they shouldn’t have had so many chapters if it’s a single revelation. Okay. I typed it as 

Josh: John’s revelation. That’s funny. I was like, maybe he just, maybe I misheard him. And then I went to the show notes and you typed it that way. That’s funny. Okay. 

Andrew: So the revelation revelation 21 verse four, it says, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

There will be no more death nor sorrow nor crying. There shall be no more pain for the former things have passed away. Like, and the reality is that comes after a bunch of other revelation. Bye John, uh, that there’s all kinds of conflict. There’s all kinds of death, all kinds of pain. And then he’s talking future state, he’s saying, Hey, in God’s eternal kingdom, there’s going to be no more death, no more crying.

Uh, it’s going to be filled with, with all the good things I’m going to be filled with hope. The former things have passed away the former things, the things that get us down of this life. So I guess. And that Headspace of kind of saying hope comes from knowing the end of the story. I like that thought, man, I like that because you know, not that we’re living for just when we die and we’re living for being in heaven, you know, uh, we’ve criticized that idea in the past, but that we should live in the kingdom here.

Now we’ll have a full life in Jesus here now. Um, and, and that kind of living with him in heaven is just cherries on top. But knowing the end of the story, knowing that our hope is secure in Christ long-term and eternally, um, It, it is a game changer, man. Like if you’re walking through this life and your hope is just in your bank account or your sweet house or your friendships or your whatever, if your hope is just in the things that are here today and gone tomorrow, then they can be gone tomorrow.

And so can your hope, you know, but when you know the end of the story, do you know that, that God, uh, God’s word through the Bible is, is true. Um, and that relationship with Jesus isn’t this made up thing, but it’s a real living and breathing thing. Um, I think it just affects your weight, your whole life. I think it’s a paradigm shift.

Um, sometimes you got to remember you’re you’re still helpful. Cause you can be full-blown Christ follower and still experience despair or just depression, all those things. You can still have a bad day. You don’t have to artificially be this like great. I’m always hopeful. I’m always the most optimistic.

Everything’s perfect when it’s not. No, but, but knowing the end of the story, I think helps. For today, when you stubbed your toe or today when you get a huge bill in the mail you didn’t expect, or today when your foundation cracks on your home, I had that happen in Colorado. When we tried to sell our house, we found out the literal foundation had cracked.

It’s like these material things. Aren’t what we should put our hope in, you know? Um, but we put our hope in the Lord. So, um, yeah, man, I think too, like, 

Josh: there’s this, there’s this. I think when we go into trials like that, and I think this is one of the reasons trials exist is they the expose where we’re putting our hope in.

So like if I have all this money sitting in my bank account, um, or bank accounts, um, and all this money disappears in one moment for whatever reason 

Andrew: could 

Josh: be uncle Sam could be, could be allotted for Thanksgiving. My 401k being destroyed. Um, And I find myself in despair and I think that’s the opposite of hope.

Um, well then it reveals something about me or reveals that, that, Oh my hope wasn’t in Jesus, but it was just good. My hope was, was in my ability to financially provide for me and my family. Um, and now that that’s gone, like that reveals a lot about where we’re at. Um, so I, I, I think. I think it’s pay attention to those trials.

Um, I think, you know, when, when you start to feel despair, um, dig into those things and figure out, well, where’s this despair, like, what am I frustrated hurts at, uh, by, um, and then dig into that. Like, are you losing something that you put so much hope into because the reality is everything in this life you should hold loosely because everyone’s life.

It doesn’t go with you after life. Like the second you die, like it’s, it’s gone. And you know, maybe you’ve built such a wealth that it can go to your next generation, but like, you don’t get to do anything with it. Um, it’s gone. Um, so you’ve spent so much time building things that aren’t going to last, and this is what Jesus says.

You know, you build the things and put. Time into things, um, that are going to last, make sure your treasures are in heaven. Um, you know, invest in people. And that’s really his argument right here, right? Like it’s, it’s people, that’s the only thing that’s going to keep going after. Um, this, this life ends is the relationships that you’ve established, built and poured into.

Um, so invest in those things. Those are the only things that are gonna make it, um, pass, you know, your, your last breath. Yeah. Um, on two different sides of, of, you know, depending on, um, where they follow Jesus or not, but either way they’re going to continue. Um, so I think there’s that big piece of it, of like, and this is why the gospel writers focused or your sheets of the gospel, that the new Testament writers focus so much on the next life and Jesus even focused on the next life.

Um, The, the problem we ran into, um, with that ideas, we took it to the extreme as Christians, uh, and we didn’t focus anything on this life. All it was was salvation. We were taken care of and there was things as you just want to accomplish now. And I think that’s the criticism that we’ve kind of pushed back from.

Not that the next life shouldn’t be our, our goal. That’s where we find hope of, Hey, no matter what happens in this life, I’m going to invest the right things. I could be poor. I could have, you know, uh, everything taken away from me. I can have loved ones. You know, uh, die prematurely, um, all these things that are just horrific and in this life.

But I hold on to the things that I’m building for the next life are the things that give me hope. I’m going to hold onto my relationship with God. I’m a continue, invest in people no matter who the people are that around me. Um, though they may change, uh, From season to season in this life. Um, I’m going to see the fruit of that in the next life.

And that’s why we want to focus on those next things. Um, it’s not necessarily, I’m just focusing on the next life and God’s going to fix everything and restore everything. Yes, that’s true. But like, there’s things he wants you to accomplish now. That’s why he, that’s why Jesus looked at as disciples and gave us the great commission, right?

Like that’s why he said, Hey, go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. Um, And then continue that out. But, um, like that’s why this is, this is, this is important of it’s. That’s where we find the hope of, Hey, what I’m doing matters. Like it, I’m going to keep investing in these things and investing in relationship because it matters.

And, and I get to see the fruit of this. I don’t know if you’ve heard that danger, it just in my ear, but my work computer stayed off. I apologize. Um, um, because these things matter, so. You know, what are we investing in for the future? Well, when I invest in those things and like my perspective changes immediately.

Yeah. Um, no, I’m, I’m investing in this relationship now, um, because I know there’s going to be fruit down the line. Maybe I’m not going to see it in this light, but I’m definitely going to see to the next, and when I have that perspective, They’ve like, even when that relationship gets hard, I continue to invest in it.

Even when that decision that Jesus asking me to make is really difficult. Um, and it costs me something, um, I’m gonna make it because I know the fruit that’s going to come from the other side. Um, you know, when, when things are finally restored as Jesus designed them to be before sin entered the picture.

Um, so I think perspective is, is huge and general and you see this played out in our own lives, too, right? Like, we feel like we’re in the middle of this horrible season and we can’t see how God is working at all. And then we get out of that season and we look back and we’re like, Oh, okay. That’s how he was working.

That’s how he was moving, you know, certain things. Oh, that’s, that’s when I went through that and this is how he showed up and I didn’t even see it through that, that, that portion. So I think there’s that piece too. So like perspective is really. Where I think we find the hope. Um, if we invest in the things that are gonna last, our relationship with God, our relationship with people, um, this is why Jesus built it this way are the only things that are going to keep our hope alive as we go through horrible seasons.

And I think we go through horrible seasons and we feel despair. It’s worth digging into to figure out what was I putting my hope into that wasn’t Jesus. Um, wasn’t the way he designed me, you know, called me to live this 

Andrew: life. Man, Josh, you said something at the start of all those good thoughts. You said my hope wasn’t in Jesus’ life was just good.

And I think that’s a powerful sentiment and something that God can use to deepen your relationship with him. You know, that over time where it was like you realize, Oh shoot. My hope was actually in my bank account. My hope was in my home. My hope was in my. Friendships. My hope was whatever, you know, somewhere, uh, not eternal.

Um, but I guess as, as we start to get just real practical on how to be more hopeful, um, or how to have hope in a different way, I feel like a lot of times we’re talking and we’re talking to people who are on kind of the outskirts of following Jesus, um, or. Maybe did for a while and fallen away and maybe we’re still talking to those people.

I hope we are. Um, but I also just feel like in this room, the realm of bringing hope, uh, to our world and our culture and our friendships right now today, tomorrow, um, that sometimes people are looking up, um, in their lives around you in saying. Oh, my, my life was good and now it’s bad. They’re skipping that my hope was in Jesus.

Cause they don’t know Jesus yet, or they don’t, they haven’t chosen to live in relationship with Jesus. So I feel like as, as followers of Christ, we have a unique ability to kind of bring hope to those around us. Um, and, and we can get practical about how to do that, but you know, when, when Jesus kinda compares.

Followers of, of him, uh, followers of the Lord to being a light in a land, like a lamp that’s Litton, uh, that’s lit that you can see from far away, um, to being salt that affects the flavor of everything that comes in contact with being salt and light. Um, I think hope is, is one of those things where if you’re walking around, if you’re doing this life with real hope, it can show through, um, in a big way, because you’re not affected by the.

The tides of this world, you’re not affected by as much or in the same way as, as others by the winner of the presidential race or by COVID-19 vaccination coming out or by. Whatever other thing by your, your employment being altered because of X, Y, and Z. You’re not as affected by that. Um, now you have to deal with those things, but, uh, but you have hope in something deeper and greater.

So I was just thinking like, what’s one. Simple thing. And I added this in her notes, but one simple thing that you, as a follower of Christ can do to help bring hope to other people that maybe don’t have hope as much, um, is ask questions that point towards hope. Like we were talking a bit ago and I’m, I’m optimistic about 2021.

And man, one simple question you can ask people as we’re kind of leading into the end of this calendar year is like, What are you looking forward to in 2021 what’s hope filled in your life in 2021. What’s what’s the thing you can’t wait to do next year. You know, like what’s a huge goal you have next year.

Like you can be pushing towards that conversation where it’s not. Looking down and looking back and saying that was bad. That was bad. That was bad. Um, but it’s men, what are the things that are filled in your life? And you can kind of be somebody who asks questions that always point towards joy or point toward, towards hope or point towards the Lord.

Um, however, directly you want to do that. So. Yeah. Ask questions that point in these directions, you know, don’t ask despair filled questions. What’s going to be the worst thing in your next year. Don’t ask that nobody needs to dwell on that. Uh, you can go through those things in real relationship with people and bring hope in the moment.

Um, but you know, ASCA ask hope-filled questions, uh, to people around 

Josh: you. Yeah, that’s good. Like my natural bent is to be cynical by nature. Like this, just how I made the time built them. I’m looking for the ways that, you know, you’re going to screw somebody over or, or whatever. Um, so I think that’s a great reminder to, to be asking those types of questions that look to the future.

And, um, I think too, like, this is why it’s so important for us as individuals to get healthy, um, to get healthy in our relationships, to get healthy in our relationship with Jesus, um, to dig into those things like. Because it affects so many people around us. Like w we oftentimes forget how much influence we have over the cultures that are around us and the cultures that we’re trying to build.

Um, like if I’m constantly despair, I’m constantly playing the victim card where, you know, um, the world’s out to get me in all these bad things have happened to me in my life and all this, and this is all true. We’re not, we’re not. Downplaying any of the harm that you’ve experienced. Um, but the reality is when we live inside that harm for our future, we miss out on so much life.

We miss out on so much purpose with a seven, so much impact and miss out on so much, not just for ourselves, but for the people that are around us that we have influence with. And we have relationship with like the way that I act and I treat. You know, people on my team at work, like that’s going to have an impact on the culture, the way that I do the same thing with, with friends and with family, that’s going to have an impact on the culture.

Um, and we have to recognize that everything we do has an impact on the culture. So we building culture towards hope. We building this Jesus culture that we’re trying to build. Um, or are we, are we taking away from that? We stealing from it. Cause we’re definitely not just staying, uh, Uh, neutral to it, right.

That doesn’t work and that’s not true. Um, or either building into it or taking away from it. So watching it from that perspective with our actions, like how much are we giving to what we’re trying to build? And if it’s hope, if it’s, you know, love, peace, patience. Like if it’s this type of Jesus’ life that we’ve been talking about for the last 32 episodes, like, what am I doing?

Pour into that. What am I doing to build that rather than to take away from it and steal for, and then the other, that’s the other question, right? Like what am I doing? That’s taking away from any and stealing from me, I’m doing the opposite of what I’m doing. This is why gratitude matters so much and we should dig into it.

This is why, um, you know, paying attention to our actions, you know, dig into it. And this is why we should be asking questions that lead towards hope rather than, um, you know, questions are going to. Cause us to, to sit in our, our wallow of, you know, woe is me and, um, all the bad things, but like, you know, like you were saying, like, we’re the salt and light where the city on the Hill, um, like this is, we’re supposed to be the beacon of hope to a dark world.

Um, and if we don’t have hope ourselves, like let’s like, it’s not worth it. Dig into that, um, like find someone that loves you and loves you today and tell them, Hey, this is where I’m at. I don’t have any hope for the future. Yeah. Like, yeah, I get it. You know, intellectually that Jesus can work all things for his good.

I get it intellectually that in the end, um, Jesus wins that, uh, his way of life is restored, um, on the new heaven and new earth. But right now I don’t feel it. And I don’t know how to find it again. Like tell somebody that don’t hold onto it yourself, tell your spouse, tell a close friend, tell someone that loves Jesus and loves you in that order.

And because they’re going to walk with you through it and then tell them that. Can you walk with me through this? Um, like, can you, can you help me carry this burden and help me find hope again? Um, and then the way you find hope is in relationship, um, it’s building into relationship with one another and living out these love versus it’s building into your relationship with Jesus, um, through spiritual disciplines that we called Jesus habits.

Although he did back in like the fifth through eighth, ninth episode. Um, if you go back and listen, um, you’ll find him, but, uh, so I think those are the big things. So be honest or where you’re at, if that’s where you’re at. Um, tell somebody don’t be honest with just yourself and Jesus though. You should be.

That’s important. That’s a good first step. Be honest with yourself in Jesus, but then be honest with, with someone that loves Jesus loves you in that order, um, to walk you through this because you should be the city on the Hill, um, you should be. The salt and light, you should spread hope everywhere you go.

Um, like that should be your, your natural bent. Not faking it. Like we can tell when you’re faking hope, we can tell when you’re faking joy and you just got the face on, like everyone can tell you’re not hiding anything. Yeah. But man, when you really have it, Holy crap. Is that attractive? Yeah. Right. Like those are the people you’re like, man, I want to spend every waking second with this person because just walked away feeling so good about life, about Jesus, about myself, about like, everything is just great.

I’m like, yeah, that’s attractive. And that’s what Jesus was saying. He said, you’re the city on the Hill. You’re you’re the salt and the light, like. You are the place that carries the greatest place. I hope because you found me, um, not only that you found me and you found restoration in me, you found forgiveness in me, you found re relationship.

We restored, and now you get to do that with other people because I’m your source. Um, and that’s exciting stuff I don’t know about you. That gives me some hope for 2021. 

Andrew: That’s right. You should have hope for 2021 because we still have breath in our lungs. We, uh, when we were in youth ministry a long time ago, uh, I remember like one of the kind of first services where I was in, where it was like, I don’t know, this looks way different than the youth group I grew up in, but we were.

I was kind of shadowing and like watching it. It’s like, how do I help 

Josh: with this? I’m like, how can this be so good? This is a thousand times better than what I had growing up. It was really the leader of this. 

Andrew: Yeah. But no, I was, I remember kind of one of those, like. Yeah, not cornerstones, but one of those things we said frequently was, uh, find somebody who loves Jesus and loves you in that order.

Like, we’ve talked about that a lot here, but another thing that we said pretty frequently was like, it’s okay to not be okay. But it’s not okay to stay that way. Um, was like the fancy way of saying like, you can be hurting, you can be in despair, you can be having a bad time, but don’t stay there. You’re not meant to stay there.

You know? So if 2020 has been a total 

Josh: or stolen from someone else, 

Andrew: if it’s been a total, uh, 

Josh: I know 

Andrew: launch, um, of year that’s. Okay. Sometimes it is sometimes seasons are, you know, but it’s a season like. The ground doesn’t always stay frozen. Uh, spring is coming. There is hope. Um, you know, and if you still have breath in your lungs, then, then you’re capable of living in a place of hope, even if you’ve been in a place to just bare for awhile.

So it’s okay to not be okay. Just don’t stay that way. And even if you’ve been there for months or years or what feels like a lifetime, there’s more to this life than living in despair. There’s more than in this life than, than living alone or, or lonely. Um, there is hope his name’s Jesus, he came and he died for you.

Um, and, and then he Rose again so that he could live with you. And you could live with him. So, um, there is hope that’s something that’s, that’s powering this podcast powered by hope. You know, it’s like there’s a million reasons we could look around and have spare. But there’s even bigger reason for sure.

To have hope, you know? Um, 

Josh: well Jesus said it at the end of the great commission, right? Like, and I’ll be with you always to the very end of the age. Um, like that’s what we have access to. We have access to Jesus and. You know, how do we find purpose and meaning? Well, we live out the great commission as Jesus commanded this too.

That wasn’t something just for the church, the organization that’s each individual as followers of Jesus. This is what we’re supposed to do. We’re supposed to go into all the world to make disciples of all nations, baptize them, the name of the father, the son, and the Holy spirit and teach them to obey everything I’ve commanded you.

And. Dan I’m with you Shirley, to the very end of the age. He’s not going anywhere. He didn’t ask you to do this by yourself. He just asked you to be a vessel so he could do it. But in the midst of all that, we get to live in rich, deep relationship with Jesus, like the knower of all things, the Foreseer of our futures, the there’s so many, like there’s so many benefits, just being a relationship with God himself.

Um, like. Why wouldn’t you want to dig into those things? Um, that’s where you’re gonna find hope and great excitement and, um, you know, focusing on that is going to be a place of source of hope for that’s going to pour out of us. So we can then focus on relationship with one another, um, and let the, that hope, you know, live there as well.

And that’s the only gonna multiply and grow. And then, you know, it’s gonna spread outside of our spheres of influence, um, to those. You know, that were loosely connected to, and they’re going to be attracted to it because we’re being the salt, the light in the city on the Hill as Jesus has called us to be, um, that’s exciting stuff.

Um, hopefully this was helpful. 

Andrew: Well, one more thought that, like what you were just saying, man, those kind of scriptures and ideas you were spouting off. Um, they’re all hope-filled but they come from kind of knowing what you believe and what you believe, like you said comes out in those kind of rough seasons, where were things.

You seem to be challenged by a lot of things. That’s where the they come out and you’re like, Oh, I didn’t realize I believed that until this happened. And I realized I was putting my hope here. I realized I had too much confidence in that. Um, whatever those are chances to refine your beliefs and to, to be like, wait.

No, I actually need to, to study a little bit more about what did Jesus say we’re supposed to do in this life? You know? Cause there’s, there’s just knowing history. There’s memorizing the Bible, which I think is great. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that’s bad at all. I’m saying there’s like that head knowledge.

And then there’s the, here’s what I believe. And here’s what I believe is we are meant to live out the great commission. Uh, like you were just talking about Josh. We are meant to be salt and light, but I’ve come to those things and you’ve come to those things over. Time and over choices to say, no, I do believe this is true.

I believe this is the way I believe this is the right path. Um, I believe this is real. Um, so yeah, just take this season. It’s been a good one or bad one analyze why it’s been bad. If it has been bad analyze why it’s been good. If it’s been good and then say, okay, Yeah. Is there anything shaky here? Is there anything shaky?

I need to refine out of 2020 to have a more hope filled 20, 21. What do I believe about X, Y, and Z? Whatever that shaky thing is, what I believe about that and why, um, and that might take help. It might take seeing a therapist. It might take praying honestly, for the first time in a while. We’ve talked about that a lot.

Um, pray real deeply, honestly, to Jesus. Cause if he can’t handle that. God can’t handle your honest thoughts and prayers. Well, he’s not God. So just be honest with them. See how it goes. It’s going to go better than you think. And then give then take that to a person, uh, because, um, God tells us to confess things to one another for a reason.

Um, it’s not for shame. It’s, it’s more for us than anything else and to be held accountable. So. All that to say, know what you believe? Uh, because, uh, when you’re facing a hard season, it might get rocked. And if you’re in a great season, it’s, it’s, it’s the perfect time to analyze what you believe in. Why? So?

Um, I don’t know, man. I feel a little, yeah, there 

Josh: a there’s a guy used to know. There’s a guy who used to know, um, Years ago. I’m trying to remember who it is and I can’t for the life of me, but I do remember his posture. Um, I remember him saying something to the extent of, uh, life was falling apart around him and he was excited about the trial.

Um, he’s like now I get like this trials, like, this is awesome. And you’re like, what the heck is wrong with you? Like who loves trials? But after this conversation, like. You’re like trials reveal where I’m putting hope. That’s not that shouldn’t have my hope. Um, like when things get hard and, and. You know, people are failing.

You will. I was putting my hope in people rather than in Jesus. Like, yes, Jesus provides a lot through people. That’s people are important, but individual people, um, should not be providing my hope. Your spouse should not be providing your hope. Um, you know, your, your, a great friends, your whoever should not be providing your hope.

Jesus provides the hope. He’s the source of all future hope. Um, So trials are a great thing. Trials are going to reveal places that you’re not actually trusting Jesus. Things are just good. Um, so it’d be curious, Paul, let you know, the next time I go through a major trial and I’m like, everything’s falling apart.

Uh, whether or not my hopes actually in Jesus or not. Uh, but trials should be looked at of like, wow, this is going to reveal. And this is what he like, this is pan Jesus said, all these things trials are putting us through the fire. Right? You’re going to pull out the things that are revealing to us. Um, man, all these great things that Jesus told us that we’ve had access to for 2000 years.

And when we miss out on constantly or we misread and man, I haven’t read those verses in awhile. Remember the last one I read those verses. Um, but yeah. Like, I’m going to go read them today. Cause you’re like, man, Jesus is speaking through them and they’re just memory. Um, which is, you know, exciting things in itself of like, Hey here’s Jesus blessed me enough to remember these things.

Um, Man. It’s so good. Jesus. I love you. Uh, thank you for how you shape us and mold us. Thank you for how you invest in us and our future. Thank you for the hope that we can find in you and God when trials arise. Uh, let us, uh, realize that these trials can be a blessing, um, because they can be a blessing of showing us where we’re missing out on more relationship with you, because we’re not putting our trust wholly in you we’ve put our trust in our circumstances or our situation.

Um, so God, let those trials come. That’s a terrifying prayer, but God let those trials, those trials come. Um, so we can, we can see where in our lives, we’re not trusting you. Um, so we can learn to trust you and then give us opportunities as you always do, um, to learn to trust you in those moments. So we can become stronger, um, more foundation, like more, uh, a stronger foundation, um, in our relationship with you and who you’ve called us to be.

So we can always have hope. No matter how hard life gets and how much destruction is caused around us, um, that, that we have hope in you because you are our source of all things. So Lord Jesus, we love you. Hey, if this is the end of 2020, we pray blessings upon you. If this is the start of 2021, we also pray blessings upon you.

We do this. This is a year that you find Jesus in a deeper, deeper way, and you find relationships as you use this, call this to find them and loving ones. Another, may 

Andrew: it be my friend? May it be thanks for having this discussion and, uh, friends, if you’re listening. Thanks for listening and care about chip, more framed for you.

Josh: Thanks 

Andrew: for listening to our show. It really means a lot to us. And we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and with other people. 

Josh: And also helps us out if you rate our podcast or leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening, go. So follow us on Instagram and the Facebook.

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Jesus’ life You can message us on Facebook and Instagram, or you can just visit [email protected] But seriously, thanks for listening.

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