Andrew: This is episode six, Busan Puffin and the herb Jesus drink. Grape juice. Weed is everywhere.

Josh: Hello? Hello? Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name’s Josh.

Andrew: Hey, Hey, this is Andrew and we are this Jesus life podcast. Josh. What’s up my man, episode six. How are

Josh: you doing? I’m pretty

Andrew: good. Uh, pretty good, man. It’s been stormy here. So if I lose you in the middle of this thing, that’s why, but overall, can’t complain, man.

Josh: How’s your internet coming into the house above ground.

Andrew: No, but we might lose power. We’ve had intense storms, dude, like two times today, just crazy storms. Like

Josh: we’ve had like not intense storms, but enough of a gray sky to freak my dog out that he thinks Thunder’s coming. So he won’t leave my side.

Andrew: That’s an observant dog, man.

Josh: Just like them. Great. Again, it’s a constantly shaking and you’re like, dude, like there’s nothing even happening right now.

Try to go outside with them and you want to know part of it? Oh gosh. That’s funny, dude.

Andrew: I could complain and I have been complaining a lot because my daughter’s teething a big time. So sleep has been brutal. And she skipped her nap today. She took no nap where it like she’s been taking four hour naps.

Just skipped it outright today.

Josh: It was roughly she sleeps.

Andrew: Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully

Josh: just completely exhausted. Yeah,

Andrew: I gave her a big shot of whiskey. Um,

Josh: so hopefully, um,

Andrew: yeah, no, uh, if you’re listening, I did not. That’s a joke. Refer to the episode.

Josh: If you’re listening to let them lie to you, we’re on video right now.

I can see his daughter in the background with a whiskey bottle.

Andrew: No, stop it. I did give her Motrin though, about an hour before a

Josh: kid’s motion, like pain medicine.

Andrew: It’s like, I’d be profaned for kids, but it’s like in this liquid form that. Gotcha. That’s good stuff.

Josh: It works. Do it. As I look at our intro again, that we thought was creative and exciting.

Yeah. I was told this week by somebody that I know that listens to our podcast, that it’s lame and he doesn’t understand how write it’s like, just build this up. My friend, like so great of you to let me know. He said music top-notch loved the music, but the hello? Hello. Hello thing. And the, Hey, Hey. No, that’s stupid,

Andrew: dude.

Yeah. Do we reject that criticism? I agree.

Josh: Good criticism always comes with a solution, right? You should have gave me a solution. He said, you know what, Josh, this is why you should have said so to you listening right now, we won’t name you though. Your name starts with a P and ends with an R a we won’t name you a last name to keep our insurance until you give us a better one.

So serial number is seven.

Andrew: You need to a group, text us and give us your top three interests. You’d like to hear.

Josh: Yeah. We’ll test them out over the next three episodes. And then yeah, we’ll let our listeners tell you how hard it is to write an intro. Yeah,

not yet

Andrew: boozing. Puffing and the herb dare

Josh: let her well, Busan is drinking. Puffin is smoking. And of course the herb is that green plants called

Andrew: shadow smoking.

Josh: Yeah. It’s Colorado smoking there. You get, we call it marijuana or weed, uh, or. I don’t have any other names. I should, sorry. I’m not up to date on the, the weed culture, but, um,

Andrew: yeah, we’re talking you’re in Colorado dude.

Like I thought you’d be pretty

Josh: pro, which most people would believe. Right? Like most people believe that because I’m from Colorado. I carry around bags of weed with me at all times. Ready to smoke it. You gotta vape it too. How does vaping work? Isn’t it. There’s an all liquid like oils. I don’t know. Where do you like shove the actual weed inside the vape?

I asked you cause I know you vaped, so

Andrew: no, I don’t eat. Come on, man. Not at all. No,

Josh: no.

Andrew: Um, but it is the liquid. I do actually know that it’s some sort of liquid and fused with it. The drug part of marijuana.

Josh: Gotcha.

Andrew: That’s kind of all I know.

Josh: So we’re probably not the people to answer these questions, but we’re really talking about like, can Christians can followers of Jesus though.

They’re trying to live this Jesus life. Can they partake in the booze and the puffing in the herb? Derbs

Andrew: right, right. And it’s tricky because to me, the Bible is pretty clear, uh, in some senses of like being drunk, being controlled by. Other things that aren’t God, um, it’s pretty clear. That’s not, we, no, not good.

Not OK. Um, but can you partake that’s that’s where a lot of people don’t agree

Josh: for sure. Oh, for sure. Like, I was looking at statistics on like, um, Lifeway did some research and granted Lifeway, a Southern Baptist organization. So, um, they’re probably pulling a lot more Southern Baptist than, than other denominations.

Uh, yeah, but it’s, it’s relatively split on what they think is whether or not they believe alcohol is a sin or not, and taking any part of it. Um, most of them agree that being drunk is 100% of sin. There’s really no way around that. The 23% say, uh, no, I’m not sure how you get there, but that’s fine. Um, Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. I just like the breeding.

Josh: I had a pastor buddy once tell me, uh, I didn’t think I was 21 yet. Um, maybe he was like trying to make sure I took the right stance on it, but I remember him telling me as a 20, 19, 20 year old. And he’s like, you know, that Jesus, um, uh, the, the wine that he made was actually more like grape juice because the fermentation process actually hadn’t happened yet.

Um, which is funny. We can like list that into the things, funny things Christians say, right. That’s really great. Just good old Southern Baptist pastor taking that stance. But unfortunately my friend, uh, history does not say that nowhere in history does that claim that to be true, that they were more than capable of making alcoholic wine, uh, in that day of Jesus.

And not only that, it was. Normal. And not only that we see it in scripture that Paul tells us, or Paul tells Timothy, maybe I’m not remembering off the top of my head, but, um, yeah, just water drink some wine, take some care of your stomach. You, so there has to be some form of alcohol. Yeah. What do you say?

The

Andrew: letter that Timothy Reed wrote to Paul was about where he was like, I everything’s gone pretty good, but I do have a lot of diarrhea,

Josh: which

Andrew: Paul’s like got, just drink some wine dude. Be fine. Yeah, man.

Josh: He’s lactose intolerant. I did not know that at the time too much stress.

Andrew: Yeah, way too much. She’s even in that same story though, about Jesus, um, and turning the water into wine,

Josh: the,

Andrew: it just doesn’t pass the sniff test that it’s grape juice because the ruler at the end of the story, that the one they were like celebrating the wedding of, um, was like to the servants.

Like, why did you save the great wine for last? What are you thinking? We put out the good one first here, you know? So come on. Not grape juice.

Josh: That’s true. Well, and how crazy is it that that Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine when there’s such like tension over on what side? Christian stand on what’s okay.

And what’s not okay.

Andrew: Like, Oh man, I just had something hit me. When you said that Jesus was like really not a fan of the Pharisees and really in their face, the Pharisees, you know, like super religious Jews of the day, like. He was always really in their face. Like you’re a whitewashed tomb. You you’re a hypocrite.

Uh don’t don’t do what they say, but don’t live how they live, all that stuff. Yeah. And I wonder if he was like, yeah. Later on, a lot of Christians are going to really struggle with is drinking. Okay. Or is it not? Okay. So I’m just going to mess with them and make my first miracle water to wine.

Josh: I was like taking on the religious.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, maybe I, and we’re not the, we’re not unique in that. We’re not the only generation you think about that, but

Josh: also something

Andrew: about breaking it down in advance.

Josh: It also depends on the part of like what part of the. The country we’ll just use the United States as an example that you come from.

Right. It’s really seems to be a lot more cultural than anything else. Like I come from Arizona, I spent most of my life there and when I turned 21, I lived in Arizona and Arizona, I always say is like the tip end of the Bible belt. It might skip over, uh, uh, New Mexico. That’s like the little dip in your belt, um, going over the, the holes, but.

And then you got that little tip in, cause everyone attends church. Everyone is they take the stance of a morally, right. And nobody drinks in public. Like if you’re a Christian, you don’t drink in public. Um, you only really say that you ever drink. It’s not really a thing. Um, right. But if you do drink, you better drink very secretively and in your home.

So nobody else can see you, right? Like that’s their stance on it. Um, and then I moved to Colorado and I’m having a lunch with a pastor friend when I first moved here. Uh, and he lives, or his church is across the parking lot from, uh, Buffalo wild wings, which by the way, if my church was a, from across the party line at Buffalo wild wings, I’d be twice the size that I am today because I’d be eating there, all tests.

Andrew: Yes wings.

Josh: And he gets a beer at lunch while we’re eating lunch. And that was my question. I was like, wait, wait, wait,

Andrew: dude, pastor lawyer, or pastor

Josh: he’s 100% pastor. Wow. Drinking. Alcohol’s okay. Um, Hm. So I’m sitting there like, and I even asked him as a dude, like, can you drink. And he’s like, dumbfounded.

Like he’s like, what are you talking about? I was like, like people going to see you. And he’s like, what? Like, no, like, this is he’s like, this is nothing. Like, what are you, what are you talking about? Uh, so like Colorado, Christian and Christianity has this culture of drinking’s. Okay. It’s not, it’s not that big of a deal.

Um, it’s not a moral issue of right or wrong. It’s just something that we could take to a sinful place. Um, And then you go into like the South South, and I’d assume it’s back to the end of the Bible belt, like Arizona, but what was your, what was your experience with alcohol growing up?

Andrew: Uh, growing up, I was in, uh, like in Ohio, I would say it’s culturally totally fine to drink.

Um, excuse me. I grew up in a pretty, uh, pretty conservative home, uh, where, like my parents didn’t drink. They still don’t. They might have a glass of wine. Occasionally if they like visit us and we’re having a nice meal, you know, but that’s pretty much the only time they drink at all.

Josh: So attempt to just.

You tempt them when they come on, you’re like, no, mom, it tastes so good. Just like grape juice.

Andrew: No, no, but it’s pretty normal for us. If we’re going to make like a really nice Sunday dinner or something, like, that’s a great reason to open a bottle of wine, you know? And, uh, and that’s kind of, kind of where we’re at on it.

Um, and I’ll always. I’m never pressuring them. Like have some wine, have some wine. I’m just like, just like

Josh: putting your mouth while they’re sleeping. So they look at the flavor. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Andrew: Yes. So, um, yeah, I mean, still to me it was like very Ohio. The drinking culture is more like, it’s fine. You know, if you, if you want to cool, if you don’t want to, that’s fine.

Um, but we were kind of on the far end of like, what about did that ever? Yeah.

Josh: What about going to a Christian college? What was that like in drinking? Great. Good.

Andrew: Oh, that was very

Josh: much and allowed to be drinking,

Andrew: dude. That was like, totally. I went to, you know, kind of nowhere, middle of Indiana, Indiana college, um, Indiana Wesleyan university.

Westlands don’t really drink. I mean they do, but when I was going there, if you were a member of the church, you had to sign off on, I don’t drink alcohol, um, to be a member, a voting member. Um, to be a nonvoting member, you could sign, you’ve done an app to say you don’t drink. Um,

Josh: so

Andrew: yeah, so it at Indiana Westland, it was very much hide it if you do it just real secret.

Um,

Josh: and that’s essentially, if you now.

Andrew: But, and it was, it really was hidden a lot. I remember though, uh, my junior year I was sitting next to our, I was in a business class and this girl came in and sat down next to me, like in the desk or row or whatever next to me. And it was like an eight or 9:00 AM class.

And she, I remember she took a sip out of her coffee, tumbler, and I immediately smelled just straight vodka. I’m like, I’ve looked at my watch. I’m like what?

Josh: I have a friend that I want to ask you. Was it her? But I won’t, I won’t bring it up. It wasn’t her. It wasn’t her.

Andrew: It’s nobody, you know, uh, her name start with a D just kidding.

No, no it wasn’t. But dude. Yeah, so it was very much hidden and honestly, I didn’t, I didn’t really drink much at all through college. Like I was. I just was fine without it, you know, it’s still say it was fine without it. Yeah. But yeah, man, but it was hidden for sure

Josh: as well. And then college, like you can’t drink to your senior anyways, right.

Illegally, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew: But yeah man.

Josh: Yeah. My experience with alcohol, like I’ve always drank since I was 21. I drank in high school too. Now I drink in high school and get drunk. Cause that’s what all my friends did. Um, you know, we go on hockey trips and. Our coach would buy us a bunch of boos, typically like Coors lights, something cheap and easy, but, um, And then, you know, when I decided to take your Shanti seriously, I stopped drinking.

Yeah. Um, one because I was under age, but too like culturally, that’s what you’re dead. Um, and then we turned 21, we started drinking again. So my brother turned 21 a year after I did. Um, and when he turned 21 is probably when we started drinking more, as we had poker nights and now we get into gambling, not that weird.

Passing money because let’s be honest. We all suck at poker and no one wants to lose any money. We’re all poor college students

Andrew: have ever played around a poker for more than five bucks would like with friends inevitably lasts. Six hours, you know, and you walk away with 20 bucks if you

went

Josh: all of it.

Well, and for us, like every, we spent almost every Friday night, we had a group of friends that would come over and play poker and it usually ended with us just being bored. And there was no winner. We just ended up doing something crazy, like, Oh, I’m going all in. Um, just cause we wanted to do something else just because we wanted to go drink and smoke cigars on the back porch.

Like that’s really my rating. So for me, like drinking has always been extremely social. Like, I’m not someone that drinks that often by themselves though during COVID, I’ve driven more by myself. I usually do because I’m in COVID everyone

Andrew: in the nation that drinks has drank more than they normally,

Josh: but also the other part was I fell in love with bourbon right before Covitz started.

So like, Last August, September, right. Um, and a good bourbon. One glass of good bourbon is fantastic, but, um, so it’s always been extremely social for me drinking, um, and some of my best conversations I’ve ever had, um, in, you know, kind of discovering ourselves or understanding God better or having conversations about callings and all those kinds of things happened over, um, sitting on the back porch, smoking a cigar and drinking.

Yeah. And that type of beer. Um,

Andrew: yeah, it’s funny men. I, um, you say smoking cigar, that is, uh, that’s something that I just can’t really touch anymore. Like I, so I, um, When I was like, I think I was 17. I got a job. No, I was, I had to be 18, almost 19, got a job, um, mowing and trimming, uh, at a cemetery in Zanesville, Ohio.

And it was dude, it was really fun to actually, um, kind of creepy, really fun, like salt of the earth people I was working with. But yeah. Everybody. I worked with either, uh, smoked cigarettes or dip and I didn’t really get why, you know, it was like, what the heck are you doing? And then I did the job for like three weeks and I’m like, I’m so bored of mowing trimming.

I’m like, I’m going to pick up a candidate, you know? And I just started doing it as like doing something and then. Pretty quick, man. I was like, just totally hooked on it. Um, and then honestly, off and on for years it was like, I’d quit. It would take all this effort. Then there would be some occasion where I started up again.

So for me tobacco, I don’t tobacco hasn’t really ever been the thing that I’ve viewed as sinful around it has been hiding it, um, because of. I’ve hit it, uh, when it was, when I was doing it. So, um, that’s the thing that was sinful, but it’s like, it didn’t, it only would alter your state for like the first, the very early phase.

You’d feel like some sort of buzz almost from the, the nicotine. And that was like very early on, but then. Pretty quick after that, it was only like to not have a headache, you know, it wasn’t like it altered your personality. It wasn’t like it altered. Yeah. We felt anything like that. It was just like, yeah, I’m staving off a headache.

It’s not going to come because I’m doing this step or whatever. Um, but yeah, for me, that’s one of those things, like I just can’t. And I don’t really have a desire for a cigar, but I just can’t open that door, you know, it’s just in the past for me. So,

Josh: yeah,

Andrew: that’s fine.

Josh: And I think that brings up a good point.

Like whether we’re talking about alcohol, we’re talking about smoking or we’re talking about, uh, the herb Derbe, um, I’m just gonna keep calling it. Cause I think it’s funny, like addiction is a real thing, right? Like, and at that point, I think you’re walking into sin. When you let anything control you.

That’s not Jesus. I’m like you’re living in sin at that point. Um, so I think you’d have to be careful of all those things in drinking and smoking and, um, and marijuana use. Um, I don’t know enough about where marijuana to say it’s addictive or not addictive. I know there’s studies on both sides, but, um, I think it’s one of the things that like, if you, if, if you think that you absolutely need it.

Yeah. I’m like you can’t live without it. Like that’s some form of addiction, right. And it’s destructive to your life. Like that’s an addiction. Like I could even, you could even say, you know, prescription medication is the same thing. Totally scripture medication can take you down those same roads that would lead to sin.

Now with. Like, I dunno, we get into the marijuana conversation. Like yes, weed is everywhere. We see it, especially, you know, for me, I’m here in Colorado. It’s been legalized for year years. Um, we see recreational marijuana places throughout the state, not in all counties, but in a fair amount of them.

Andrew: Uh, well, that’s becoming the norm across the nation, man, I think 10 years.

And it’ll probably be pretty much every state has.

Josh: Before that it was black and white, right? Like as followers of Jesus, we, we obey the laws of the land as long as they don’t violate God’s commands. Um, and. The law of the land was you don’t smoke weed. It’s, it’s, it’s a crime. Um, so we avoided that. Well, now that we’re in this weird gray area, like, is it sin as a non sin, then it gets really weird.

And, and the thing that I don’t know enough about marijuana, like, I don’t, I won’t say have a stance for it or against it. I’m just going to lean against it because it seems safer, um, in terms of avoiding sin, but. Like the, the thing with marijuana is, I don’t know when you become intoxicated and that’s really the only thing we can compare it to.

Right. It’s drunkenness that we see with alcohol is really the only thing we can compare because scripture and speak about marijuana and they pull out those verses like anything that comes from the land is of God. You sure. To some extent, but sugar comes from the land and that’s going to kill you. So like

Andrew: when you’re in Quito, like you,

Josh: like, I don’t know about that.

So I, uh, I think because you can become intoxicated much quicker, that’s when we avoid it, because if I can’t have clear thoughts, um, and I don’t have control over my mind anymore. Um, now I’m in a rough spot. Like at that point, this isn’t gonna look good.

Andrew: You know, so I have smoked weed. Um, not when I was in Colorado, actually just, uh, like my friends know all my friends.

It’s been years and years. Um, all my friends in high school. I think every one of my best friends went through a major stoner phase, um, in high school. And, uh, it’s still, I tried it multiple times and I had like a couple fun experiences where it was like very fun, but dude, Oh, sorry. Bumped my mic. But I’ve had a lot, like many more experiences that were just like hyper paranoia.

Um, just in my head, like thinking a million miles an hour, like figuring out the most complex conspiracy theory possible, you know? And, uh, and just, uh, it’s just very weird, you know, but it is like, it is something that takes your focus off of like normal life and puts it on. I don’t know. I’m you are on some abstract idea.

But I don’t think none of the times I, I smoked the herb. Um, did I ever, uh, feel like it put my focus right on God. And again, I’m not an expert on that. Um, but I, I think there’s something too calling, uh, alcohol spirits, like people call liquor spirits, you know? Um, and I don’t have any great thinking on this, but I just, I guess as I think about, uh, Pot or the herb?

Um, it’s like, it is kind of a spirit in and of itself. Not necessarily spirit as like an ethical spirit, but it, uh, has a unique effect on people compared to whiskey or, um, vodka or a beer or a glass of wine or whatever else, you know, like it, it definitely has an effect and I don’t know. I don’t know. I think if it’s taking your, uh, worship, which is maybe, maybe we should define what worship is, but maybe like a, and I’m not going to look it up, but maybe if it’s taking like the thing you’re most focused on and shifting that away from anytime, you’d be focused on God and putting it on something else.

Maybe that’s like, you’re worshiping something else, you know? And you shouldn’t be,

Josh: yeah. That’s comes to the addiction piece too, right? Like. Yeah. And there’s, this is anything like food can be my addiction or my coping mechanism that keeps me from dealing with my issues or causing me to, to go down these trails that are away from Jesus.

Right? Like it could be almost anything. Um, I don’t know if I have a real strong opinion on marijuana or not marijuana. Um, I think you’re in gray area and maybe it wasn’t always gray, but it’s gray now whether we want to accept that truth or not, um, And I think it’s worth like it it’s worth you digging into it.

Like, if you’re like, well, I want to smoke weed. Like, why do you want to smoke weed? What, what are you really looking to pull out of that? Um, and I know there’s, there’s medical, there’s, you know, scientifically medical proven reasons to, to smoke marijuana, um, or to ingest it, I should say probably not smoke it.

Cause I know doctor’s going to tell you, smoking is good for you, but um, no matter what you’re smoking. Um, so I, I. I could go either way. Um, like I have issues with prescription medication as well and how the reliance that we have on uncertain, depression, drugs, and those kinds of things like, um, yeah, I understand you need it, um, to some extent, but there’s a high level of addiction attached to it.

And now you’re in this weird place of, do you really need there? You just believe you need it. And now your body’s. Craving it because you’ve convinced yourself that it’s the same thing with marijuana, right? You really need it. Right. Does your body just, you know, it’s gotten to a place where it’s believed that it Def desperately needs it.

And now you’re in that cycle of that. I’m taking your focus away from, from Jesus, but

Andrew: there are so many pills out there that are insanely addictive in that the companies that produce them no are insanely addictive and they do it on purpose. And. Not that, that relieves all responsibility off the people who are super addicted to them.

But, but to me, that’s really messed up. And I, that just, that bugs me, that it’s like, you know, we got this product and that’s. True of tobacco companies too. You know, we’ve got this product that we know you’re going to be super hooked on Coca-Cola same thing, caffeine, you know, you’re going to be so hooked on it on the sugar, on the Coke, uh, on the caffeine, on the nicotine, on the Xanax, whatever it is that.

Yes, that’s the messed up part. That’s the most messed up part is somebody like out there actively marketing and pushing it when they know how maybe there’s better ways to get that caffeine or that nicotine or that, whatever, you know, um, way better ways. And, uh, I don’t know. That’s messed up to me

Josh: just for the bottom dollar, right?

It’s about making money. Yeah, unfortunately.

Andrew: Yeah,

Josh: yeah. Yeah. I think. No matter what it is, whether it’s one of these three things or something else, like if you don’t have the ability to give it up for a season, um, I think there’s some concerns on that. Like, you know, um, when I fast, like I’m fasting from these things as well, because like one, you don’t want to be drinking on an empty stomach.

Drunkenness comes much quicker at that point. Um, you know, even with, with cigars, which I, you know, smoke cigars from time to time, you know, with friends, um, Like, even with that on an empty stomach, like that’s going to create some bad experiences for you. Um, I think you just have to do your own research and really dig into these things.

And you know, for me, I’ve never smoked. Um, I’ve never smoked marijuana either. Um, and mainly because I just watched, you know, my brother got in a lot of trouble for it in the middle of the middle school, which is always mind boggling to me. He was growing his own plants, like super entrepreneurial for a seventh and eighth grader.

Uh, but like watched him like get busted by my parents and just everything that came along with that. So I’ve always avoided it. Um, cause I just didn’t want to go down those roads. Um, And then, you know, with, with smoking, I’ve never, I’ve never really smoked cigarettes either, mainly because like I’ve watched family members struggle with trying to quit and, um, just the, the highly addictive nature of it.

Uh, I’ve always, never

Andrew: liked cigarettes. I had them, uh, in high school, like I didn’t buy them, but friends would have them and to be like, okay, I’ll have a, we call them sicker dues. And we lead with Sigur don’ts

Yeah. And, uh, yeah, dude, they like the next day, when you smell your clothes, it’s just like, Oh,

Josh: that’s so bad. I fill it with coffee. Yeah. Yeah. Like spending time in a coffee shop and the next day smells like old cigarettes to me. Like you go to wash your hair in the morning and you’re like, ah, it’s like cold cigarette.

It’s disgusting. It’s funny.

Andrew: You just offended so many more people with that,

Josh: dude.

Andrew: How do we be? How do we be wise about it? Because I think especially with, uh, alcohol, um, you and I are both kind of. Moderate. So it’s okay to drink. Um, and you’re not supposed to get drunk. That is a sin. Bible’s really clear on that in a lot of places, I don’t have any, uh, references pulled up, but there’s a lot times when it is very clear, um, that Jesus is not about not cool with drunkenness.

Um, so. But how do we be Wyatt’s about it, like practically say, say you’re turning 21 next month. How will, what’s your guidance?

Josh: I think with all three of these things, um, I think it’s important just in general, um, that we should have moralized them. Like alcohol is neither good, nor bad. Um, you can do good things with it.

You can do bad things with it. Um, it doesn’t really have a position or a moral. Position, I guess is a better way cigarettes, the same thing, granted, you know, they are shown to cause cancer. You probably don’t want to go down those roads, but I’m not going to say that they’re sinful in and of themselves and I’m not going to say weed is sinful in and of itself.

Um, but I also put that with a caveat saying, I don’t really know, or have done research in the weed. I just don’t really go down those roads. Yeah. Um, but like with alcohol, like there is a clear line, right? It’s drunkenness. Now you have the argument, um, from a lot of people that said, well, You don’t know when you’re drunk, when you’re not drunk, so just avoid it all together.

And I get that argument and that’s fine. And if you, you make the decision of I’m not going to drink, let’s just not my thing. That’s awesome. That’s great. That’s, that’s your decision, but to say that’s your decision, and then you say everyone that does do it though, is sinful. Like that’s rattled problem because it’s not, that’s not true.

No, no scripture. Um, supports that, that stains scripture does support the sense of drunkenness. And I can tell when I’m buzzing, I can tell when I’m drunk. Granted, I haven’t been drunk since high school, but, um, like I know the lines, um, and you, you avoid those lines and, you know, if it’s one beer, it’s one beer.

Um, and I know that’s my line. Like if it’s one glass of bourbon, I know it’s one glass of bourbon and that’s my line. Um, and if I can’t give it up, then I have a real problem, but

Andrew: yeah, that’s

Josh: not my issue. Um, and I think with, with cigarettes, um, I’m not going to say they’re sinful or not sinful, but from a standpoint of like destruction, like destructive to your life, they’re highly destructive.

That’s proven by science, even those that smoke. It’s going to tell you it’s highly destructive. Um, And it’s a, you know, do you want that kind of destruction in your life? And, um, you know, if you’re a teenager and you think it’s cool and this is the route you’re going down, like I’m telling you, I know a lot of people that, that thought it was cool too, and started smoking in high school or chewing in high school.

And, and now they don’t know how to stop. Right. They’ve tried multiple times and they can’t get away from that addiction. Why would you ever want to have something control you like that? So avoid it altogether. Like I get it, um, same with alcohol. Like if you can drink. In a moderate fashion, in a social, you know, in a social environment, then don’t drink.

Right. Um, and the other part, it was like with all of these things, like if my drink is going to cause you to stumble are going to cause issue for you, then I’m not going to drink in front of you. Like that’s not loving you as Christ called me to love you. If I’m going to be tempting you with this thing that you shouldn’t be tempted with.

Cause you know where you got, right. Um, You know, it was just kind of one of those things. And, you know, I have, I have, you know, alcoholism that runs in my family. Um, it’s one of the reasons my mom, um, didn’t really drink, um, you know, through my growing up years, um, because her, her dad was a high, you know, heavy alcoholic and, um, you know, the pain that, that costs you if we did it.

Um, and she reminds me on a regular basis cause she knows I drink bourbon. Um, of, you know, you have alcohol isn’t that runs in your blood and 100%. And if it ever came to that point, like. We’d we’d we’d, we’d be cutting out very quickly. The second time I felt a hint of any of that. Um, but I don’t, so I think you’ll be extremely careful.

You’re just turning 21. Um, I don’t honestly think that the whole being drunk is a great experience. Um, there’s definitely parts of being drunk when I was in high school that I don’t remember. Um, and for my personality type, that feels extremely out of control and probably why I avoid all those things since those moments.

But, um, like. It may feel fun in the moment, but there’s always going to be, um, consequences on the other side and consequences you’re going to have to deal with. And, um, you never want to get to a place where you can’t control something like you have no self control anymore. Uh, no matter what, that’s, something may be like, you’ve gotta be paying attention.

Um, so I think have conversations with people around you get their viewpoints and why did they have that viewpoint? Um, you know, what would you know. I think for me, like there’s a lot of things that I do to push against what people believe. To be more of the worms. Yeah. Right. Like, yeah. So I do things because I know that you’re not going to like them

Andrew: necessarily, like when you at streaky streaky stadium,

Josh: soccer stadium a couple of weeks ago, um, which was weird.

Cause like the soccer stadium was empty still. I just ran through like, yeah, it was, yeah. That’s the only time I was going to do it. Like I’m going to do it with people around that’s embarrassing. It was cold outside. Just kidding. We won’t go down that road. I apologize. Um, so like have conversations about it, be open and honest about it.

I think when we demonize these things, if we’re talking to parents, like we demonize some of these things and now it’s like this child that’s in their teenage years and just wants to have their own identity and push back against some things, um, are going to try these things and go down these roads and, you know, One thing we know as followers of Jesus, that we obey the laws of the land.

That’s the command that Christ gave us, um, that we are subject to governing authorities. So, um, as long as they’re not in violation of God’s truth, um, then at that point we were going to pay them. So if you’re under 21 years old in the United States, at this point, you can’t smoke weed, you can’t smoke cigarettes and you can’t drink.

Andrew: Yeah. Oh, that’s crazy. I forgot. They made the, the age 21

Josh: recently instituted. All right. Before, right when COBIT started, it was like, that is crazy.

Andrew: Totally forgot that. But yeah, man, it is, um, it is like, there are some clear lines, like, uh, if you know, somebody who’s really struggling with one of those things and you do it in front of them, then yeah, man, that’s being that is not

Josh: selfish.

That’s there’s so many things.

Andrew: Yeah, you’re tempting somebody you’re like at like dangling it, you know? Yeah. But, uh, I don’t know, man, but aside from that, it’s just moderation be wised. Um, and again, I don’t know much about weed, so this is much more tobacco or alcohol.

Josh: Yeah.

Andrew: Uh, moderation be wise. Don’t, don’t rush into it.

Don’t try to do it to look cool because it’s, it’s not that cool. You know? Um, I think. I think a glass of red wine with a steak is like amazing. You know, it’s like the best combination. Um, but you only get that if you understand kind of the moderation of it and not the I’m going to go crazy on this, I want to be blackout.

I want to forget stuff, all of that, you know?

Josh: Well, and like, if that’s where you’re at too, that’s where you find yourself. Um, yo, I want to start drinking now. Maybe you haven’t drunk your whole life. You know, now you’re in your mid twenties and you’re like, um, I want to drink, why do you want to drink? Like what what’s behind that decision?

Like you’ve gone, you know, multiple years at this point and not drunk. Um, and you’ve been legally allowed to. W why, why are you choosing to do it now? Like dig into that. I get down to the motive of it, of like, are you depressed? Are you frustrated? Do you feel extremely stressed? And you think these are going to calm you down or, or ease that stress.

Like, that’s not a reason to get ended to anything, let alone write into one of these things. Um, But like, I think motivation is, is key to everything that we do. Um, not just these three things is what’s the real motivation behind it. Like what are you trying to get to the root of? And, um, you know, I think of like, I know individuals that are on.

S, you know, uh, THC CBD stuff for anxiety and it’s legitimate, and they’ve tried all the other prescription drugs, and this is the thing that keeps them level. Um, and doesn’t have the same side effects or control that maybe the other drugs, prescription drugs that they had had. I, I, it’s hard to argue with that, um, that if this is the thing, that’s leveling them out and they need that, um, because of certain brain chemistry, um, Like, is that better than Zola often?

And these other big ones? I think

Andrew: so. I think it is. Yeah, definitely.

Josh: So that’s hard and CBD by itself, like that is proven to have, um, regeneration effects and, and all of those types of things. Like that’s proven by science. It doesn’t have THC in it. Um, the church has probably pretty, pretty hesitant cause it’s connected to marijuana and we’re just 100% against marijuana.

Um, but yeah, I think. I think CBD is, there’s no issue with that at all, but

Andrew: yeah, it’s, uh, I don’t have like a super passionate stance on all of this, as you probably can tell. It’s not like the thing I wake up and think I’m going to crusade against that. I’m going to focus on that. I’m going to come convert people to Jesus with that.

But, um,

Josh: but I do enjoy it’s like you’re saying, you’re like, Oh, I brought like 17 people to Jesus overjoyed.

Andrew: Wait how’d you do it? Uh, we were in a circle and we were passing

Josh: so many questions. Um,

Andrew: no, but, um, but I do think it’s something that when you get to the point of addiction or reliance on any of these substances, it can, it can definitely weakened.

Your connection with Jesus. Um, yeah, like it can kind of diminish that voice of the

Josh: Holy spirit

Andrew: speaking to you, or it can replace it or just make it a little more dim, uh, in your life. And I don’t think that’s good by any means. I think that like the Bible is clear. Drunkenness is sin. If you’re serving another spirit, that’s the sin.

You’re worshiping something. That’s not God, that’s a sin. Um, and yeah, man, it’s just. I wouldn’t wish it on anybody, uh, including an enemy. Not that I have a great enemy. Um,

Josh: and you don’t have a great enemy?

Andrew: No, I don’t really have another thing I’d like to

Josh: do you have like 15 crap, crazy. Like, I don’t know what to do with them.

Yeah. Well, like I bet your seasons in my life where you’re like, Holy crap. I really have an enemy right now, right now.

Andrew: Yeah. It’d be kinda cool to have an archenemy where it’s like the main focus. If your life is just like, I’m going to break down their empire and they’re like, I’m going to break down your empire.

And like, you know, like, uh, like the British and Scottish back in the day, just totally archenemies

Josh: that’s like your goal in life, or like, I just want to be in something or send by. Well, that’s the reality of like, I was just reading a book called everything is AFT, uh, it’s a book on hope. Uh, but he’s talking about

Andrew: fun fund

Josh: honor.

Well, it’s really spelled F. Um, asterick CK. So I don’t know what that actually spells, but that’s what it’s called. Yeah. Um, yeah, it’s not a, it’s not a Christian book for those listening. And if you are a Christian and your faith is not strong, it’s going to test him some of those things. So we recommend it all the time.

But, um, he, he comes from this perspective of a religion and he defines religion as any type of ideology. So like being a Republican is some form of religion and I’m really it’s. I have a belief in a hope. Uh, that once this, we get to this place, everything’s going to be better. And he argues through all these things.

Um, and I think, and one of the things he says, this is why I bring it up is, um, We have to grow out, draw these lines in the sand. Like it’s the one thing that keeps our followers towards us. If we can define the enemy, this is nothing new that we’re talking about, but that was interesting. So we’ll go down this road, but we have to be able to find our enemy.

And when I define the enemy and then it actually consolidates my believers. So my followers around me, um, so we see inside of religion, this constant need of, I’m gonna have to find the enemy. That’s the enemy, he’s evil, he’s doing sinful things. So he’s evil. Um, it’s actually a tactic to actually keep your followers close to you.

It’s a controlling mechanism. Um, and in all reality, as followers of Jesus, there is evil in the world. That’s why we call him Satan and all the work that, that him and his, his demons do. You know, that’s a real enemy. It’s a spiritual enemy. Um, But in this world, we really have enemies. Like I think we call things more enemy to consolidate our friends, to consolidate our, our followers, to consolidate our churches or whatever.

We, um, as long as they have something to focus on, they’re going to be focused on it together. Right. And I think there’s this, I don’t know. There’s an extremely high level of unhealth that exists in. Cold people are enemies, but

Andrew: yeah. Okay. So if, if he’s saying like the cynical view of like religion, all religions is defining your inner enemies so that you can keep your people close and like locked in.

And in this belief system, dude, what is, um, as you think about like following Jesus in the day to day life, what is the goal? Is it is the goal of following Jesus day to day. And. Thinking of, of his teachings when you’re about to have a second or third or fourth glass of bourbon, not you necessarily just in this example, um, if you’re like, if you’re thinking of his teachings and you’re trying to apply them in your life, not just in drinking, but in your everyday life, what is the goal?

You know, not the cynical view of thinking all about enemies and keeping people controlled. What’s the goal like. Why should we think about Jesus in our day to day and his teachings and his example?

Josh: Um, well, I think comes back to the great commandments. So we said before, like the ultimate goal is that we love God enough people.

I think why he wants it. That to be the ultimate goal is that we’re, that’s where we find true happiness. That’s where we find joy. That’s where we find peace. And that’s where we find a hope that we can actually put our faith in. Um, like when I’m in line, With Jesus and I’m seeking Jesus and I’m loving Jesus.

I’m spending time with Jesus. There’s a level of competence that I now function inside of and a high level of faith that I function inside of in him. Um, that, that I look at life and said, there’s nothing that the life gets thrown on me. That’s going to derail this. Like, no matter how ugly or hard or things, how difficult things get like Jesus is still Jesus and Jesus has stolen a throne.

So I’m still good. Like. Um, you know, he’s still in control in the midst of all this, and it’s the same with loving people. Like, you know, uh, science now shows this like when we love and sacrifice for others, um, we show gratitude for others. Like we live in a higher level of hope and happiness than those that don’t.

So like when we give our time, we give our energy, we give our money to others. That’s proven to show, um, that you live at a higher level of happiness or contentment is probably a better way to put it. Um, now this is a core part of our faith, and this is why it’s a core fiber part of our faith. And now science is catching up to that to say, Oh yeah, like there’s something to this there’s this is how you do good.

And this is, yeah. So like, it could be selfish. It could like, from a self perspective, why I want to feel these things. So I’m going to do these things. Um, I think with selfishness, it starts to muddy some waters, but yeah, like if science is saying this and Jesus has been saying this since the first century and the church has been, or the Jeet, God has been saying this since the beginning of time, um, that when we sacrifice and love those around us, we have a higher level of contentment, excitement, and joy inside of this life because we’re essentially giving ourselves away.

Um, and then same thing with. With Jesus. I live with a higher level of faith and confidence that he is who he said, he, he was, he did what he said he was going to do. And any promise that he’s made, he is going to fulfill because he’s a man that fulfills his promises, right? Like he is a promise keeper. So I think that’s the goal.

Andrew: That’s good, man. And I, I think a lot of people maybe grew up with the view from church of like, I’m going to follow Jesus. I’m going to live by the rules. The Bible sets out all of that, because if I do, then I have a ticket into heaven, you know, like it’s my. I’m going to live this way on earth and I’m going to live kind of on the line.

I’m going to just not do enough bad stuff so that I still get that ticket and get in st. Peter, you know, sings me into the pearly Gates, um, or whatever. But, uh, but man, I think about, uh, do this last week, um, like George Floyd killed murdered on tape. Tons of people watching. What does a murder look like happens to be a white cop black guy?

I don’t know the whole story. I don’t know what happened, but I do know we saw a cop kill a guy and, and we saw, um, we’re seeing still our nation rage and like burning cities, peaceful protests, violent protests, a lot of outrage, a lot of stances taken and, uh, and men. If I’m just in my faith for just this quick ticket of like, I just need to do just enough, right?

Just enough. Good. Just enough, just close enough to the commandment that I can get a kind of ticket, a stamp, uh, into heaven then that’s, that’s not super motivating to me, you know, not that you said that’s what, what the goal is, but, but if I’m looking around and I’m like, The kingdom of heaven is here and now, and today.

And I’m a part of it because I’m a follower of Jesus

Josh: and a representation of it. Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. I’m a, not a gatekeeper. I’m an ambassador of it, you know? And, uh, so if I step into this protest, how do I look different? Um, not, not, how do I look different to make a sale, but how do I, how is my spirit different within me?

How am I. I’m at peace with the world. That’s raging around me. How am I? I’m concerned for my fellow man in a way. That’s right. But not a, I don’t know, but not, but not thinking, okay. What’s the rule here because I feel like alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, all these things that, you know, um, our Catholic friends have called vices for years and years.

Um, all these things like. They can be pretty quick to just be a rule. But, um, if you’re looking through this life with the lens of like, I’m in the kingdom of heaven here and now, and it’ll look different after I’m dead, it’ll look different then. But, well, my goal isn’t just to get to dead so I can be in heaven.

My goal is to like live in the kingdom and bring as many people into it as I can and look more like Jesus every day up at, um, Then I think you just start taking a different stance on these things or not, not having a cigarette is not a Hill I’m going to die on in Jesus name, like telling somebody if you do that, you’re going to burn in hell.

No, I don’t believe that, man. Um, I don’t believe it’s good to be addicted to tobacco. Um, but I don’t believe that I’m sure there’s plenty of people who are addicted to tobacco when they died that are going to be with Jesus and have it. Um, I don’t think it’s something that fully disqualifies people. So I don’t know.

That’s, that’s kind of conflated and, uh, just going fast, but I dunno that all kind of spring to mind, as you were talking about what is the goal? Not, not who’s the enemy, but what’s the goal

Josh: of living this way. Yeah. And the, and you know, we have plenty of verses that we live for the next life. And, um, you know, we do things in this life, um, to receive reward and the next and that isn’t necessarily, we’re talking about this type.

If things, if I’m going to, if I have boy avoid the herb, then I’m going to have a bigger mansion in heaven. I don’t think that’s what he’s talking about. I think he’s talking about what you’re talking about of like, how are you expanding the kingdom in this life? Or how are you being a part of that Jesus experience, but how are you a part of that and how are you loving those around you in such a way that Jesus would love them?

Um, and how would you love God in such a way, um, that would draw you closer to him in a community and in relationship with him. Um, those are the types of things that are going to create treasures in heaven. That’s what we’re chasing for. And, and for so long, that was always the end goal is like you come to know Jesus for.

For the next life. Well, like it’s not just the next life. It’s the life that starts today. Like your new creation now. So live inside that now. And, um, as, as a new creation of this world, you have powers and you have the access that you didn’t have to before, like the Lord of heaven and earth, Jesus Christ now resides inside of you through the Holy spirit and all power that was given to him is now been given to you.

So what are you going to do with that power? Um, are you going to do it to bring more kingdom to earth and see lives transformed and changed by the gospel? By what true love really means? Or are you going to take that and become selfish with it? If it was just for me, I’m just going to take it for myself.

So I’m secure. Um, but. After the rest of you like me, not my table.

Andrew: I’m just going to take enough of it. So I get in and I’m not going to think about anybody else cause that’s complicated and hard. And I don’t know for sure. I just want to get it

Josh: for sure. It’s complicated and hard. Like I was working with core values today and one of those core values was we struggled for family.

Um, Because like, we, we really do like, yeah. Having a family is a struggle. Um, you know, there’s also a piece of it. Well, there’s should be a piece of it that you belong no matter what. Um, but the other side of it, like it’s a struggle to live in unity with people because you’re going to disagree on things.

You’re going to disagree on important things. And how do you continue to. Move in the same direction still though, you disagree on those things. Like there’s going to be people that push back against our views on alcohol. They’re going to push back on what we said about cigarettes and about weed that, you know, they’re gonna come back and say, there’s no gray area.

It’s black and white weeds of sin. Um, well, how do we disagree in those moments? And we both look at scripture, we’re both looking at the recorded word of God saying, you know, you’re making one conclusion, I’m making another, neither of them is really sin. Um, so how do we, how do we reconcile that and continue to love each other and work together?

Like, I think that’s a bigger piece. I think that’s what family looks like. Is, are we working together for a greater good?

Andrew: Yeah, I think you’re totally right. And, uh, And I think that the gut reaction of weed is a sin and should never be touched. And you’re going to go to hell if you, if you do. I think that’s maybe like the sin of the day.

Um, if you know what I mean, like maybe the sin of this hundred years, um, or one of the sins of this hundred years that people label with that black and white label, because dude, when Jesus was living, breathing, um, I hope I don’t botch this story, but, but he walked up and there was a woman who had been caught in adultery.

Um, and he walked onto the scene as she was about to be stoned, um,

Josh: adultery different Gastone though, we’re talking about actual rocks and stuff.

Andrew: Yeah. They had like grapefruit sized rocks and they were about to start throwing them and pelting her to death. Uh, cause when you got caught in adultery, At least if you’re a woman, then, uh, you got stoned to death, which is like a horrible way to die.

Um, so that’s about to happen

Josh: and you could have survived to like Paul. Oh, that sounds more miserable.

Andrew: Yeah, that does sound bad. But yeah, and some, they say something like, teacher, what do you say about this? Uh, or maybe he just walks in and stands kind of between what’s about to happen. And, uh, and he starts writing stuff in the stand.

And, uh, and says at some point after he’s been re writing things in the stand and obviously making a scene to where they didn’t start stoning this lady, um, he says, Hey, let, uh, let whoever doesn’t have any sin, be the one to throw the first stone. Um, and starting with the oldest and ending with the youngest that we’re about through those stones, they walked away.

Now did he write down sins that like affected them? That that was their personal thing that they thought nobody knew about? Maybe? Um, I don’t know. I don’t know what he wrote, but, uh, in the same way that drugs or alcohol, depending on your stance may be the biggest thing or a huge thing. Or maybe, maybe it’s Democrat versus Republican or white versus black or it’s, whatever it is.

I just invite you to say if there’s one thing that you’re like, if you do that, Jesus has grace can’t help you. Um, I don’t know. I invite you to examine that, you know, a little bit, uh, because

Josh: what already exist. It’s not even like, I invite you to look at it, like, yeah. You got to deal with that. Um, because there’s nothing in this side of heaven that can keep you away from the grace of Jesus Christ.

Like his grace was more power. His sacrifice, I should say is more powerful, greater than any sin that this world can throw at it. Know how ugly, disruptive, or despicable that sin may be. Jesus’ sacrifice was greater than it, period. Um, and if you think that otherwise you’re 100% wrong and scripture would tell you that over and over again.

Andrew: Yeah. And Jesus showed us that over and over again. He took the things in society that were held up as the most bad and just rip them to pieces, um, and forgave people, you know, what did he say to that lady afterwards? Um, do you remember at the end of the story, just go and send no more

Josh: when the accusers heard this, this is right after he wrote.

Whatever he wrote in the sand. They slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, probably as he was riding them. They’re like recognizing, Oh shoot, he’s talking to me and I’m out. But we don’t know for sure until Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with a woman, Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, where are your accusers?

Don’t didn’t even one of them condemn you. No Lord. She said, and Jesus said, neither do I go and sin no more. That’s awesome. Yeah, I think like we take those verses as the church and, and correcting sinful behaviors important. Um, and conflict is important and confronting sin is important. I’m not downplaying any of those things.

Um, but I think we need to look at, in the context of what we’re were just talking about, um, like, you know, um, Paul tells us, like, take the log out of your own eye before you take the speck out of somebody. Else’s like, I think we’re so quick to call something sin. And we’re so quick to attack in the midst of that because it’s the right thing to do or whatever.

Um, you know, we want to jump behind, um, that we miss, like. The level of anger and hatred that you’re functioning inside of to attack that sin is much more sinful because you’re not loving as Christ loved. You’re not trying to, um, help that individual find freedom. Again, you just want to condemn them. One, you feel better for yourself.

Who knows too, to try to control that person. I’m like, there’s so many other reasons that play into that. I think it’s extremely important that you take the step back, step back in the midst of those things and say, what do I need to take out of my own heart? And am I approaching this in great love for that individual?

Am my approaching this to be right. My approach in this, because I need to have an enemy who am I approaching this? And the enemy could be the action. I might not be the person I’m like, what’s the real motivation behind it. Like, what’s the sin I need to deal with. Um, so you can help them deal with their own sin because in all reality, like if I come in Andrew, say you’re.

You’re you’re having an affair. Um, and I come to you with great anger. Um, and I say, you’re, you’re an F an idiot. Like what kind of moron would do such a thing to his wife? Like how dare you be, do something so stupid? Like, what’s your first response? Well, most people’s first response is going to be, um, are you gonna attack?

I’m going to defend myself. I’m not going to think about my sin in this moment. Like FIU I’m coming at you now. But if I came to you say Andrew, like, like what happened, dude? Yeah. Like how, how did, how did we get to this place? Like what happened along the way that now we’re. Now, now here at this place, you had been unfaithful to your wife and the destruction that that’s called.

That brings a completely different response from you in that moment, right? Like I’m showing compassion and care because I understand in all reality, I could be there just like you are. Um, but in this moment, they’re back away. Let’s just make that super clear Jana. Your husband is faithful. He would tell me if he wasn’t and then I kick his ass.

Um, I wouldn’t take my own advice right now in this moment. Um, but right. Like the goal is that they turn from the sin. The goal is, is that they fall in love with Jesus and recognize the destruction that the sins caused, how I approach that matters how I approach that is going to dictate what’s going to happen next.

And I play a major role in that. And I think if you come at it from the. Perspective, I’m going to attack. I’m going to cause harm. And maybe you’re not thinking that, but your actions are causing it. I think you’re 100% in sin and you need to repent as well. And I think you’re going to be held accountable for that one day.

You stand before Jesus, they’re going to say you’re wrong. Like that was sin. You die. You destroyed that individual. And they continued on that path because you chose not to love at that moment and show compassion in that moment and look at the woman like Jesus looked at that woman said sin no more like there’s no one here to condemn you.

I don’t

Andrew: condemn you either. I could, I don’t, uh, now go and send no more, you know, that’s, it’s beautiful thing. And that’s, that’s looking at it through this understanding of what sin is from your own experience, you know, hope for sure. I’ve been that person sending in whatever way. Um, where, where somebody came to me, I told them, I said my deepest, darkest thing, and they didn’t say.

Yeah, well, Jesus hates you because of that. So get out of, you know, like it was like, and I’ve never had that happen, but, um,

Josh: any new friends age? No, man. It only said that once, like, come on, don’t hold it against me.

Andrew: That’s right. No, it’s it’s people who understand their sin and their own life when you go to them and they, they treat you with that place of.

Yeah, let’s get through this, this, you need grace, you need forgiveness. And I want to see you repent from this. That’s the people that you need to go to. And that’s the people we got to be is like radically different, not a, not a caught you. And I’m going to hold this over your head, but like, I’m going to walk with you through this and we’re going to get to repentance and it’s going to be different.

You know, you’re going to turn away from your sin and do it no more. And I’ll

Josh: even go this far. Like yeah. Yeah. You know, if your spouse is in the midst of sin, if your child’s in the midst of sin, if your best friend is in the midst of sin and you feel betrayed, you feel whatever your primary emotion is, anger, you are not the person to confront the sin.

Hmm. Like, sorry. Like you can’t do it with a level head. You can’t do it without, you know, before you remove the, the, the, the, uh, Log from your own eyes, like you’re going to cause more destruction. You’re going to cause more sin. Sorry. Like maybe even to the person of authority, but you can’t get to that place where you’re going to show compassion and love.

Well, always through that situation, then you’re not the person to confront the sin. Because you’re not going to do it in the way that Jesus did it. You’re not going to do it in a way that’s actually going to help and get that person to repent and turn from that sin. You’re only going to cause destruction to make it worse.

Um, so you got to check your own motives. If you’re on the other side of it, I’m looking at sin saying like, what do I do in this moment? Like if you can’t show compassion, you can’t look at yourself and say, man, I could so easily be exactly where that person is. There’s no humility from that perspective, then you’re not the person.

Yeah. Like you’ve got to find somebody else.

Andrew: Yeah, you’re right. And, uh, man, I know we gotta wrap pretty quick, but I, um, as I think about it, uh, it just struck me that maybe for a lot of people listening or a couple of people or one person or something, um, they’re in the place where they, they took, um, their sin and they confessed to somebody and got just the, the reaction that Jesus would not give, you know, the opposite, um, in that moment.

Um, and. And, or woman, I just want to tell you, I’m sorry that happened. Um, I want to ask you to like, Go and read that story about Jesus’ writing on the ground. Um, the story about the woman who had committed adultery, go and read the story about Jesus with the woman at the well also adultery. Um, but, um, just examine the stories of Jesus.

Just read Matthew, listen to Matthew, listen to it 10 times. Um, and then Mark, then Luke, then John and all the other stuff, but read the new Testament, listen to it and say, Just, just give Jesus a chance and give Jesus followers a chance because we’re not perfect. Um, or far from it. That’s why we need Jesus because we need him.

I need him every day. Um, many times a day. And, um, I don’t know if you got hurt by somebody when you tried to confess, I’m sorry that that happened to you. I just want you to look at the person who this is all about. Jesus, you know, God’s son, um, examine the things that, that the record of the Bible says that you did and didn’t do and say, do I want to know that guy?

Do you want him to be like that guy? Do you want him to be in relationship with them? If so, then. Can take the next right step and following him. And, uh, and I’m sorry for the bad experience that, uh, somebody who said they’re following Christ, uh,

Josh: Gabe QO one day.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Um, and it’s not the Jesus dismissed the sin.

Jesus embraced the sin, forgave the sin, and then told you to, to flee from the sun. And that’s the same that we should do as followers of Jesus. This ended in a much different place. So Andrew than I expected it to you. Yeah, me too. But I thought, I think it’s great. I think, uh, I hope people listen. Um, I think this is.

This is some powerful stuff. I’m so thank you, Lord Jesus for giving us these words. Thank you, Lord Jesus, that you were in the midst of our lack of planning. If we are 100% transparent and honest in the midst of that, that you are still good and you don’t know, this is listeners, you know, we do beg Jesus.

Um, as we start this thing to be in the midst of this thing, cause we genuinely want to help, uh, we generally want. People to find hope again, that’s, that’s only found that we believe in Jesus. Um, we genuinely want to see people’s lives transformed and changed by the gospel, whether it’s for the first time or for the thousands of time.

And we believe the gospel is still moving and changing our lives and our hearts. Absolutely. Um, so, Hey, thank you so much for listening. If you haven’t subscribed to us, please do. Yup.

Andrew: Um,

Josh: Andrew, any last

Andrew: words? Yeah, just. No, not any crazy last words, but, um, thanks for listening if you did. And Josh, thanks for the good conversation, man.

I’m excited where this ended. Uh, even though we didn’t plan super well for it, but I think it, I think it honored God and I hope it helps people. So, yeah,

Josh: man. Hey, we love you guys. We are praying for you guys.